No swaybar, 90/10 shocks, beefy control arms in the back, bald BFGoodrich Drag Radial's.
Just a guess, though.
Don't forget a manual transmission so you can launch at 5000RPM! LOL You will probably also need to beef up your 7.5 rear also... If you have an automatic you'll want a high stall TC...
Now let's say we nabbed one of these turbochargers... I know my V6 loves to slide (no TCS), I hit a wide radius going 60mph I can hear my tires screeching. I used to blame it on my new slippery tires, but after 6-7months, I'm still not gripping the road. I know adding a turbocharger will only make this worse, I'll probably never stay on the road! Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining at all. I love sliding around... one of the joys of driving my stang.
What can one do to remedy this problem? I'm afraid the increase in horsepower and torque will turn my fun slip-n-slide ride into a fatal one. Am I exaggerating?
What kind of tires are you running? And yes the V6's suspension does leave a bit to be desired when it comes to cornering and handling... LOL
Don't forget a manual transmission so you can launch at 5000RPM! LOL You will probably also need to beef up your 7.5 rear also... If you have an automatic you'll want a high stall TC...
Yeah - didn't catch that; "The above photo is a shot of a launch at NMRA Bowling Green KY, 9psi intercooled, 3.55 gear." I don't think 3:55's are available for the 7.5", although maybe that's a typo.
Don't forget a manual transmission so you can launch at 5000RPM! LOL You will probably also need to beef up your 7.5 rear also... If you have an automatic you'll want a high stall TC...
Yeah - didn't catch that; "The above photo is a shot of a launch at NMRA Bowling Green KY, 9psi intercooled, 3.55 gear." I don't think 3:55's are available for the 7.5", although maybe that's a typo.
He switched to an 8.8 when he broke the 7.5 with a 150 shot of nitrous.
_____________________________
Best track time: 13.5@100MPH (100 shot) 271RWHP and 349RWTQ (100 shot)
Could you post or e-mail me some dyno sheets running 7psi, 9psi & 11.5psi so I can look at the them.
Could you post a PDF file or e-mail me one on the installation instructions of your turbo?
What maintenance would be needed while running your turbo?
I have researched on the 4.0 I know about the jackshafts and chains but because your turbo I believe makes peak power under 5300RPM that is a plus for them, but my question is the pistons/head gaskets.
Is it safe to run at 9psi without changing pistons or head gasket?
Is it safe to run 11.5 psi without changing the piston’s or head gasket?
I assuming the reason for no intercooler for 7psi is because it really does not need it or increase HP by much is this correct?
How much HP & TQ will you gain by adding (I am assuming not much) a intercooler when running 7 PSI
Is it a 2 core or 3 core intercooler?
Is there any difference when running your turbo at 9psi vs. running 9 psi from roots,centrifugal supercharger concerning the pistons or bottom end of the engine?
Mike I take it running 331 or 355 gears with your turbo would be better vs. 373 or 410's, for lower ET times is this correct?
I will have some dyno results in a postable format soon, I could pop up the 12 psi with 104 octane if you like, but it does not have alot of data.
The instructions have yet to be written, that is one of the things that needs to be done in the next few weeks.
Typical maintainence is required, I would reccomend the use of synthetic oil, with typical oil change intervals.
The 9 psi can be run without a change to the pistons or headgaskets.
The 11.5 PSI is reccomended to have a custom tune for your car.
The charge air temps at 7 psi is not very high, and it is intended to be a "entry level" system and can make a bit more power with the addition of the intercooler (~12rwhp), but 9psi is easliy handled with the intercooler.
I never completely understood the 2 or 3 core intercooler concept (I think it comes from the time of welding mutiple i/c cores together to make one), they are not built like radiators which actually have 2,3 or 4 core rows. But is a comparably sized core to what ProCharger refers to as a 3 CORE. It is a highly efficient bar and plate design, with minimal pressure loss and the highest heat tranfer possible. These cores are built here in the US, and are top notch.
There is a difference between 9PSI s/c'd and 9PSI t/c'd, especially as the bottom end is concerned, but I think your concern is more with power levels. And by that I mean netted rear wheel power. The short block has a tolerence of power, and detonation. The more power the engine makes (not netted) the less knock tolerant it will become.
You will net more power (all things equal) pound for pound with a Turbo simply because the turbo takes less power to operate than a s/c, netting that difference at the rear wheels. Some hi boost s/c will consume as much as 50hp to run. A top fuel engine takes in excess of 300hp to run it's s/c.
