You guys are a bit funny, arguing back and forth as to which tranny is faster in the MGT. The guys with the autos seem a bit defensive, and aggressive regarding that topic.
But, the fact of the matter is, for those of you that looked at that ONE test where the car mag got the auto to go to 60 mph faster than the manual is NOT a basis to support that the auto is faster than the manual. If memory serves, that auto car was also a convertible. With like 120 pounds extra weight. Next you'll also believe them in saying that an extra 120 (or whatever it was) pounds doesn't affect acceleration!
There are MANY variable that could of made that particular car perform better than the manual they had in a previous test. Weather (temp, wind, barometric pressure, etc), break in mileage on each, track conditions, whether they even tested them at the SAME place, amount of options on each car (the Shaker 1000 audio system adds 73 POUNDS to the cars weight...the shaker 500 only 15 pounds), or the manual they tested might just not have been running fully up to par, and the auto might have been a ringer that was running exceptionally well. Who knows?
BUT, what it comes down to is that, with the VAST majority of the tests made so far, the manuals run faster. Now, for those magazine racers, 0-60 means squat, zip, zero, nothing!
True, it takes a better driver in a manual to launch well, than it does somebody in an auto...so all else being equal, an auto driver might actually get a small lead out of the gate over a manual driver.
And in the case of the 05 Mustang GT...the auto might very well be CLOSE to the manuals best times in 0-60. But what counts in racing is not just 0-60. Whether you are on a drag strip or track or an auto-x course, the race doesn't end once you hit 60 mph.
When you compare 1/4 mile times, MOST show not only the manual having a lower ET, but a FASTER trap speed. Trap speed is what's indicative of the car's potential for accelerating at ANY TIME other than right out of the gate. A Mitsubishi EVO can get out of the gate's faster than MOST anybody driving a Corvette ZO6 will do, but does that make the EVO faster? Heck NO!
Arguing 0-60 as support as to which is FASTER just shows ignorance in racing and acceleration.
The 05 Mustang GT manual will by ALL accounts be the FASTER car...period. It not only has a more aggressive axle ratio (3.55:1) compared to the autos (3.31:1) but has more aggressive gearing...except strangely 2nd and 5th. The manual will suffer less drivetrain power loss...meaning more power will get to the wheels (I'm sure dynos have proven this) and that alone also means more speed. But the manual also weighs 40 pounds less. True 40 pounds isn't much, but when at a strip, it can mean the difference of winning or losing.
Suffice it to say, 98 out of 100 times if you take a manual 05 GT and an auto 05 GT and run them side by side and do a "rolling race" the manual GT will pull away (given relatively equal drivers) from any speed. This is a MUCH better test of a cars acceleration ability than anything else. When you take the weight, gearing, axle ratio, and drivetrain power loss ALL into account, there's just no way the auto will be FASTER than the manual in the 05 MGT.
Now, as which to get....it's personal choice. Obviously if the ultimate driving experience is what's important, get the manual. If you want a fast daily driver for the bumper to bumper grind...the auto will do just fine. But don't expect to be able to keep up with a manual driver at road courses or twisty mountain roads, where being able to choose your own gear and hold that gear in a manual will never be duplicated in a standard (non-DSG or F1 type tranny) automatic transmission. And if hardcore driving in twisties or at a course IS what's important to you, I'm sure you wouldn't be seriously looking at the auto anyway.
Have fun, sorry so long!
< Message edited by Driver72 -- 6/2/2005 7:10:44 PM >
WHERE were YOU when that kid was saying GT's are fast... LOL
Personallly - I wondering how long it will take for good Automatic Shift Kits, Paddle Shift Controlers and EC Torque Clutches are out there for the 05'.
_____________________________
-PW (Professor Wizard)
Vv My Sexy Lady vV 05' Torch Red Vert, Red Int, All Options, Remote Start, Chrome GT's, and other stuff! *Sponsored by Dent Devil*
Great post, now I won’t be able to sleep tonight cuz I not only bought a Auto, but my Auto is a Vert & has the 1000, add my lard ass with no skill as far as racing goes and I am right back where I started.....Smiling from ear to ear knowing I have a 05 GT in my garage. 0-60 means nothing to me...don't get me wrong I love to go fast. And what I have, for me is fast enough even if it is a pig Auto with a little extra Lbs like its owner. The day I can come to this site and understand everything I read will be the day I need to think about going faster, till then I will just sit back, spend my 8 hours a day laughing and taking notes on what is good, bad and personal preference.
