Posts: 7155
Joined: 4/27/2004 From: I live in Canada, eh Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: OnyxCobra
wouldnt it make more sense to generalize the car by engine type than body style? like 5.0s like "higher" gears where as the 4.6s like lower ones?
The 5.0 cars do not necessarily "like" higher gears (numerically lower), they just came with different gearing in the trans so the gears have a different effect on them.
Some people will say that the 4.6 likes to rev so the lower gears (numerically higher) were more suited to them but until Ford put 4 valve and then the 3 valve heads on them, the 4.6 engines did not like to rev at all. Even with the PI heads, cams and intake, the 2 valve STILL falls flat on it's face after 5,500 RPM.
Posts: 6960
Joined: 11/27/2005 From: Chicago - in Rochester, NY Status: offline
right, but a car with a weak top end wont be very good with a low gear. my buddy had 4.10s in his 03GT and it struggled bad top of 3rd and 4th gear... i think it woulda been faster with 3.73s
Some people will say that the 4.6 likes to rev so the lower gears (numerically higher) were more suited to them but until Ford put 4 valve and then the 3 valve heads on them, the 4.6 engines did not like to rev at all. Even with the PI heads, cams and intake, the 2 valve STILL falls flat on it's face after 5,500 RPM.
i thought the point of gears was partially to rev quicker, but also to multiply tourque?
thats why a tourqe happy 5.0 likes 3.73's better than a higher (in the rpm range) 4.6?
or is that completely out the window here?
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Posts: 7155
Joined: 4/27/2004 From: I live in Canada, eh Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: OnyxCobra
right, but a car with a weak top end wont be very good with a low gear. my buddy had 4.10s in his 03GT and it struggled bad top of 3rd and 4th gear... i think it woulda been faster with 3.73s
nah, you still have to shift at the same point so you may as well multiply the torque as much as possible before you get there which means using higher gears.
The reason most of us pick the 4.10s for the 99+ V8 manual cars is that you can still add some HP to them and you will just about use all of fourth gear in the quarter mile.....fifth is useless anyway and if you still have RPM and power left in fourth, you are probably giving up some time. 4.30s are about the same in those cars but if you have HP, you will run out of gear.
For the mostpart, 3.73s will have about the same effect on a 5.0 and 4.30s will have a similar effect on the 3 valve.....on manual trans equipped cars.
Gears are a personal thing unless you are really concerned with squeezing every last tenth out of your quarter mile times, then it pretty much comes down to math.
I had 4.10s in my 5 speed '03 GT and it was a pain in the ass shifting all the time and cruising on the highway @ 3K. You can forget about racing anyone on the highway as well because you run out of fourth at just over 100 mph and like I said, fifth is useless anyway except as an overdrive. The thing is that 3.73s will only buy you another 200 RPM which is what, maybe 5-10 mph in fourth. Why bother? You may as well go 4.10 and get the most out of your car. Same with 4.30s. There is very little difference between them and 4.10s.
Let's leave it like this for those who don't know......3.73s will add about 400 RPM at any given speed on a 5 speed 99+ PI GT. 4.10s will add about 600 RPM.
Posts: 6960
Joined: 11/27/2005 From: Chicago - in Rochester, NY Status: offline
you shift at the same RPM, but with a higher gear you'll get to be in each gear longer, which could be benefitial. If u rev through each gear fast then ur stuck in the ****ty gears to pull u through the end of the 1/4, hence the lower trap speeds. And tq isnt all that pulls ur car through the end of a 1/4, id rather have a car that pulled great the whole run than one that was amazing off the line and ****ted out up towards the end.
I dont know about anyone else here, but I just like it when my car pulls. Dont get me wrong, its nice to have a number, but it's not about having the fastest car, or beating other people. It's about feeling, not thinking. I dont need to go 150 to have a good time, I'm happy punching it to 80 then letting it wind down to 60 and just cruise.
Posts: 11994
Joined: 12/22/2004 From: Ludlow, Mass Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: MikeHawke
quote:
ORIGINAL: OnyxCobra
right, but a car with a weak top end wont be very good with a low gear. my buddy had 4.10s in his 03GT and it struggled bad top of 3rd and 4th gear... i think it woulda been faster with 3.73s
nah, you still have to shift at the same point so you may as well multiply the torque as much as possible before you get there which means using higher gears.
The reason most of us pick the 4.10s for the 99+ V8 manual cars is that you can still add some HP to them and you will just about use all of fourth gear in the quarter mile.....fifth is useless anyway and if you still have RPM and power left in fourth, you are probably giving up some time. 4.30s are about the same in those cars but if you have HP, you will run out of gear.
For the mostpart, 3.73s will have about the same effect on a 5.0 and 4.30s will have a similar effect on the 3 valve.....on manual trans equipped cars.
Gears are a personal thing unless you are really concerned with squeezing every last tenth out of your quarter mile times, then it pretty much comes down to math.
