Posts: 1337
Joined: 12/19/2006 From: Northern California Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: BicketyBam
quote:
ORIGINAL: cacimar
quote:
ORIGINAL: airforceus
I think you have the win on a stock GT500. If he spent $1100 on an evolution stage 2 and some gears I think he would have the edge. Stock for stock, Z06 wins.
Gt-500 stock will be anally destroyed by a C6 Z06 from a dig or roll
That surprised me. I thought weight becomes less of an issue from a roll.
That's what I was thinking when I watched it. Someone mentioned the drag coefficent, weight, suspension and power numbers, comparing them to make the outcome make sense, but it still doesn't make sense to me. 140 HP is a huge difference. A friend of mine has GT500 with 610 rwhp who runs in the high 120's @11.1, which should easily take most of the street driven C6Z's. We all knoe there has been a select few C6Zs in the high 10's but it's the exception. If I was going to guess the problem, it would be a sandbagged HP number from the C6Z or an inflated number from the GT500, or alittle of both. Again we are dealing with dyno numbers. Dyno numbers can be created/inflated so race outcomes and trap numbers seem to be more representative of power numbers.
I remember a thread comparing the C6 stock suspension and HP numbers to the C6Z. A 70-80 rwhp difference and a few hundred pounds equal almost a full second or more in 1/4 mile ETs and times. I don't see the suspension, on either car, playinga large part in the outcome of this race.
610hp and going 11.10's and trapping 120's, that about 150-200 more than a vette would need to run that number. I would say it should only need 500-530 for it to go those numbers. But you are right about a select few going good numbers.
_____________________________
2002 CORVETTE Z06 just your average 10second c5z06
who cares who much hp you have or what car you own. Can you drive it?
FOR SALE 2003 busa stockmotor stockwheelbase 9.19@151mph
I just sent him this email. If this don't get him to put up or shut up, I don't know what will
quote:
Hey Mike,
Why did you have to get Gene all worked up about your GT500 vs. his Z06? :) I'm the guy to talk to! Let me give you some insight. You used to own a C5. You know the new base C6 is now 430 bhp, right? This isn't your old Corvette. Plus with the C6 Z06 you get:
All aluminum frame (weight savings) Carbon fiber front fenders (weight savings) Magnesium engine cradle (weight savings) Magnesium roof (weight savings) Carbon fiber wrapped Balsa wood floorboard (weight savings) 505 HP 427 Cubic Inch Motor 3" Exhaust with 4" tips and dual mode mufflers activated by RPM. Wider front and rear fenders Wider opening front fascia 14" 6 piston front and 13" 4 piston rear brakes. Cross drilled. Front and rear brakes air cooled. Rear fender has integrated air scoops. Front air splitter Front fender air diffusers Rear air diffuser Front cold air scoop 18x9.5 front wheels 19x12 rear wheels Engine moved back further to help achieve 50/50 balance. Battery mounted in hatch 8qt dry sump oil system Oil, transmission, differential, and power steering coolers Taller rear spoiler
Now throw in the fact that our Z's have a tune and an intake, which add ~30 rwhp. The car is 3,150 pounds. Do the math. The showroom stock record in the quarter is 10.981 seconds at 128.9 mph. A cripple could run a high 11 in this car.
I love your Ford GT500. In fact, I almost bought one. But it's not going to hang with a Z06. Your car weighs 4,000 pounds. It's shaped like a brick compared to the Z06. The Z is going to leave you like you were tied to a stump. Those are the facts. The best time I could find for a stock GT500 is 12.257 at 117 mph.
But forget about paper racing. I will be more than happy to line them up out on Route 120. My county cop buddy, Lieutenant Dave will make sure it's cool. We can go from a full stop or a roll - makes no difference to me. I'll tell you right now that you are going to be staring at the ass end of my yellow Z06 while I put a bus length on you. It'll be fun. Just let me know when. I am also up for a trip to Englishtown where we can run "legally". Just throwing it out there. Take care - come by with the car someday. You said I could drive it, remember?
