Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but how exactly does the GT make that much more power with only.6 more liters of displacement and lower compression? Do the V6 heads and cam suck that bad or does two extra cylinders help with more than just the added displacement?
Just a curiosity

Jeff

I would guess heads and c/r. The heads on these new 3V's are the ****.

Did you forget about the extra 2 cylinders?

Doesn't BMW have a 4.0L v8 that makes more power than the gt?

Aren't the 6rs good for 225bhp? and the 4.6 good for 300bhp....

Oh yeah, but that's german doesn't count. [8D]

The C/R on the v6 is higher than the GT. Yeah 3v has gotta help I guess. Mossestang very funny I'm just wondering if apples to apples 2 cylinders is inherently better, ie. would a hypothetical 4.5 V6 be equal to a 4.5 v8? or does spreading out the displacement have an advantage?

210 hp

ORIGINAL: propheadj

The C/R on the v6 is higher than the GT. Yeah 3v has gotta help I guess. Mossestang very funny I'm just wondering if apples to apples 2 cylinders is inherently better, ie. would a hypothetical 4.5 V6 be equal to a 4.5 v8? or does spreading out the displacement have an advantage?


Oh lord, here we go.

ORIGINAL: blueherd02gt

Aren't the 6rs good for 225bhp? and the 4.6 good for 300bhp....


05+ v6 is 210bhp and about 154rwhp
05+ GT is 300bhp and about 260rwhp

ORIGINAL: Rubrignitz

ORIGINAL: propheadj

The C/R on the v6 is higher than the GT. Yeah 3v has gotta help I guess. Mossestang very funny I'm just wondering if apples to apples 2 cylinders is inherently better, ie. would a hypothetical 4.5 V6 be equal to a 4.5 v8? or does spreading out the displacement have an advantage?


Oh lord, here we go.


I'd say we're in trouble

ORIGINAL: propheadj

The C/R on the v6 is higher than the GT. Yeah 3v has gotta help I guess. Mossestang very funny I'm just wondering if apples to apples 2 cylinders is inherently better, ie. would a hypothetical 4.5 V6 be equal to a 4.5 v8? or does spreading out the displacement have an advantage?


Yes spreading the displacement does make a difference. Reving etc. Less rotating mass... shorter stroke.

ORIGINAL: kngdaka


ORIGINAL: Rubrignitz

ORIGINAL: propheadj

The C/R on the v6 is higher than the GT. Yeah 3v has gotta help I guess. Mossestang very funny I'm just wondering if apples to apples 2 cylinders is inherently better, ie. would a hypothetical 4.5 V6 be equal to a 4.5 v8? or does spreading out the displacement have an advantage?


Oh lord, here we go.


I'd say we're in trouble


Forgive my noobishness but...why?

because no one knows how to explain this but what to think they do[8D]

yes it does have an advantage, but the 4.6 is also more efficient the way everything works together, and yeah, damn bimmers have a sick new V8

I got to thinking.. I had a 4.3 V6 stock had more power than a 305 V8.. Thats chebbies.. if that has anything to do with this.. Its all in the motor.. If its a good motor or a sucky motor.. Did that make any sense or do anything to do with this??

That has everything to do with it. H302 Saleen w/ forged internals - 580 hp. Z51 vette 7L with supercharger and 600 hp. hmmmmm....

I don't really understand it either but after owning both I can tell you that there is a huge difference.

And yeah that lower rotating mass and shorter stroke makes ita screamer. small displacement, high-flow and FI, great combo.

Hard to believe the '05 and up V6 has very close numbers to the 5.0 Mustang GT's.

The S197 V6's DONT have higher compression ratio than GT's.
V6 = 9.7:1 CR
V8 = 9.8:1 CR

ORIGINAL: MexGT

The S197 V6's DONT have higher compression ratio than GT's.
V6 = 9.7:1 CR
V8 = 9.8:1 CR





THANK YOU finally someone set it straight.

The BMW M5 has a 5.0L V8 and it pushes 500hp, its just engineering skills, Ford hasn't quite picked up on it yet, but mustangs are not meant to be state of the art

Gonna try to explain something here..but bear with me. Been a long hard week and I am pretty wiped out and tired so things may noot be as clear as I would like.. SO don't crucify me if I get dislexic or anything..

Two reasons..

One.. stroke is where the power is made. The more total distance the engine has to push down on the piston, the more ability that engine has to make that power. So, by having 2 more cylinders the total amount of stroke available to the V8 is more than that of the V6. The same would be true if you had a 4.6 v6 and a 4.6 v8. All other things being equal, the v8 will make more power.

Two.. the heads. Truth be told, an engine makes absolutely no horsepower or torque at all. Not a single ft/lb or horsepower. All the engine does is pump air. What makes the power is the fuel burning. The better the engines ability to flow air, the more fuel it can burn during the combustion event, and the more power it can make from that fuel. Better heads, means more airflow... As someone mentioned above, this is how that Vortec 4.3 V6 makes more power than that engine code LQ4 305 V8.

Now obviously, other factorsare going to have a role in this as well.. intake setup, exhaust and about a billion other things... but all things being equal, the above should be spot on.

