So I went to the track again Friday. I have been having a hard time getting traction so I did a little work on the car this last week.
Installed new LCA bushings (Kept splitting the bushings last two trips). Added a BMR extreme roll control bar and LCA relocation brackets.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/644854d1.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/bc8af04d.jpg

Well that solved my traction issues! The car is dead hooking now!!

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/b3782df8.jpg

We made 2 passes on motor to get the launch right. Then we decided to go for it and spray out of the whole! The car does not yet have a roll cage so we new this would be the last trip for the night! WRONG!! Had a great launch and dropped my 330' by 4 tenths. However, when I shifted to 3rd I missed the shift!!!! AAArrrggghhh!!!

We decided to make one more pass and try it again. The same thing!!! 3rd was gone!!!

Turns out a stock Cobra twin disk clutch just can"t handle launching 660 rwhp on a 5 grand dump with slicks and bogarts (surprising huh;)). I would have thought the Ford engineers would have planned for this!! LOL

Well this is what the clutch looked like this morning when we pulled it!

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/c3db56e5.jpg

It's toast!! But I got a solution for it!!!

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/9025f6a1.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/photo-3.jpg

That's right we're going to an automatic!! I'll keep you guys updated on the transformation!

damnit.. I want a BMR extreme roll control bar and i think you just sold me on it.

I just noticed you didn't post ET's...I won't tell [:-]

Couldn't make a clean pass![:@][:@] We were making 1/8th mile hits to get the launch right. When we went to run it out, spraying out of the whole, it was too much for it!!

The best we've done on the car so far is 11.2 at 127 but we were spinning bad on launch and only spraying in 3rd and 4th.

We will see what the car can really do this weekend with the new trans!

Oooh and that clutch only has 500 miles on it!!![:@][:@]

I'll be it they were hard ones!![8D]

Dont go with a girl-o-matic.. makes driving on the street dead boring.

why the automatic?

you mean you went to the drag stip. a track has curves in it............

why the automatic?

Are you going with a full manual valve body and transbrake? That's the way my car is setup for bracket racing, along with a 2-step. It's like a manual without a clutch and you can't miss a gear. Last time at the track (almost a month ago), car made six passes with 0.098 of a second separating slowest from fastest times. Automatic is helpful for competitive consistency.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/forensicsteve/hurst2.jpg

Plain and simple the auto is much quicker (shifting) and consistent for the track IMHO and the stick is fun for DD and street racing. Ask almost any truly serious track racer and they will say the same!

ORIGINAL: alloutt

why the automatic?

Forensicsteve; Exactly! We're putting in a 3 speed racing transmission with a Neal Chance converter and transbrake. The car will be going out to have a compound boost system with twin 60mm turbo's feeding the Eaton put on after the World Ford Challenge. Goes up to Eastexas race cars to have the cage put in afterwards.

MYGT500: You are correct the Automatic is much more consistant. It also keeps the car in boost during the shiftnormally a whole second can be taken off the time with an Automatic over a manual!

Even with nearly stock cars the automatics consistently put down better times than manuals...its just a fact of life...

ORIGINAL: Ruffnuts

Dont go with a girl-o-matic.. makes driving on the street dead boring.


Wow, with intellectual arguments like "girl-o-matic" maybe I should change my mind!:eek:

Hmmm, does this look like a girl-o-matic to you?

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/NMRA%203-9-08/?action=view&current=217d4364.flv

He's running the same "girl-o-matic" I am. I should probably let John Urist (three time NMRA champion and owner of hellion turbo's), Danny Bagginga, Don Burton, Richard Lelsz and 1/2 acre now that their 7 second cars are running on "girl-o-matics also.

As far as the street goes.....I'll give you2 lengths and the move and still smoke you like your in reverse!

ORIGINAL: Black05StangGT

Even with nearly stock cars the automatics consistently put down better times than manuals...its just a fact of life...


