MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: gotboost
actully there was a front page article on Hot Rod magazine an AMERICAN magazine and they did a comparo on a 03 cobra and a 03 sti and the sti won by a 10th of a second so its most likly a drivers race.THe sti being 300hp and the cobra being 390 hp both running low 13's. I know this wasnt the one of the original posts but this is a comment to ZW99GT, when he said a cobra would kill a sti. Im not here to bash ne1, i dont even consider cars import or domestic that is so IGNORANT. I see COOL car and BAD car and RICER and NO RICER! By the way b4 ne1 gives me **** i do like the mustang better but im not ignorant and instead of arguing why dont we just see cobra and the wrx race and see what happens?????????
quote:
ORIGINAL: ZW99GT
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2kstang
Ownd my ass I cursh 5.0s all the time I also beat a 05 gt with no prob UNDER RATED 06....any of u live in PA feel free to shoot me a PM at wrxtuners. Bring ur camera and ur stang....and back all the BS up. Cobra and higher...cost....35 to 40 thousand? And my 28 Thous $ car runs with them. A cobra "NEW" COBRA will hand me my as$ most likely. But im up 4 a run. Anything lower save ur breath.
UNDER RATED trust me very under rated. And if you live in PA feel free to shoot me a mssg and I will let you down easy as you loose to a subaru.
a cobra has an invoice price of $31,097. And what do u drive? WRX? $25,045(easily raped by a GT with the same cost) And if you drive an STI $32,445(easily raped by a 2003/2004 cobra for less money.)
The comparable mustangs and subaru's are basically the same price. If one is higher than the other its the WRX. What a queer. And you say u (cursh) (whatever that means) 5.0's all the time, they have 215hp. WOW your car is a beast. You will not take a stock of GT from a roll.
A new cobra would DEMOLISH any stock subaru EVER! The STI does not even have a chance in ****, so why would u even comment on that. If a car says mustangGT/Cobra on it please save your self the embarassment, and do not race it. Please move to Australia.
the american magazines are the most biased of all by the way, especially compared to all the german and japanese magazines we usually read (that was sarcasm by the way)... ...this has nothing to do with import vs domestic, at least not for me, it's just common sense dude. i go at the track as often as i can in the summertime and although the STIs' are impressive they're not beating the Cobras, i don't care how you slice it or what mag you read that in, in the real world that's just not how it goes down (so far at least)
< Message edited by HC_CrAzYHoRsE -- 12/10/2005 2:25:16 AM >
From the factory, it's a slob. It's inefficient at best. 225 hp from a 5 liter V8. Even by 80s-90s standards that's pathetically low. NA 1.8L Escort engines made 127 hp. 98 hp shy of an engine with more than double the displacement.
i'm done with you, you are hopeless...comparing an escort to a fox ? only 98hp shy ? c'mon man... let go of the hp ratings. look at the overall car and performance ...if you wanna play that game your si is 98 hp short of being of being a lawn mower.
Hey, I'm making fair comparisons between close years and power levels of different sized engines.
I thought that was what this was about? Why are you getting upset because I think that a 5.0's factory ratings were pathetic? Can't handle an opinion that differs or what? You can have your opinion that the fox is so awesome, and I can have mine that 5.0's were weak from the factory. OMG no... don't let the truth be told.
Anyway... back to your original post I quoted;
You tell me to stop comparing hp ratings... yet you're sittin up there comparing MAGAZINE times between two different classes of cars. Magazine times are not the end all be all of what car X will run. They're averages.
To top it off, you give out the times of the WRX, but nothing for a 98 Cobra. Let me do a quick search for you on that one.
1998 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 5.4 14.0 www.car-fax.com. Look up the 2002 Impreza WRX sedan. Holy ****!! 5.4 and 14.1? wow. Let's rely on magazine stats. That's purely a drivers race... there goes your "unbiased" opinion right there.
Seems fairly even to me. I would give either car the win on any random run down the track. It's all up to the driver.
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
your fair comparison sucks ....only 98hp? man that seems like alot to me, and you sorta put aside the fact that it has 170lbs of extra torque. that's what i meant by compare the overall car and performance not just hp ratings.
i'm not getting upset, i just hate never-ending arguments over something when i know i'm right. i can handle opinions very well but this isn't a case of opinions it's facts. why would you say the 5.0 was weak even in it's day when it's still running so strong to this day ? i don't get it.
i compared magazine times because if i just said "this is what i saw at the track" you'd probably calle BS... so i used what you seem to preffer, magazine racing, but i admitt they are usually wrong.
it's great that car fax gave it a 14.1 that's hella fast, i never said they were slow anyway. but the truth is no matter how close they are to a flat 14, the cobra still runs 13s'. those cobra times were taken from the same site that said the 03/04 ran 13.6 and that a 5.0 notch runs 15s'...i suppose you believe that too ? they're about a second faster according to everyone else but you, but hey, you must be right, what do we guys who actually own those cars know anything about, right ?
