Hey everyone, im new here but a have a few questions unanswered after research on here. 1) I am building a 351W going into a 94-94 SN95 gt mustang. I want to twin turbo it. One problem I keep running into is that i cant find any exhaust manifolds that will house twin turbos (T3 flange i assume ill be going with) on a 351w and fit in a sn95 body. Can anybody shed wome light on the subject for me?? links greatly appreciated!
2) and also, i see everybody saying its ok to get junkyard T3 turbos (matching of course) and rebuild them o save a little cash, but mos junkyard turbos i see are internally gated. Im not a noob on turbo's but not a pro either, so can anybody tell me if you can make it to where they can be externally gated? Or would i have to go by 2 turbo's with out an internal wastegate?
3) i've learned alot over the last few days that i have been lurking and looking here, great looking mustangs people, thanks for the help! Todd C. VA
Posts: 531
Joined: 2/22/2008 From: L.I. New York Status: offline
todd. i dont know too much about sn95s so i really cant answer your first question. as for 2 id go with aftermarket turbos like masterpower, and then get a boost controller, although i think my cheap turbonetics vbc can be used on factory wastegates as well.
_____________________________
FLOODZILLA Screw disney, A junkyard is the happiest place on earth!
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2907
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: online
1. The best thing you can do as far as fitment if you're not looking to do alot of work is find some factory headers (from any 5.0 mustangs) & put them kinda close to your headers & eyeball it to see if clearance will be an issue. Some clearance issues can be fixed with heating them up & bending, some can't.
If necessary though you can make your own header with stock headers (just for the flange piece that bolts to the block) or using a thick sheet of steel & making the bolt holes & port to where it would bolt to the head. Then take some mandrel bends & weld them in a shape that will fit. You could either use a log style or tubular. You'll get more power from a tubular design with a collector (or multiple collectors).
If you're making your own header I would recommend using thickwall weld L's to reduce the chance of a stress crack & to help support the turbo. Those are what I use when I make turbo headers & they're very easy to weld. Can be a little pricey though. But they're mandrel bends which is a plus for flow
2. There's nothing wrong with using junkyard turbos if you're low on cash. two .63 a/r (exhaust) t3's from the junkyard will work wonderfully on a 351w. Nothing wrong with running integral wastegated turbos if you're tight on cash.
On the plus side you can always switch to external wastegates later, just unbolt the wastegate, & have a flange made that will cover the old wastegate port. You will have to run some washers where the wastegate bracket bolted (the bracket helps hold the compressor on the backing plate) to make sure there is a perfect seal. Converting them is very simple.
You may not have to rebuild the turbos from the junkyard. Most that I use are in pretty decent shape already, but I personally wouldn't run one unless it's been rebuilt just to satisfy it in my mind that the turbos are in good shape. Rebuild kits are very cheap though. They cost around $60 for all that you'll need for the t3's & they are very very simple to rebuild.
The boost controller will work the same on integral setups as they will on external gated setups. One controller will work for both turbo's, you just have to run the wastegate signal lines into one with a "T" fitting
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
thats the part I start to falter at, how would you integrate turbos onto a factory manifold? Would you cut and weld a T3 and a wastegate flange onto the actual headers?? Is there a tutorial with pictures (lol, i got a childs brain, pictures work best) Thanks for the info guys and not bashing me about asking questions.
Also, i have a list of stock turbo cars, but car anybody elaborate on which cars have a .63AR T3 on them??
< Message edited by theonecalledtod -- 5/9/2008 8:45:01 PM >
351W - .03 over 357ci RHS-200 heads - 9.5 compression LSM custom turbo cam Edlebrock Super Vic EFI intake
Twin Garrett T3/T4 turbos 50/60mm - a/r will be determined by horse power and throttle response you want. Give and take there. I wouldnt go junkyard on the turbos. Some simple Garret T3/T4 hybrids are relatively cheap ($500-600ea.) and give huge piece of mind. small T3 on the exhuast side for good spool up and a T4 on the cold side for good compressor efficiency
BBK shorty headers flipped forward and DIY mild steel downpipes. Was really easy to do.
if this forum had a button to increase reputation, i'de give you as much and possible, lol. Perfect, exactly what i needed to see. so you flip the headers to where it faces foward (i assume it would still bolt to the head like normal without mod?) and then weld on a T3 flange at the end of the header, bolt turbo, bolt downpipe and measure cut weld to exhaust?? Sounds simple when laid out like that
It is simple. BBK shorty headers are plenty strong and 16g mild steel will hold fine if coated. Just put the left on the right and vice versa for instant turbo headers. Then chop off the collector and weld pipe bends on up to the turbo. Just common sense pipe routing from there.
$180 metal cut-off saw and $250 MIg welder to tack everything together. then have someone weld it good for you.
