Hey guys, I have been doing a bit of research and have decided to put on some subframe connectors, a k-member brace, and a strut tower brace. I have found a pretty good deal on a Kenny Brown chassis support kit and am pretty much sold on it, but I have some questions and concerns.
First off, does anyone have one of these kits, or any of the components? If so, how do you like it and how hard was the install. One of my concerns is ground clearance. The lowest point of my car is the double hump cross member with it being 4 1/2" from the ground and I manage to nail it on most speed bumps. However the subframe measures about 6 1/2" to 7 1/2" clearance, and I am concerned that by the time I add the subframe connectors, that it will put my car too low to clear any obsticals. Does anyone have the dimensions of the subframe connector to see how much clearance I might lose?
My next question is the strut tower brace. So far everything that I have found states that you will have to drill into the strut towers to attach it, and that there are already holes in the firewall to bolt it to. I found that there are no holes for it in my firewall so is this just a 5.0 thing? I do not know how comfortable I am at drilling through the firewall, any advice on what to be aware of? I am also concerned about the clearance of this as well, and how it will fit within the engine compartment.
Also on the K-member brace, does it interfear with the oil pan much? From the looks of it I don't think there will be any clearance problems, but it looks like it might go right across the drain plug and prohibit oil changes.
Lastly do you guys think this would be worth while on a 4 cylinder? I just put on a rear sway bar and really liked the results, so I would like to take the next step. I would say that subframe connectors are for sure, but do not know if the k-member brace or strut tower brace are worth it. For obvious reasons I do not plan on racing so it would just be my daily driver.
I would appreciate your input and experience with these components, Kenny Brown or other manufacturers. Thanks!
Posts: 1097
Joined: 7/17/2007 From: Salt Lake City Utah Status: offline
For A Daily Driver Probably not, Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
For me My Stangs becoming a Drift Car so these products are a MUST but for a daily? not sure its worth the time and money for all of them, Subframes a would do, but the others unless you've got alot of body sway probably not worth it
Add a rear sway bar, you'll **** yourself at the difference
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ORIGINAL: 7_Zero I just put on a rear sway bar and really liked the results, so I would like to take the next step.
I think MG Man has a strut tower brace so he might chime in about that. But I would add the subframe connectors and go from there. Like Stang2.3 stated, this is your DD so there shouldn't be too much need for all the items you want.
For A Daily Driver Probably not, Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
Are you sure you drive a fox car? I've driven thunderbirds and mustangs, and they are the most flexible cars in existance. I don't want to sound like a dick here, but you probably don't have much experience with more performance oriented cars, such as Vettes, f-bodies, Porsche and whatnot, to really compair how the body flex's.
Posts: 857
Joined: 1/5/2007 From: Indianapolis Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: TBird232ci
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ORIGINAL: Stang2.3
For A Daily Driver Probably not, Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
Are you sure you drive a fox car? I've driven thunderbirds and mustangs, and they are the most flexible cars in existance. I don't want to sound like a dick here, but you probably don't have much experience with more performance oriented cars, such as Vettes, f-bodies, Porsche and whatnot, to really compair how the body flex's.
Do it all, every bit of it.
Agreed. My car flexes more than anything I've ever driven or ridden in. Including convertibles. And I've ridden in some pretty bad cars.
Posts: 1097
Joined: 7/17/2007 From: Salt Lake City Utah Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: TBird232ci
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ORIGINAL: Stang2.3
For A Daily Driver Probably not, Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
Are you sure you drive a fox car? I've driven thunderbirds and mustangs, and they are the most flexible cars in existance. I don't want to sound like a dick here, but you probably don't have much experience with more performance oriented cars, such as Vettes, f-bodies, Porsche and whatnot, to really compair how the body flex's.
Do it all, every bit of it.
I'm Very Capable of Driving "performance Oriented Cars" thanks, Notice i said "overwhelming" Yes these Foxs Flex like paper in the wind, but are still drivable whereas he's just using this for a DD and Not Performance Oriented or "spirited Driving" All those mods will be put to waste. Rear Sway Bar, Subframe Connectors and maybe a Strut Brace will be MORE than enough for the Daily Driven Stang.. He Has not Mentioned a Turbo Swap, Or V8 Swap therefore if he wants a Go-Kart he can go ahead and install them, Just remeber that OVERLY STIFF DOESN'T MAKE A DAILY DRIVER ENJOYABLE TO DRIVE DAILY
Posts: 857
Joined: 1/5/2007 From: Indianapolis Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Stang2.3
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ORIGINAL: TBird232ci
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ORIGINAL: Stang2.3
For A Daily Driver Probably not, Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
Are you sure you drive a fox car? I've driven thunderbirds and mustangs, and they are the most flexible cars in existance. I don't want to sound like a dick here, but you probably don't have much experience with more performance oriented cars, such as Vettes, f-bodies, Porsche and whatnot, to really compair how the body flex's.
Do it all, every bit of it.