Thanks again for all the good will and info
Dan
_____________________________
05 GT Prim Vert, IUP,1000, 5 spoke with spinning pony,XM Commander,A/T,Sequential Turns
Posts: 1939
Joined: 4/9/2005 From: San Diego, CA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: Driver72
You guys are a bit funny, arguing back and forth as to which tranny is faster in the MGT. The guys with the autos seem a bit defensive, and aggressive regarding that topic.
... ad infinitum...
Be careful when you generalize like that... not everything you said in your post is accurate.
Anytime I've seemed "defensive" or "aggressive" it has been in response to other comments insinuating that somehow a manual is always superior over the automatic; regardless of the situation. It wasn't in defense of the AT itself, but in defense of my right to choose the transmission that best suits my lifestyle, thereby making it the most "fun" for me.
But, I'm worn out on this topic. Anyone who wants to read my opinions can find them in the two big threads...
_____________________________
2005 Sonic Blue GT,A/T,Dk Char Lthr,IUP Mods:17x9 Bullitts-275/50s,C&L CAI+Predator,4.10 gears,SLP PowerFlo,Chin Spoiler,Tint,Chase TLs Ordered: Planned:Saleen SC,Headers
My choice to get the 5 speed was all about enjoyment. I don't care about 0-60 times, nor top end. I'm 46 and have never driven a stick until now. I was going to get the AT but couldn't find one in the color I wanted. A dealer had a 5 speed with everything I wanted and we took it out. I test drove it for 3 days in a row. I then re-test drove an AT. No comparison. The exhaust note of the MT is better and the response is better. I tried downshitting the AT to see if it would sound and feel better if it was shifted to 2nd. It just didn't have the same punch. Still I was going to hold out for an AT. I was unsure of shifting gears day in and day out. But I went for the 5 speed because of the fun of 2nd and 3rd gear.
You can cruise around in 2nd and give a little shot of gas and get snapped back into your seat. With the auto you always have to put it to the floor to get the downshift. Traffic for me isn't a big issue. Heck you can start off in 2nd very easy and just stay in that gear. Now for those who are in real heavy traffic everyday...well I have to question getting this car. 300hp, gas guzzler, and your driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic? What fun is that? What's the point of having this car?? You question having a MT in such conditions, I question having a car like this in those conditions.
The GM at the dealership I got the car said that the GT is made to be driven with a 5 speed. The AT just doesn't do the car justice. And I agree. I would have no trouble going back to an AT on some other "regular" car. But the GT really does cry out for a 5 speed.
Know what would be AWESOME? A car that was both, and depending on your mood, or driving conditions you could discern which you wanted.
It would also end these type of posts. Geez!
(Ford if decide to use my idea don't try and pull any MyColor crap.)
That tranny would be Audi/VW's DSG!!
Just absolutely the best of both worlds and VERY fun to drive. Audi/VW is allowing their "cousin" company...Porsche to use the same DSG tranny (obviously Porsche will call it something else) in their upcoming cars as well. There will be people who'll argue..."it's still not the same as having a clutch" Blah, blah...it's better. All the control of a clutch, but instead of rowing a stick, you flick paddles. Plus you get BETTER performance, lightening fast shifts, better gas mileage. It lets you take the car all the way into redline...to fuel cutoff...and does your heel n toe rev matching downshifts for you too. But when in bumper to bumper, you just let it do it's thing.
It'll only be a matter a 5+ years before EVERY auto manufacturer copies Audi/VW and has their own version. Unless of course Audi/VW has patented the thing to death, which would be smart...because then they could "sell" the rights to other manufacturers to use it for TONS o cash!! It WILL make the traditional automatic tranny extinct and it could very well make a traditional manual a RARE transmission as well.