I don't prefer magazine given times. Very rarely do I go looking for magazine times.
quote:
what do we guys who actually own those cars know anything about, right ?
You don't own a 98 Cobra, and I've still yet to see proof of one in the 13s. No one has obliged my request with a video or a time slip of a stock 98 in the 13s.
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000Si
I don't prefer magazine given times. Very rarely do I go looking for magazine times.
You don't own a 98 Cobra, and I've still yet to see proof of one in the 13s. No one has obliged my request with a video or a time slip of a stock 98 in the 13s.
i hate magazine times too, but admitt if i just came and flat out said "i saw that at the track" you'd call BS.. at least if someone else said it (like a magazine), i may spare myself of looking like a BSer (that's the way i saw it anyway).
i don't own a 98 cobra but i do own a notch and i know first hand they don't run 15s' like that site said it did. and i am part of the montrealmustang club in wich we have regular meets during the summertime at the local track and there are at least a dozen of 96-98 cobra owners that show up to events, so i have seen them run before... man i wish it was summertime, i'd just get my camcorder and film a damn stock cobra. maybe we could continue this argument in about 6 months ? lol in the meantime no i really don't feel like combing the net to satisfy your hunger for proof, sorry. but still i don't get why you can't figure it out for yourself, like i said before 305hp/300tq+3200lb car = how the hell could you not hit 13s'.
Team MF Member #099 Posts: 6836
Joined: 11/1/2004 Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: gotboost
actully there was a front page article on Hot Rod magazine an AMERICAN magazine and they did a comparo on a 03 cobra and a 03 sti and the sti won by a 10th of a second so its most likly a drivers race.THe sti being 300hp and the cobra being 390 hp both running low 13's. I know this wasnt the one of the original posts but this is a comment to ZW99GT, when he said a cobra would kill a sti. Im not here to bash ne1, i dont even consider cars import or domestic that is so IGNORANT. I see COOL car and BAD car and RICER and NO RICER! By the way b4 ne1 gives me **** i do like the mustang better but im not ignorant and instead of arguing why dont we just see cobra and the wrx race and see what happens?????????
Ok gotboost Ill admit i was a little ticked when i wrote that, and i said some things i shouldnt have, but damn that was like 3 months ago. I have since then become more of a Subaru enthusiast(I guess), since my best freind has an STI and my roomate has an 05 WRX. The STI is a great car, but please dont bring up a magazine that said The STI is FASTER. Im sure there are so many that say other wise. Sure it will launch better, but after that its all boosted V8 territory. From a roll, its no question. Cobra all day everyday from a roll.(after the advantage of AWD is gone) ATTENTION!!!!!!!
I have ridden is a bone stock 05 STI as well as a bone stock 03 Cobra. The STI is fast! but I will disagree and say that the cobra is faster. Im not bashing the Subie in any way. I would love to have one. When i rode in the STI, it was launched HARD from stoplight to stoplight! I mean hard. It felt awesome! I dont think it was that much quicker than my GT off the line at the track. (before the flaming starts, my track is ALWAYS well prepped and I cut constant 1.8x's 60ft on Falkens) .I understand that on the Skreets it would be different, but at a decent track, I dont see the cobra at much of a disadvantage in the 60ft.
All in all, they are both great cars, but you have to look at it this way. Subies were NOT made for straight line racing, yet they do it very well. Ill give well deserved props all day long. I apologize if i offended anyone in this thread 3 months ago, but the above post is what i really found out to be personally true and i totally believe that.
< Message edited by ZW99GT -- 12/12/2005 5:19:53 AM >
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If bottles are for babies, why does everyone else cry about it?
Gotboost got it correct, STI's / WRX simply aren't made for straight line racing. In the STI for example, the gearing is set up for rally racing. The 6 speed has really short, torquey gears. If you dropped a PPG dogbox gearset into an STI with straight cut gears, you would likely see its quarter-mile times go down, but I don't think many STI owners choose to go this route because of the overall quality of the stock STI transmission. There are, however, quite a few WRX owners who choose to go this route due to grenading their stock transmissions. These owners usually have heavily modified cars, so the gearsets really make their cars that much more powerful and capable of good straight line performance.
