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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

Name a V8 you know of that can run 11's and still get 24 mpg

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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

Name a V8 you know of that can run 11's and still get 24 mpg

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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

Exactly, the STI is good at EVERYTHING, your V8's are not good for **** but going in a straight line.. go to a autocross sometime, whos winning those? all the 4 banger miatas and mx3's and proteges and such, go to the real track? A 4 banger will kill you in the turns, go to a rally event? dont even try

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ORIGINAL: IWinULose

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ORIGINAL: pearlsport

if that was a valid point then why don't we all run 15" steel wheels?
nascar does it.

oh and lets take all the fuel injection out of our cars. obviously carb's are better because nascar does it.

I don't run 15" wheels because they are UGLY, so I have plans for bullit 17's because I like the LOOK of those. Besides, wheels have nothing to do with motors, which is what this thread is about.... maybe read it before you make remarks? Also, I am not out to be the fastest car on the face of the planet. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with the carb theory... but ask a 100 enthusiasts which they prefer, carb or fi, and you'll see both ends of the spectrum, and everything in between. I was not stating that meerly because everyone uses v8s that it should be that way, I was just wondering if 4 cylinders are such easy horsepower producing, ultimately reliable, gas efficient machines that are easy on a wallet why is there not a bigger following than just the visual aftermarket (ie. everyone wanting to be f&f, ricers, etc). I don't mean to offend any import drivers with that last comment, but you know that is obviously why you have a such a stereotype against you. As I previously stated, I can give credit where credit is due, and if a guy with a 4 cylinder or even a 6 or Bejus forbid a 3 cylinder metro can work on his own car and make it fast... then kudos and congrats for he has achieved his goal. Was just a question, pearlsport.

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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

Exactly, the STI is good at EVERYTHING, your V8's are not good for **** but going in a straight line.. go to a autocross sometime, whos winning those? all the 4 banger miatas and mx3's and proteges and such, go to the real track? A 4 banger will kill you in the turns, go to a rally event? dont even try

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ORIGINAL: 98LS1

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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

Exactly, the STI is good at EVERYTHING, your V8's are not good for **** but going in a straight line.. go to a autocross sometime, whos winning those? all the 4 banger miatas and mx3's and proteges and such, go to the real track? A 4 banger will kill you in the turns, go to a rally event? dont even try

I have 4" wheels on the front of my car. I don't turn it. I don't care to turn it. I don't drift it. I drag race it.

Again, classic import guy, "I'll kill you in the twisties!"

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ORIGINAL: 98LS1

Whoopty do, there's a mid 9 second 4 banger. Hold on to your hat, cause there's millions of mid 9 second v8's. It's just easier, and cheaper to build a v8.

And no, there's no replacement for displacement. Let me make this simple, where even you can understand it.

Small motor + boost = fast

Big motor + boost = faster

The EVO's and STi's are not fast....they're made to turn, and they just happen to be decently quick in a straight line.

I bet you think since it's AWD it can outlaunch anything too, right?

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ORIGINAL: 2001 GT

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Yeah and your totally full of **** if you think a stock turbo eclipse of any year is gonna run 12s. Let me guess "well I raced this guy that had a 12 second car and beat him".

Ahh, 12's are pretty easy, the fastest stock turbo guys run mid 11's on the stock turbo (14b).

Read up, look under 14b turbo. Guess this shows how knowledgeable you are. I'll continue on w/ your inane post anyways....
eclipse times

Here, Heres a nice vid. Lets see how many extensive mods this 4 cylinder had to have to run a low 12. I'm sure it needed an engine swap and 10 grand cause imports suck!!

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I ran 12.39 @ 112.66 with my 14b (stock turbo) @ 18psi on 93 octane pump during the 2004 Forced Performance Shootout. No port work of any kind, stock bottom(pistons & all), stock head, stock cams, stock exhaust manny, stock intake manny, stock fuel pump(re-wire), stock 450's. go fast goodies-FMIC & BOV, downpipe & exhaust, MBC, MAF-T & 3.5 GM Maf(blow-by setup), homemade cold air intake.

Well that can't be right, hes lying. Imports suck, buy a vette you pansy
stock turbo versus vette

must be staged??

