Posts: 613
Joined: 11/18/2003 From: United States Status: offline
clemson5.9L, do you go to clemson or is that just a favorite school or somethin? i'm from gville and used to go out there a lot for the auto-x races. anyway...back on topic...this whole thing is lame...mod, please kill this thread!!! there's no telling how many times this stupid topic has been brought up...please, give it a rest.
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91' GT (my baby) Trickflow Trackheat Intake, Pypes Exhaust 96' GT (for sale $6,500) 89' 240SX SR20DET my auto-x/drifter
Power to weight ratio fellas.. what do your mustangs weigh? 3400 pounds or something? a late model CRX weighs in at 1800 - 1900 pounds... do a motor swap from a LS Vtec and turbo it.... your smokin, not to mention if you take out the back seats and alot of other little goodies you dont need to make it even lighter then it already is
< Message edited by Joe99es -- 5/16/2005 10:20:43 PM >
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2001 GT
since this thread is too good to let die....
Joe99es I can't believe your trying to bring the "bad gas mileage" and "can't turn" excuse into this. Thats the ultimate ricer comp out. Both are untrue but yet always try to get brought up. this was a point a to point b race. Not a race to the gas pump. You better beleive a fast 4 uses gas too. HP = fuel.
Though on the very same note, the same is to be said when somebody sees a fast import and says, "well, i bet its unreliable",, well i bet you don't know **** and are just guessing out of your ass.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
I am glad that you can give me a bunch of videos and websites saying that they are running xx.xx times with xx mods. No pictures, no proof. BTW, my stock n/a GT ran a 11.91@20,000 MPH. Its on a web site, it must be true.
are you retarded??. i post vids, websites with pictures, videos, mods, magazine articles, timeslips, and when and where info and IT'S NOT ENOUGH?? Do you need a signed affidavit and a personal ride in each car to believe them. Your disbelief shows you were at least pretty shocked when I can show you 4 cylinders that look stock, run 9's and 10's, are actually daily driven, and still weigh 3000 pounds. I got plenty more for each car, I get to see most of them every year at the dsm shootout IN PERSON. its like me saying the fastest and most well known mustang guys don't exist. The big names that you know and see in person are just lies since you can't "show me any proof". Meanwhile everybody else is saying v10>v-8 WITH NO PROOF and thats fine.
quote:
BTW, after a google search, every one of the cars you mentioned under the 10 second mark is running a competely gutted interior, unstreetable setup, converted to RWD.
????uhh no. Only the 7 second guys are rwd. Pretty much the 8-9 second guys are awd w/ a FEW FWD guys. Did you see the tapp daily driver, I got plenty more if you need to see. None of them are gutted. A full stock interior is gutted? unstreetable? A local guy in my home town drives his 750 hp eclipse around quite often when he feels the need. The damn thing looks stock and sounds stock just driving around. I have a huge video of it I can send you since you always like proof. Sorry I can't offer you a personal ride/tour/signed affidavit/character reference/etc. I guess i could link you to local boards where every knows him.
quote:
Seriously, if 4cyl are so great and so easy to modify, what car are you currently driving again? Whoops, kinda kicks the pants outta your argument don't it??? :)
You know, some of us own more then one car, in fact, some of us are sick and own more then 5 cars:). Some of us got a great deal from a relative that they couldn't refuse on a stang. I enjoy the car and always loved stangs, but IN MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE, I would rather keep it pretty much stock and mod a 5.0/possibly 03+cobra if i wanted to mod a stang. I was just saying that theres some extremely strong 4 cylinders that mod as well as most v8s out there if not better. 3gste, sr20, 4g63 and the like. Of course you will see more fast domestics. They have a 40 year headstart in this country, outnumber the motors I listed by the millions, have a much bigger aftermarket and have corporate sponsered cars etc. I wonder if they make the same arguement in Japan. "If american v-8s are so good, how come nobody here uses them".
I clicked on every single link, and all of them are videos of cars with no engine shots. One has a mod list, the rest are plain videos. I am sorry, there is no way in christ a guy is driving a 750 HP eclipse around on street gas, espcially on anything close to the stock displacement/motor. What is he running, 40+ PSI?
Lets see a vid of a guy running 9s on the strip, with a motor shot, and then the same guy cruising around town with the sucker, and filling it up at the gas station. It ain't gonna happen.