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2007 Acura TL Type S 2001 Lexus IS300 - Gone but not forgotten 2004 2.8L STI - 565 awhp/510 ft lbs on 110 leaded - SOLD!
If anyone has a cobra in the local area/// PITTSBURGH PA /// lets meet up at a local track and post some slips up on this site, to prove it all. I feel confident with my car "cept my launch can use a little work" let me know all
If anyone has a cobra in the local area/// PITTSBURGH PA /// lets meet up at a local track and post some slips up on this site, to prove it all. I feel confident with my car "cept my launch can use a little work" let me know all
Where are you from I live about 30 mins from pittsburgh..
Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of 2000si arguing against Mustangs on a Mustang site?
Is it just me or are half the mustang owners on this board whiney and take brand loyalty just a bit too far?
Besides that, instead of arguing null points why don't you guys (who claim to not give two ****s about imports) go actually research some **** before talking it? It gets really old when the first post from someone is "so how fast is a WRX?" and three posts later they're arguing against it like they know everything about it.
and I've still yet to see a stock 98 hit 13s.
< Message edited by 2000Si -- 12/11/2005 4:16:58 PM >
People tell me a stock 98 cobra runs in the 13s consistently. I think it runs low 14s. No one on this board has shown me proof after 11 pages of this ****!
After reading all this weight/HP BS...isn't there a ballpark formula for "freeing up XX lbs is equivalent to gaining XX HP?" I'm almost sure I've heard some rule of thumb like this.
200 lbs is equivalent to about a tenth in the second. Hp making for a better time depends on many too many other factors like gearing, traction, temp, powerband, etc.
MFR team member #666 Posts: 8331
Joined: 10/23/2005 From: Montreal, Canada Status: offline
here's a 1/4 mile calculator http://robrobinette.com/et.htm not very accurate i know because it only takes hp and weight into account (no tq, no gearing, no traction) but if you enter 305hp + 3200lbs it gives you 13.4 i think that's a bit too fast IMO. then again if you enter 217 + 3000lbs it gives you 14.7 wich is basically what the stupid magazines were saying it ran, personnaly i think that sounds slow and inaccurate too. but as you can see on one end the cobra sounds too fast and the WRX sounds too slow. damn i'm so freakin' tired of this debate... why doesn't someone just find both cars, go to the track and post up the results.
Dude did you read the past 7 pages.... STFU, its over and ur driving a 1993...My friend 2000 civic puts out more HP than that. lmao!
Yo 1993mustanggt, if your not up to date on technology plz dont post here. this is not for the pure ****brains that did not grad high school. Dont rant here. if you had a car that would contest then maybe we could talk. But your way below my level. Go to www.escortracing.com and then set some races up with the same HP levels as you.
Well first off, I don't know everything. and I've yet to find any proof of it... since then I've gotten over this retarded debate.
Second... 225hp/300 ft lbs in a 19 year old car doesn't impress me the least, because the car weighs too much and has a huge engine that had so much more potential than 225 hp. Where as a turbo 2 liter makes 8 less horsepower at the flywheel.
Come one 2000si, the car is old as hell what do you really expect out of it? As you said, the car does have a ton of potential. N/A with the 302, a good H/C/I and supporting mods it can easily make 350hp for cheap as hell. With a 331/347 stroker it can easily make 400-450hp all while staying N/A. With FI you can easily make enough to destroy the block. You can't honestly say that the car should have made so much more for a 5.0L V8. It is a mustang, they are not meant to be the fastest/most efficient thing in the world stock. The best thing about the 5.0s, or most other large displacement motors for that matter, is their ability to respond amazingly for cheap to certain mods, all without boost. Once boosted you can have a real beast on your hands.
2kstang, you are simply retarded. Plain and simple. You want to compare your wrx to a stock 5.0? Wow, you are a badass. I will agree stock for stock you would beat a 5.0. But money is a thing we all must deal with, and there is quite the difference between $3-5,000 and $2x,000. Yes I understand that one is new and the other used, but its not my fault that he wanted to start off with a car that costs too damn much for what it is. Most any new car is a retarded purchase IMO, even a mustang. 2kstangm, For even a few thousand dollars you would get raped so hard it would be rediculous. Don't talk about old vs. new technology crap. Its all about how much power you can produce, and yours simply isn't enough for a decently modded 5.0.
