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Joined: 1/18/2004 From: United States Status: offline
By the way, idk why it blanked out **X****...and most of my info came from truck trend in case you didnt believe me and my dad drives a 2000 powerstroke and has 120k miles on it and its stilll runnin strong (yes, i know diesels are supposed to last like 300k+ miles)
Posts: 2392
Joined: 12/13/2003 From: Rochester, NY Status: offline
[QUOTE=Jugador]
but i do wonder how mk can be a ford guy and have never owned one...
[/QUOTE]
i dont, i have loved ford since i got into cars. the first car that i will own will be a stang. why cant i be a ford guy even though i dont even have my liscense yet?? F*CK YOU!!!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=mkspeed26][QUOTE=Jugador]
but i do wonder how mk can be a ford guy and have never owned one...
[/QUOTE]
i dont, i have loved ford since i got into cars. the first car that i will own will be a stang. why cant i be a ford guy even though i dont even have my liscense yet?? F*CK YOU!!!
[/QUOTE]
At least you are heading in the right direction! It's nice to see someone young not being drawn into the "Fast & Delirious (ooops, i meant Furious) Syndrom". Congrats to ya bud, and drive safe!
OK... this next rant is coming from someone who has owned more than just one of all 3 Domestic brands, and is biased only because of my own personal experiences, and also my friends and family's experiences:
Ya know, when you think about it, Ford almost ALWAYS leads the way! Let's see.... the Viper was derived from the Shelby Cobra.... Ford comes out with the 3rd gen. 5.0 and Chevy has to pull the 305 and replace it with the 350 to keep up....Ford gets into the sport compact scene with the Focus, now Dodge brings out the SRT-4.... Ford makes the Lightning and patents the "Supercooler", now Dodge puts the Viper motor in their trucks to compete (no technological marvel there!) and GM makes a very lame attempt with the SS.... GM kills the Firebird and Camaro because there is lack of sales due to NO "bang for the buck"and calls it a "marketing ploy" to cover their embarrassment, and is going to bring the GTO back (and call it a "muscle car" even though it looks like a friggin Malibu or something) with the vette motor in it (nothing special there either).... the 03 Cobra comes out and it's not even really in the same class as the Vette, but GM is definitely nervous about it, and has to squeeze more horses out of the Vette to stay faster than the stock 03, cause right now, the Cobra runs right beside it for alot less money (which the 03 only takes a few mods and stomps the Vette a new A-hole for considerably less change even after mods.... and last but not least, the Ford GT is Americas first "exotic" for the Big-3 (only after the Saleen S7 which is also a what?...Ford?) and now GM once again sais "uh oh, now we have to build something faster than that too", and now the "Supervette" is going to be built!
Does any of you GM and Dodge guys out there see the pattern???? Maybe your "loyalty" has you blinded to it! The fact that every time Ford develops a new vehicle that smokes the competition, or new technology, or delve into new territory like sport compact, GM and Dodge get scared and become like little kids lagging behind, tugging on Ford's shirt-tales saying "oh yeah, well, well, you just wait and see....we're gonna build one faster than yours.... we just wanted you to make it first so we could learn how to do it, then improve on it!" Think about it!!! ANY company can do that, it's EASY! It's been this way for what seems like forever too!
Now, you go keep believing that GM or Dodge is better, and you'll never relize the truth. Instead, try have an open mind about Ford and take a closer, deeper look into things, and maybe, just maybe you'll see the truth too!
[/QUOTE]
No, you're not biased at all. For one, the 305 ran with the 5.0 stock for stock. The 350 came in GM in 1987. In '88 the Firebird actually had a 3.8 turbo that can still outrun the new 4.6's much less the 5.0's. The 4.6 has still yet to catch the LT1, much less the LS1. It's not GM's fault more girls like the Mustang, which is its primary driver. The Cobra was aimed at the Z06 and falls short of the C5. The Ford GT was slower than lots of Mopars back in the day. The Ford GT is still gonna be slower than the new Z06. I'm sure that GM wanted to squeeze more horses out soley to demolish the Cobra....considering the Vette has steadily increased in performance since it's debut some 50 years ago.
Please have facts if you're going to argue....95LT138014.5199768519
I cant belive what im seeing!G.M is about as cheap as you get!Those cars are built with one thing in mind and it shows!
Years ago I was junkyard shopping for a Ford p/u brake drum. They were expensive and hard to get. The yard's explanation was that all the Fords come in with 100-200k miles, so the drums are shot, while the GM trucks get junked at 50-70k miles, so there are more useful parts.