12.1 run

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
I have never seen a 4cyl that simply "turned up the turbo" and went from a mild street ride to a 10 second monster. And even in my realitvly mild ride, racing anyone thats EVER asked to over the past 2 years, I have NEVER lost a race to anything but a V8. That's gotta say something. And most were highway rolls.

and i've never lost to a mustang, WTF's your point??? There is more in the world then just your town.
The evos already gone 10.9 on the stock turbo. No he didn't just crank up the boost to get there. Its impressive nonetheless.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6Cheesefrog has thousands upon thousands of dollars into a civic that when he has racefuel and slicks on he can run a high 10. And if you have ever heard that car run it is definatly not a smooth idling grocery getter. Streetable means your not pumping the gas at the light to keep it running, it acutally has an INTERIOR, and doesn't beat you to ****. It also means you can race from a stop with a set of tires that lets you turn a full circle in less than 1000 feet.

I didn't once mention hondas. Hell, you can buy ams's evo package and get high 9's low 10's and still drive it everyday.
Hell, heres the tapps auto dailydriver. You don't have to strip anything out of the interior, quit hanging out w/ riceboys. The cams are usually very mild being a turbocharged application, espcially if you're used to N/A v-8's. Plus there driving on actual street tires you can drive in the rain. Not some slick w/ a cut down it. 10's from a car that you can drive everyday, looks stock, and don't change out the tires. Not too bad.
10.0 run

Hell, sheps car run some great times considering it has stock block and crank, all stock body, no lexan, and was running high 8's on street tires last year w/ the old setup. It was a sometimes "daily driver" before the last year or two.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6 Don't sit here and talk **** like 7 second DSMs running with stock blocks and rotating assemblys. Hell, back in 99 that shop in maine had the worlds fastest and it was totally redone, and only running low 9s.

There best times 7.3
7.5 run
Not bad for a 2.0 liter 4 banger

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6And we havent even gotten into acutally looking at the dyno curves yet. Why don't you take a look at cheesefrog's dyno, if he acutally puts it out. I got a 20 that says his dyno looks like a huge rollercoaster. In everyday low RPM driving it makes nothing until you see this huge boost at 5500 RPM. What good does that do on street tires. You ever seen the race between him and that viper? They are running like 40 MPH and he still cannot hook up.

I'm not cheesefrog, I can't stand hondas, I don't drive FWD cars. End of story

I love how they always try to bring hondas into the arguement. I'm not bringing in the 4th gen vettes or 80 camaros running 15's and 16's into the arguement. I'm not souping up grandmas cars, I'm talking turbocharged rwd/awd cars from the factory.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Plain and simple, you can go out and spend 10K on a 4cyl and make it a fast machine, but its gonna be a bitch to drive, and it isn't gonna have half the balls on the street that it does on the track. Its gonna be doggy unless you want to run around reving the **** out of it all the time.

On the other hand, I could spend 10K on a foxbody, and have a totally streetable grocery getter, that is 100 percent reialble until I crack the bottle open. Then it runs 10s in full street trim. And while your wasting all of that 10K on the motor/turbo, I already have a new rearend and transmission, and no worries, on top of the shiny new powerplant.

Get over it. Like I said before, give me a set amount of money to spend and the v8 wins, and it does so in more streetable, comfortable fashion.

and... You could do the same thing to a dsm. Go all out "high class" w/ 2.3 stroker and FP3065 or gt35r plus shep tranny if you wanted for 10 grand. Run 10's, get off the track and NOT HAVE TO SWITCH TIRES, then drive home, still have very little turbo lag. . The only really unstreetable thing you would have to deal w/ is you would have to either turn down the boost while not running race gas or just run water/meth/propane injection and some good tuning.

That was my whole point, not that a 4 cylinder is better to mod then a v8. That'd be a retarded statement. But that blanket statements like "any v-8 will be faster then any 4cylinder w/ x amount of dollars" is total BS. Theres good v-8s to build up, there are some that are quite weak w/out extensive work. Same w/ 4 bangers. I'm just sick of the kids in their dads v6 or v8 mustang saying there faster because they have more cylinders and i need 10 grand and a swap cause thats what they saw on F&F. Mod what you want, just don't be a clueless asshat. I say the same thing to ricers when im in my stang and they tell me "shoulda brought a civic or v-8s get bad gas mileage".

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ORIGINAL: Joe99es

V8's are just good in straightline performance, thats it.. thats why all you guys ever talk about is the dragstrip.. Whatever happened to the real track, or autocross or rally events.. you know, were a balanced car and good handling come into play too, not just a front heavy screamer thats good in a straight line.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6

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ORIGINAL: 2001 GT

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Yeah and your totally full of **** if you think a stock turbo eclipse of any year is gonna run 12s. Let me guess "well I raced this guy that had a 12 second car and beat him".