I am not the least suprised that 4cyl are running 9s. However, I would be suprised off my rocker if I saw anything close to a streetable true 9s car.
BTW 98LS1, there are plenty of domestic 9 second cars that are 100 percent streetable out there. MM&FF's last cobra shootout had quite a few cars in the 9s on a very streetable setup (so long as your willing to burn thru the MTs). A 408 fox with a 300 shot is easily a 9 second true daily driver, and I have no doubt there are LS1 cars with N20 that are running around town and capable of 9 second blasts.
Streetable BTW means a full interior, A/C, pump gas, tires that can drive in the rain, a car that doesn't need you to stay on the pedal to keep it running, etc etc.
Heres another question for ya: If eclipse are so badass, so easy to mod, etc, and the way that 2000SI and a few others like to post KB cobras getting beat down, where are the videos??
In fact, this is the first street vid I have seen of a decently fast eclipse, and I have almost 5 gigs of races on my hard drive alone, not to mention like 3 or 4 DVDs worth I have collected over the past 2 years. Where are all of these badass street eclipse's?
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: Joe99es
Power to weight ratio fellas.. what do your mustangs weigh? 3400 pounds or something? a late model CRX weighs in at 1800 - 1900 pounds... do a motor swap from a LS Vtec and turbo it.... your smokin, not to mention if you take out the back seats and alot of other little goodies you dont need to make it even lighter then it already is
So, buy a car for 3 or 4 grand, rip out the motor, spend 3 grand on getting a new one, spend another 5 grand on the turbo setup, forge the bottom end, then pay to have it tuned, make sure the suspension is up to snuff, replace the stock gearbox......... Seems to be adding up doesn't it? And your still in a car that can't run anything but D/Rs at the best (and fairly small width ones) and still be able to TURN.
Did any of you guys talking **** about imports acutally SEE that cheesefrog vid vs the viper?? He was spinning like mad from like 50 MPH thru 3 or so gears. It's got no power at all, then BAM everything comes on all at once, and your leaving a smoke trail.
GET OVER IT. You are never going to convice anyone that 4cyl are better or cheaper to modify, because it simply isn't true. Any setup you name, any price you talk about, I can tell you a theoritcal setup that is cheaper and more streetable in a v8, because it is EASIER to make a car with alot of displacement go faster. Why do you think that LS1s are perform so much better stock than a 4.6L GT? Why do you think that they increase power so much more with even simple mods? Displacement.
Exactly, the STI is good at EVERYTHING, your V8's are not good for **** but going in a straight line.. go to a autocross sometime, whos winning those? all the 4 banger miatas and mx3's and proteges and such, go to the real track? A 4 banger will kill you in the turns, go to a rally event? dont even try
I do believe the S351r were built to run scca and they compete pretty damn good too, the saleens are made to handle as well as go real fast in a straight line....My brother has an STI with some minor bolt ons and if we raced even with corners I'd be so far in front I could get out of the car and push it thru the corner ,get back in and he still wouldnt have caught up TRUST ME
< Message edited by 99saleen351r -- 5/17/2005 12:16:18 PM >
Exactly, the STI is good at EVERYTHING, your V8's are not good for **** but going in a straight line.. go to a autocross sometime, whos winning those? all the 4 banger miatas and mx3's and proteges and such, go to the real track? A 4 banger will kill you in the turns, go to a rally event? dont even try
< Message edited by 99saleen351r -- 5/17/2005 12:14:10 PM >
I clicked on every single link, and all of them are videos of cars with no engine shots. One has a mod list, the rest are plain videos. I am sorry, there is no way in christ a guy is driving a 750 HP eclipse around on street gas, espcially on anything close to the stock displacement/motor. What is he running, 40+ PSI?
Lets see a vid of a guy running 9s on the strip, with a motor shot, and then the same guy cruising around town with the sucker, and filling it up at the gas station. It ain't gonna happen.
I am not the least suprised that 4cyl are running 9s. However, I would be suprised off my rocker if I saw anything close to a streetable true 9s car.
BTW 98LS1, there are plenty of domestic 9 second cars that are 100 percent streetable out there. MM&FF's last cobra shootout had quite a few cars in the 9s on a very streetable setup (so long as your willing to burn thru the MTs). A 408 fox with a 300 shot is easily a 9 second true daily driver, and I have no doubt there are LS1 cars with N20 that are running around town and capable of 9 second blasts.
