400m project (Full Version)

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400m project

  

battery -> 400m project (5/9/2008 5:23:40 PM)

well i recently came across a deal on a 400hp 400m and i'm wondering if anyone has any experience/knows what is involved in swapping the 400m into a third gen mustang. does anyone know where i could get a swap kit? or atleast the motor mounts?

  
mjr46 -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 5:35:54 PM)

400 m 's are not the most desirable to swap in and swap parts aren't as easy to come by a 351 windsor would be a better choice but 400m's built right can put out some power[;)]

5spd GT -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 5:50:08 PM)

I would stay away from them.  The aftermarket is just not in-tune with the "M" blocks, as competition like the 351M and 400 engines.

I have worked on a couple of them...

battery -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 6:56:22 PM)

well considering the motor already puts out 400hp and i got it for the low low price of free its hard not to want to stick it into a light weight fox body. i mean seriously, spend a few thousand on a new motor or spend a few hundred to stuff a perfectly fine motor into a car. so, back to my original questions...what is involved in swapping the 400m into a third gen mustang? does anyone know where i could get a kit? or the motor mounts?

5.0kid -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 7:04:08 PM)

ive heard bad things about the m blocks. Since it was a marine type motor my old auto teacher told me they had bad oiling problems which i guess could be a possibility since boats usally don't rev as high as a car engine so they didn't need as extensive oiling engineering

battery -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 7:10:33 PM)

every motor has its quirks. i'll be sure to keep a critical eye on the oil situation. there shouldnt be too much strain on the motor, its only making 1hp per cubic inch.

67mustang302 -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 8:54:16 PM)

What everyone is trying to tell you, is that a 400M may be way more trouble than it's worth. Otherwise, it's mostly like putting a SBF in. I wouldn't put an M in anything I drove that was performance oriented, and the whole Cleveland family is seriously over-rated by most people anyway. And do you know this engine is 400hp, or is that just what you were told?

mjr46 -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 9:36:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: battery

well considering the motor already puts out 400hp and i got it for the low low price of free its hard not to want to stick it into a light weight fox body. i mean seriously, spend a few thousand  to stuff a perfectly fine motor into a car. so, back to my original questions...what is involved in swapping the 400m into a third gen mustang? does anyone know where i could get a kit? or the motor mounts?
[8|][8|] there I fixed your line of thinking...now you have the answer......it will be all custom and not cheap////why?   cause it's not a desirable swap[;)]

battery -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 9:48:06 PM)

what everyone keeps telling me is irrelevant. i asked a question and instead of getting answers i got shot down. i happen to of gotten the motor from my father who works as project coordinator for ford. all i wanted to know was if anyone had any specifc and relevant information about the swap and where i could find motor mounts. what i didn't want is everyone's opinion on the project, but apparantly its all i'm going to get.

mjr46 -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 9:59:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: battery

what everyone keeps telling me is irrelevant. i asked a question and instead of getting answers i got shot down. i happen to of gotten the motor from my father who works as project coordinator for ford. all i wanted to know was if anyone had any specifc and relevant information about the swap and where i could find motor mounts. what i didn't want is everyone's opinion on the project, but apparantly its all i'm going to get.

okay obviously you are deaf in one ear so I'll spell it out for you!!!......number 1......you'll need motor mounts, number two if your already efi...trash all the efi and all the emissions and you'll need custom headers and custom exhaust to the catback, you'll need to run a carb set up then, you'll need all the bracketry to adapt all the accessories to run in your fox, you'll need to convert the fuel system to run off of low pressure for a carb set up, you'll need the correct bellhousing and flex plate and tranny = c-4 or c-6 and custom radiator hoses and a larger radiator  most likely to cool the big beast..ect ect   .......so it ain't gonna be  a few hundred bucks when all said and done........This is not and I reapeat not an opinion it is FACT!!![;)]  oh and good luck finding a oil pan for conversion to work with such[;)]

also block is an 8 bolt pattern like a 460 so you'll need a bellhousing and or tranny from a 460 powered vehicle if trying the cheap[8|] route.....and here is some more info on motor

The 351m and 400  have the same bore spacing as the 302/351C/351W but a taller block for a longer stroke and rods. They were considered the next generation of the 351 Cleveland.  They share the same cylinder head bolt pattern as the Clevelands but most of the external bolt ons were different. The 400 started production towards the mid 70's where compression was dropped down to around 8 to 1 compression. This of course affected Horsepower numbers. They had the 460 big block bell housing pattern  to use larger clutches for greater torque capacity, which is why some people opt to swap out to a 460 Big block. The exhaust bolt pattern, pulleys, accessories and Brackets are not the same though. The 351M was introduced after the 400 to fill production demand for a 351 size engine. They were not known for their big performance by enthusiasts but a good engine when setup properly for low end grunt torque.

so what everyone is telling you is not and I repeat NOT irrevavant

67mustang302 -> RE: 400m project (5/9/2008 10:03:49 PM)

Like mjr said, you're basically looking custom. There isn't exactly a market for 400M swaps into anything, so there aren't kits out there that are cost effective. And there's a reason everyone is saying what they are saying. In all liklihood you're gonna end up spending a bunch of money fabricating stuff up to stick this engine in there, run into a bunch of headaches along the way, and quite possibly end up with an engine that's nothing but trouble. Is that what you really want? And consider that if you decide to build more power later it will get VERY difficult and expensive to find parts for a 400M, and then if you decide to put a Windsor back in it you'll have to spend a bunch of money to convert everything back to swap one in. These are all things to consider before you jump into a project like this. Quite a few of us know people who have swapped M's and C's into cars, and in most cases it costs them more money than they though and they end up being dissapointed. If you really want to do this then you'll most likely need to fabricate up something to use engine mounts with the existing k-member and it may end up needing custom headers as well.

5spd GT -> RE: 400m project (5/10/2008 8:18:11 PM)

Battery - It is alright.  If you can throw the block away, or swap it out for a Windsor I believe it is going to save you a lot of headaches.  If you are really wanting to pursue it, that is your call and there is nothing wrong with it.

If you really want to go with it, I had good customer service from this guy:

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/

Oh, and with the 10.3" deck height (IIRC), be looking at a new hood, and a limited amount of good performing intakes.

Good Luck!

tyler72 -> RE: 400m project (5/10/2008 8:33:36 PM)

the reason everything will have to be custom (headers- which will be the hardest part and also the most expensive, and motor mounts, a C4 or C6 with a big block bellhousing, assespries and all brakets, ect, ect, ect...) is because that engine is basically useless for making power. I do respect your decision, but I foresee you having much more money in just making the conversion pieces, than what you would have in building a bad ass windsor (302 or 351) from the ground up. Dude, in all honesty, you should sell that engine, and just build you a nice stroker. They can make 400HP pretty easily, and in the long run, I guarantee you that it will cost much less.

To answer your question directly; the only company that makes a conversion kit is you. No major company manufactures them for mass production because there is no market for this. Nobody really wants to put that ole odd ball in a car. So basically, if you really really want to do it, it can be done, but expect to spend at least $2000 on the conversion (probably more), and also expect to be dissapointed somewhat with the "400HP" that it supposedly makes. Also be aware that there is virtually no aftermarket support for this engine, so like everything else, any performance parts would all have to be custom fabbed pieces, which will get extremly expensive very quickly.

  

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