I'm Very Capable of Driving "performance Oriented Cars" thanks, Notice i said "overwhelming" Yes these Foxs Flex like paper in the wind, but are still drivable whereas he's just using this for a DD and Not Performance Oriented or "spirited Driving" All those mods will be put to waste. Rear Sway Bar, Subframe Connectors and maybe a Strut Brace will be MORE than enough for the Daily Driven Stang.. He Has not Mentioned a Turbo Swap, Or V8 Swap therefore if he wants a Go-Kart he can go ahead and install them, Just remeber that OVERLY STIFF DOESN'T MAKE A DAILY DRIVER ENJOYABLE TO DRIVE DAILY
I don't think he wants just a daily driver. I think, like most of us, he wants a daily driver that he still wants to drive. My car (before I fixed the chassis) was just annoying to drive due to the flex. It felt like the chassis was made of rubber. Now, it's tolerable, but I still plan on getting chassis stiffening after I get new gas tank straps and a radiator. I don't think the car is going to get too stiff with the mods he's planning.
Do you have Over Whelming Amounts of Body Sway and Twist?
I honestly cannot say as I do not have anything to compare it too. As I stated before, I installed a rear sway bar and am pleased with the results and decided that things could only get better from here.
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I don't think he wants just a daily driver. I think, like most of us, he wants a daily driver that he still wants to drive.
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I don't think the car is going to get too stiff with the mods he's planning.
That's exactly what I am aiming for. I love my car and have a blast driving it, although I do not intend to do a swap (unless my engine goes out) I would still like to have fun driving my car.
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Just remeber that OVERLY STIFF DOESN'T MAKE A DAILY DRIVER ENJOYABLE TO DRIVE DAILY
Would these upgrades make the car too stiff? So far everything that I have read everyone says that in addition to better handling it has also smoothed out their ride. They say that since the chassis is stiffer it puts the ride onto the suspension where it is supposed to be. I am like those people who come in wanting top quality for cheap. (Doesn't happen) but I want a smooth comfortable ride, with could control.
I'm Very Capable of Driving "performance Oriented Cars" thanks, Notice i said "overwhelming" Yes these Foxs Flex like paper in the wind, but are still drivable whereas he's just using this for a DD and Not Performance Oriented or "spirited Driving" All those mods will be put to waste. Rear Sway Bar, Subframe Connectors and maybe a Strut Brace will be MORE than enough for the Daily Driven Stang.. He Has not Mentioned a Turbo Swap, Or V8 Swap therefore if he wants a Go-Kart he can go ahead and install them, Just remeber that OVERLY STIFF DOESN'T MAKE A DAILY DRIVER ENJOYABLE TO DRIVE DAILY
Since you decided to get defensive and arrogant, when I tried to put it politely without being offensive, I'll step on your toes a bit.
If you "very capable of driving "performance oriented cars", you would understand that you WANT the body to be as rigid as possible, to allow the suspension to articulate to its fullest potential.
Your ride will actually be more rough, and more harsh with a flexible body, because rather than the springs compressing, and the shocks/struts slowing the compression/rebound, the body will flex, and the obstacle will be felt in the body rather than simply gone over. Seeing as you're more than capable, you should already know this, and I shouldn't have had to explain it.
I've driven a handful of fox mustangs before and after subframe connectors and strut tower braces, and they actually ride BETTER than they did before. Thats because the suspension does its job rather than the body.
Also, you must suck at reading, because the mods he speak of are subframe connectors, a k-member brace, and strut tower brace. You said that subframe connectors and strut tower brace is fine, but the k-member brace isnt? Real bright. I guess you dont realize that my car has one from the factory, but it's too stiff to drive
7_Zero, don't fear that it will be too stiff. You'll be very happy with the feel of the car. When I get more issues ironed out with both of my cars, they will have subframe connectors, k-member brace, strut tower brace and some other odds and ends as I need them. My project car might get a 6pt cage in it for chassis stiffness.
You shouldn't have much issue with your subframe connectors and clearance, unless your car is way too low as it is.
With drilling the firewall, they sell drill stops, where all it is is a collar that slips over the drill bit and locks in place with a set screw, so the bit can't go any deeper than where you set the stop at. That should help prevent any issues with going into the firewall. You may snag some sound deadening, but thats no big deal.
If you liked the results of the rear swaybar, get one from a GT or 5.0 LX for the front. Get poly bushings and poly endlinks. The ride does not suffer at all, and it helps cornering even more so.
Im not too familiar with the K-member brace myself. You may be able to call Kenny Brown, and talk to a salesmen or representative of some sorts, and they could possibly give you measurements so you can see if it would clear.
I can tell you right now, once you do these mods, you'll find out how sloppy the rear suspension is, then want rear lower control arms, and a panhard bar, then you'll want some good springs, then need good shocks and struts for that, and while you're in there, you'll want bigger front brakes...and then you're knee deep into a project. I know this all too well.