You are correct! It's just faster and more consistent. On average a conversion from manual to automatic will cut as much as a full second off your time.

PLstang.......

No worries......that car of yours looks nothing girly-like and performance-wise? Pfft!!!
You've created a BEAST!!!! I think you could easily give anyone a damn good run for their money!! ;)

So you'll have the new automatic installed in time for this weekend?? This should be very interesting for you track times!!! [&:]

Please keep us posted on the progress of that racecar of yours........man, I can't imagine how much fun it is to drive it!!

saddle ~

So you are doing compound boost?

After reading the article in this months MM&FF I have decided it is the answer to the question no one has asked. Theirs was down 150 something rwhp from running Turbo's alone.

I think just running the turbo set up would be better, but to each his own.

If you are going to do it, why not try it running a compund twin turbo into a 3.4L whipple. At least the blower wont be as big of an inlet restriction.

Also I thougt it was weird the way compound boost..... well compounds. 11psi from the blower and 7psi from the turbo's made 23psi. I am an engineer, I could never put something so illogical on my car :D.

Good luck with the auto, for a track car you will be much happier.

ORIGINAL: PLstang

ORIGINAL: Ruffnuts

Dont go with a girl-o-matic.. makes driving on the street dead boring.


Wow, with intellectual arguments like "girl-o-matic" maybe I should change my mind!:eek:

Hmmm, does this look like a girl-o-matic to you?

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/NMRA%203-9-08/?action=view&current=217d4364.flv

He's running the same "girl-o-matic" I am. I should probably let John Urist (three time NMRA champion and owner of hellion turbo's), Danny Bagginga, Don Burton, Richard Lelsz and 1/2 acre now that their 7 second cars are running on "girl-o-matics also.

As far as the street goes.....I'll give you2 lengths and the move and still smoke you like your in reverse!


You cant ask much from someone who makes that type of comments anyway ...

Gl with your project PLstang !!

Right on Eric!!!!

I cant wait to see your numbers with the automatic!!!!!! I love my manual but damm, sometimes I wish I had gone with the automatic. I think Id be doing much better at the track too!!! lol

Keep us posted for sure!!!!!

MustangGT0405

Very good question!! Yes I have read the same articles. While a straight Turbo system may make more power that's not the only thing that matters at the track. I could go with a big single 94mm turbo and a 400 cube engine (that's what my race car will have) but this is supposed to be streetable. I really don't want to gut my factory wiring on the car to put in the Big Stuff and all the MSD controlers necessary to make a car like that affective on the track. It's not only about power, but useable power and when that power comes in. The compound boost system appears attractive to me for some of it's benefits on both the small end of the track and the big end. It also lesssons the chance of being "burned down" on the line by a Nitrous car.

I'll definetly let you guys know how the project progresses. I have complete confidence in the people building the settup ( I can't say who at the moment). We'll see if the theory works in practice.

Thanks!!

To each his own. It is a pretty cool set up, just after seeing the numbers I was a little less impressed. It will certainly make good power and the added cubes from the 5.4 wont hurt either.

Just after reading all this stuff about the 3.4L whipple, I am pretty impressed. Maybe you should one up ChevyKiller and put the 3.9L whipple on yours. :D

Well I forgot to mention that the compound boost system is the right price, free.

It will be marketed to GT500 owners and my car is the rolling test bed. I have to leave the Eaton on for the testing. So that means I can't port it or change it out until after that process is complete.

Saddle up, yes the new trans will be installed in time for the weekend! I picked up the trans this morning and dropped it off at the shop.

T-400 with Transbrake
Aluminum high gear drum
Aftermarket Input and Drum
Steel hub
JW 8 bolt flywheel
JW Bell housing

Should be ready to go pretty quickly!!:D

ORIGINAL: PLstang

Well I forgot to mention that the compound boost system is the right price, free.