Streetable BTW means a full interior, A/C, pump gas, tires that can drive in the rain, a car that doesn't need you to stay on the pedal to keep it running, etc etc.
Heres another question for ya: If eclipse are so badass, so easy to mod, etc, and the way that 2000SI and a few others like to post KB cobras getting beat down, where are the videos??
In fact, this is the first street vid I have seen of a decently fast eclipse, and I have almost 5 gigs of races on my hard drive alone, not to mention like 3 or 4 DVDs worth I have collected over the past 2 years. Where are all of these badass street eclipse's?
I have at least 3 gigs of dsm videos. Beating vipers/vettes/T-88 supras whatever. Obviously on a domestic site you won't see them. Many of the import sites are skyline and supra fanboys so you always see there races. No one gives an F about a 15 year old mitsu. In my hometown of around 100,000 I'm the slowest out of the 5 dsm guys I know who hang out together. There all in the 11's except 1. Two of the cars are on an untouched motor w/ over 100,000 miles and the other 3 have rods/pistons after either blowing something up or just doing a fresh build. My point is they didn't have to spend 10 grand, use nitrous, build their motors, strip down, or any other thing people think an import has to do. Just a decently sized turbo, fuel pump,injectors, FMIC wideband or dsmlink and thats about it. They still weigh 3000-3200 pounds, have a full interior, and use stock tires. Then theres also the 750+ hp guy. he drives his car quite a bit but being FWD instead of AWD he's making it more into a track car. With guys running high 10's on a 100% stock 4g63 motor, stock turbos going 11.5/11.6, you can see why theres quite a few fast ones. It holds power, end of story.
All the vids I posted have their website right in the link. for example heres the tapp auto car for example. 10.0 flat, daily driven, well known in the area. actual street tires. and it will go 9's this year after a few tweaks. http://tappauto.com/project.cfm?ProjectID=1 yes they turn down the boost on pump gas. But on the same note theres not many 8-10 second v-8's that'll run those times off the track w/ all seasons and without track prep the way those awd cars do on the street.
I'm defintely not saying there better then an LS1 i any way, just trying to show their are alot of guys flying for a 2.0 4 banger. 1g eclipses and talons are alot like 5.0's. You can buy them for 1 grand, there kinda ugly, you can run 12's for a few hundred, stock motor can hold 500-550+whp. So when somebody says ANY v8 will always be cheaper to mod in every circumstance I'd have to call BS.
First off the gas mileage argument is idiotic... 4 cylinders are, and have ALWAYS been made for commuters and lots of miles... DUH a V8 is superior to a 4cyl at the race track thanks to 10X as much TQ... ...and last but not least... That truck would have blown the doors off of that eclipse from the dig, the only reason that eclipse was still in the camera's view was because of the 4l60E Auto tranny in that silverado...
4cyl's will never catch up to the american v8... Sure you can boost 30lbs. and shoot 150HP shot of nitrous, maybe 1, 2, even 3 times.. But the N/A V8 will always prevail..
Hell, most of our 5.0's have well over 100,000 miles on them, still run 12's and 13's in the 1/4, plus still get an acceptible 17+ MPG...
4cyl's will never catch up to the american v8... Sure you can boost 30lbs. and shoot 150HP shot of nitrous, maybe 1, 2, even 3 times.. But the N/A V8 will always prevail..
Sorry, but no. Just no. Get that mentality out of your head until you start researching what a bolt on NA 1.6L Honda engine can do in a 2200 lb hatch.
oh, and a 2200 lb hatch with 400 hp is MORE than enough to take out even a blown V8. While it's not going to be true in EVERY application, it's out there and it's happening.
Team MF Member #2046 Posts: 12516
Joined: 1/22/2004 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2001 GT
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
I clicked on every single link, and all of them are videos of cars with no engine shots. One has a mod list, the rest are plain videos. I am sorry, there is no way in christ a guy is driving a 750 HP eclipse around on street gas, espcially on anything close to the stock displacement/motor. What is he running, 40+ PSI?
Lets see a vid of a guy running 9s on the strip, with a motor shot, and then the same guy cruising around town with the sucker, and filling it up at the gas station. It ain't gonna happen.