Ahh, 12's are pretty easy, the fastest stock turbo guys run mid 11's on the stock turbo (14b).

Read up, look under 14b turbo. Guess this shows how knowledgeable you are. I'll continue on w/ your inane post anyways....
eclipse times

Here, Heres a nice vid. Lets see how many extensive mods this 4 cylinder had to have to run a low 12. I'm sure it needed an engine swap and 10 grand cause imports suck!!

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I ran 12.39 @ 112.66 with my 14b (stock turbo) @ 18psi on 93 octane pump during the 2004 Forced Performance Shootout. No port work of any kind, stock bottom(pistons & all), stock head, stock cams, stock exhaust manny, stock intake manny, stock fuel pump(re-wire), stock 450's. go fast goodies-FMIC & BOV, downpipe & exhaust, MBC, MAF-T & 3.5 GM Maf(blow-by setup), homemade cold air intake.

Well that can't be right, hes lying. Imports suck, buy a vette you pansy
stock turbo versus vette

must be staged??

12.1 run

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
I have never seen a 4cyl that simply "turned up the turbo" and went from a mild street ride to a 10 second monster. And even in my realitvly mild ride, racing anyone thats EVER asked to over the past 2 years, I have NEVER lost a race to anything but a V8. That's gotta say something. And most were highway rolls.

and i've never lost to a mustang, WTF's your point??? There is more in the world then just your town.
The evos already gone 10.9 on the stock turbo. No he didn't just crank up the boost to get there. Its impressive nonetheless.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6Cheesefrog has thousands upon thousands of dollars into a civic that when he has racefuel and slicks on he can run a high 10. And if you have ever heard that car run it is definatly not a smooth idling grocery getter. Streetable means your not pumping the gas at the light to keep it running, it acutally has an INTERIOR, and doesn't beat you to ****. It also means you can race from a stop with a set of tires that lets you turn a full circle in less than 1000 feet.

I didn't once mention hondas. Hell, you can buy ams's evo package and get high 9's low 10's and still drive it everyday.
Hell, heres the tapps auto dailydriver. You don't have to strip anything out of the interior, quit hanging out w/ riceboys. The cams are usually very mild being a turbocharged application, espcially if you're used to N/A v-8's. Plus there driving on actual street tires you can drive in the rain. Not some slick w/ a cut down it. 10's from a car that you can drive everyday, looks stock, and don't change out the tires. Not too bad.
10.0 run

Hell, sheps car run some great times considering it has stock block and crank, all stock body, no lexan, and was running high 8's on street tires last year w/ the old setup. It was a sometimes "daily driver" before the last year or two.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6 Don't sit here and talk **** like 7 second DSMs running with stock blocks and rotating assemblys. Hell, back in 99 that shop in maine had the worlds fastest and it was totally redone, and only running low 9s.

There best times 7.3
7.5 run
Not bad for a 2.0 liter 4 banger

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6And we havent even gotten into acutally looking at the dyno curves yet. Why don't you take a look at cheesefrog's dyno, if he acutally puts it out. I got a 20 that says his dyno looks like a huge rollercoaster. In everyday low RPM driving it makes nothing until you see this huge boost at 5500 RPM. What good does that do on street tires. You ever seen the race between him and that viper? They are running like 40 MPH and he still cannot hook up.

I'm not cheesefrog, I can't stand hondas, I don't drive FWD cars. End of story

I love how they always try to bring hondas into the arguement. I'm not bringing in the 4th gen vettes or 80 camaros running 15's and 16's into the arguement. I'm not souping up grandmas cars, I'm talking turbocharged rwd/awd cars from the factory.

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Plain and simple, you can go out and spend 10K on a 4cyl and make it a fast machine, but its gonna be a bitch to drive, and it isn't gonna have half the balls on the street that it does on the track. Its gonna be doggy unless you want to run around reving the **** out of it all the time.

On the other hand, I could spend 10K on a foxbody, and have a totally streetable grocery getter, that is 100 percent reialble until I crack the bottle open. Then it runs 10s in full street trim. And while your wasting all of that 10K on the motor/turbo, I already have a new rearend and transmission, and no worries, on top of the shiny new powerplant.

Get over it. Like I said before, give me a set amount of money to spend and the v8 wins, and it does so in more streetable, comfortable fashion.

and... You could do the same thing to a dsm. Go all out "high class" w/ 2.3 stroker and FP3065 or gt35r plus shep tranny if you wanted for 10 grand. Run 10's, get off the track and NOT HAVE TO SWITCH TIRES, then drive home, still have very little turbo lag. . The only really unstreetable thing you would have to deal w/ is you would have to either turn down the boost while not running race gas or just run water/meth/propane injection and some good tuning.