Posts: 1097
Joined: 7/17/2007 From: Salt Lake City Utah Status: offline
And i throw the same to you, you must not know how to read NOT ONCE did i say Overly Stiff wasn't Wanted for the performance enthusiest,
Now Personally Tbird i have not installed a K Member Brace so i do not how much they acually do add,
Once i started to dive Deeper into my Eclipse Turbo i added Front and Rear Strut Tower bars, Rear Sway Bar Stock GSX front Sway bar, Coil Overs Bilstien Shocks, (only Dropped 1.75 in front and 1.5 in rear so before you try and blame that) and Daily Driving (pot holes and Road Damage) you could feel ever damn bump in the road, yes when i hit the track it was amazing! i will not deny that. Was it worth it? HELL YES, i was going off the fact that you said this car is my DD and never once was there a mention about Performance Driving,
Now My Performance Oreinted Cars Tbird were ALL FWD Most were Turbo, This is my First RWD that i'm diving into (never put money into my firebird) and Yes this Mustang Flexs THE MOST out of any of my cars,
No i have not Driven Vettes and Porsches and all those High Dollar Cars, But it doesn't take a 90,000 dollar ride to be considered a Performance Vehicle. I was not tryin to step on toes, or say you don't know what your talkin bout, but some people don't offer same courtisey
You shouldn't have much issue with your subframe connectors and clearance, unless your car is way too low as it is.
The car is not low at all, and after putting on 16" rims it rides some what higher, but some how I manage to catch that crossmember on those nasty speedbumps. I just don't want to get subframe connectors welded on just to find out that I am going to high center all the time.
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With drilling the firewall, they sell drill stops, where all it is is a collar that slips over the drill bit and locks in place with a set screw, so the bit can't go any deeper than where you set the stop at. That should help prevent any issues with going into the firewall. You may snag some sound deadening, but thats no big deal.
Do you know about how thick the firewall is? Also, I read somewhere about a pinch weld, and that it is the strongest part to attach the brace to. What is a pinch weld and where is it located?
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If you liked the results of the rear swaybar, get one from a GT or 5.0 LX for the front. Get poly bushings and poly endlinks. The ride does not suffer at all, and it helps cornering even more so
I thought about that when I was pulling the rear swaybar, but it seems that half of the people tend to pull off their front swaybar so I did not know if it was a good idea or not. Also, is the front swaybar different from the stearing stabilizer bar or are they one in the same?
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Once i started to dive Deeper into my Eclipse Turbo...
Stang2.3 I watched your video on your Eclipse, Dang I cannot imagine what would make someone want to do that to your pride and joy. I guess you must have given them a real whoop'n at the track.
And i throw the same to you, you must not know how to read NOT ONCE did i say Overly Stiff wasn't Wanted for the performance enthusiest,
Yes, I know you said that, but a stiff body does not hurt ride quality. The example you provided of your coil overs is a perfect example of stiff springs and struts hurting ride quality, but the body and chassis bracing will actually help the quality, and make it more controlable.
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ORIGINAL: Stang2.3
No i have not Driven Vettes and Porsches and all those High Dollar Cars, But it doesn't take a 90,000 dollar ride to be considered a Performance Vehicle. I was not tryin to step on toes, or say you don't know what your talkin bout, but some people don't offer same courtisey
Well, none of the vehicles I've driven were brand new, nor costed 90,000 dollars. I drove an autocross prepped 924, a few C4 and C5 vettes, many F-bodies, a handful of modded, and stock mustangs, my thunderbirds, and a handful of FWD "performance" cars. I've been in and of many vehicles to be able to compair and contrast.
7_Zero, I'm unsure about the thickenss of the firewall, but the pinchweld is the seam, that goes across the firewall, sticks about 1/2", and I think your brake line runs under it.
People pull the front swaybar off for drag racing, because the thing is a bit heavy, and it allows the suspension to travel more easily. For stability and control, it's a stupid thing to do, but to go straight, it's helpful. The 5.0 swaybar will make a big impact on your initial turn in and the roll stiffness of your car, even if you keep the stock shocks and springs.
As for calling it a steering stabilizer bar, I've never heard that before.
It just wouldn't be the forum if we weren't all arguing.
Unfortunately so true, but it is still nothing compared to what goes on in the other sections.
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...the pinchweld is the seam, that goes across the firewall, sticks about 1/2", and I think your brake line runs under it.
Ok that makes sense, although it is not exactly what I pictured the weld to be. I do not know if this kit will mount to that or not. Is it best to mount directly to it, or will you have the same strength to mount the brace immediately above it?
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The 5.0 swaybar will make a big impact on your initial turn in and the roll stiffness of your car, even if you keep the stock shocks and springs.
Hmm...I think I will have to call the JY and see if they still have it, they only have a couple stangs and parts seem to disappear quite fast from them.
One more question, I found a G-trac brace online the other day and was wondering if this worked with the k-member brace, or if it was basically a 2 point k-member brace. Any thoughts on this?
I took the plunge today and ordered the kit, I appreciate your guys' help in answering my questions. I will update you with my progress. Mainly because I know I will be needing more help.
< Message edited by 7_Zero -- 5/21/2008 12:35:44 PM >
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Kenny Brown Chassis Support Kit - 
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