I am not the least suprised that 4cyl are running 9s. However, I would be suprised off my rocker if I saw anything close to a streetable true 9s car.
BTW 98LS1, there are plenty of domestic 9 second cars that are 100 percent streetable out there. MM&FF's last cobra shootout had quite a few cars in the 9s on a very streetable setup (so long as your willing to burn thru the MTs). A 408 fox with a 300 shot is easily a 9 second true daily driver, and I have no doubt there are LS1 cars with N20 that are running around town and capable of 9 second blasts.
Streetable BTW means a full interior, A/C, pump gas, tires that can drive in the rain, a car that doesn't need you to stay on the pedal to keep it running, etc etc.
Heres another question for ya: If eclipse are so badass, so easy to mod, etc, and the way that 2000SI and a few others like to post KB cobras getting beat down, where are the videos??
In fact, this is the first street vid I have seen of a decently fast eclipse, and I have almost 5 gigs of races on my hard drive alone, not to mention like 3 or 4 DVDs worth I have collected over the past 2 years. Where are all of these badass street eclipse's?
I have at least 3 gigs of dsm videos. Beating vipers/vettes/T-88 supras whatever. Obviously on a domestic site you won't see them. Many of the import sites are skyline and supra fanboys so you always see there races. No one gives an F about a 15 year old mitsu. In my hometown of around 100,000 I'm the slowest out of the 5 dsm guys I know who hang out together. There all in the 11's except 1. Two of the cars are on an untouched motor w/ over 100,000 miles and the other 3 have rods/pistons after either blowing something up or just doing a fresh build. My point is they didn't have to spend 10 grand, use nitrous, build their motors, strip down, or any other thing people think an import has to do. Just a decently sized turbo, fuel pump,injectors, FMIC wideband or dsmlink and thats about it. They still weigh 3000-3200 pounds, have a full interior, and use stock tires. Then theres also the 750+ hp guy. he drives his car quite a bit but being FWD instead of AWD he's making it more into a track car. With guys running high 10's on a 100% stock 4g63 motor, stock turbos going 11.5/11.6, you can see why theres quite a few fast ones. It holds power, end of story.
All the vids I posted have their website right in the link. for example heres the tapp auto car for example. 10.0 flat, daily driven, well known in the area. actual street tires. and it will go 9's this year after a few tweaks. http://tappauto.com/project.cfm?ProjectID=1 yes they turn down the boost on pump gas. But on the same note theres not many 8-10 second v-8's that'll run those times off the track w/ all seasons and without track prep the way those awd cars do on the street.
I'm defintely not saying there better then an LS1 i any way, just trying to show their are alot of guys flying for a 2.0 4 banger. 1g eclipses and talons are alot like 5.0's. You can buy them for 1 grand, there kinda ugly, you can run 12's for a few hundred, stock motor can hold 500-550+whp. So when somebody says ANY v8 will always be cheaper to mod in every circumstance I'd have to call BS.
Im done arguing, but ya know what I love? From the link you gave me:
quote:
What is the most HP ever made on the Tapp Dyno?
Currently the highest horsepower ever recorded on our dyno was 910.9 at the wheels from a 1990 Ford Mustang.
The highest import horsepower is 707 WHP from the Tapp Auto Eagle Talon
WTF are you talking about a Tapp Dyno? That means absolutely nothing.. thats one dyno, in one area.. that holds absolutely no relevance whatsoever.. I saw a video of a 1800 something RWHP Supra on the Dyno, and your trying to say the highest mustang was 910? That statement holds no relevance whatsoever
And incase you havent realized yet, a first gen mazda protege *weighin in around 2200 pounds or so, with a GTX motor swap ( 165 HP 1.8L I4 ) Can run 13's on the stock swapped motor.
< Message edited by Joe99es -- 5/18/2005 8:43:47 AM >
WTF are you talking about a Tapp Dyno? That means absolutely nothing.. thats one dyno, in one area.. that holds absolutely no relevance whatsoever.. I saw a video of a 1800 something RWHP Supra on the Dyno, and your trying to say the highest mustang was 910? That statement holds no relevance whatsoever
And incase you havent realized yet, a first gen mazda protege *weighin in around 2200 pounds or so, with a GTX motor swap ( 165 HP 1.8L I4 ) Can run 13's on the stock swapped motor.
