Ok I am having a local exhaust shop put on my exhaust. It is all custom made duels and all but i was wondering if i should get H pipe X pipe or just straight back duels. And how much different would the 3 make preformance wise. Also headers... Should i get new ones on it because all i have is the original 289 headers from 1964 hahah. And what headers would be the most cost efficent and sound great and get good horse power.
< Message edited by My64 Mustang289 -- 5/13/2008 9:00:33 AM >
Hiya. I know this is not what you want to here: when you put in dual exhausts, you might have to re-route the rear brake line as this will be close to the 2nd pipe when you don't have factory dual. Especially since you have a 64 model as well (which only have a single brake circuit). Just as a safety advise ...
I have 2 seperate pipes, no crossing. Love it. But I would love to hear what's better on H/X pipes as well
Kalli
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1964 1/2 289 2bbl (autolite 2100) with holley headers and flowmaster 40s new: Quick Performance Racing 9" rear, Moser axles, 3.5:1 trac loc from FRPP and T5. CSRP disc brakes front and FRPP discs back. New wheels and tyres
no such thing as original headers. theyre exhaust manifolds.
get some patriot tri y headers. or some hedman longtubes or hookers. either of the three are fine. theyre about $150 each for black painted ones. but the paint burns off anf youre left with bare metal headers which will rust. so if you willing to spend the money, get the ceramic coated version of either of them.
I'm not sure exactly what connecting both exhaust sides via the H-pipe or X-pipe really does, but I have been advised from more than one source that it's important. I've also been told that unless I go with a bigger carb and better intake than the stock 2 barrel and original intake on my 289, I'm best off just putting a dual exhaust on my original manifolds.
I ordered my dual exhaust out of the catalog and found the tailpipes difficult to fit in. If I wasn't so intent on doing everything myself, I would have had a muffler shop do the work for me.
I didn't have any clearance problems myself between the rear brake hose and the drive side exhaust pipe, but it is something I'm glad I checked.
An engine doesn't exhaust from the cylinders in an alternating pattern. (ie. Left side, right side, left side back and forth etc.). Instead it may exhaust on two sides on consecutive cycles (ie. Left side, right side, right side, left side, left side), this will cause the exhaust pressures to not be balanced from cylinder to cylinder. (each cylinder doesn't have the same backpressure on the exhaust). By having the x/h pipes you effectively increase the diameter of the exhaust system as the gasses are split in two and the imbalance is not as noticeable.
IMO, it is only important to have an x/h pipe if you are tweaking it for every ounce of HP you can get, which most of us would like to think we are doing.
Personally, I like the sound of true duals much better than the sound of an X/H pipe, but I will probably get an x/h pipe when I do my exhaust.
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''69 Mustang Coupe 351W 4V FMX - In Pieces ''97 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4 - P.O.S. ''06 Mustang GT Premium 5 Spd - Stock
Hooker super comp long tube headers tuck up nice on my '69. As for h pipe or x pipe, I think they are a band-aid for exhaust that is too restrictive. Just make sure they put in good/appropritate size pipe, mandrel bends, and low restriction muffler.
If you are like any of us here you will be doing more to your car in the future (Intake, Carb, Ignition, etc.) so I would get a nice set of headers now before you get the custom fit exhaust so that you don't have to worry about trying to make new headers fit where your old manifolds were latter down the road.
I have herd that the X pipe gets the most power increase, the H pipe gets the a little less, and straight out duels get the least. Though the power difference between the best (x pipe) and the worst (no cross over) is minimal, we are talking about 5hp tops.
DISCLAIMER!!!!: I have never delt with either X or H pipes so I am only speaking out of what I have herd others tell me.
ORIGINAL: urban_cowboy they are a band-aid for exhaust that is too restrictive.
