Last night I found out that a relative works for Ford and can get all parts close to 1/2 off.

Of course, I start drooling. I call a random Ford dealership today and start chatting with a parts rep. I inquired as to the 500HP Whipple HO.

He started in on me and said that I may want to stick with the non-IC version because the HO will put significant pressure on my bottom end, and will severely decrease engine life - throw bearings, rods, blow gaskets, etc... He also said that the system was designed for 93 octane, and while you could tune for 91 (I live in CA and 93= unavailable) one would have to purchase the highest quality 91 (not Costco, ARCO, Al's gasoline, etc..)

He said that applying that much HP that Whipple HO will break something in 20K miles!!!!!!!!!!!

He said for daily driving applicatons it may be best to run less HP. He then said that the 400HP non-IC kit is still plenty powerful but puts less stress on the engine.

This may ring true to a degree, it is a fact that the more HP you have the more engine stress. But what is the truth? Only those whipple HO owners with over 20K miles can be the judge.

HOW MANY MILES DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR WHIPPLE HO?

The rep may have been right, he may have been overly cautious, or he may not know much (unlikely).

So while I am sure that most of you will defend your Whipple to the grave, what say you to this Ford Rep's characterization of WHipple HOs?

Engine Killer or Engine Friend.

hmmmmmm.........while its undeniable that 100 more hp puts more stress on the engine, i think its really beneficial to have an intercooler (to help put less stress on the engine). maybe the best option would be to get the H.O. kit and "pulley it down" a bit.

be safe and go with the saleen...

you even get a free night in a hotel,
if you have brenspeed install it

Wow, so the guy told you that increasing cylinder pressure reduces engine life? Lol. It's expected bud, although to pop that sucker in under 20K miles would require a serious leadfoot.

Lol @ hammy.

not using the right octane gas maybe??

that was a major selling point, for
oneboosted member :D


ORIGINAL: nineinchnail1024


Lol @ hammy.

Having the intercooler will reduce inlett temp and help to aviod problems. I got the HO and on the Auto it's 8psi. Just get the larger pully to reduce HP if you don't want that much HP, but definatly go HO because it's safer and cheaper to buy it all together than to add it later. I would check with someone else. I almost went non-intercooled and it was highly recomemded to gowith the HO kit and keep my HP where it's at. 430rwhp 410rwtq

+1 :eek:

can't you keep the factory warranty with one of the whipples? i know the saleen and the roush blowers both keep the warranty if you have it installed by a certified technician.


also, the saleen blower is an EXCELLENT option, and yes, getting it from brenspeed is a must.

Was it a ford racing dealer? I know most parts guys are good at ordering parts for customers and mechanics and they are experts in that light. They, however, are not experts in the research and development of frpp's and what is safe on a stock block. Ford would not have put it's name on a whipple if it was a motor timebomb.



ORIGINAL: crazystylin

Last night I found out that a relative works for Ford and can get all parts close to 1/2 off.

Of course, I start drooling. I call a random Ford dealership today and start chatting with a parts rep. I inquired as to the 500HP Whipple HO.

He started in on me and said that I may want to stick with the non-IC version because the HO will put significant pressure on my bottom end, and will severely decrease engine life - throw bearings, rods, blow gaskets, etc... He also said that the system was designed for 93 octane, and while you could tune for 91 (I live in CA and 93= unavailable) one would have to purchase the highest quality 91 (not Costco, ARCO, Al's gasoline, etc..)

He said that applying that much HP that Whipple HO will break something in 20K miles!!!!!!!!!!!

He said for daily driving applicatons it may be best to run less HP. He then said that the 400HP non-IC kit is still plenty powerful but puts less stress on the engine.

This may ring true to a degree, it is a fact that the more HP you have the more engine stress. But what is the truth? Only those whipple HO owners with over 20K miles can be the judge.

HOW MANY MILES DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR WHIPPLE HO?

The rep may have been right, he may have been overly cautious, or he may not know much (unlikely).

So while I am sure that most of you will defend your Whipple to the grave, what say you to this Ford Rep's characterization of WHipple HOs?

Engine Killer or Engine Friend.

