This is really bad, I have been reading about GM and the direction they are heading......down the tubes.....very bad for the American people! What do you guys think.
By Rich Smith Motley Fool Updated: 12:07 p.m. ET June 9, 2005
Call me a conspiracy theorist. Go ahead, I can take it.
Now that we have that out of the way, here's what I'm thinking: Toyota(NYSE: TM) wants to buy GM(NYSE: GM). Or maybe Ford(NYSE: F). But more likely GM.
You see, when Toyota's Chairman Hiroshi Okuda opined a couple months ago that it might be prudent for Toyota to raise its prices a tad to give Detroit's automakers some breathing room, it could have been mere hubris -- Toyota needling the competition, suggesting that Detroit can only compete on price and not quality.
It could also have been a sign. For here comes Mr. Okuda again, suggesting that not only can't Detroit compete, but both Ford and GM might actually, and I quote, "crumble." This has resulted in a jingoistic backlash by American car buyers against the Japanese who laid Detroit low (never mind that if Ford and GM do indeed "crumble," those same car buyers won't have much choice but to buy imports, seeing as there would be no alternatives).
Now take those two factoids and combine them with GM CEO Rick Wagoner's recent trip to Toyota HQ to not discuss buying some hybrid technology from the masters of the craft. Consider the silliness of the CEO's assertion that he was actually in town to discuss collaborating on fuel-cell research ... a technology that may never become commercially viable. Har.
So GM wants to talk about fuel cells for tomorrow, when it's sadly lacking in hybrid cars today? Har-har.
And Toyota wants to partner this monumental undertaking with a company that its own chairman is publicly suggesting might go "poof!" at any moment? Hardy-har-har.
Still skeptical? You say that neither Ford nor GM would ever "pull a Chrysler" and sell out? Then consider two more facts suggesting just how tempting this scenario might be for all parties concerned: GM and Ford currently sport market caps of below $19 billion. Toyota has more than $19 billion in the bank. And incidentally, GM and Ford are each trading for about their cash on hand (if you ignore the piles of debt behind the curtain). So theoretically, a buyout of either of the Detroit giants would essentially be an even exchange: We give you our company, you assume our debt. Does any of this suggest a buyout scenario to you?
It does to me. But then, I'm a conspiracy theorist.
Fool contributor Rich Smith owns no shares in any company mentioned in this article, though he has, on occasion, claimed to see dead people. The Motley Fool makes no representations, express or implied, about his mental competence.
I have no problem in a foreign entity buying an american company so long as the work stays here. The problem in the instance of Chrysler and Mercedes is that Mercedes kept the 'crappy' part of Chrylser running, cheazy design, quality issues are up for Mercedes as a whole, and Chyrsler is a stepchild (i.e. Crossfire, under powered, uses old technology, and fuggly). Heavy arse cars that are the sizes of boats at or over 4000lbs with huge gas guzzling engines (i.e. Hemi) While Mercedes maintains it's 'Flagship' status and continues on it's way in pushing the technological edge leaving chrysler with scraps and old technology. That is what bothers me.
I don't see Toyota buying GM other than to shut them down. GM is too much of a liability and the auto workers union would fug things up for any kind of merger. I believe in unions but in some cases they want to much and give too little. We want so much yet gripe so loudly when we are asked to put our money where our mouths are in the pursuit of quality. There's no such thing as 'Cheap' quality.
If the buyout means the company survives in a profitable way and betters its image, reputation, AND quality then so be it. Another buyout like Dalmer Chrysler though would be
RE: Toyota buying American........ - 6/22/2005 6:33:05 PM
Guest
quote:
ORIGINAL: COJONES
i hate toyota, reasons why
1.what does toyota make thats fast? supra? well look up the new supra, looks like crap and isnt that great from what ive heard.
2. buddy of mine was sittin at a light and a toyota tacoma hit him, ruined the front end of buddys car
3. corolla, the last car id ever want to own
4. they make cars like the matrix, the echo, i mean come on, i dont mind people who like cars that get good gas milage but these cars are just ugly
Seems you hate a car company based solely on the exterior styling of their product line... Looks are subjective, Diversity is key. Next you're taking a general stab at the automotive industry and continually looking at all cars for the same thing; speed. Not everything is built for speed, not everybody wants or can afford to own something like a Supra or a Mustang GT/SVT.
oh and you should probably hate the moron that rearended your friend, not the vehicle that he was SUPPOSED to be in control of. I can't believe you'd hate a car company and a certain vehicle because some numb nuts moron hit your friend.
In my opinion I think everything boils down to "Pride", things that makes us American, but since in America we are consumers first then citizens second, I think this is one of the main reasons that our auto industry is not doing very well. If GM wants to maintain alive then they need to make drastic changes in their production of automobiles, change their attitude towards better customer service and they need to prove to the American people that GM can make quality cars at a low price, to be able to satisfy American needs. In a way this is a wake up call for Ford that if they do not produce quality cars and provide excellent customer service then they are next. As Americans we need to have more sense of pride in our American products at least give them a chance. My opinion.
the goverment would not allow gm to be bought out by toyota it creat a monoply in the car market plus toyota does not have the capitol to buy gm out anyway
Thing is, nothing is made in America anymore. We're not the manufactuaring nation we once were. Most of us are typing this over our foreign made computer, wearing clothes made in india, sitting on a foreign made chair, surrounded by a house made out of foreign wood, carpeting ,rugs, linens, tile, flooring, and filled with tv's, phones, appliances, cellies, toys, and pretty much everything else foreign made.