ORIGINAL: Cal26Stang

The BMW M5 has a 5.0LV10 and it pushes 500hp, its just engineering skills, Ford hasn't quite picked up on it yet, but mustangs are not meant to be state of the art


Fixed....

ORIGINAL: Wishbone

Hard to believe the '05 and up V6 has very close numbers to the 5.0 Mustang GT's.


ya but compare the weight.. prob about 1000 pounds lighter or something.. i can't tell which is faster, my 90 notch(almost all bolt-ons) or my 08 GT(stock)

why no mention of the 3 valves?
And would the different ignition help too?

More cylinders do not equal more horsepower, but stroke does equal horsepower.

However here's the thing the cylinder diamiter CAN change between engines, so a v6 with 33% more stroke than a v8 will have the exact same advantage as the former engine geometrically speaking.

Anyway if you'll notice the heads on the v8 are beautiful, just look at them:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/2006_Ford_Mustang_GT_engine.jpg/800px-2006_Ford_Mustang_GT_engine.jpg

Their cross section takes up the ENTIRE top of the engine:

http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/magazine/images/2006fordmustangv6ponypackage/2006FordMustangV6PonyPackageV6Engine01.jpg

The v6 heads on the other hand you'll notice take up HALF or less as much space on the engine even though that shouldn't happen.

I's like downgrading from a 100mm air intake to a 50mm intake for only changing the engine displacement 15%, terrible. Really just looking at the two you notice how bad things are, and that's not even getting to the smaller throtle body etc.

I am pretty sure the bore in the v6 motor is larger than the gt. V6 uses a shorter rod and gt uses a longer rod with inreased rod angularity. More angle=more force pushing down= more power. There is one design theory right there. Two more cylinders = 2 more firing down creating more power/tq.

ORIGINAL: Wishbone

Hard to believe the '05 and up V6 has very close numbers to the 5.0 Mustang GT's.


how is that even a real comparison? the 5.0 has been out forever. if you want to compare a little bit put a little bit of new technology into a 5.0 and see how the horsepower ratings change

Just spitballing here, but doesn't an increased number of cylinders allow you to use a cam (or cams) with a more aggressive valve timing as well? I'm thinking that the number of bangs per revolution is helping smooth out any uneveness from a wider overlap and/or higher lift....

screw BMW. I spent two and a half years in Germany. BMW is not that great of a car. Trust me. We only get the premium BMW's in the states. But, go to germany and you will see BMW's like you would a taurus.

local://upfiles/90468/5B2641FFEEAE41C69197C209FA93E447.jpg

@ very different engines. 3v vs 2v, 2 extra cylinders, etc.

Also, they purposefully kept the v6 at 210hp. Just taking off the muffler adds 10rwhp. They do this not to cannibalize GT sales, along with not adding duals :P

The Cliff's Notes version is that the 4.6 breathes that much better. The full, in-detailexplanation would probably fill a book. Everything in the intake tract matters, down to the cross-section area and actual shape of the runners and the various bends taken. Head port design, valve curtain area, mixture swirl and tumble in the cylinder, piston design, cam profiles, every exhaust tract design consideration that you can think of (plus a few) . . .

You should find that torque comparisons between the 4.0 and the 4.6 are more in line with the displacements. IOW, much closer to 15% apart than the HP numbers are.

By itself, stroke is NOT responsible for HP. Only that it's an easy way to add a significant amount of displacement, and it's the extra displacement that makes the extra power. I'd fully expect that if Ford had given the 4.6L a slightly bigger bore and a slightly shorter stroke (and held the displacement at 4.6L) it would be making even more power in OE NA form. But large bore/short stroke engines are typically more difficult to get certified with respect to emissions, so it's extremely doubtful that you'll ever again see anything like the 4.00" bore / 2.87" stroke (101.6 x 72.9 metric dimensions) that was the pushrod 289 displacement specs.

Edit: Anybody whose curiosity has beenawakened by anything in this whole thread might want to chase down any number of books concerning engine design written by David Vizard.


Norm

So the end of the story is .... get a V8:)

More info on the matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pushrod

ORIGINAL: rcj2000

ORIGINAL: blueherd02gt

Aren't the 6rs good for 225bhp? and the 4.6 good for 300bhp....


05+ v6 is 210bhp and about 154rwhp
05+ GT is 300bhp and about 260rwhp

that would be cool and all but too bad the 6 doesnt loose 56hp from the crank to the wheels. it closer to 175

So, just taking the mufflers off of a V6, 2V, gains 10 rwhp? Damn, talk about a torque monster:eek:

Hence why my license plates say "V6 HAHA"[8D]

ORIGINAL: MustangFan45

screw BMW. I spent two and a half years in Germany. BMW is not that great of a car. Trust me. We only get the premium BMW's in the states. But, go to germany and you will see BMW's like you would a taurus.

local://upfiles/90468/5B2641FFEEAE41C69197C209FA93E447.jpg


Maybe, just maybe because they are made there and they don't cost as much as the "premium" American counterparts....:eek:

V-6s' are pretty Stout.