RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus money...
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/14/2008 7:32:52 PM
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Hot70Mach1
Posts: 278
Joined: 5/22/2006
From: Orlando, Flawda
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Derf00
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hot70Mach1
thanks for that correction.
also the fact that the government is giving us money to put into the economy is actually the best way to combat a recession,
to combat a recession the government has to increase government spend on things like public works or military spending. but in todays government where we are seeing huge deficits giving money to the people to spend will greatly help because these purchases will incur taxes for state and local government. helping fun our local economies.
intheory it should work out wonderfully as long as the people spend. the issue the situation faces now is that the marginal propensity to consume is at a record low which means people are spending less and saving more.
saving does not help using the effect money multiplier effect. the only thing it does is allow banks to increase excess reserves and allow for more lending and investment.
but if people arent willing to spend then theres no reason for investment or lending.
BE GREED AMERICANS.
and make sure you buy American. thats a big deal.
all apple computers are built in japan so american dosent see GDP increase.
dodge rams are built in mexico. so we dont see a GDP increase.
Apple processors are intel, US made, where the heck do you get Japan?? China or Mexico more like it.
Ford Mustang is built in MEXICO
The reason there is a deficit and a recession is that the government has OVERspent on stupid stuff like subsidizes of certain industries like Corn where they pay farmers not to grow corn or to start growing corn so they can push their Ethanol directives. The government controls the price of corn...PERIOD. That's one example.
Foreign trade as in a HUGE (MULTI-BILLION dollar trade deficit EVERY year)...good god the government is a bunch of idiots. Why do you think our stuff is so expensive oversease (like cars that get shipped to China or Japan) It has nothing to do with "their government restrictions on pollution" that's our government PR mill. It has to do with the fact they are allowed to tax the begeezus out of our US made products to the point the foreign consumer does not want to purchase american made because it costs so much more that without any significant benefits. In turn we give them tax breaks or don't even bother to charge them for shipping their stuff to us which makes our US stuff seem hella expensive..why? Because we demand $15-20 an hour to live even remotely decent as far as the average consumer is concerned.
Where do you think our government got the billions of dollars for the tax stimulus? Credit Card, as in a temporary loan from China against our trade deficit with them. What do you think it's going to cost our government (meaning you and I the consumer) to pay it back? Lower import taxes to China to ship their crap here. What do you think that's going to do to our US dollar overseas and our domestic prices? You got it, weaker dollar, our shiz goes up in price, china's crap stays cheap and wally world keeps bringing in billions of dollars all the while paying it's employees squat.
true intel is american.
but where is the apple computer assembled?
Japan. there fore they reap the GDP benefit.
also some mexican parts are on the mustang. like the tremec. but i dont think the final assembly line is in mexico. which is where the GDP counts
Also your missing the fundamental point. who cares if we are borrowing money from china.
yah itll add to the deficit. but whats china going to do about it? nothing.
with that said. the economy will not recover from this kinda economic withdrawl for about five years is the government dosent do anything.
heres an idea. why dont we cut out all that darn transfer payment nonsense and then we wont have to worry about the trade deficit or budget deficits.
we got into this mess because clinton allowed for variable rate interest and the expansion of transfer payments without reliable income.
do you know how the depression of 1930 started? the stock brokers let people borrow money to buy stock. and then started calling back on those loans. which caused the economy to crash.
kinda like all these foreclosures and the recesion.
the point is the moment stagflation hits hard we are screwed for the next five years. when china wants their money what are they going to do. demand it? or what. what is china going to do. wage war? we would crush them in an instant. and they know that. and since they know that they are not going to demand their money.