Ed Condreras
Dang I didn't realize the Z06 had all those wieght saving mods. 3200 actually seems kind of heavy for having all that. A fox body mustang is all steel body, frame etc as far as I know and it is lighter than the z06
are we serioouly going to argue this!!!! Who in the world would compare a fox body against a C6 Z06 weight wise ? With today safty standards seeing a car with 505 bhp weighing only 3150lbs is a very tought task to achieved fella.
< Message edited by cacimar -- 5/10/2008 2:06:25 PM >
Posts: 851
Joined: 6/14/2007 From: San Antonio, Texas Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: BrazoriaStang
Dang I didn't realize the Z06 had all those wieght saving mods. 3200 actually seems kind of heavy for having all that. A fox body mustang is all steel body, frame etc as far as I know and it is lighter than the z06
I don't know why they didn't just give the Gt500 a blown 3v 4.6. I bet it would have been faster with all the weight savings from the aluminum block versus the iron fat-as in the 5.4.
_____________________________
05' Mustang GT K&N 63 series intake Flowmaster Axlebacks Back to factory tune for now.....
Team MF Member #069 Posts: 8254
Joined: 5/21/2004 Status: offline
You only save about 75-80lbs with a aluminium block, that's hardly a drop in the bucket plus you lose the advantage of actually having some cubic inches.
I have no problem with the GT500. Cars are just much heavier these days, as already mentioned. People get hung up on the 500 bhp and start comparing it to other 500 hp cars, namely the Z06. Apples and oranges. The Z06 is a track bred sports car that costs $70k. The GT500 is a muscle/boulevard car that costs $42k (in a perfect world). You need more hp these days to push these heavy cars. The bottom line is hp/wt ratio. Ford wanted a mid 12 second performance out of the car,and 500 hp did the job. For 4 seat muscle cars, that is the new trend. Challenger, Camaro, GT500.....all heavy and all will need more hp then the muscle cars of the past. We better get used to it.
Team MF Member #069 Posts: 8254
Joined: 5/21/2004 Status: offline
It's funny you mention the old muscle cars Ed, I have meet many people who think those old cars were super heavy. My 69 Super Bee was only about 3400 lbs the only light weight stuff was the hood and wheels.
are we serioouly going to argue this!!!! Who in the world would compare a fox body against a C6 Z06 weight wise ? With today safty standards seeing a car with 505 bhp weighing only 3150lbs is a very tought task to achieved fella. [/quote
Can you tell me some safety standard differences between 1993 and now that adds weight?
A bigger factor ( no pun intended) is that cars are larger overall now
It's funny you mention the old muscle cars Ed, I have meet many people who think those old cars were super heavy. My 69 Super Bee was only about 3400 lbs the only light weight stuff was the hood and wheels.
I ran into a guy with a restored 73 Camaro (friggin' beautiful). I used to have a '76 and it reminded me of how big those cars were. The hood went on forever. But then the guy said the car weighed 3400 pounds. I was amazed. I guess it is all the safety crap that today's cars have that add a lot of the weight. You can't just chalk it up to size, because this Camaro was pretty damn big. I wish I had my camera with me. The car was hot.
Posts: 851
Joined: 6/14/2007 From: San Antonio, Texas Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: BicketyBam
quote:
ORIGINAL: JD1969
It's funny you mention the old muscle cars Ed, I have meet many people who think those old cars were super heavy. My 69 Super Bee was only about 3400 lbs the only light weight stuff was the hood and wheels.
I ran into a guy with a restored 73 Camaro (friggin' beautiful). I used to have a '76 and it reminded me of how big those cars were. The hood went on forever. But then the guy said the car weighed 3400 pounds. I was amazed. I guess it is all the safety crap that today's cars have that add a lot of the weight. You can't just chalk it up to size, because this Camaro was pretty damn big. I wish I had my camera with me. The car was hot.