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2907
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: online
quote:
ORIGINAL: theonecalledtod if this forum had a button to increase reputation, i'de give you as much and possible, lol. Perfect, exactly what i needed to see. so you flip the headers to where it faces foward (i assume it would still bolt to the head like normal without mod?) and then weld on a T3 flange at the end of the header, bolt turbo, bolt downpipe and measure cut weld to exhaust?? Sounds simple when laid out like that
You don't just weld the t3 flange to the end of the header. You have to make an up-pipe to go from the header to the flange to extend it a little further, If you just welded the flange to the header you would run into all sorts of fitment issues.
Look at r.barn's... notice the uppipe going from the end of the header to the t3 flange. His headers are switched sides & pointed down, if you run it that way you'll have to angle it back upwards to still use a gravity drain setup. You don't have to switch the header sides you could just flip them upside down so there is less of a bend. & the uppipe is a little simpler & flows a little better aswell.
You don't need to modify the k-member if you flip the headers instead of swapping sides.
< Message edited by FoxGT -- 5/11/2008 6:21:30 PM >
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
1. If you flip the headers upside down the ports will not line up properly Look at the bolt holes on shorty headers. They are offset slightly. I've seen it done on other DIY's but dont know how they make that work correctly
2. When installing a 351 you lose the clearance above headers, due to taller deck height, to run down pipes above headers like they do on 302 TT installs. So you have to run downpipes under the engine ....... thus requiring tubular k-member.
I made it fit with a stock k-member but it was REALLY tight and did not like it.
_____________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2907
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: online
quote:
ORIGINAL: r.barn 1. If you flip the headers upside down the ports will not line up properly Look at the bolt holes on shorty headers. They are offset slightly. I've seen it done on other DIY's but dont know how they make that work correctly
2. When installing a 351 you lose the clearance above headers, due to taller deck height, to run down pipes above headers like they do on 302 TT installs. So you have to run downpipes under the engine ....... thus requiring tubular k-member.
I made it fit with a stock k-member but it was REALLY tight and did not like it.
You can either bore the holes out slightly larger & run a washer (if necessary) or grind a little on one side of each hole to make it line up properly. At least that's what I do. As far as the holes in the gaskets not lining up, I never run exhaust gaskets on ANY turbocharged car I build... not mine or any of the kits i build, I use permatex ultra copper. It has held up better without leak than anything else. (& cost less)
I was referring to running the down pipes under the headers rather than over with stock kmember & no fitment issues. I've never seen a kit that ran them over actually.
< Message edited by FoxGT -- 5/11/2008 10:52:09 PM >
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
Thanks for the help guys, sorry for making you think and argue too hard, lol. This is going to be a long time project (i have to sell my 204 SRT-4 before i can really fund this project properly) but in the end i hope to have a nasty car. R.barn, how much boost are you running, is your engine built, and how much horsepower are you making (1/4 mile time??) if you don't mind me asking, i just want to get an outline of what to expect here. Also, how much power would the block take, forged internals and such, just how much wil the stock bore cyl. walls handle before running into problems. Sorry for all the questions guys. todd
Posts: 531
Joined: 2/22/2008 From: L.I. New York Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: theonecalledtod
Thanks for the help guys, sorry for making you think and argue too hard, lol. This is going to be a long time project (i have to sell my 204 SRT-4 before i can really fund this project properly) but in the end i hope to have a nasty car. R.barn, how much boost are you running, is your engine built, and how much horsepower are you making (1/4 mile time??) if you don't mind me asking, i just want to get an outline of what to expect here. Also, how much power would the block take, forged internals and such, just how much wil the stock bore cyl. walls handle before running into problems. Sorry for all the questions guys. todd
you got a srt4? what mods it got, my neighbors got 2, and there pretty sick!
_____________________________
FLOODZILLA Screw disney, A junkyard is the happiest place on earth!
wastegate actuator, blow of valve, hardpipes, just basics. 13.6 quarter mile time. Selling for 14g's with 2k miles on a brand new tranny. Its a great car, but i need funding for the project.
Mopar makes stages for them, basically all it is is an overpriced aftermarket package that doesn't void warrenty if bought and installed at an authorized mopar retailer. Only one worth while is the stage 3, which is about $3500. Slightly bigger turbo, bigger injectors, new computer, map tip sensors, new exhaust manifold. Big thing is the computers "dial a boost." It lets you pick a number (0,1,2,3) from the drivers seat and adjusts boost and timing accordingly. 3 in "high octane" mode cranks out right at 365HP on a bone stock motor with stage 3 installed ( 12.6 1/4 miles on average)
how much power would the block take, forged internals and such, just how much wil the stock bore cyl. walls handle before running into problems. Sorry for all the questions guys. todd
351 will handle 600rwhp fine and you can push them to 700+rwhp if you want to ride the edge. older 1969-71 blocks are a bit stronger if you can find one.
Stock crank is very strong. Stock rods are the weak link as far as internals go.
one over bore of .030 is all I would do on a boosted engine.
_____________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Printable Version
twin turbo 5.8 few questions - 