LOL
i run true dual as well. as for exhaust only if carb and intake are done. I believe that's wrong. I have a stock 289 2barrell with lonhg tube headers and flowmaster 40s. And if that doesn't already pull 20hp out of the stock engine, then at least it sounds like 50 ... :-]
i don't know on how accurate desktop dynos are. in theory quite good probably. but if you put in a stock 289 you end up with 190HP. add long tube headers with mufflers and you get 220. difference is 30. If only half of that is true then your mate is wrong ;-)
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1964 1/2 289 2bbl (autolite 2100) with holley headers and flowmaster 40s new: Quick Performance Racing 9" rear, Moser axles, 3.5:1 trac loc from FRPP and T5. CSRP disc brakes front and FRPP discs back. New wheels and tyres
like i said before. no need for an x or h pipe on a carbed 289/302. plus, im not sure how much room there is to actually fit one.
its a huge benefit with the modular FI motors though.
there maybe be more HP on paper but in reality, it doesnt make or break the quickness of the car. in other words, you cant feel the difference in the pedal. dont bother with the extra money and/or labor charges.
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Joined: 1/19/2007 From: New Mexico Status: offline
Well from what I know, The X-pipe is supposed to supply a more efficient flow of exhaust, which in turn can help your power even if it is slight. I am not an exhaust expert but that is what my understanding is. I always thought no cross over was best but that seems not to be the case. It is the same effect as having the right size pipes, if they are too big it can effect your power. Like I said I am no exhaust expert but that is my understanding.
Oh X-pipes are supposed to be better then H-pipes, it has to do with the flow, I found this out after I but H-pipes on my car.
There is a large benefit to a balance pipe on ANY v-type motor. As has been mentioned, it balances the pressure between the two banks. Can't remember where it went to, but Flowmaster did a comparative study a while back that showed anywhere from 5-15hp from simply adding an H-pipe to a straight dual exhaust system, the closer to the collectors the better. Not only does it improve peak power, it improves power across the rpm range. This is why pretty much every vehicle with factory dual exhaust has a balance pipe somewhere in the system.
There's also a sound difference between the three types of exhaust. Straight pipes tend to sound more raspy and/or blatty, more like two 4 cylinder engines running together. An H-pipe helps remove some of the raspy tone and gives you more of the signature V8 exhaust note. I was VERY happy when I finally got an h-pipe welded into my dual system.
I don't like X-pipes on classic cars. I think they sound great on the newer OHC motors with cats, but they give a weird almost tinny (that's tinny, not tiny) sound to the exhaust on uncatted cars. They do make slightly more power at high revs, but the performance difference will be negligible on a street car.
Edit: This is directly from the Flowmaster FAQ
----------------------------------------------------- Do I need to install an "H" pipe to my dual exhaust? Flowmaster strongly recommends using an "H" pipe, commonly known as a "balance tube" on all "true dual" exhaust systems. An "H" pipe equalizes the pressures between both banks of the engine giving a broader and flatter torque curve throughout the rpm range. It also eliminates "back-rap" common on deceleration, and creates a deeper mellower tone both inside and outside of the vehicle.
Is an "X" pipe better than and "H" pipe? Over the years, Flowmaster's testing of all types of crossovers, including "X pipes", has revealed no substantial benefits over a properly installed "H" pipe on street driven applications. However, in race applications with small cubic inch engines and /or restricted (small bore) carburetors, will respond well to the addition of X pipes, tri-y styled collectors and/or properly designed single exhaust systems. -----------------------------------------------------
< Message edited by Starfury -- 5/13/2008 4:41:02 PM >
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Joined: 9/5/2006 From: Barossa Valley, South Australia Status: offline
+1 Starfury,
I would point out that an H-pipe is not some expensive item either. Its just a piece of pipe the same diameter as the rest of the exhaust, welded between the two pipes. If its done during construction of the exhaust it wont cost more than 10- 20 bucks.
X-pipes have numerous designs some of which are good and some which can hurt performance.
Neither an h or an x is going to give you a massive seat of the pants feeling in performance but will give a few hp and a tiny bit better mileage. But i agree that an h will give a better sound over nothing. I did it to my car about 2 years ago and the sound was much less boat like.
