First I measured (incorrectly I came to find out) and tried 6.400 pushrods and i had no compression, my engine would not fire. Then I put my stock 6.250 pushrods back in and the motor started, but I had a noise as if my rockers were hitting my valve covers, but they were not. Checked my lifters, re-primed them just incase, checked the tq on all my rockers, the heads were checked before being put in the motor and had a valve job done on them. I called Trickflow and they said my pushrods were too short and I needed 6.300 rods. The car was running fine except for the noisy valve train....
Soooo I order them and put them in my car, not it won't fire, lot of popping in the exhaust and in the intake...I am going to see if i have compression as soon as i get a fitting for my compression tool that fits my heads...
I really need help guys I have had this thing apart 5 times in 3 weeks and i am at whits end....
Told you i tried measuring and got a wrong length so i called the tech the 2nd time around. i had tried the stock ones bec the prev. owner of the heads had used them with his set up. i know each one is different. top end set up is in my sig with 1.6 ford racing RR
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Joined: 1/9/2006 From: Puerto Rico Status: offline
The only way to determine the correct PR length is by measuring and doing a geometry check. Don't misinterpret the following, but instead of having a tech support guy "guess" at the PR length, it would have been more effective and accurate to find what was wrong in the way you were measuring them, and redoing it correctly. You can also check the actual lifter preload once you torque the rocker arms, by following the procedure described here..... anything over .060" can create the problems you're having.
The only way to determine the correct PR length is by measuring and doing a geometry check. Don't misinterpret the following, but instead of having a tech support guy "guess" at the PR length, it would have been more effective and accurate to find what was wrong in the way you were measuring them, and redoing it correctly. You can also check the actual lifter preload once you torque the rocker arms, by following the procedure described here..... anything over .060" can create the problems you're having.
already checked the pre load on the lifters with the 6.250" pushrods and it was .037"......right in the middle of the sweet spot of .020 to .060 that they are suppose to be.....yet I had valve train clapping. I have no idea why it was making noise. and it was not normal noise it was LOUD valve train clapping. Tech guy did not guess, he used info he knew from a set up his friend had with this cam. And common sense said that my pushrods were too short so I got the next set longer, the same that the Trickflow tech recommended, the 6.300. Now these seem to be too long but i won't know until i get the correct fitting tom to do a compression check. the only other size i have seen listed between a 6.250-6.300 is a 6.258 I saw....could my old pushrods only really been .008 off to be making all that noise???????!!!?? but it sill doesn't make sense that they would be makign noise because they were right in the middle of the pre-load range, i could see if I was on the edge of the range that i would of been making noise but i was right in the ****ing middle!!!
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Joined: 1/9/2006 From: Puerto Rico Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: bikeboy587
already checked the pre load on the lifters with the 6.250" pushrods and it was .037"......right in the middle of the sweet spot of .020 to .060 that they are suppose to be.....yet I had valve train clapping. I have no idea why it was making noise. and it was not normal noise it was LOUD valve train clapping. Tech guy did not guess, he used info he knew from a set up his friend had with this cam. And common sense said that my pushrods were too short so I got the next set longer, the same that the Trickflow tech recommended, the 6.300. Now these seem to be too long but i won't know until i get the correct fitting tom to do a compression check. the only other size i have seen listed between a 6.250-6.300 is a 6.258 I saw....could my old pushrods only really been .008 off to be making all that noise???????!!!?? but it sill doesn't make sense that they would be makign noise because they were right in the middle of the pre-load range, i could see if I was on the edge of the range that i would of been making noise but i was right in the ****ing middle!!!
Reads like something else is causing the problem....... I always set for the lowest preload (.020" - .030") and never had a problem..... unless there was a problem with lifters, or rocker arms not clearing the valve retainers. LUK what you find out.
I don't know what to try next, besides shimming my rockers to get inbetween a 6.250 and a 6.300, gonna try after .030 shim after i do a compression test
Posts: 2789
Joined: 1/9/2006 From: Puerto Rico Status: offline
Yep...... other than making sure you determine the correct PR length(s) (yep.... it could need two different length PR's) based on a Valve Train Geometry check/exercise....... if the noise or problem continues to be present, you would need to search for other cause possibilities.