It is tough to explain, but this is something that an old timer told me that sums it up very well. "Saying a turbo or supercharger makes boost is like saying a dairy farm makes cow dung" Not those exact words but you get the idea.
Boost is a byproduct of FLOW, the more resistant an engine is to accepting a VOLUME of air (created by the turbo or s/c) creates more boost.
And yes a 3.31 or 3.55 is a perfect gear for the 4.0 turbo combo when utilizing the stock cams.
I think that I got everything.
< Message edited by Mike@PowerHouse -- 1/13/2006 6:42:17 PM >
The above photo is a shot of a launch at NMRA Bowling Green KY, 9psi intercooled, 3.55 gear. On this pass the car went 12.50@111. The car is full ~ 3600lbs with driver. The same combo above with 11.5 psi went 11.81@117 At Milan MI.
So your saying, aside from my bad driving, we should be getting 12sec runs with just this turbo and some gears? Nothing else you have done to your test car?
We had our replacement trailing arms on it as well, stock shocks all the way around, and the addition of a v8 rear sway bar as well as the 8.8, running a set of M/T drag radials. I think that a properly built 7.5 will take the abuse though. We have never had a ring gera failurre with the 7.5, only diff carnage.
I thought that most of you knew that but I see some newwer members here and there. Scrming, Jimp and MSP know this car from the begining. In fact Scrming got to go for a spin the weekend we were up in MI.
I will have some dyno results in a postable format soon, I could pop up the 12 psi with 104 octane if you like, but it does not have alot of data.
The instructions have yet to be written, that is one of the things that needs to be done in the next few weeks.
Typical maintainence is required, I would reccomend the use of synthetic oil, with typical oil change intervals.
The 9 psi can be run without a change to the pistons or headgaskets.
The 11.5 PSI is reccomended to have a custom tune for your car.
The charge air temps at 7 psi is not very high, and it is intended to be a "entry level" system and can make a bit more power with the addition of the intercooler (~12rwhp), but 9psi is easliy handled with the intercooler.
I never completely understood the 2 or 3 core intercooler concept (I think it comes from the time of welding mutiple i/c cores together to make one), they are not built like radiators which actually have 2,3 or 4 core rows. But is a comparably sized core to what ProCharger refers to as a 3 CORE. It is a highly efficient bar and plate design, with minimal pressure loss and the highest heat tranfer possible. These cores are built here in the US, and are top notch.
There is a difference between 9PSI s/c'd and 9PSI t/c'd, especially as the bottom end is concerned, but I think your concern is more with power levels. And by that I mean netted rear wheel power. The short block has a tolerence of power, and detonation. The more power the engine makes (not netted) the less knock tolerant it will become.
You will net more power (all things equal) pound for pound with a Turbo simply because the turbo takes less power to operate than a s/c, netting that difference at the rear wheels. Some hi boost s/c will consume as much as 50hp to run. A top fuel engine takes in excess of 300hp to run it's s/c.
It is tough to explain, but this is something that an old timer told me that sums it up very well. "Saying a turbo or supercharger makes boost is like saying a dairy farm makes cow dung" Not those exact words but you get the idea.
Boost is a byproduct of FLOW, the more resistant an engine is to accepting a VOLUME of air (created by the turbo or s/c) creates more boost.
And yes a 3.31 or 3.55 is a perfect gear for the 4.0 turbo combo when utilizing the stock cams.
I think that I got everything.
Mike I want to thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, it is important to me when making my decsion on what system to go with for my car.
quote:
There is a difference between 9PSI s/c'd and 9PSI t/c'd, especially as the bottom end is concerned, but I think your concern is more with power levels. And by that I mean netted rear wheel power.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear but thanks for that information, what I wanted to know is a turbo running at 9psi and S/C running at 9psi putting the same amount of pressure/stressing the piston's , rod's, bearings etc ?
quote:
And yes a 3.31 or 3.55 is a perfect gear for the 4.0 turbo combo when utilizing the stock cams.
Yes but would the car with 3.31 or 3.55 gears at 9psi run a lower ET than with 373 or 4.10 gears with your turbo?
The reason I ask the above question is 373's or 410's on a NA engine will run a lower ET. I am questioning this because when you changed gears you went to a 3.55 and not a 3.73 or 4.10.