The american consumer wants everything at the lowest price no matter what. Retail is so competive the the home depots and walmarts of the world will go to great lengths to get the cheapest product possible.
I think this doesn't effect the auto industry as much, plus many american cars have the majority of their parts build outside of this country anyway. I think the american auto industry can compete more favorabley then other sectors though because so many of the foriegn cars are built right here. That means a company like hyundai or toyota pretty much voluntary took away its possible labor/cost advantage to become more american and sell it as such. There succesful mainly because of design and quality, not some huge cost or wage difference like other sectors (though union agreements are currently hurting GM). Its much easier for GM to improve design and quality then it is to compete price wise if they had to compete versus south korean or chinese labor expenses.
< Message edited by 2001 GT -- 6/23/2005 4:29:28 AM >
RE: Toyota buying American........ - 6/23/2005 10:56:51 AM
Guest
I beg to differ... Honda cars, Toyota cars and Hyundai cars roll off assembly lines on American soil. More Imports are built here than domestic cars. Which is why I laugh when I see someone to tell me to buy an American car.
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hehe, since this is a mustang site, i just thought i'd mention that all steeda parts are made in america, all bassani parts are made in america, all SLP parts are made in america, the list goes on... Sure I have no idea where their manufacturing equipment or supplies come from. But i'm confident that their performance parts are made here.
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1.what does toyota make thats fast? supra? well look up the new supra, looks like crap and isnt that great from what ive heard.
2. buddy of mine was sittin at a light and a toyota tacoma hit him, ruined the front end of buddys car
3. corolla, the last car id ever want to own
4. they make cars like the matrix, the echo, i mean come on, i dont mind people who like cars that get good gas milage but these cars are just ugly
Seems you hate a car company based solely on the exterior styling of their product line... Looks are subjective, Diversity is key. Next you're taking a general stab at the automotive industry and continually looking at all cars for the same thing; speed. Not everything is built for speed, not everybody wants or can afford to own something like a Supra or a Mustang GT/SVT.
oh and you should probably hate the moron that rearended your friend, not the vehicle that he was SUPPOSED to be in control of. I can't believe you'd hate a car company and a certain vehicle because some numb nuts moron hit your friend.
well my post was more of a joke than seriousness, i dont really like toyota that much, but i dont believe the best cars are the fast ones, i love all kinds of cars, i was merely posting that so my friend would read it and get a kick outta it
If GM is ever about to go under and their stock drops like hell, you should buy, cause the gov't will never let a co. like GM go down in flames. They rescued chyrsler from death before, and they would need to do the same for GM, or the whole economy would go to hell. And seriously, toyotas are gay ass cars, I don't care if they are reliable by reputation. Anybody who buys a corolla is a lame ass with no flair for life, or a woman who doesn't like cars. My bicycle is way more reliable with similar horsepower. Don't even get me started on how reliable my nikes are. And btw, the best cars ARE the fast ones. A golf cart will get you around town as well as a toyota. Cars are not supposed to be reliable and slow, buses do that. Cars are supposed to be cool and make your heart beat faster, cause that's the american way. And anyone who works for the japanese will tell you that their quality is all reputation, not reality. Actually the japanese would tell you that if it wasn't such a closely guarded secret. It's a little known fact that if a japanese guy admits that their quality is all rep. and not reality, ninjas drop out of the ceiling and f*ck them up.
Well, I can't complain cause I work for a Toyota dealer. We own Jeep, Ford, Olds, Honda & Toyota. Oops, The 92 Toy Pickup blew the engine last week. My kid ran it without oil afew months ago (he changed it himself and apparently forgot do to something) & it finally caught up with the rods (at 180K miles) and I STILL sold it the next day for $750. Something tells me I won't get that for th 92 Olds...
Well, I can't complain cause I work for a Toyota dealer. We own Jeep, Ford, Olds, Honda & Toyota. Oops, The 92 Toy Pickup blew the engine last week. My kid ran it without oil afew months ago (he changed it himself and apparently forgot do to something) & it finally caught up with the rods (at 180K miles) and I STILL sold it the next day for $750. Something tells me I won't get that for th 92 Olds...
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Something tells me that you're right about the Olds. Comparing a truck to a car? That's crazy. A truck has so many more functions then a car, much less a 92 Olds. As a matter of fact, look at prices of new pickups compared to new cars. The fact of the matter is, there is nothing any one person on this forum can do about buyouts, sellouts, companies crumbling, or companies creating monopolies, or even resale value. What's great about this life, is that, even if Toyota were to buy GM, life will go on. Being an auto enthusiast, I would hate to see that happen, even though I don't care for very many GM vehicles. IF it were to happen, you lose one more little bit of diversity. That's what hurts me. Toyotas will start resembling GMs and vice versa. It's sad to things like this happen to any company. When I go to buy a new car, I want there to be thousands of choices, rather then 80 choices... being as there are 10 cars with subtle sheet metal and fiberglass changes from one brand of auto. Regardless, you can bet your hard earned dollar American soil is the greatest soil.
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