< Message edited by Hot70Mach1 -- 5/14/2008 8:05:03 PM >
_____________________________
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/14/2008 8:10:34 PM
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honeygoldcoupe
Posts: 702
Joined: 10/18/2007
Status: online
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Does anyone else find it ironic that we, of all people, are discussing how to stimulate the economy. We are the posterboys of economic stimulus...we are classic Mustang owners. Our cars:
1. Can only get more than about 17 mpg when they are on the back of a tow truck.
2. Generally are happy burning only the most expensive grade of fuel.
3. Are bottomless pits, swallowing parts the way a black hole swallows entire galaxies.
4. Cause us to buy the best internet connections to get a moderately usable speed on Mustang Forums.
5. Require the purchase of all types of tools useless for anything but working on the Stang.
6. Keep dozens (hundreds?) of classic Mustang supply houses in business.
7. And finally, having purchased a car which does all the above...what do we oftentimes do? Buy another one of course!
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/15/2008 7:10:47 AM
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JapanGT
Posts: 169
Joined: 8/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Waffles
The point of this stimulus is to SPEND that money. Saving only goes so far anyway. People learned that the hard way in the GREAT DEPRESSION.
And don't tell Americans what they need to do when you're not even in this Country. You mention the habit of spending what you don't have has put the WORLD into depression... fine. Then don't point your finger at the US when making a statement that applies to the WORLD. I could say something about Japan torturing US POWs in WWII, and MITSUBISHI forcing US POWs to work as slave labor in their factories during the war, but I won't step off your high horse. Asia is not perfect, and without the US to buy all your crap, your economy would fail. Want us to save and not spend? Find another country to sponsor your low wage factory jobs, and then come back with an argument about us saving.
So... YOU ARE WELCOME.
And I get tired of people blaming bush. Pull that **** for Iraq, if you must, but Clinton had this economy in a downward spiral when he was leaving office. Clinton stepped into a booming economy, thanks to Sr., and when he left things were on a serious fall from Grace. People like to blame Bush for the problems with the economy, and while certain things can be attributed to his administration, but this was on it way when he stepped up, and 9/11 Didn't help.
As for people still saying their accountants are saying it's coming out of next years taxes... Read the original post. Thats what this thread is ABOUT.
I am no economist, but spending your way of the brink of a recession has never worked. It's spending
that increases inflation, which when it gets out of hand generally leads to recession. But my comments
we not meant to offend, and maybe I should have added some smiley’s....
As far as pointing fingers, in the case I quoted, it is factual. The sub prime issue in the US has had a huge global
effect, pushing economies in many countries to the brink of recession. I can thank the US for my mortgages being
9.5% back in OZ, because so many banks around the world lost so much money, in the US sub prime mess.
As for the Japanese, yes there were atrocities, but hey, the US is no angel on the global stage. Who trained Bin Laden?
Who was buddy buddy with Sadam when he was fighting Iran? So yes, we humans can be bastards and it's
nothing to do with where we come from. It simply there are good and evil people and when evil people run a country
evil deeds are done.
Finally, my reference to Bush was meant to be a joke.
Jav
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/15/2008 7:39:17 AM
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mustdoc
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/10/2007
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There are a lot of informed opinions being put forth on this topic. Many, IMO, are on target. But it is VERY EASY to miss some essential points if there is not a common body of knowledge and facts, upon which, we draw upon.
1. We are in an economic slowdown not a recession (by standard definition).
2. This economic stimulus package is classic Keynesian economics (e.g. named after famous economist John Maynard Keynes). Look it up if you need more background.
3. This is, in essence, a short term tax cut for those who qualify and is designed to put $ in the hands of those will spend (i.e. lower and middle income brackets). Since these income brackets tend to spend instead of save it should stimulate the economy in the short term.
4. A better and less expensive plan would have been to give middle and lower income people a tax-cut. Instead, the politicians are being political and want to receive recognition for this so they spent MILLIONS to print and mail out "stimulus checks"... a tax cut would have been wiser with our tax dollars but they all want to get re-elected.
As for the overall economy, the US is in terrible shape.
While core inflation is not that bad, food and fuel are really high which hits us hard on a daily basis, especially rural folks who drive a lot for their jobs and truckers. After a decade of being cheap, even clothing costs are increasing.
It is hard to get loans because of the poor risk management of the Billionaire Wall Street big boys - too lengthy a discussion for this forum. Bottom line, the Banking liquidity crisis and mortgage problems have had a negative influence on our econmy.