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[/QUOTE]
No, you're not biased at all. For one, the 305 ran with the 5.0 stock for stock. The 350 came in GM in 1987. In '88 the Firebird actually had a 3.8 turbo that can still outrun the new 4.6's much less the 5.0's. The 4.6 has still yet to catch the LT1, much less the LS1. It's not GM's fault more girls like the Mustang, which is its primary driver. The Cobra was aimed at the Z06 and falls short of the C5. The Ford GT was slower than lots of Mopars back in the day. The Ford GT is still gonna be slower than the new Z06. I'm sure that GM wanted to squeeze more horses out soley to demolish the Cobra....considering the Vette has steadily increased in performance since it's debut some 50 years ago.
Please have facts if you're going to argue....[/QUOTE]
Oh, trust me all my facts are just that...FACTS! You can make up all the excuses you want, but they are all just that...excuses in defense of your beloved GM's!
Let's go down the list, shall we??? One, the 305 ran close, but was not faster or better than the 5.0, period. Two, the 350 came in the special edition stuff in 1987, like the IROC. It did NOT come in the base models such as the RS, etc.. Three, you mean to tell me that a 3.8 V-6 TURBO can outrun a naturally aspirated 5.0 or 4.6??? OMG whoda thunk it! No s**t sherlock! Put a Turbo on a 3.8 Mustang and watch your mighty camaro get toasted...ooops! i forgot there is no more camaro or firebird, my bad! And let's see... 350 CID vs 281 CID? I would hope so! God knows the 305 couldn't handle the job! Now what about that aftermarket? Enough said. Four, so your sexist now ay? I know quite a few girls that drive that girly Mustang car, and would hand your ass to you on a platter, no matter what you drive. Five, the Cobra was never aimed at the Z06, if it would've been, Ford would've built it that it would cost about the same. Even if it was, it still puts out more HP, but weighs approx. 550 lbs. more! If you know anything about drag racing, that = about .55 seconds reduction due to weight alone, that's the ONLY reason the Z06 is faster in the 1/4, cause it's a fiberglass couffin. Here's a link as proof: http://www.dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=28 Six, Ford also had more powerful cars than the Ford GT "back in the day"... your point? That was then, this is now, welcome to 2004! Again, the new Z06 will be faster because now they have a benchmark to go off of... the FORD GT! Seven, you're "sure" (you must be the manager of GM's performance devision!) that's the reason they are squeezing more out of the Z06? No my friend, it's because it looks REALLY bad to have a car that costs so much be humiliated by a car (Cobra) that costs so much less, and only needs about $1000 - $2000 on top of the base price (only due to weight) to do it. Which even then is STILL alot less than the base $ of the Vette, they gotta up the ante somehow! Eight, the Vette has not steadily increased the performance of the Vette since the beginning. They have been up and down all through it's history.Do some homework... become informed!
Trust me, i have the facts, and i am very ready to argue this any day!
Posts: 2392
Joined: 12/13/2003 From: Rochester, NY Status: offline
i love that the ford gt came out. WHAT NOW ANTIFORD BYOCHES!!!! WE CAN HANDLE EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT US!!!! (besides the enzo, which costs mulit million)
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=mkspeed26] i love that the ford gt came out. WHAT NOW ANTIFORD BYOCHES!!!! WE CAN HANDLE EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT US!!!! (besides the enzo, which costs mulit million)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Enzo is faster right now, but think about this.....the Ford GT has the lightning motor in it....see what i'm getting at? Yep, i'm sure all the aftermarket goodies that can be done to the Lightning will be able to be done to the GT!! 600 HP "Supervette" or Enzo? NOOO SWEAT!!
Posts: 2392
Joined: 12/13/2003 From: Rochester, NY Status: offline
[QUOTE=shacar87]
I'll say it again... GOD i love Ford!
[/QUOTE]
yea, and look at the price. you can buy 7 ford gts for the price of one enzo. plus, it doesnt cost a grand to change the oil!!! it is exactly what ford needed. it will be the hottest american car in years!!!
uh...3.8 turbo stang will not outrun any 93+ Camaro. You then say that 4.6 and 5.0 are all and mighty to the GM, then you say that since the GM's engine is bigger thats why the Stang looses? How do you know some girls that can outrun me no matter what I drive. What if I have a top fuel dragster in the garage, oh wait, since my dragster isn't Ford it will loose. Bottom line:
4 bangers supercharge things to keep up with v8's.....Ford supercharge things to keep up with GM.
[QUOTE=shacar87] [QUOTE=mkspeed26] i love that the ford gt came out. WHAT NOW ANTIFORD BYOCHES!!!! WE CAN HANDLE EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT US!!!! (besides the enzo, which costs mulit million)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Enzo is faster right now, but think about this.....the Ford GT has the lightning motor in it....see what i'm getting at? Yep, i'm sure all the aftermarket goodies that can be done to the Lightning will be able to be done to the GT!! 600 HP "Supervette" or Enzo? NOOO SWEAT!!