I had 4.10s in my 5 speed '03 GT and it was a pain in the ass shifting all the time and cruising on the highway @ 3K. You can forget about racing anyone on the highway as well because you run out of fourth at just over 100 mph and like I said, fifth is useless anyway except as an overdrive. The thing is that 3.73s will only buy you another 200 RPM which is what, maybe 5-10 mph in fourth. Why bother? You may as well go 4.10 and get the most out of your car. Same with 4.30s. There is very little difference between them and 4.10s.
Let's leave it like this for those who don't know......3.73s will add about 400 RPM at any given speed on a 5 speed 99+ PI GT. 4.10s will add about 600 RPM.
I dont have gears yet, but im gettin 4.10s, and a friends auto has 4.10s in a GT and when it went into O/D it still had the power to use that gear now, so i guess if we were to keep goin that he would have a higher top end?
so what you guys r saying, is if we topped out with the the 3.73 gears and topped out with the 4.10 gears, your saying the 4.10 gears wouldn't reach as high of a speed?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_Drunken_Llama
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so what you guys r saying, is if we topped out with the the 3.73 gears and topped out with the 4.10 gears, your saying the 4.10 gears wouldn't reach as high of a speed?
in theory this is how it woudl work, but since our cars dont have the power/drag efficient to max out the 5th gear, i dont THINK we have to worry about that
i coudl be wrong though
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what about an auto v6 in top speed? If I still had the speed and rev limiter I wouldnt be able to just use 3rd gear to go faster than in o/d?I would probably barely get 100 in 3rd gear then with the 4.10s?...in theory..? Asking because I travel about 30 miles highway each way about 3 or 4 times a week and its very clear road,no hi-po so I was just wondering about the gears and how theyd affect my top speed
Also whats the fastest ur supposed to go on donuts?
< Message edited by p0rsche23 -- 12/7/2005 3:41:33 PM >
I have an 99 GT auto, so will 4.10's benefit me in anyway or should I not even worry about getting them? I also will get a predator tuner and I have a shift kit if that would make a difference.
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99 GT (AUTO) UD pullies, shift kit, Super 40's, 75mm TB, Plenum, Diablo Tuner, K&N FIPK, 4.10's
so what you guys r saying, is if we topped out with the the 3.73 gears and topped out with the 4.10 gears, your saying the 4.10 gears wouldn't reach as high of a speed?
Exactly. But how often do you go over 120 or so anyway? Never. You're losing speed in an area that you don't even use it. Even then, it's not going to be a dramatic loss of speed.
I have an 99 GT auto, so will 4.10's benefit me in anyway or should I not even worry about getting them? I also will get a predator tuner and I have a shift kit if that would make a difference.
Posts: 11994
Joined: 12/22/2004 From: Ludlow, Mass Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: p0rsche23
what about an auto v6 in top speed? If I still had the speed and rev limiter I wouldnt be able to just use 3rd gear to go faster than in o/d?I would probably barely get 100 in 3rd gear then with the 4.10s?...in theory..? Asking because I travel about 30 miles highway each way about 3 or 4 times a week and its very clear road,no hi-po so I was just wondering about the gears and how theyd affect my top speed
Also whats the fastest ur supposed to go on donuts?
no faster then 55 or 65 on donuts, it depends
4.10s will actually increase your top end because with our 3.27s and your 2.73 gears, there is not enough HP to over come the drag, 4.10s will get you into the power band and go faster and be able to over come the drag.
No, no one is confusing top end it top speed. The point is with the overdrive in the tranny, the car will top out at the same speed because the engine either doesnt have the power to rev out the overdrive gear, or that it is electronically limited anyway. They will, in theory take away top speed, for instance in my car, that can reach the highest rpm in the highest gear. It will not decrease top end either, it should make the wheels spin faster throughout the whole rpm range.
No, no one is confusing top end it top speed. The point is with the overdrive in the tranny, the car will top out at the same speed because the engine either doesnt have the power to rev out the overdrive gear, or that it is electronically limited anyway. They will, in theory take away top speed, for instance in my car, that can reach the highest rpm in the highest gear. It will not decrease top end either, it should make the wheels spin faster throughout the whole rpm range.
Yes I believe some people use those two terms interchangably around here.
Posts: 6960
Joined: 11/27/2005 From: Chicago - in Rochester, NY Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: pj1010
quote:
ORIGINAL: downwardspiral
No, no one is confusing top end it top speed. The point is with the overdrive in the tranny, the car will top out at the same speed because the engine either doesnt have the power to rev out the overdrive gear, or that it is electronically limited anyway. They will, in theory take away top speed, for instance in my car, that can reach the highest rpm in the highest gear. It will not decrease top end either, it should make the wheels spin faster throughout the whole rpm range.
Yes I believe some people use those two terms interchangably around here.
yeah they do, i mentioned top end once and someone was immediately like, "omg who cares about how fast a car will go" ur def. right PJ
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