On the international front, because of our 9+ trillion dollar debt the dollar is no longer the valued currency it once was and the dollar has sunk. {I am a strong fiscal conservative so I and other conservatives say - thank you Mr. Bush and Republican congress - you dips were in the majority and squandered a projected surplus and added to the debt by spending like drunken sailors from 2001 thru 2006 ("Deficits don't matter" - Dick Cheny quote that all economists could not believe was uttered.)}. Since we have a huge trade deficit (we buy more than we sell abroad) that means that our VERY WEAK dollar does not go as far internationally, making us poorer by the day.
Now adding to this insanity, Bush is buying oil at record high prices for the strategic petroleum reserve - this means less oil for our consumption (decreases supply and increases price) - the only explanation that makes sense is that he plans to attack Iran and, if that happens, world oil supplies will drop and prices will jump even higher. I agree with the majority - this administration is the worst we have seen for this country in decades... maybe ever. True fiscal conservatives have for many years now called Bush an "Imposter" conservative (See Bruce Bartlett's book - Bruce worked for Reagan). I am not a Democrat - I am a conservative on many, if not most, issues. But Bush's fiscal policies and foreign policy (which has spent us into oblivion) have been a complete disaster. For crying out loud, he has the lowest approval rating in the entire history of the Gallop poll - lower than Nixon!
BTW, Ron Paul is absolutely correct on so many economic issues - before you dismiss him, you should give him a serious listen. I don't agree with him on everything, but his comments on growing empire and corporate fascism seem to right on target!
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/15/2008 10:44:37 AM
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BAY68_347
Posts: 320
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: saffranciscobayarea
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I have to stand up for Japan.
Please hear me out here...
I used to harbor some genuine resentment towards the Japanese because my grandfather was a Japanese POW in Wake Island for nearly the entire duration of WWII and was treated VERY poorly. But he did beat the odds and survived, even when the majority of his comrades, mostly civilian contractors and a few US Marines, died of starvation, disease, torture and execution.
In 1945 he came home to California damaged, but with a faith in God like nothing else.
When I took the time to read about his story, I learned that he and his buddies had been completely abandoned by the US Government. Wake Island was a US occupied territory with several hundred American civilian contractors and US Marines living there. When the Japanese invaded Wake Island, the men called for backup from the military. The US military sent ships toward the island but as the ships approached, decided to avoid an ugly battle (the Japanese invasion took place on the same day as Pearl Harbor) The argument was that the men on Wake Island had been captured and even though ships were en route to save them, orders came in to abort the mission. Word was sent back to the homeland that the men had fought a heroic battle for Wake Island but had all had been killed.
Nothing could be further from the truth. These few men had been told that ships were en route and fought tooth and nail to stay alive and not be captured. Many were killed but eventually many were taken as POWs.
Nearly four years later, my grandfather was released from captivity to return to America where everyone had forgotten about Wake Island.
And in the meantime the US Gov't had even funded a Hollywood film about Wake Island that showed a completely fictional story (!!!) about the battle for Wake Island and the heroic actions of the military to save the men from the Japanese. It was presented as a true story but was completely untrue.
Now I can understand that maybe the forces were needed back in Pearl Harbor where there were many more lives at stake, but what gets me is the government propaganda and lies they sold to the American people, for profit. And when my grandfather died, the Gov't refused to acknowledge his status as a POW. He did not receive any recognition until my grandmother was in her final year of life and there were only a handful of living POWs from Wake Island. They finally admitted that they had done wrong and offered a small sum of money to the surviving men and spouses. It was pathetic.
It was propaganda at its finest and no worse than anything the Nazis were selling to the German people. It was no worse than the blind patriotism that led the Japanese to follow their Emperor into a war that could not be won without the atomic bomb in their hands.
I have put these things behind me as I have grown older and come to better understand the complex dynamics of war and the Japanese culture, and the dangers of patriotism unchecked. In total war, there are no rules.
Anyone who thinks America is incapable of committing equally evil atrocities as the Axis countries did in WWII needs to spend some time with some unbiased history books. We have a very dark history and the stories in American school textbooks are very selective when it comes to the details. You will never read about this story unless you dig deep into the history of our great country. There are thousands of stories that are not told. The bottom line is that you can't rise to the top of the heap without crushing a few hands on the way up. And don't think for a minute that someday in a time of weakness, that the sharks will not be swarming around us.