I'll say it again... GOD i love Ford![/QUOTE]
The GT is gonna already come with the highest performance stuff, including a S/C'er....
95LT138016.7816435185
Posts: 2392
Joined: 12/13/2003 From: Rochester, NY Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1]
The GT is gonna already come with the highest performance stuff, including a S/C'er....
[/QUOTE]
more boost anyone?? but i know what you mean, it is like trying to get more power into a ferrari. it is so expensive that anyone who can get one is most likely some rich bastard that wont do anything to it and it will probably sit in the garage most of its life . wish i had 150k so i could give it proper treating!!!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1] uh...3.8 turbo stang will not outrun any 93+ Camaro. You then say that 4.6 and 5.0 are all and mighty to the GM, then you say that since the GM's engine is bigger thats why the Stang looses? How do you know some girls that can outrun me no matter what I drive. What if I have a top fuel dragster in the garage, oh wait, since my dragster isn't Ford it will loose. Bottom line:
4 bangers supercharge things to keep up with v8's.....Ford supercharge things to keep up with GM.[/QUOTE]
Riiiigggghhhhhttttt! No, the reason Ford supercharges things like the Cobra, is because of how easy it is to mod a supercharged engine. You see, Ford built the Cobra so people could go out and actually afford to mod them, and race them, and not just be bought to be a "garage queen" as the majority of Vettes are, and think about it, the majority of Vette owners are older people!
So you bring up the classic argument of.... "well Ford had to supercharge it to compete!" Again, ease of modding, better drivability than heads, cam, intake setup, and price....you can go get a supercharger for your beloved Vette, but what would that total price be compared to the Cobra with one already installed??? Ford believes in more "bang for the buck" and they know that real motor heads like to build their own rides up no matter what they start with, so why put something out there that is just about maxed out, or costs an arm & a leg to mod? Most people don't want that, they want to build their own, thus the biggest aftermarket, and popularity of the Mustang over the Camaro / Firebird....they had a bigger motor, thus faster stock, and overpriced, and where are they now? GM has to say they are faster no matter what the cost! Not smart, it should be about balance in all aspects, when will GM learn that? For example, the new GTO. It's justa Camaro SS with a new shell!! It is heavier, doesn't put out the performance #'s, not as unique looking (looks like a Grand Prix), and more expensive than the Camaro and Firebird were...What are they thinking?!?! I mean the main reasons that the C/F were killed for, they are putting right back into the GTO, only more-so! Again, the majority of people out there are going to go for a balance of all aspects, not just "hey, i spent alot more money, but i can go a little faster"!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1] [QUOTE=shacar87] [QUOTE=mkspeed26] i love that the ford gt came out. WHAT NOW ANTIFORD BYOCHES!!!! WE CAN HANDLE EVERYTHING YOU THROW AT US!!!! (besides the enzo, which costs mulit million)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Enzo is faster right now, but think about this.....the Ford GT has the lightning motor in it....see what i'm getting at? Yep, i'm sure all the aftermarket goodies that can be done to the Lightning will be able to be done to the GT!! 600 HP "Supervette" or Enzo? NOOO SWEAT!!
I'll say it again... GOD i love Ford![/QUOTE]
The GT is gonna already come with the highest performance stuff, including a S/C'er....
[/QUOTE]
Uuuhhh, so what your saying is that the GT won't be able to be modded?? Guess you don't know that they are finding out that the 03 Cobra's 4.6 stock bottom end is handling 900 HP RELIABLY! So what would make you think that the 5.4 couldn't be taken higher?? And yes, whether you know it or not, there is PLENTY of aftermarket goodies out for the GT motor already! No, sorry, the GT won't be coming with "the highest performance stuff", I know alot of you GM fans want to believe that, cause i guess that's hard to swallow (i've heard this before from you guys), but you'll see! And don't think that it is just going to be a "garage queen", they are already predicting it to be on the road course cicuits, just like the Saleen S7 that costs about the same! Uh oh Vette and Viper!!!!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1] "Bang for the Buck" S/C'ed '02 Camaro SS OWNS both the '03 Cobra and the new GT....
[/QUOTE]
Yes, you're right, you got us on that one....they were soooo "bang for the buck", that's why they didn't sell worth a s**t, to the extent of the Stang outselling them year after year, even when combining the Camaro and Firebird sales together,and are dead now! My apologies all great and all knowing one.