I have heard too many stories (especially recently) of people blowing their stock engines b/c of their FI device. To me it's just way to risky for a DD to boost on a stock engine. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I personally am not going to take the chance. It has been very tempting for me though I won't deny that.

For my GT, all I want is to increase it by 100HP (that has always been my main goal from the start) and I want to do it NA. Brenspeed has done it with parts on their site so I know it's possible and not that hard (except for the Comp Cam stage 3's install). Having 100HP over stock and staying NA will be safer than 100HP over from boost since it's the boost that kills from what I understand.

I'll just wait until I get a GT500 to run a s/c (which it already comes with). :D

It's all in the tune my friend, not everyone can tune these cars...



ORIGINAL: SirKnightTG

I have heard too many stories (especially recently) of people blowing their stock engines b/c of their FI device. To me it's just way to risky for a DD to boost on a stock engine. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I personally am not going to take the chance. It has been very tempting for me though I won't deny that.

For my GT, all I want is to increase it by 100HP (that has always been my main goal from the start) and I want to do it NA. Brenspeed has done it with parts on their site so I know it's possible and not that hard (except for the Comp Cam stage 3's install). Having 100HP over stock and staying NA will be safer than 100HP over from boost since it's the boost that kills from what I understand.

I'll just wait until I get a GT500 to run a s/c (which it already comes with). :D

i think there is some logic to that argument, but only time will tell. in the meantime my HO has 3 tunes, on the street i run the tune that keeps my power at about 430 and if it blows, i got another car to drive me to work and some $$ saved for engine upgrades. i think any FI car owner should have some money in the bank just in case something breaks. but i knew the risk before i went FI, so there are no regrets. i'm not saying everyone should get FI, but life is too short to keep your stang stock, or wonder what if.......

That is sound advice and I totally agree!!!! You have to pay to play and we all know what can happen and remember you are not in boost all the time if you use as a DD and show some responsibility when driving as hard as that may be to do!!!!!;)

Most any factory FI car will have forged internals or better than powered rods at the very least to help safe guard the motor and they also tune the car very conservatively.

ORIGINAL: onederful100

i think there is some logic to that argument, but only time will tell. in the meantime my HO has 3 tunes, on the street i run the tune that keeps my power at about 430 and if it blows, i got another car to drive me to work and some $$ saved for engine upgrades. i think any FI car owner should have some money in the bank just in case something breaks. but i knew the risk before i went FI, so there are no regrets. i'm not saying everyone should get FI, but life is too short to keep your stang stock, or wonder what if.......

ORIGINAL: SirKnightTG

I have heard too many stories (especially recently) of people blowing their stock engines b/c of their FI device. To me it's just way to risky for a DD to boost on a stock engine. Now I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I personally am not going to take the chance. It has been very tempting for me though I won't deny that.

For my GT, all I want is to increase it by 100HP (that has always been my main goal from the start) and I want to do it NA. Brenspeed has done it with parts on their site so I know it's possible and not that hard (except for the Comp Cam stage 3's install). Having 100HP over stock and staying NA will be safer than 100HP over from boost since it's the boost that kills from what I understand.

I'll just wait until I get a GT500 to run a s/c (which it already comes with). :D



From what I understand, that is all opinions of non-experts or self-proclaimed experts.

Over 8k miles on my whipple, but atleast 1/2 of that is with the 8psi pulley.

I would have asked this ford rep how many whippled GT's have come in with spun bearings, broken rods or blown gaskets. Hell, people running a lot more boost and power are doing it with stock head gaskets so I call BS on this fool. Anyone heard of a blown head gasket on a s197 gt?

ORIGINAL: AmericanMuscle4.6GT

can't you keep the factory warranty with one of the whipples? i know the saleen and the roush blowers both keep the warranty if you have it installed by a certified technician.


also, the saleen blower is an EXCELLENT option, and yes, getting it from brenspeed is a must.



Roush has their own warranty and of course they aren't pushing much power. Saleen has a warranty, but there are a lot of requirements, like it being installed at a saleen authorized dealer and running the saleen tune. If brenspeed installs your saleen, I doubt seriously that your local dealer is going to warranty anything. The 400hp ford racing kit has a 1 year warranty if installed by a authorized dealer.