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Sittin on a dock of the Bay
1968 Coupe
347 Stroker with a carseat in back
328rwhp @ 4800rpm
358rwtq @ 4800rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEILeKdaAwU
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/15/2008 11:23:57 AM
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AV8ForFun
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: Frisco, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BAY68_347
I have to stand up for Japan.
Please hear me out here...
I used to harbor some genuine resentment towards the Japanese because my grandfather was a Japanese POW in Wake Island for nearly the entire duration of WWII and was treated VERY poorly. But he did beat the odds and survived, even when the majority of his comrades, mostly civilian contractors and a few US Marines, died of starvation, disease, torture and execution.
In 1945 he came home to California damaged, but with a faith in God like nothing else.
When I took the time to read about his story, I learned that he and his buddies had been completely abandoned by the US Government. Wake Island was a US occupied territory with several hundred American civilian contractors and US Marines living there. When the Japanese invaded Wake Island, the men called for backup from the military. The US military sent ships toward the island but as the ships approached, decided to avoid an ugly battle (the Japanese invasion took place on the same day as Pearl Harbor) The argument was that the men on Wake Island had been captured and even though ships were en route to save them, orders came in to abort the mission. Word was sent back to the homeland that the men had fought a heroic battle for Wake Island but had all had been killed.
Nothing could be further from the truth. These few men had been told that ships were en route and fought tooth and nail to stay alive and not be captured. Many were killed but eventually many were taken as POWs.
Nearly four years later, my grandfather was released from captivity to return to America where everyone had forgotten about Wake Island.
And in the meantime the US Gov't had even funded a Hollywood film about Wake Island that showed a completely fictional story (!!!) about the battle for Wake Island and the heroic actions of the military to save the men from the Japanese. It was presented as a true story but was completely untrue.
Now I can understand that maybe the forces were needed back in Pearl Harbor where there were many more lives at stake, but what gets me is the government propaganda and lies they sold to the American people, for profit. And when my grandfather died, the Gov't refused to acknowledge his status as a POW. He did not receive any recognition until my grandmother was in her final year of life and there were only a handful of living POWs from Wake Island. They finally admitted that they had done wrong and offered a small sum of money to the surviving men and spouses. It was pathetic.
It was propaganda at its finest and no worse than anything the Nazis were selling to the German people. It was no worse than the blind patriotism that led the Japanese to follow their Emperor into a war that could not be won without the atomic bomb in their hands.
I have put these things behind me as I have grown older and come to better understand the complex dynamics of war and the Japanese culture, and the dangers of patriotism unchecked. In total war, there are no rules.
Anyone who thinks America is incapable of committing equally evil atrocities as the Axis countries did in WWII needs to spend some time with some unbiased history books. We have a very dark history and the stories in American school textbooks are very selective when it comes to the details. You will never read about this story unless you dig deep into the history of our great country. There are thousands of stories that are not told. The bottom line is that you can't rise to the top of the heap without crushing a few hands on the way up. And don't think for a minute that someday in a time of weakness, that the sharks will not be swarming around us.
Dude, I'm glad your grandfather made it back alive....really good story....I'm going to go do some reading on it....but I can't remember when I've seen a thread shift so far off topic.
What am I going to spend my $600 on.....nothing, I'm not getting a rebate.
In fact, I just got a statement from the IRS that I owe another $2900 in income tax for 2006....from money I received as severance, when my division was all laid off, because it is cheaper to do software R&D in India than in the US.
I lost my job, but got a severance....paid a lot of taxes on it, so it didn't go very far....now, I have a new job....for a Japanese company....and I'm going to have to pay taxes again for 2006, because my former company didn't handle it right when I was laid off.
OOPS, I guess I drifted a little bit off topic, too.
< Message edited by AV8ForFun -- 5/15/2008 11:31:33 AM >
_____________________________
''69 Mustang Coupe 351W 4V FMX - In Pieces
''97 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4 - P.O.S.
''06 Mustang GT Premium 5 Spd - Stock
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/15/2008 7:17:54 PM
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mustdoc
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/10/2007
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"The first casualty of war is truth".