The only other reason I can think of is why you might of went to a 355 and not 373's or 410's 1. you wanted to keep the RPM's down on the motor so it put's less pressure on the stock bottom end of the engine internals or 2. you wanted to stay close in the 8.8 to the 3.31 gear that came stock in the 7.5 in the V6 from the factory
Mike could you explain the first part in this "There is a difference between 9PSI s/c'd and 9PSI t/c'd especially as the bottom end is concerned" sentence quoted below
quote:
There is a difference between 9PSI s/c'd and 9PSI t/c'd, especially as the bottom end is concerned, but I think your concern is more with power levels. And by that I mean netted rear wheel power.
what is this difference .
I really would like to see the dyno sheets and installation instructions. If you could e-mail them to me when you can I look forward to seeing them and would really apprecaite it.
Once again I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to come to this forum and answer our questions.
ORIGINAL: Mike@PowerHouse We had our replacement trailing arms on it as well, stock shocks all the way around, and the addition of a v8 rear sway bar as well as the 8.8, running a set of M/T drag radials. I think that a properly built 7.5 will take the abuse though. We have never had a ring gera failurre with the 7.5, only diff carnage.
I thought that most of you knew that but I see some newwer members here and there. Scrming, Jimp and MSP know this car from the begining. In fact Scrming got to go for a spin the weekend we were up in MI.
ORIGINAL: Mike@PowerHouse We had our replacement trailing arms on it as well, stock shocks all the way around, and the addition of a v8 rear sway bar as well as the 8.8, running a set of M/T drag radials. I think that a properly built 7.5 will take the abuse though. We have never had a ring gera failurre with the 7.5, only diff carnage.
I thought that most of you knew that but I see some newwer members here and there. Scrming, Jimp and MSP know this car from the begining. In fact Scrming got to go for a spin the weekend we were up in MI.
ORIGINAL: scrming I'm sorry Jimp... remind me... auto or stick? (keep the smarty pants comments to a minimum please! LOL!)
Do you plan on ever running slicks? DRs?
Auto. I may get drag radials sometime soon. I meant the question for Mike but I welcome any responses. Only thing that worries me now is the axles and driveshaft if I hit it hard, which I probably will!
_____________________________
Best track time: 13.5@100MPH (100 shot) 271RWHP and 349RWTQ (100 shot)
ORIGINAL: scrming I'm sorry Jimp... remind me... auto or stick? (keep the smarty pants comments to a minimum please! LOL!)
Do you plan on ever running slicks? DRs?
Auto. I may get drag radials sometime soon. I meant the question for Mike but I welcome any responses. Only thing that worries me now is the axles and driveshaft if I hit it hard, which I probably will!
Well, not one to be shy I thought I'ld chime in! LOL!
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
Well, not one to be shy I thought I'ld chime in! LOL!
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
Also chiming in.
Just my opinion I agree with everything you said above but one thing 5k???
I know I won't be and I doubt many other people will be launching at 5000 RPM!!! :) esp on the street I will launch maybe around 3-3.5K I wouldn't launch even at the track at 5000 RPM on this stock drive train I could see maybe some serious racers launching at 5K but thats it.
Well, not one to be shy I thought I'ld chime in! LOL!
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
Also chiming in.
Just my opinion I agree with everything you said above but one thing 5k???
I know I won't be and I doubt many other people will be launching at 5000 RPM!!! :) esp on the street I will launch maybe around 3-3.5K I wouldn't launch even at the track at 5000 RPM on this stock drive train I could see maybe some serious racers launching at 5K but thats it.
5000 was just an example... I have no idea what Mike and Paul launch at... bottom line is with our stock TC and wimpy brakes and gear changes us automatics are going to launching at probably less then 2000RPMs...
5000 was just an example... I have no idea what Mike and Paul launch at... bottom line is with our stock TC and wimpy brakes and gear changes us automatics are going to launching at probably less then 2000RPMs...
Yea I just see you throw out that 5K it kills me had to respond , I could see Mike or Paul but they are like serious/pro racers and doing R&D, the rest of us who do a little street and track will be lauching at 3k-3.5k on a stock drive train in this 6 and that should work well.
If I were you guys with the auto and want a little more I would program your tranny and pick up a nice stall converter would make a sweet addition to your setup.
I'll try to address everyones concerns here, if I miss something let me know.
Auto's will be less harsh on the drivetran ( t-brakes are an exception), and yes it is because there is less shock or impact from the trans back.