As far as restrictions in the exhaust, most of our cars are pretty mild so we tend to over engineer the exhausts...2.5" and up. To give you an example, our rally car is 550hp (flywheel), 7200rpm limited and has headers into a single 3" pipe. No trip to the dyno has ever resulted in the tech telling us to put bigger/ more exhaust.
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A 2007 study found on average Australians walk 900 miles a year. We drink 26 gallons of beer. That means, on average, Australians get about 34 miles per gallon. Not bad hey!
My 1967 Coupe ASE Cert:Auto Collision, Refinishing, & Metalwork/Mechanical Engineering Major. Because being 18 means you know nothing about automobiles
As far as restrictions in the exhaust, most of our cars are pretty mild so we tend to over engineer the exhausts...2.5" and up. To give you an example, our rally car is 550hp (flywheel), 7200rpm limited and has headers into a single 3" pipe. No trip to the dyno has ever resulted in the tech telling us to put bigger/ more exhaust.
...are you running an f-body? :P Boo for single pipe exhaust, hehe.
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Joined: 9/5/2006 From: Barossa Valley, South Australia Status: offline
hahaha, actually its a (gm) product. we had a local made v8 in 253 and 308 cubes. this one is stroked to 355. it does go pretty hard now with some assistance from Ford. It has a 9" true trac and ran a toploader for the first 4 years campaigning.
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quote:
A 2007 study found on average Australians walk 900 miles a year. We drink 26 gallons of beer. That means, on average, Australians get about 34 miles per gallon. Not bad hey!
you should do what i did...get some longtube headers and a pair of purple hornies that bolt straight onto the headers w/turndowns. it'll be around $250 and it'll sound awesome!
There is a large benefit to a balance pipe on ANY v-type motor. As has been mentioned, it balances the pressure between the two banks. Can't remember where it went to, but Flowmaster did a comparative study a while back that showed anywhere from 5-15hp from simply adding an H-pipe to a straight dual exhaust system, Edit: This is directly from the Flowmaster FAQ
----------------------------------------------------- Do I need to install an "H" pipe to my dual exhaust? Flowmaster strongly recommends using an "H" pipe, commonly known as a "balance tube" on all "true dual" exhaust systems. An "H" pipe equalizes the pressures between both banks of the engine giving a broader and flatter torque curve throughout the rpm range. It also eliminates "back-rap" common on deceleration, and creates a deeper mellower tone both inside and outside of the vehicle.
Is an "X" pipe better than and "H" pipe? Over the years, Flowmaster's testing of all types of crossovers, including "X pipes", has revealed no substantial benefits over a properly installed "H" pipe on street driven applications. However, in race applications with small cubic inch engines and /or restricted (small bore) carburetors, will respond well to the addition of X pipes, tri-y styled collectors and/or properly designed single exhaust systems. -----------------------------------------------------
Nice unbiased report I am sure too. Flow master claim their exhaust kit for the mustang 2.5" will bolt right up to headers. After two days friggin with their system under my car I take anything they claim with a grain of salt................
Jav
< Message edited by JapanGT -- 5/13/2008 7:16:28 PM >
Posts: 2035
Joined: 9/5/2006 From: Barossa Valley, South Australia Status: offline
connor imho that same system would sound even better with an h.
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quote:
A 2007 study found on average Australians walk 900 miles a year. We drink 26 gallons of beer. That means, on average, Australians get about 34 miles per gallon. Not bad hey!
I don't see how you can really be biased with that report. They're not making money off of 8" of tubing. If they wanted to be biased, they'd tell you their expensive X-pipe systems give you 20hp over an H-pipe.
Pre-bent systems are a PITA anyway. Flowmaster is primarily a muffler manufacturer. Telling you that it's better to add a small crosstube to your exhaust doesn't really benefit them as a company.
I find it more important that auto manufacturers install them on every car with dual exhaust. Auto manufacturers are not in the business of wasting money. They don't do things like that (usually) without a good reason. If they can squeeze a little more power and efficiency out of a small crosstube, which costs say $10 a car, they're going to do it.
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