If you need a warranty, then a blower is not for you. I would not hold my breath with any of those warranties if you break a rod.

I'll trade you a saleen for it :D

ORIGINAL: SirKnightTG

Having 100HP over stock and staying NA will be safer than 100HP over from boost since it's the boost that kills from what I understand.




Cylinder pressures from 400 horsepower is the same, no matter if it's Nitrous, Saleen, Whipple, Hellion, Natural Aspiration or any other manner of getting it. They all burn the same amount of fuel and exert the same amount of pressure down on the pistons and rods, the only difference is how the extra oxygen that the fuel burns gets into the cylinder.

Also, an IC isn't going to lower cylinder pressure at all. In fact, most times the IC is going to indirectly add cylinder pressure, in the form of thetuner being able to add more timing to the tune. All the IC does is help control the combustion event and keep the fuel charge cooler to help keep it from exploding (i.e. Detonation) and allows it to have a controlled combustion event.

ORIGINAL: moosestang

Roush has their own warranty and of course they aren't pushing much power. Saleen has a warranty, but there are a lot of requirements, like it being installed at a saleen authorized dealer and running the saleen tune. If brenspeed installs your saleen, I doubt seriously that your local dealer is going to warranty anything.


Brenspeed is a Speedlab facility, so as long as you don't get one of their Stage packages and stick with the 475 HP Saleen tune, you'll have the remainder of your 3/35 warranty from Saleen.

ORIGINAL: EricM

ORIGINAL: moosestang

Roush has their own warranty and of course they aren't pushing much power. Saleen has a warranty, but there are a lot of requirements, like it being installed at a saleen authorized dealer and running the saleen tune. If brenspeed installs your saleen, I doubt seriously that your local dealer is going to warranty anything.


Brenspeed is a Speedlab facility, so as long as you don't get one of their Stage packages and stick with the 475 HP Saleen tune, you'll have the remainder of your 3/35 warranty from Saleen.



Well why doesn't brenspeed mention that? You'd think that'd be a big selling point if it were true. I see nothing on saleens site or brenspeed claiming any kind of warranty with the 475hp package. The base unit only makes 400hp and 420 ft lbs of torque (saleen's website) on 4psi of boost. I'm sure they will warranty that.

Like I said, if you need a warranty on a supercharger mustang, then you should not have a supercharged mustang. If you have an engine failure with even the roush, I think you'll be SOL trying to get them to cover it. Get ready for a fight.

i'll call BS on that as well. too many guys running the stock bottom end without issue. A buddy of mine made 400+ track passes with a KB in the mid 11s (10psi and 450+rwhp) on the stock bottom end with no issue. IMO that's a lot more abuse than a DD would see with 450 at the tire.

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

i'll call BS on that as well. too many guys running the stock bottom end without issue. A buddy of mine made 400+ track passes with a KB in the mid 11s (10psi and 450+rwhp) on the stock bottom end with no issue. IMO that's a lot more abuse than a DD would see with 450 at the tire.


I broke my tranny at 10 psi driven as a daily driver and thats the truth :D

Auto?^^^

ORIGINAL: sevenleaf

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

i'll call BS on that as well. too many guys running the stock bottom end without issue. A buddy of mine made 400+ track passes with a KB in the mid 11s (10psi and 450+rwhp) on the stock bottom end with no issue. IMO that's a lot more abuse than a DD would see with 450 at the tire.


I broke my tranny at 10 psi driven as a daily driver and thats the truth :D


arent we talking motors here?

It's simple....if you are that worried about it, buy the Whipple HO Kit and also buy a Built Motor. ;)

I'm going with a iron block, forged internals, cobra crank and then I'm going to turn up the boost!

Yes, I thought we were talking motors. My trans broke from the suopercharger too but my engine is still healthy. I am over 500 RWHP and still here after 2 years.

I think we are talking about the motor and transmission gentlemen.

ORIGINAL: crazystylin

I think we are talking about the motor and transmission gentlemen.




just read your first post again... no mention of tranny

It goes without saying we all have to pay to play. If we want more power, it cost more $$ and puts stresses on parts we don't think about. If you want more power but can't deal with the thought of blowing your motor because of a tune, boost spike, bad gas, manufacture defect or whatever, then stay away from modding beyond bolt ons.