Are your sure your ignition timing is correct? Did you pull/loosen the dizzy for any reason? It may not be valvetrain related, so don't forget to check the basic stuff as well. It sounds though like the 6.3's may be too long, so if stockers are right then you need to find out where the sound is coming from.
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Yea, you should be able to put them back on, just as long as your cam isn't huge. I think you should seriously consider changing over to adjustable valvetrain. You can get studs from ARP or Comp cams that allow you to do it without any head machining. The studs just screw into the original 5/16 holes that are currently in the heads now. This way you can get the valve adjustment just right without so much headache. Thats just me though, right now I'd say that it looks pretty good.
On one more note, if you dont have guide plates or dont want to run them, Probe makes roller rockers that have the "rail" to keep them in line.
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Tuners are like Tampons... Every Pussy has one! 72 Mustang Coupe. 347 stroker with Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads. Coast High cam. RPM air gap intake with a 650 Demon. Ceramic coated headers. MSD billet distributor, 6AL box, Blaster 3 coil, MSD wires.
already checked the pre load on the lifters with the 6.250" pushrods and it was .037"......right in the middle of the sweet spot of .020 to .060 that they are suppose to be.....yet I had valve train clapping. I have no idea why it was making noise. and it was not normal noise it was LOUD valve train clapping. Tech guy did not guess, he used info he knew from a set up his friend had with this cam. And common sense said that my pushrods were too short so I got the next set longer, the same that the Trickflow tech recommended, the 6.300. Now these seem to be too long but i won't know until i get the correct fitting tom to do a compression check. the only other size i have seen listed between a 6.250-6.300 is a 6.258 I saw....could my old pushrods only really been .008 off to be making all that noise???????!!!?? but it sill doesn't make sense that they would be makign noise because they were right in the middle of the pre-load range, i could see if I was on the edge of the range that i would of been making noise but i was right in the ****ing middle!!!
Reads like something else is causing the problem....... I always set for the lowest preload (.020" - .030") and never had a problem..... unless there was a problem with lifters, or rocker arms not clearing the valve retainers. LUK what you find out.
My guess would be that you may have damaged your lifters with the longer pushrods... especially if you used hardened pushrods... the rockers or lifters would get damaged before the pushrod would bend... if they were not hardened then you may want to check out those 6.40 push rods and see if they have any bends in them.
Your lifters would probably be the first to exhibit any problems as a result of installing to long of a pushrod.
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2913
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: offline
Sounds to me like you probably were better off with the 6.250 pushrods. Why were you changing?
As for the noise if you didn't install the pushrods in the same spot they came out of you'll have a very loud tapping noise. Happened to me when i was rebuilding my engine & had all of my pushrods pushed into a piece of styrofoam in order then a friend came along & accidentally kicked the styrofoam block over. Was out of money at the time so i just put them back in in a random order & sounded like someone had a hammer inside my engine. Replaced them with new ones & no more valvetrain noise. You could also check the insides of the 6.250 ones to make sure the oil passage hole is clean in the pushrods.
I'd double check on the lifters though to make sure they weren't damaged from the longer rods (i doubt they did get damaged but it's possible)
< Message edited by FoxGT -- 5/11/2008 11:24:05 PM >
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I highly doubt they were damaged, he said they were brand new, and that the car wouldn't even fire o them because the valves weren't closing all the way. Small block Fords are not interference engines, so even if the valves were staying open slightly, the pistons would not hit the valves. You cannot damage a lifter by having too much preload, especially if it isn't run that way.
When you buy a lifter set, most companies tell you not to soak the lifters in oil. This will keep them from "pre-pumping" and will allow the lifter to collapse all the way until it recieves oil pressure. After you turn the engine over a few times to set all of the valves' preload, then you can prime the oil pump, and the lifters will be good to go. But the bottom line is that running too long of a pushrod will not hurt the lifter unless there is piston to valve contact.
_____________________________
Tuners are like Tampons... Every Pussy has one! 72 Mustang Coupe. 347 stroker with Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads. Coast High cam. RPM air gap intake with a 650 Demon. Ceramic coated headers. MSD billet distributor, 6AL box, Blaster 3 coil, MSD wires.