War profiteering is nothing new but remains one of the most dispicable acts of mankind. - http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Bay 68 is correct. The Japanese tried for over 1/2 year to broker peace with the US in early 1945 but the US would not meet. This is documented but rarely discussed. Truman wanted to use the atomic bomb to send a message to Stalin as WWII was drawing to its conclusion. Stalin was not our friend, just our WWII allly. Truman did not do it to save lives. That is the official line but it is not truth.
There is a great documentary, "Why We Fight" that I wish all Americans could watch. Perhaps one of the most amazing points in the documentary is found in the extra clips - President Eisenhower's statements about how hospitals could be built and a lot of good could be done with our tax dollars but, instead, we waste it on excessive military spending... Eisenhower was a conservative republican whose statements, if stated today, would sound more like liberal Dennis Kucinich. That is how far right we in the US have shifted over the past 1/2 century.
My Godfather, rest his soul, was a WWII POW and was tortured. He refused to talk to me about it (I was very young at the time) but did mention a few things to my parents that were just inhuman. He had frequent nightares. It drove him to drink heavily once he returned stateside.
Torture, regardless of who perpetrates it, is inhumane and the torturers should be brought to justice. Japanese soldiers were convicted of war crimes for waterboarding our soldiers during WWII... and executed. Yet today it is common knowledge that a torture program was initiated at the top of the Bush Administration and some apologists have the audicity to applaud it??? Research the "Bybee Memo" if you are curious. Former JAG Alberto Mora is a true patriot! I encourage you to read on this if you want to know stuff past the headlines.
Unfortunately, we, like many peoples, are indoctrinated into a belief that if our enemy is bad we must be good. The world is cast as black and white. But reality ain't so neat.
Consider this - A couple of years ago the US bombed a mosque in Pakistan and killed ~ 16 inocent women and children. If Pakistan had bombed a Baptist church in the US, we would consider it terrorism. Even by our own legal definition as defined in the US Civil code, the bombing of the Pakistani mosque is terrorism on the part of the US. No way to argue around that one! Even more astonishing, Bush tells us that Pakistan is our "ally in the war on terrorism"... and we bomb them and kill innocent their innocent civilians. Sorry to break the news so some who refuse to face reality but, by our own legal definition, we are terrorists, too!
Unfortunately, this bombing in Pakistan is not an isolated incident. Acts such as this has earned us a world-wide reputation as terrorists. As a whole, we just refuse to believe that the US can be anything but righteous on the world stage... but we are not. Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself.
Just today on C-SPAN, former Iraq soldiers testified on Capitol Hill about the under-reported US military killing of Iraqi civilians. Some of these young men seemed barely old enough to shave but courageous enough to stand up and tell congress that the news we are told here by the mainstream media is not accurate. They tell of stateside soldiers sitting in their basements yelling at the lies being told by Fox News on their TV sets. Furthermore, I have heard reports that on newsstands in Cairo, Egypt there are pictures of the tortured detainees we have all seen from Abu Grahib.
All of this just reinforces the US as a bad actor on the world's stage. Our presence in Iraq is making matters more volatile, not less so.
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/16/2008 5:50:05 AM
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AV8ForFun
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: Frisco, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BAY68_347
quote:
Dude, I'm glad your grandfather made it back alive....really good story....I'm going to go do some reading on it....but I can't remember when I've seen a thread shift so far off topic.
The only way I can contribute to political threads is to hijack them. If I get political, I get in trouble.... Wait, I think even my non-political thread was, uh, political. Dammit. Let's talk about the weather. How's the weather in Japan? It is hot as hell here today. Like 95.
Oh, am I the only one who thinks it is funny how Apple products proudly claim "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in Taiwan."??
Does this sound better than "MADE IN CHINA."?? 
Hey, I wasn't saying that all the political commentary was bad....in fact I really enjoy politics talk, it's healthy....I just always find it funny how this "Stream of Consciousness" format (Forums) tend to drift on and off topic so easily....ie. starts out by asking how are we going to spend money that the government is giving us back for a change and ends up talking about how someones grandfather was taken POW in WWII, and that our government was at fault (BTW, I think the Japanese had a little to do with it).....again not saying anything bad about your Grandfather he sounds like a hero to me.....I just enjoy watching the topics drift.