It will be marketed to GT500 owners and my car is the rolling test bed. I have to leave the Eaton on for the testing. So that means I can't port it or change it out until after that process is complete.


Forget everything I said. :D

When the price is right, the price is right, "Come on down"

Anyway, Have fun.

Compound boost has the biggest advantage of lower IAT's, due to the compression process being more efficient.
2 stage compression is much closer to isothermal compression curve, then high dp single stage. This is assuming the turbos are going through an intercooler.

Yes the turbos are going through an intercooler! I really can't answer more then that since I haven't seen the finished product yet! The whole system is being mocked up at the particular companies facility and I haven't even seen it yet!!

Curious ? for knowledge only.......is an intercooler a required application on turbos verses S/C????

Well I just got back from the shop a little while ago. The transmission is in place and the cross brace mounted. Shifter is installed and the transbrake and neutral lockout are getting wire up tonight.

Tomorrow the trans cooler and my new afco heat exchanger get installed, the drive shaft gets fitted up (we might even be able to use the one I had) and we do the finishing work on the mounting and wiring! The new transmission is the exact same length as the Cobra 6 speed I had, making the whole job much easier!!;)

Here's a couple of pic's!
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/photo1-2.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/photo11.jpg

good luck with the swap.....

IMHO Auto is faster but less fun for a non-dedicated track car

ORIGINAL: mygt500

Plain and simple the auto is much quicker (shifting) and consistent for the track IMHO and the stick is fun for DD and street racing. Ask almost any truly serious tracjk racer and they will say the same!

ORIGINAL: alloutt

why the automatic?


I will bet Billy Gliddon would disagree with a auto over a manuel

ORIGINAL: Black05StangGT

Even with nearly stock cars the automatics consistently put down better times than manuals...its just a fact of life...

Actually on near stock cars with no agresive manuel or auto trans the manuel will eat up the auto all day and all night long. A little re search will show that test of identical factory cars shows the manuel always a bit quicker.

ORIGINAL: mygt500

Plain and simple the auto is much quicker (shifting) and consistent for the track IMHO and the stick is fun for DD and street racing. Ask almost any truly serious track racer and they will say the same!

ORIGINAL: alloutt

why the automatic?

I think sticks are fun, but they get to be crappy when you are in town a lot.

local://upfiles/90468/5C55E0E21C2B4097B8A251FF584282A5.jpg

ORIGINAL: PLstang

ORIGINAL: Ruffnuts

Dont go with a girl-o-matic.. makes driving on the street dead boring.


Wow, with intellectual arguments like "girl-o-matic" maybe I should change my mind!:eek:

Hmmm, does this look like a girl-o-matic to you?

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb183/Plstang/NMRA%203-9-08/?action=view&current=217d4364.flv

He's running the same "girl-o-matic" I am. I should probably let John Urist (three time NMRA champion and owner of hellion turbo's), Danny Bagginga, Don Burton, Richard Lelsz and 1/2 acre now that their 7 second cars are running on "girl-o-matics also.


As far as the street goes.....I'll give you2 lengths and the move and still smoke you like your in reverse!

This made me laugh " As far as the street goes.....I'll give you 2 lengths and the move and still smoke you like your in reverse!
Do you want to race heads up my car and yours? or do you want to use equal cars? and what track? You will have to wait untill I go on leave from Iraq in July or when I return to the states in Dec/Jan 09 time frame.
I love it when someone who has no idea of the abilities of the other makes challenges like this. I will go onrecord here as telling you this. You meet me at some track when I get home and I will spring for the track time and the indentical rental cars, 1 with a manuel, and 1 with an automatic and after plenty of passess to get aquanted with the cars we will race best of 5 and I will put up 10,000 dollars that I can beat you with a manuel! I will go one farther and let you decide on the rental types for the cars. Oh ya by the way the last time John Urist and I spoke we talked about a subject similiar to this and his definition of an automatic is a tranny that requires no human feedback by means of shifting. Even he considers his trannys clutchless manuels.