If you guys haven't driven one, go for a test drive in the Audi A3 or Audi TT with the 3.2 VR6.
< Message edited by Driver72 -- 6/5/2005 1:58:33 PM >
Gotta say that my primary reasoning behind buying the manual was my previous experience of high powered cars in manual and automatic guises.
I've always been a Corvette owner, and most recently have had 2 C5's - one manual, and one auto.
The auto came first - as the Vette was a 4 speed, the noise and "bumps" when the car changed weren't great, but the other problem was the effect on the car's handling. If I was coming off a bend, and decided to put my foot down, the car would drop 2 gears, and the back end would kick out like a mule. There were a few times that I near enough lost control of the car and crashed it. I decided that it was un-usable, and it had to go.
So I traded it for my last vette, a Y2K 6 Speed Manual. This was a world apart - as I knew what gear the car was in all the time, it was sooooo much more controlable, sounded better and felt much faster. From then on, I've sworn never to have high-powered automatic cars.
For SUV's and the like, I'd never have a manual, but as well as the issues mentioned above, it's just the right thing to have a manual in a 'stang.
_____________________________
2005 4.6 Mustang GT in Black with Red leather - Fully loaded!!
Now for those who are in real heavy traffic everyday...well I have to question getting this car. 300hp, gas guzzler, and your driving in bumper-to-bumper traffic? What fun is that? What's the point of having this car??
UH, because I can? Because it's a Mustang GT? Because it makes me look cool? (Ok, that's a stretch) Because I'm 43 so this could be the last sports car I buy? Someone else said (paraphrased) - I'll take all the clutching and shifting in traffic during the week for one good run on a windy road on a weekend. I agree. Besides, I LIKE shifting, revving, clutching and watching others check out my ride! ;)
_____________________________
Ya GOTTA love it!! 18 weeks, but she's finally here! GT Premium, Redfire, Charcoal, IUP, 17" Brights, side airbags, manual ... sweet!
I'm not sure your reading skills are up to par....I'm not knocking anyone getting the GT. My comment is intended for those that say the AT is best for them because of bumper-to-bumper traffic. Well if the traffic is that bad then how much is just sitting there in a 300hp car? I'm very glad I got the 5 speed. I can't imagine driving the car without it. An AT GT would still be a fun ride and look amazing- but the 5 speed is the transmission the car should have-- plus you save about $1000.
Ya ive got an 03 GT auto and i dont have any problems spankin some people, the pick up when you floor it is great and hey i never miss a shift so i dont mind at all....and plus i can eat, drink or whatever and still whoop some people while im doin it ....i love the auto
Stock vs stock, Motor Trend got identical acceleration 0-60 times auto and manual. In my world that means in my hands the auto is faster b/c my ego isn't so big that I think I can shift a manual tranny as fast as an automobile magazine editor/ professional driver. Even if years of practice made me THAT good the 1-2 tenths of a second defference would'nt be noticable.
Hey lets think for a second. Manual 3.55 gears, Auto 3.3x gears. I CAN'T IMAGINE WHICH IS GOING TO BE FASTER!!! Ford programs the auto so it shifts for best fuel economy, not for performance. The auto is very laggy and I could feel a huge difference when I drove the auto compared to a manual. If you got a good tune on the auto and some better gears, it would be much closer.
Magazine writers are not hired because they can drive, they are hired because they can write.
Shift kit anyone? Now first of all, i'm not here to talk sh*t. But moving on, i'd say pound for pound the auto would be faster. Why? As stated alreaedy, the 0-60 times a car is rated for is done by professional drivers, perfect temperature(s), and pavement. Now unless you know the exact RPM to shift at, how much gas to give and when, then stating a standard is faster isn't 100% true. Lets stop for a second, and take a look at some of the people that put REALLY SERIOUS horsepower to their cars. (675HP+ and i'm not talking SC) Do you think most of them are using standards? Not a chance in hell. If they did the tach would wrap around 3 times before they could even get it into 2nd gear. That's just my .02 cents.
< Message edited by Stang9946 -- 6/12/2005 9:20:25 PM >
Printable Version
RE: Manual or Automatic - 
LOL 