< Message edited by AV8ForFun -- 5/16/2008 5:59:04 AM >
_____________________________
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''97 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4 - P.O.S.
''06 Mustang GT Premium 5 Spd - Stock
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/16/2008 6:58:53 AM
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67coupe
Posts: 327
Joined: 5/8/2004
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Several observations about this thread.
1. It's your money they giving you not the governments.
2. People on the government dole aren't getting it because they already get someone elses money.
3. Knock Honda and Toyota all you want, but they build the cars here employing Americans not in Mexico or Canada.
4. NAFTA was passed under Clinton.
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/16/2008 8:47:51 AM
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mustdoc
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/10/2007
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As always, I am baffled by a few (not most) responses.
1. Who mentioned anything about political correctness? I thought this thread was discussing the economic stimulus package and, by direct association, fiscal responsibility.
2. Again an assumption was made that is way off base. Just because I and a HUGE chorus of both conservative and liberal economists have bashed the Bush fiscal policy of the past 7+ years does not mean that I (or they) thought Clinton's policies were nirvana. That is exactly the type of response that those who see the world in balck and white terms tend to offer. NAFTA, praised by many economists on both sides of the political spectrum, has resulted in the loss of American jobs. Since I am pro-America, I do not like NAFTA. But I do understand the pro-NAFTA argument and can see where it "may be good down the road"... but, right now, it has created a lot of misery for us!
3. I am a capitalist. I believe in free markets. It is laughable if anyone thinks that true "free markets" abound. We subsidize industries, for example - Oil companies, with Billions of US tax dollars. By definition, that is not a free market - that subsidy gives them an advantage in the market place and helps squelch competition. Free markets work when they are unfettered by either excessive regulation or unfair subsidies. Free markets work when competition is allowed on a level playing field. Subsidies pervert free markets and pervert true capitalism. BTW, this type of subsidy to large companies is called "Corporate Socialism". Exxon makes record profits and we give them Billions in subsidies... and these clowns insult our intelligence by talking up free market capitalism... what a joke.
4. I'm glad AV8 admitted that the US are jerks. I agree that we can be jerks but we can be angels, too. I hope your comments will help dispell the myth that the terrorists want to harm us because they "Envy our Freedom". If anyone wants to trace the recent history of the birth of radical Muslim extremism (not the Christian Crusades but one centered upon geopolitics and oil) a great starting point is "All The Shah's Men" by Stephen Kinzler. We staged a coup of a Democratically elected leader (Time Magazine's man of the year for 1953) for one thing and one thing only - OIL. We replaced him with a brutal dictator. Reza Shah. The Shah of Iran was a puppet of both the US and Britain for decades. Read it and learn.
5. Some are too young to remember Vietnam. Kids who dropped out of college, or who could not afford it, being drafted and some did not come back. Re-install the draft, have the middle and upper class kids get their limbs blown off by IEDs and see how fast the occupation ends. Rumsfeld does not even allow returning bodies to be filmed. This keeps the ugly aspect of this conflict to a minimum. If you believe in freedom, then it should be allowed to view the incoming bodies. Out of sight... out of mind.
6. A top VA administrator tried to cover up GI suicide rates which is very high. Again, who ya gonna trust?
As for the checks - they should help in the short term. But it is our money... our tax dollars to begin with.
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/16/2008 10:39:40 AM
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AV8ForFun
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: Frisco, TX
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Just a minor correction to Mustdoc.....I'm not the one who said americans are jerks.
I've tried to stay off the politics of this thread and just comment on what I thought was funny about how the thread had run completely off topic....no matter how you justify why the thread got to where it is at right now, the original post was a normal Mustang post checking to see if anyone had Parts buying plans with the small windfall of money being rebated by the government.
Since I'm in on it I'll say this. I've been all over the world (5 continents and at least 25 or 30 countries) both with the military and in the private sector (my job), and I'll state my opinion clearly....The United States of America is the greatest country on the face of the planet, for now. Our government is the longest standing unchanged government in the world (name an older one), because it is the best that has been formulated, so far. Are there some aspects of other countries that are better than the US? Of course.