Tapp dyno is the name of the shop not the name of the dyno click on the link.
And another thing, in 50,000 miles all those modded 4 banger engines will be soda cans and the v-8's will still be going strong. Not to mention they sound like total crap. I have heard lawnmowers that sound better.
That truck would have blown the doors off of that eclipse from the dig, the only reason that eclipse was still in the camera's view was because of the 4l60E Auto tranny in that silverado...
4cyl's will never catch up to the american v8... Sure you can boost 30lbs. and shoot 150HP shot of nitrous, maybe 1, 2, even 3 times.. But the N/A V8 will always prevail..
Hell, most of our 5.0's have well over 100,000 miles on them, still run 12's and 13's in the 1/4, plus still get an acceptible 17+ MPG...
So an awd eclipse that can cut a 1.69 60ft on street tires would get "blown away from a dig". yah nice call on that one.....
Now you're trying to bring the relibility arguement into this?? its just as bad as the BS gas mileage arguement that you hate so much. My 92 dsm w/ almost a 140k is still holding up strong even though it sees 24-25 psi frequently on a stock motor. and I'd light it on fire if I ever saw 17 mpg. Yes, for a drag car rwd v8 has the most choices and is the most popular way to go, but theres definetly other options that can fly. This was never about 4 > 8 in any way, it was just about the fact that It doesn't take 10 grand,nitrous,slicks,and paul walker to make a fast 10-11 sec import thats comfortable on the street.
HAHA, yeah a turbo'd 2.3 liter 4 cyl.. How many of them do you see around?? Personally I have never actually seen one, they are very rare, and had a low production rate, because no one wanted a 4cyl because that is not what a sports car should have, because it was not very sporty! Good argument though.. And YES the RWD silverado would have eaten that AWD eclipse off the line.. AWD is not ideal for the track, and if you think it is, you OBVIOUSLY haven't seen an AWD car with a lot of power try to get off the line, if they make it past the 60ft without letting off the gas because they crawl across the lanes, it's a miracle.. RWD is ideal for drag racing, although maybe not in a full size truck lol..
Personally I think that the people that are argueing the point about the mileage are retarted, and yes reliability means a lot, I know the honda's and toyota's last a helluva long time, but reports of the 5.0L have been quoted over 600,000 miles! I don't care what engine or car it is, that's impressive.
I love the torque of a V8, and I think that people that won't drive a v8 car don't know what it is like.. It can be a 10 second fwd car, and it feels like my moms camry accelerating onto the freeway.. I think that's BORING, it's all about the G's throwing you into your seat with a launch from 4K.. That's just me...
Power to weight ratio fellas.. what do your mustangs weigh? 3400 pounds or something? a late model CRX weighs in at 1800 - 1900 pounds... do a motor swap from a LS Vtec and turbo it.... your smokin, not to mention if you take out the back seats and alot of other little goodies you dont need to make it even lighter then it already is
So, buy a car for 3 or 4 grand, rip out the motor, spend 3 grand on getting a new one, spend another 5 grand on the turbo setup, forge the bottom end, then pay to have it tuned, make sure the suspension is up to snuff, replace the stock gearbox......... Seems to be adding up doesn't it? And your still in a car that can't run anything but D/Rs at the best (and fairly small width ones) and still be able to TURN.
Did any of you guys talking **** about imports acutally SEE that cheesefrog vid vs the viper?? He was spinning like mad from like 50 MPH thru 3 or so gears. It's got no power at all, then BAM everything comes on all at once, and your leaving a smoke trail.
GET OVER IT. You are never going to convice anyone that 4cyl are better or cheaper to modify, because it simply isn't true. Any setup you name, any price you talk about, I can tell you a theoritcal setup that is cheaper and more streetable in a v8, because it is EASIER to make a car with alot of displacement go faster. Why do you think that LS1s are perform so much better stock than a 4.6L GT? Why do you think that they increase power so much more with even simple mods? Displacement.
the difference in insurance and fuel will make up for the difference in part cost.. and i wouldn't agree that a turbo setup is $5k.. exxageration is your friend
Printable Version
RE: Parish vs Eclipse - 
cough, for sale, cough...cough??? 