I am in no way some domestic is god, your imports all suck ass idiot. I love many imports, they are reliable and can be quite powerful. The WRX/STi however, are not cars that I would even begin to modify if I wanted to go fast in a straight line. They cost too much, and don't produce enough (much like new edge stangs ).
EDIT: (just incase someone wants to start blabbing about the benefits of owning a new car) Yes I understand many people buy cars new for warranties, etc. But unless you are completely useless around a car, in which case you shouldn't be modifying it anyways, then the simple problems that occur when you have a used car shouldn't be a problem. (obviously you should research a car a lot when buying a used one, I wouldn't reccommend some beat to hell 1st gen neon or something like that) I understand that some people don't like fords, or feel that they are unreliable (2000si) but as an example, my mustang already has 150,000miles on it and it runs like an absolute champ. I thrash this thing day in and day out, and it still keeps going like a trooper. My bro's old 5.0 (which is now basically a full drag car) ran over 210,000miles before it started having problems. As long as you do some research, old cars can be a great purchase when compared to new.
< Message edited by hatingyou -- 12/11/2005 7:24:16 PM >
I am in no way some domestic is god, your imports all suck ass idiot. I love many imports, they are reliable and can be quite powerful. The WRX/STi however, are not cars that I would even begin to modify if I wanted to go fast in a straight line. They cost too much, and don't produce enough (much like new edge stangs ).
STIs are a much better platform for straight line performance, aside from their rally-tuned gearbox. Here's a video of an Ultimate Racing Stage 4 STI very similar to mine at their test and tune at the track, running a 12.1 @ 113. This was at 15 psi on pump gas. http://www.ultimate-racing.com/Products2/STi/STi-Run-Nov12.wmv
My car is currently at 19 psi hah. On race gas the setup can be tuned to 26 psi (over 500awhp) which I believe would put it into the 10s from what I remember the tuning company who tuned that setup achieved.
You're right that Subaru's aren't the easiest platform to make very very fast in the 1/4 mile. BUT they can be very very fast even in the snow and rain which is kind of cool =p With the Hancook winter tires I have on right now, apparently the last owner said he was able to launch the car just as hard in 3" of slushy snow as he could on dry pavement. It's nice knowing that I don't have to garage my car when the bad weather sets in, and can roll out and do some donuts instead ^_^
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2007 Acura TL Type S 2001 Lexus IS300 - Gone but not forgotten 2004 2.8L STI - 565 awhp/510 ft lbs on 110 leaded - SOLD!
I am in no way some domestic is god, your imports all suck ass idiot. I love many imports, they are reliable and can be quite powerful. The WRX/STi however, are not cars that I would even begin to modify if I wanted to go fast in a straight line. They cost too much, and don't produce enough (much like new edge stangs ).
STIs are a much better platform for straight line performance, aside from their rally-tuned gearbox. Here's a video of an Ultimate Racing Stage 4 STI very similar to mine at their test and tune at the track, running a 12.1 @ 113. This was at 15 psi on pump gas. http://www.ultimate-racing.com/Products2/STi/STi-Run-Nov12.wmv
My car is currently at 19 psi hah. On race gas the setup can be tuned to 26 psi (over 500awhp) which I believe would put it into the 10s from what I remember the tuning company who tuned that setup achieved.
You're right that Subaru's aren't the easiest platform to make very very fast in the 1/4 mile. BUT they can be very very fast even in the snow and rain which is kind of cool =p With the Hancook winter tires I have on right now, apparently the last owner said he was able to launch the car just as hard in 3" of slushy snow as he could on dry pavement. It's nice knowing that I don't have to garage my car when the bad weather sets in, and can roll out and do some donuts instead ^_^
I love most subies. I plan on turning my fox into a drag car when I get out of med school and building up a notch. I then want to buy an STi for a daily driver and maybe do a little work to it. I currently live in Oregon and it just pours here. I can't drive my car on the highway when it really starts raining. I once had my car do 2 360s when driving on the highway in a really bad rain storm, and it just stopped right before I hit the guard rail somehow. An AWD car would be great for this climate (though I plan on moving somewhere warmer).
Printable Version
RE: WRX vs COBRA - 
I would give either car the win on any random run down the track. It's all up to the driver.
in the meantime no i really don't feel like combing the net to satisfy your hunger for proof, sorry. but still i don't get why you can't figure it out for yourself, like i said before 305hp/300tq+3200lb car = how the hell could you not hit 13s'.
). 