It seems the Ford rep was talking out his ass. If it were truly an SC kit that made your motor a ticking bomb then it wouldn't be as popular as it is. The whipple is a good kit. Ofcourse it will reduce engine life and cause stresses other places, but to come up with a number of 20k miles? Please show me the numbers behind that.

and +1 billion to motor failures coming from tune issues. . .

Dont be scuuuured

did the dealer mention getting variable valve timing and lift electronic control before a s/c install

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: EricM

ORIGINAL: moosestang

Roush has their own warranty and of course they aren't pushing much power. Saleen has a warranty, but there are a lot of requirements, like it being installed at a saleen authorized dealer and running the saleen tune. If brenspeed installs your saleen, I doubt seriously that your local dealer is going to warranty anything.


Brenspeed is a Speedlab facility, so as long as you don't get one of their Stage packages and stick with the 475 HP Saleen tune, you'll have the remainder of your 3/35 warranty from Saleen.



Well why doesn't brenspeed mention that? You'd think that'd be a big selling point if it were true. I see nothing on saleens site or brenspeed claiming any kind of warranty with the 475hp package.


On their main web page in the ad that changes every few seconds one says Authorized Saleen Speedlab Installation Facility. It also says that in the descriptions for both of the SCs that use the Saleen tune. And read the description of the third car down.

http://www.brenspeed.com/customers/index.html

[sm=noooo.gif] That rep is full of BS.

Like everything in Life there is balance of Risk and Reward.

First some of the stuff is just plain wrong. Like for 1 FRPP sends you a 91 octane tune. Second I did tons of research before I purchased and I didnt come across anyone who broke their motor with the Whipple HO kit as delivered. Bolt it on, put on the FRPP tune and drive it. Chances of breakage are small.

Anytime you start to modify the car you have to plan for the worst. Too many variables out there, but the probability is low. Use some common sense when you drive and dont push the envelope and you motor will last a long time. If you are really worried just buy the HO and run the 8psi pulley. I would bet my car that the motor would last 100k miles with the 8psi pulley and FRPP tune and make 420rwhp.

IMO the reward is worth the risk, but is you dont have the $$ to play, stay out of the sand box.

If I popped my motor I would be pretty PO'd for about 15mins, then I would be stoked, since a forged SB would be on the way and that means more boost :D.

Lifes too short have fun.

ive got over 20000 miles on my roush car, roughly 8 after turning up the boost and reprogramming it it hasnt give me the least bit of trouble

I stand correct. They should put that on the sales page for those that need a warranty to feel safe.:eek:

I still wouldn't hold my breath if you are one of the unlucky ones with a weak rod from the factory. Saleen will just say the stock rod was defective.:D

ORIGINAL: EricM


On their main web page in the ad that changes every few seconds one says Authorized Saleen Speedlab Installation Facility. It also says that in the descriptions for both of the SCs that use the Saleen tune. And read the description of the third car down.

http://www.brenspeed.com/customers/index.html

Sounds to me like that Ford rep needs to be banished from talking to customers. Get the intercooled version if that is what you want. Just make sure you have a reputable tuner standing by when you're done with the installation.

I'm with the majority on this one. I wouldn't put a non cooled version of a ANY FI kit on these cars.

Although many have held over 500 rwhp on the stock motor (myself included for quite a while) any builder/tuner worth a damn will tell you that due to the size of the stock rods, pushing 500+ HP is a matter of time. Motors are not created equal and you may get 2 years or you may get 2 days, but I promise you if you push over 500 rwhp on the stock bottom end, you will eventually be looking for a new motor.

A lot of it also has to do with how the motor is pushed. A guy making 520 rwhp shifting the car on average 4500-5000 rpm on the street and once in a while going to the track shifting at 6000-6500 rpm actually has a better chance of keeping his motor intact than the guy making 480 rwhp and driving the car hard on the street shifting 6000-6500 and taking it to 7K at the track.