A loose converter, something around 3000 stall, would be a sweet setup with the turbo. That would allow you to powerbrake the car at the starting line and build boost (maybe 5-7 psi) before you even leave the line. That would make a wicked launch, and with tires could set you up for a low 1.6 60ft.
The reason for a low gear is simple, the combo makes huge torque, you use this torque to propel the car down the track, early shifts help keep the motor in the "sweet spot" around peak torque and cruise through the traps around the peak power. In n/a form the motor needed the mechanical advantage of the steeper gear to get the car moving, and to get it down the track. When we were running the n2o, we should have run a little less gear like a 3.73 or 3.55 but we chose to leave the 4.10 in the car then, did it make it quicker, I do not think so. Our car has yet to 60 ft like I would like it to, we are working on a clutch combo as well as a few other things that should help .
Bottom end strength should be looked at in terms of HP not psi (as hp can change at the same psi by dictating cylinder pressure via ignition timing), The higher the cylinder pressure the higher the risk of damage, the higher the rpm the higher the risk of damage, now combine the two and youve greatly increased that risk. This may be a bit exagerated but I am just triyng to clarify some of the factors.
The 4.0 has a decent (not exceptional) crank and rod combo, it should hold up fairly well, the pistons are a bit of a concern as they are probably the weakest link.
We feel that the 9 and 7 psi combos are a good safe combo that will provide a good time for all, and help the motor live a long happy life, the 11.5 psi is somthing that can be run on pump gas and would reccomend a custom tune, as power increases the margin of error begins to deminish, and it should be spot on.
I hope that I got to answer everyones concerns, if you need anything else feel free to give me a shout.
Mike... I just gotta say... I love this level of customer service... addressing all of these concerns. I wish more venders had this kind great outlook and enthusiasm.
I've been toying with the idea of a new TC for a while now... but to be honest I'm concerned about being able to hold the car back.. with the 4.10s and stock brakes I can barely hold the car back at 1800 RPM... LOL! Also this is a daily driver... how would this affect my day to day driving?
ORIGINAL: scrming I'm sorry Jimp... remind me... auto or stick? (keep the smarty pants comments to a minimum please! LOL!)
Do you plan on ever running slicks? DRs?
Auto. I may get drag radials sometime soon. I meant the question for Mike but I welcome any responses. Only thing that worries me now is the axles and driveshaft if I hit it hard, which I probably will!
Well, not one to be shy I thought I'ld chime in! LOL!
I've had some long discusions about this very thing with a couple of guys in the know... The feeling is that an automatic is a lot less harsh on the rear end... Couple of things that were pointed out to me...
1) An automatic tranny will absorb a lot of the shock... My guess here is because you have a fluid coupling in the TC, not a hard solid coupling like in a manual.... I could be wrong but I was told that the auto does absorb some of the shock what ever the reason...
2) With an automatic you preload the drivetrain... this also helps to reduce the shock...
3) With the stock Torque Convertor you'll be launching at 2000 RPM or less... not 5000RPM..
So based on those things the people I've talked to think the 7.5 should hold up reasonably well... But of course I'm still a little leary...
So John, based on this, we should still be ok with our 4.10s (cause we are autos), based on Mikes reasoning that he uses 3.3/3.55's to keep the power at the lower rpms? Thoughts?
< Message edited by rygenstormlocke -- 1/14/2006 9:33:30 AM >
_____________________________
Best 1/4: 10.97@122.09, 1.56 60ft w/4.0 V6 Best 1/4: 11.67@115.45, 1.64 60ft w/5.4 3V Best 1/8: 7.401@92.77, 1.65 60ft w/5.4 3V www.rygen.net/stang
Mike... I just gotta say... I love this level of customer service... addressing all of these concerns. I wish more venders had this kind great outlook and enthusiasm.
I have to agree with this. It's been a while since you posted, but when you do Mike, it is always very informative. Thank you.
_____________________________
Best 1/4: 10.97@122.09, 1.56 60ft w/4.0 V6 Best 1/4: 11.67@115.45, 1.64 60ft w/5.4 3V Best 1/8: 7.401@92.77, 1.65 60ft w/5.4 3V www.rygen.net/stang
Printable Version
RE: Powerhouse Turbocharger! - 
Are my 3.73s too much? Do you recommend getting work done on the internals for 11.5PSI?