That was my whole point, not that a 4 cylinder is better to mod then a v8. That'd be a retarded statement. But that blanket statements like "any v-8 will be faster then any 4cylinder w/ x amount of dollars" is total BS. Theres good v-8s to build up, there are some that are quite weak w/out extensive work. Same w/ 4 bangers. I'm just sick of the kids in their dads v6 or v8 mustang saying there faster because they have more cylinders and i need 10 grand and a swap cause thats what they saw on F&F. Mod what you want, just don't be a clueless asshat. I say the same thing to ricers when im in my stang and they tell me "shoulda brought a civic or v-8s get bad gas mileage".

I am glad that you can give me a bunch of videos and websites saying that they are running xx.xx times with xx mods. No pictures, no proof. BTW, my stock n/a GT ran a 11.91@20,000 MPH. Its on a web site, it must be true.

I have seen turbo swapped eclipse's only run door to door with stage ONE SRT-4s (admittedly from a roll), and that definatly isn't a 12 second car. I'm, gonna have to try to find that video, it was a pretty good one.

Your not gonna sit here and tell me that stock trans eclipse are going to take getting the **** launched out of them either. I have seen the results of beating on a stock trans eclipse, and that was on stock motor. (hell one was even a N/A motor).

BTW, after a google search, every one of the cars you mentioned under the 10 second mark is running a competely gutted interior, unstreetable setup, converted to RWD. This also means that they must have relocated the engine so it runs front to back (no way a FWD trans setup is gonna work with the slicks launches they are doing) huge full on drag slicks (not a 10.5 tire like you can get away with on the street), No A/C, No power steering, nothing. The car isn't good for anything but the track. And the Brent guy is NOT running a stock bottom end, and the block itself is also reinforced. Do a google search on "Brent Rau modifications to car" and see for yourself.

You do realise that a Fox or even a modular can be running in the 9s/8s and still pull out of the track and drive off right?? And these are by no means the "fastest" of the american V8 cars. Try that on Brent's car, ROFL.

I am not saying that a import cannot be fast, I am saying that pound for pound/dollar for dollar V8s are FASTER. They are always gonna be faster. Get over it.

Any car that was acutally setup to be a "sports car" that has a v8 in it can be made faster for cheaper than a 4cyl. You mentioned 80s camaros. Your actually gonna doubt the potential of a chevy with a 350 in it? Do you realise what it takes to rebuild a 350 with a forged bottom end and a good set of heads? Not much. ****, it shouldn't, there are only about 500,000,000 of em running around on the street today.

Give it up. I'm glad that somebody with a full sponsership, and all of the time and money to competly rebuild a car from the ground up can run a low 7. However, people are already doing that in almost every type of V8 american sports car ON THEIR OWN (no sponsors), and they don't have to gut the interior or run a competely different setup to do so (awd converted to RWD etc).

BTW, the reason that most V8 owners are "down" on 4cyl owners, is because most of them are ignorant ****s running around in stock motor non turbo econoboxes with a 20 foot wing and some bling bling wheels on it, competely conviced that they are gonna stomp everything in sight. I cannot count the number of times I have been "reved on" and had **** talked to. People in base model imports acutally thinking they are gonna run with even a stock GT (which in itself is pretty slow).

You sit there and talk about this car running XX.XX with such and such mods, hell you realise that there is a N/A 4.6L car running TENS right? No N20, no blower. And other than suspension mods he only has about 4 grand more in his car than I do in mine (mod's wise). Hell its only making another 60 or so RWHP. Point being is that an average joe can acutally get it done.

Seriously, if 4cyl are so great and so easy to modify, what car are you currently driving again? Whoops, kinda kicks the pants outta your argument don't it??? :)

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ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6

I am glad that you can give me a bunch of videos and websites saying that they are running xx.xx times with xx mods. No pictures, no proof. BTW, my stock n/a GT ran a 11.91@20,000 MPH. Its on a web site, it must be true.

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BTW, after a google search, every one of the cars you mentioned under the 10 second mark is running a competely gutted interior, unstreetable setup, converted to RWD.

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Seriously, if 4cyl are so great and so easy to modify, what car are you currently driving again? Whoops, kinda kicks the pants outta your argument don't it??? :)