The truck is a 10 second truck only when spraying, which he wasn't.
Your not gonna see to many 10 second eclipse running around on the street, or 10 second imports for that matter. They are getting pretty dammed hairy and unstreetable at that point.
V8>4cyl. The only people that cannot seem to accept that are people with 4cyl. In the same matter v10>v8, and bigger displacement > smaller displacement.
Its not bias, its simple fact. With a set amount of money the v8 will win every single time, hands down.
Thats not totally true... I know plenty of people with crazy fast 4 bangers My neighbor has an 04 STi pushing over 600 awhp!! It is an easy 10 sec, daily driven car. It isn't possible to say one is better than the other. It just depends on your tastes.
Kenny
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03 SVT Cobra Magnaflow cat-back Bassani O/R X-pipe Denscharger air kit Metco 2.7 blower pulley and 100mm idler Predator tuner MGW Orange handle Shifter MT ET Street Radials
I think ford needs to stop being cheap bastards and actually build big motors... No wonder camaro's used to romp on the mustangs all the time, there motors have over a liter more displacement, and what does ford do to try and bridge this gap? They just supercharge there small motors.. where at the same time.. vettes and such were making the same ammount of HP N/A as the supercharged ford engines were.. sad sad tale
I think ford needs to stop being cheap bastards and actually build big motors... No wonder camaro's used to romp on the mustangs all the time, there motors have over a liter more displacement, and what does ford do to try and bridge this gap? They just supercharge there small motors.. where at the same time.. vettes and such were making the same ammount of HP N/A as the supercharged ford engines were.. sad sad tale
There's a reason why the Camaro/TransAm are dead...too expensive and gas guzzlers up the ass.. they might have bigger larger motors but they are far more expensive to maintain and supe up without breaking the bank. Friend of mine had to get rid of his T/a because it was breaking down and crap. plus it loved gas more than any mustang could ever. But..if you afford to keep one of those then you got what it takes...but mustang are cheap and fast..and respond well to bolt ons..they can be made real fast with little money. and plus they look damn sexy.
-Mike
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04 Gt 320rwhp 315rwtq Before the 150 shot of NX :)
The truck is a 10 second truck only when spraying, which he wasn't.
Your not gonna see to many 10 second eclipse running around on the street, or 10 second imports for that matter. They are getting pretty dammed hairy and unstreetable at that point.
V8>4cyl. The only people that cannot seem to accept that are people with 4cyl. In the same matter v10>v8, and bigger displacement > smaller displacement.
Its not bias, its simple fact. With a set amount of money the v8 will win every single time, hands down.
No he wasn't spraying. I agree with everything except the fact that you can't have a streetable 10 second 4 cylinder. I guess you've never seen Cheezefrogs daily driver.
You know i wish 90 percent of you knew what the heck you all talked about. Some of you need to stop making up crap and stop reading and start building your own rides cause most of you have no clue.
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93 Coupe,DSS 331/N-91 Cam/AFR185 heads/Vic Jr intake/Mac 1 3/4 Longtubes/Dr Gas X pipe/Spin tech mufflers/430 gears/T-5 Trans for now.
Don't give me that "it cost huge amounts of money to make a 4 fast" or that "v8's are always cheaper" generalzation. It comes down to the specific engine strength and circumstance at hand. When theres 2 liter eclipses running 7.3's and other incredibly fast times w/out any aftermarket blocks or corporate sponsorships they got to be doing something right (The bigger displacement 2.3's are slower BTW). Hell, it cost me a few hundred to make my 92 eclipse run a high 12. I can't drop the exhaust, put on a maf-t, and crank up the boost on my gt and hit a 12 that cheap or easy.
How come the fastest 6 speed v-10 viper is as fast as the fastest 5 speed mitsu tranny eclipse? If both cars are stock chassis cars that weigh almost the same then shouldn't a huge v-10 annihilate a puny little 2.0 liter 4 banger on stock block and crank?
and how are they less "streetable". The ability to turn down boost at the flick of a dial, the ability to run single digit passes on actual street tires (awd), and the ability to get stock gas milage if you keep out of the boost makes them worse then a crazy cam and slicked out ride??? The nice thing about those awd cars are the 10-11 second cars at the track are just as fast on the street from a dig. In the end, who gives ****. Mod what you want, thats the fun part. The replacement for displacement is forced induction. A cast iron high reving block built for high boost applications is very different animal from an aluminum N/A v8 such as an LS1. Just two very different ways to go fast. Yes, one needs boost to go fast, but on the other hand, the Ls1 can't hold 25+ psi w/out cracking off the valve cover like the other can. So the "put the v8 on 25 psi" arguement holds no water. When theres 4 cylinders producing 1200+hp and marcos supra hitting around 1900hp at the the crank w/ stock block and crank how can a V-8 be the only game in town?? Some people need to get out of their bubble.
cheap small ford motors huh?...so why is it that a viper powered 04 ram only runs .3 faster in the 1/4 than an 04 lightning...chip and pulley swap, its over
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12443
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2001 GT
Don't give me that "it cost huge amounts of money to make a 4 fast" or that "v8's are always cheaper" generalzation. It comes down to the specific engine strength and circumstance at hand. When theres 2 liter eclipses running 7.3's and other incredibly fast times w/out any aftermarket blocks or corporate sponsorships they got to be doing something right (The bigger displacement 2.3's are slower BTW). Hell, it cost me a few hundred to make my 92 eclipse run a high 12. I can't drop the exhaust, put on a maf-t, and crank up the boost on my gt and hit a 12 that cheap or easy.