I voted for Bush, and would do it again given the same alternatives. Do I think that the Bush administration is behind the rise of fuel prices? Yes, partly (Bush has too many ties to big oil, and too much profit for Exxon). A large part of what's going on in our economy, though, is due to the rapid ermergence of markets in the Asian/Pacific Rim region (mostly China and India). There is now much more competition for natural resources. 50 years ago, the only thing those countries wanted or needed was rice, now they have jobs and cars and they need fuel, HD TV's, Air Conditioners....supply and demand.
Mustdoc, I agree with many of the things you say, but to imply that the current state of the economy is due to the government is just election year bunk. For decades the US has had it easy with little competition in the world market. Now other countries have figured out that we were doing things right and they want some of the good life, too. For now, the numbers are on their side, and there is little that our government can do about it (Democrats or Republicans).
Oh well, my .02
< Message edited by AV8ForFun -- 5/16/2008 10:55:06 AM >
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RE: For all those paranoid about the Economic Stimulus ... - 5/16/2008 11:34:47 AM
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mustdoc
Posts: 138
Joined: 6/10/2007
Status: offline
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AV, I suspect you and I agree more than disagree.
My father served in WWII and my uncle in Korea. And they are appalled by the treatment vets have received and are receiving. I have worked in VA hospitals many years (the good ones) and have heard horror stories from vets about the bad VA hospitals and clinics. I have been to Walter Reed many times in the past and it was not as bad as it is now. It breaks my heart to see ths crap.
As for Bush, I am afraid I agree with the majority who view him as one of the worst presidents of all time. He has the lowest approval rating since Gallop began taking their poll and that is not because he is undeserving.
True conservatives like Bruce Bartlett, Bob Barr, Bruce Fein (asst. AG under Reagan), Ron Paul, etc... consider him an imposter. Fein, who brought up articles of impeachment against Clinton has also called to impeach Bush and Cheney!!!
Many Christians I know believe he was not truthful about his faith given the fruits he bore (he is a war monger, his policies have helped the extremely wealthy over the poor and middle class, lies too numerous to count, he commonly uses foul language in private reports, and I have been told that his church attendance record is worse than Bill Clinton's... not that Bill is a standard bearer in this arena.).
His administration has consistently surpressed or altered scientific reports that they do not like (e.g. global warming) perverting the pursuit of scientific knowledge. He and his "principals" (look up ABC news report on this reference) knew they were torturing detainees. Ashcroft even stated that "History will not judge us kindly". For crying out loud, even the prosecutor of Charles Manson, Vince Bugliosi, has a book coming out making a case for "W" as a murderer. The abundance of data is overwhelming.
Bush told a reporter that he gave up golf as a sacrifice for the troops. Not only is that insulting, but a few months later, he was back playing golf again.
How many lies does it take before everyone sees him for what he is - a spoiled little new england kid of privlege transplanted to Texas, raised in the finest and most expensive schools the US has to offer (Andover prepatory school, Yale undergrad and Harvard Business school - how did a "C" student at Yale get into Harvard Business school??? Daddy got him in, of course.) and ducked real Vietnam combat by serving in the Texas air national guard where he went AWOL and nobody seemed to complain.
If you are from Texas, check out David Cay Johnston's book, "Free Lunch" and see where he fleeced the Texas taxpayers in the Texas Rangers baseball deal for MILLIONS. He is a tax-subsidized millionaire and his followers either do not seem to care or simply are not aware of his actions because they are never talked about on Fox News, or rush, or Hannity, etc...
After WWII, intense psychological research was undertaken to investigate the personality traits that allowed people to follow Hitler and Mussolini. The past 7 years has been a veritable classroom in regard to authoritarinism... both fear-induced followers (Rudy G saying 911 every other breath hoping to gain support) and authoritarian-type leaders. Bush and his cronies meet most of the characteristics for an authoritarian leader type. Unfortunately, most southern republicans are classic authoritarian followers. (No, I am not a Democrat and yes, I have voted for many Repuclicans in the past). This is textbook behavior. For those of us familiar with the research, it is darn scary!
As for Keynsian economics and Military Keynsianism... that will have to wait.
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