Are your sure your ignition timing is correct? Did you pull/loosen the dizzy for any reason? It may not be valvetrain related, so don't forget to check the basic stuff as well. It sounds though like the 6.3's may be too long, so if stockers are right then you need to find out where the sound is coming from.
sound is coming from the valve train, the 6.250 are not right. I didn't touch the dizzy when I changed over to the 6.300, there is no reason to. I am almost sure the 6.300 are too long but why the hell does the car sound like a race car with a solid cam with them 6.250 and .037 preload on the lifter?! makes no sense.
quote:
tyler72
Yea, you should be able to put them back on, just as long as your cam isn't huge. I think you should seriously consider changing over to adjustable valvetrain. You can get studs from ARP or Comp cams that allow you to do it without any head machining. The studs just screw into the original 5/16 holes that are currently in the heads now. This way you can get the valve adjustment just right without so much headache. Thats just me though, right now I'd say that it looks pretty good.
On one more note, if you dont have guide plates or dont want to run them, Probe makes roller rockers that have the "rail" to keep them in line.
I am not using any guideplates with my set up, not needed. may cam is not huge, only .499/.510 221/225 112lsa. Any adjustable valvetrain is an idea no one has pitched to me yet, of course that means dumping more money into the studs and new adjustable rockers but it is something ill keep in the back of my mind. Don't you always have to keep checking an adjustable valve train every couple months? that would be a b*tch
quote:
highspeed
My guess would be that you may have damaged your lifters with the longer pushrods... especially if you used hardened pushrods... the rockers or lifters would get damaged before the pushrod would bend... if they were not hardened then you may want to check out those 6.40 push rods and see if they have any bends in them.
Your lifters would probably be the first to exhibit any problems as a result of installing to long of a pushrod.
The engine never was able to run with the 6.400 pushrods because the valves were being hung open= no compression. i took the lifters out on the one side(i was running 6.250 pushrods at this point.) after that and re primed them, because at the time one the passengerside was makign noise and all the lifters looked fine.
Sounds to me like you probably were better off with the 6.250 pushrods. Why were you changing?
As for the noise if you didn't install the pushrods in the same spot they came out of you'll have a very loud tapping noise. Happened to me when i was rebuilding my engine & had all of my pushrods pushed into a piece of styrofoam in order then a friend came along & accidentally kicked the styrofoam block over. Was out of money at the time so i just put them back in in a random order & sounded like someone had a hammer inside my engine. Replaced them with new ones & no more valvetrain noise. You could also check the insides of the 6.250 ones to make sure the oil passage hole is clean in the pushrods.
I'd double check on the lifters though to make sure they weren't damaged from the longer rods (i doubt they did get damaged but it's possible)
i was changing the stock pushrods because the motor was loud as hell with valve train noise, guess ill get that vid up of what it sounded like for you guys.
yes i know you are suppose to keep them in order i did that when took them out and i rebuilt my short block last month. keep them all in order. but with a different cam, lifters, rockers, valves, springs, and heads from the old set up, it really doesnt matter if i kept them in the same order because nothing besides the pushrods at that point where the same...you can treat them as new out of the box pushrods, it will not matter where they go....
and yes i checked them all that there were not clogged and straight.
And yes I primed my motor before i ever started the motor just in case anyone wants to ask that.
Just put my 6.300 pushrods in with a .025 shims. The engine is now able to start, the driver side is silent and purring like a cat.....the friggen passenger sides is loud and clapping like it always has been, even with the 6.250......did it with the valve covers off. all the lifters are pumping up, all the rockers are getting oil. i have no ticking. i put a stethascope on all the rockers as it ran, none of them stick out as different, all have a clapping noise. none are loose or moving around so the rockers seem fine. the same set up is working fine on the driver side and noisy as **** on the pass side. sooooo stumped
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Valve train problems!!! please help - 
RE: Valve train problems!!! please help - 
but it is something ill keep in the back of my mind. Don't you always have to keep checking an adjustable valve train every couple months? that would be a b*tch 