How come the fastest 6 speed v-10 viper is as fast as the fastest 5 speed mitsu tranny eclipse? If both cars are stock chassis cars that weigh almost the same then shouldn't a huge v-10 annihilate a puny little 2.0 liter 4 banger on stock block and crank?
and how are they less "streetable". The ability to turn down boost at the flick of a dial, the ability to run single digit passes on actual street tires (awd), and the ability to get stock gas milage if you keep out of the boost makes them worse then a crazy cam and slicked out ride??? The nice thing about those awd cars are the 10-11 second cars at the track are just as fast on the street from a dig. In the end, who gives ****. Mod what you want, thats the fun part. The replacement for displacement is forced induction. A cast iron high reving block built for high boost applications is very different animal from an aluminum N/A v8 such as an LS1. Just two very different ways to go fast. Yes, one needs boost to go fast, but on the other hand, the Ls1 can't hold 25+ psi w/out cracking off the valve cover like the other can. So the "put the v8 on 25 psi" arguement holds no water. When theres 4 cylinders producing 1200+hp and marcos supra hitting around 1900hp at the the crank w/ stock block and crank how can a V-8 be the only game in town?? Some people need to get out of their bubble.
Yeah and your totally full of **** if you think a stock turbo eclipse of any year is gonna run 12s. Let me guess "well I raced this guy that had a 12 second car and beat him". Not to mention your not going to be running around doing hard launches in a DSM with a beefed up engine, without your transmission saying bye bye every few launches. I have owned one of these cars, and 3 other family members owned them as well. I have personally done several engine swaps and more transmission swaps than I want to remeber. Hell, it took 4 junkyard trans just to find a good one for my FWD non turbo. To say that my brothers AWD TSI got raped when we raced (with my car stock) is the understatement of the century. It looked like he had it in reverse.
I have never seen a 4cyl that simply "turned up the turbo" and went from a mild street ride to a 10 second monster. And even in my realitvly mild ride, racing anyone thats EVER asked to over the past 2 years, I have NEVER lost a race to anything but a V8. That's gotta say something. And most were highway rolls.
Cheesefrog has thousands upon thousands of dollars into a civic that when he has racefuel and slicks on he can run a high 10. And if you have ever heard that car run it is definatly not a smooth idling grocery getter. Streetable means your not pumping the gas at the light to keep it running, it acutally has an INTERIOR, and doesn't beat you to ****. It also means you can race from a stop with a set of tires that lets you turn a full circle in less than 1000 feet.
And a 25 PSI LS1??? Do you have any idea how much horsepower that would be making?? No doubt there are 4cyl that can handle more boost than a certian V8, but the power levels at that boost will not be anything close to comparable. Don't sit here and talk **** like 7 second DSMs running with stock blocks and rotating assemblys. Hell, back in 99 that shop in maine had the worlds fastest and it was totally redone, and only running low 9s.
And we havent even gotten into acutally looking at the dyno curves yet. Why don't you take a look at cheesefrog's dyno, if he acutally puts it out. I got a 20 that says his dyno looks like a huge rollercoaster. In everyday low RPM driving it makes nothing until you see this huge boost at 5500 RPM. What good does that do on street tires.
You ever seen the race between him and that viper? They are running like 40 MPH and he still cannot hook up.
Plain and simple, you can go out and spend 10K on a 4cyl and make it a fast machine, but its gonna be a bitch to drive, and it isn't gonna have half the balls on the street that it does on the track. Its gonna be doggy unless you want to run around reving the **** out of it all the time.
On the other hand, I could spend 10K on a foxbody, and have a totally streetable grocery getter, that is 100 percent reialble until I crack the bottle open. Then it runs 10s in full street trim. And while your wasting all of that 10K on the motor/turbo, I already have a new rearend and transmission, and no worries, on top of the shiny new powerplant.
Get over it. Like I said before, give me a set amount of money to spend and the v8 wins, and it does so in more streetable, comfortable fashion.
< Message edited by 2000GT4.6 -- 5/12/2005 2:29:09 PM >
everybody knows that there is no replacement for displacement... pretty common saying... pretty damn true... anybody who knows anything about cars will agree that a v8 is the way to go. any engine can spin at 5500000000 rpm and get a ****load of hp, but that doesn't make is useable. Drive a v6 accord, and compare it to the new mustang v6, the stang has less horsepower but on the street it has a more useful powerband cause it's 33% bigger. The only people who think a 4cyl. is a better engine than a v8 are those who haven't driven a v8.
cheap small ford motors huh?...so why is it that a viper powered 04 ram only runs .3 faster in the 1/4 than an 04 lightning...chip and pulley swap, its over
Your comparing a stock truck, which is heavier then a lightning.. vs a modified lightning? Nice comparison, if you want a real comparison, compare the top of the line mustang VS the 05 viper which runs 11.5 - 11.7 in the quartermile stock
Printable Version
Parish vs Eclipse - 
My neighbor has an 04 STi pushing over 600 awhp!! It is an easy 10 sec, daily driven car. It isn't possible to say one is better than the other. It just depends on your tastes. 