Tuning, of course, plays a big factor, but a lot of people forget how the car is driven and spun make a big difference in longevity as well.

Fact - the lower you spin your car, the longer the motor will last (good tunes considered of course)

Even at 450 - if you like to spin your car 7K+ - then you can't expect the car to stay together forever...;)

Sounds to me like that Ford rep needs to be banished from talking to customers.

Sad but very true...:)

ORIGINAL: crazystylin

Last night I found out that a relative works for Ford and can get all parts close to 1/2 off.

Of course, I start drooling. I call a random Ford dealership today and start chatting with a parts rep. I inquired as to the 500HP Whipple HO.

He started in on me and said that I may want to stick with the non-IC version because the HO will put significant pressure on my bottom end, and will severely decrease engine life - throw bearings, rods, blow gaskets, etc... He also said that the system was designed for 93 octane, and while you could tune for 91 (I live in CA and 93= unavailable) one would have to purchase the highest quality 91 (not Costco, ARCO, Al's gasoline, etc..)

He said that applying that much HP that Whipple HO will break something in 20K miles!!!!!!!!!!!

He said for daily driving applicatons it may be best to run less HP. He then said that the 400HP non-IC kit is still plenty powerful but puts less stress on the engine.

This may ring true to a degree, it is a fact that the more HP you have the more engine stress. But what is the truth? Only those whipple HO owners with over 20K miles can be the judge.

HOW MANY MILES DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR WHIPPLE HO?

The rep may have been right, he may have been overly cautious, or he may not know much (unlikely).

So while I am sure that most of you will defend your Whipple to the grave, what say you to this Ford Rep's characterization of WHipple HOs?

Engine Killer or Engine Friend.


The person who you spoke to obviously doesn't know what they're talking about. Ask them how many kits they've sold and how their customers cars are running. He'll most likely tell you he hasn't sold one but has a friend of a friend who has a friend who knows someone who's got a Whipple. As Whipple's largest US distributor I've sold more HO Kits than any single dealer. We actually released the 05 HO Kits for Whipple before Ford Racing took delivery of them. To this day I haven't heard from any of our customers on an engine failure at all. 10 psi though the intercooled setup is just as safe as 6-7psi through no intercooler. Granted anything could happen but the Whipple HO is far from how you decided to name this thread. Instead it should be called " I spoke to an idiot at Ford".

Jared

Boostaddict... thats a good idea...maybe I should change the title of this thread to "I spoke to an idiot at Ford"!;)

ORIGINAL: mygt500

Boostaddict... thats a good idea...maybe I should change the title of this thread to "I spoke to an idiot at Ford"!;)


PLEASE, lol.

ORIGINAL: modaddict


Even at 450 - if you like to spin your car 7K+ - then you can't expect the car to stay together forever...;)





7k! I shift at 5800, mostly because the limiter is still at 6250 and my shifting is slowwwwwwww! I was shifting at 6100 at the track and hitting the rev limiter.:eek:

You go forced induction you will get owned sooner or later.......mine was sooner.

ORIGINAL: moosestang

ORIGINAL: modaddict


Even at 450 - if you like to spin your car 7K+ - then you can't expect the car to stay together forever...;)





7k!Â* I shift at 5800, mostly because the limiter is still at 6250 and my shifting is slowwwwwwww!Â* I was shifting at 6100 at the track and hitting the rev limiter.:eek:



That's because your limiter is set there. You can set it for whatever you want. Mine is set at 7500...;)

BTW: Sutton shifts their S197 set-up at 8200!...[8D]

ORIGINAL: modaddict


That's because your limiter is set there. You can set it for whatever you want. Mine is set at 7500...;)

BTW: Sutton shifts their S197 set-up at 8200!...[8D]


I don't have a custom tune, so I can't change it. That's ok though, because the only thing I'd change is the fan temps. 8200rpms is nucking futz! That must sound really sweet.

Setting the fan temps activation lower is a good idea for the coming heat. I have mine all on as soon as the key is turned and stay on...;)

Just kidding about Sutton. Not really, the DO shift at 8200 but it sure ain't no 3V in that S197...[8D]

The high side for the 3V's IMO is 7200. I like around 6800 at the track now.