Doh I need to proof read before hitting the button.

Well Ruffnuts I wish you luck in Iraq. Come home safe.

In regards to the car you may want to check out the specs on the trans. It may also be noted that I am not converting a stock car to manual.The car is heavily modified.

In regards to racing, run what you brung. Mine against yours would be just fine. Your criticizingMY choice to put a manual in MY car. If you feel you've done better with your choices on your car then put it on the line...simple as that!

I'm not debating which trans is better. I'm talking about which trans is better for my car. I didn't say I want an automatic because it's the best for the track (while it has proven advantages). I am saying it is best for my car at the track given the current HP and future HP goals.

Ooh and the car next to the the yellow one in the vid.......is Urist. I sponsor the Strictly Performance Richard Lelsz 10.5 car. I know exactly what they are running. While they are clutchless manuals as Urist said (and is mine) they are still an automatic. As knowledgeable as you are I am surprised you didn't make criticisizim of my particular choice in trans. Given it's a GM automatic.

ruffNUT,
the girl-o-matic comment was totally unneccesary but you two sound like a couple of ten year olds. It is clear you are duly impressed with your own superb ability to shift. enjoy....

Well this thread has definetly digressed from it's original intent.

Perhaps with the forgiveness of my fellow forum members we can get back on topic.

Went to the shop this morning. Trans fits up great! We are actualy able to use the original crossmember with hardly any modification!! Drilled two holes thats it!!!

The driveshaft seems to fit ok. We will need to modify the end. However, Richard is intent on putting in a solid stick! I'm intent on running the car this weekend!!;) We compromised, we'll install the existing aftermarket DS and order a solid stick for next week!!

This trans swap has been fairly easy so far. Even given it's a GM trans. We still have several issues of functionality to work out (speedometer for one). However, the setup should be operational for the weekend (hope I didn't just shoot myself in the foot there)! What's better, everything is still in place to allow me to swap back to the 6 speed cobra trans should I desire to later!

This is a great thread. The Stalled/transbrake equiped autos can wreek havic at the track. Had I not popped my motor a few weeks ago,I would be dropping my car off for the tranny swap tommorrow instead of a built motor.

Pulling up to the line and pausing prior to staging, spooling the turbo and letting her rip creates deadly times and super consitant times.

Next year I will probably swap out for the auto tranny, 4r70w and a bigger turbo.

Congrats on the new tranny.

Thanks Simon! When you get ready let me know. I have found a local shop here that builds custom trans for race applications and the price is right! They also stand behind their work! A lot of racers down here use them!

They can build a mean TC but it just isn't enough for what I was going to throw at it! Or most likely what your going to be throwing at yours!!LOL Just get ready.....that TC is gonna cost![:@]

Well this is a age old argument,
I for one have tested like cars with Auto vs Manual.
I have a 2005 Mustang GT with a Stock 5R55S Auto, Mods. JLT II CAI, Steeda UDP, Steeda CMDP, FRPP 4.10 Gears, Spyder DS, CHE LCA,
and Ran with 2 different Manual 06 and 07 GT's both with same or similar Mods ana I ran 2-3 tenths better than them throughout the day.
My times were almost dead on each run.
99% of the Fastest S197 Mustangs NA or SC are Automatics.

these are some of the fastest NA (All Motor)Automatic Cars on this site
JimII@JDM 11.64
Spyder7724 11.89
2K05GT 12.41
Boss281 12.67
Anticubicle 12.81

Like PLstang said lets keep the thread on track! He was letting us all know that the car is going auto and that he was including all of us in his decision..... now comment on that and please avoid debating which is better and auto or manual! Thanks J


PLstang....if you want this pulled or locked just let me know;) Not terrible yet but I have seen thses take the turn for the worse real quickly

EDIT: per request....[sm=lockeddance.gif] PM PLstang for updates!