The F-Body was not designed to appeal to 16-year-old squealing teenage girls who want a cute little car. The F-Body was not designed to haul home your brand new lawnmower from Home Depot. The F-Body was not designed to be as comfortable as a Camry, no; it was not designed like a Mustang. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Mustang. The Mustang owns a heritage that is like no other. It has a backing of its on enthusiasts, and it represents a common bond in more ways than just “RWD V8”. Setting that aside, the Mustang was not designed with performance 100% in mind. Does it perform? Yes, very well at that, but the main goal of the Mustang the past decade has been, “how many can we sell?” IMO, design has been compromised over function. Ford has done something right for business though, they’ve figured out how to appeal to the masses. They accomplished their goal. The way I see it, they accomplished their goal almost as well as GM accomplished theirs. GM’s goal was to build an enthusiasts car, a man’s man performance machine, and they have done so. GM has moved leaps and bounds past the Mustang project the past decade, leaving not only Ford, but everyone else in the dust.
CONGRATULATIONS Ford for appealing to the ladies!!!!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1]The F-Body was not designed to appeal to 16-year-old squealing teenage girls who want a cute little car. The F-Body was not designed to haul home your brand new lawnmower from Home Depot. The F-Body was not designed to be as comfortable as a Camry, no; it was not designed like a Mustang. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Mustang. The Mustang owns a heritage that is like no other. It has a backing of its on enthusiasts, and it represents a common bond in more ways than just “RWD V8”. Setting that aside, the Mustang was not designed with performance 100% in mind. Does it perform? Yes, very well at that, but the main goal of the Mustang the past decade has been, “how many can we sell?” IMO, design has been compromised over function. Ford has done something right for business though, they’ve figured out how to appeal to the masses. They accomplished their goal. The way I see it, they accomplished their goal almost as well as GM accomplished theirs. GM’s goal was to build an enthusiasts car, a man’s man performance machine, and they have done so. GM has moved leaps and bounds past the Mustang project the past decade, leaving not only Ford, but everyone else in the dust.
CONGRATULATIONS Ford for appealing to the ladies!!!![/QUOTE]
You're right, Ford did do it right. It's about balance! Ford doesn't make cars just to say they are faster... they are smarter than that. They make cars with that thing called BALANCE!! ever hear of it? The regular Mustang is well balanced between power, ride comfort, price, etc.. etc.. Then if you want a "man's man" car, you opt for the Cobra, or hell even the lightning! This whole being well BALANCED idea is something that GM obviously never caught on to! Thus the death of the Firebird and Camaro!
You're possibly right about the Mustang not being 100% performance oriented...i guess it was "unfortunately" designed to be happily lived with, and affordable on a daily basis...shame on that Mustang!!
Uummmm, isn't all "good" business about "how many can we sell" and "appealing to the masses"?? Maybe not where you come from......oh, that's right, you're from the GM camp!
Soooo, i guess GM's "goal" was never to successfully continue making the Camaro or Firebird right? If that's the case then i guess it obviously was just..."let's make them faster than the Mustang, but less reliable and have a higher cost of maintenance (don't even try to argue this point, there is s**t-loads of surveys and studies done on a yearly basis to prove this one), not affordable on a daily basis to most people (gas, insurance, etc...), and way overpriced for what you get, but at least it will be a "MAN"S MAN car!!! WOW, that is some smart business if you ask me...whewee! How does Ford ever compete with that!?!?
Yes, you just profound us with your knowledge once again..."GM has moved leaps and bounds past the Mustang project...leaving Ford and everyone else in the dust". They just had to stop making the C/F because they were just DOMINATING THE WORLD, and it wasn't fair to everyone else to have such a worldwide monopoly like that!!! My bad, I apologize!
Oh, and on the..."congratulations for appealing to the ladies", now, now, you don't have to jealous just because the ladies are driving cooler, more popular, bettter cars than yours!! That doesn't mean you have to be a sexist hater!!
MORAL OF THE STORY>............................PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN, IT's FRYING YOUR FRIGGIN BRAIN!!!!!!!!!I can give you numbers to some real good rehab clinics if you want....i've been helping other GM owners this way!!!
Posts: 79
Joined: 1/9/2004 From: United States Status: offline
[QUOTE=95LT1]Most ladies do like it slow and easy...
BTW, if the C/F would have never died for a short period, much like the T-Bird that everyone forgets about, what would be your argument?[/QUOTE]
The t-bird was never meant to be a mainstay performance car or replace the Mustang. It was just to show Ford's heritage, oh great wise one. And let's not play pretend or live in a fantasy world...the C/F are dead...deal with it! And even if they didn't, they would still be getting smoked by the Cobra, and i would still say.... THEY ARE JUNK!!!! Speaking from experience of friends and family!
True, but i'm aweful surprised that you know anything about how the LADIES like it...my money would've been on you knowing lots about the other sex!
Printable Version
mustang or ford - 
. wish i had 150k so i could give it proper treating!!!