All the safety equipment in todays muscle compared to old muscle is amazing. If the 73 Camaro you were talkin about was the same size as say a 02 SS, it would weigh a lot less I'd imagine.
GT500 that ran 9's with slicks, tune, pulley, full exhaust, and 75 shot. (so they claim)
Can someone please send me a link where evolution inc. made a 660+ rwhp on a gt-500 with a pulley, tune, and 75 shot that ran 9. Im just not buying that!!!! Again not the video where it runs 9 but rather the mods done to it.
They first broke into 10s with: 578 RWHP and 582 RWTQ
They broke into the 9s as aforementioned with: 664 RWHP and 778 RWTQ ...these are on a Mustang Dyno
Mods: 2.5" Pulley JLT Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake System Stainless Works Long Tube Headers 3” Exhaust System with X-Pipe 4.10 Gears 75 Shot of Nitrous Custom Tune using SCT Advantage III Software
Going back to that video of the modified GT500 vs. modified Z06. I am guessing the Z06 with headers, tune, CAI would be near the 500whp mark. Doing the math that would put the Z06 comperable to the GT500 at 640whp for power to weight.
Why I don't understand is why he would race the Z06 from a roll where he is at a disadvantage. The lower drag coefficient of the Z06 gives it a decisive advantage. The GT500 would have a better chance in the 1/4. I've always felt a roll race was somewhat pointless.
Going back to that video of the modified GT500 vs. modified Z06. I am guessing the Z06 with headers, tune, CAI would be near the 500whp mark. Doing the math that would put the Z06 comperable to the GT500 at 640whp for power to weight.
Why I don't understand is why he would race the Z06 from a roll where he is at a disadvantage. The lower drag coefficient of the Z06 gives it a decisive advantage. The GT500 would have a better chance in the 1/4. I've always felt a roll race was somewhat pointless.
From a roll, the GT500 weight disadvantage becomes less of an issue. From a dig, if the Z06 is launched properly, things will get ugly quick. 640hp in a heavy car with stock tires = death.
Posts: 851
Joined: 6/14/2007 From: San Antonio, Texas Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRogers
quote:
ORIGINAL: lieu910
Going back to that video of the modified GT500 vs. modified Z06. I am guessing the Z06 with headers, tune, CAI would be near the 500whp mark. Doing the math that would put the Z06 comperable to the GT500 at 640whp for power to weight.
Why I don't understand is why he would race the Z06 from a roll where he is at a disadvantage. The lower drag coefficient of the Z06 gives it a decisive advantage. The GT500 would have a better chance in the 1/4. I've always felt a roll race was somewhat pointless.
From a roll, the GT500 weight disadvantage becomes less of an issue. From a dig, if the Z06 is launched properly, things will get ugly quick. 640hp in a heavy car with stock tires = death.
He never said anything about being on stock tires?
Going back to that video of the modified GT500 vs. modified Z06. I am guessing the Z06 with headers, tune, CAI would be near the 500whp mark. Doing the math that would put the Z06 comperable to the GT500 at 640whp for power to weight.
Why I don't understand is why he would race the Z06 from a roll where he is at a disadvantage. The lower drag coefficient of the Z06 gives it a decisive advantage. The GT500 would have a better chance in the 1/4. I've always felt a roll race was somewhat pointless.
From a roll, the GT500 weight disadvantage becomes less of an issue. From a dig, if the Z06 is launched properly, things will get ugly quick. 640hp in a heavy car with stock tires = death.
He never said anything about being on stock tires?
Team MF Member #885 Posts: 2621
Joined: 12/4/2005 Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 08 Bullitt 2310
On the subject of weight and size,Has anyone seen where they park a new Challenger in front of an old Challenger.It makes the new car look HUGE!
Thats because it is huge. Its a two-door 300C. Look at the size difference between the '79-'04 mustangs and the S197 cars. Look at the difference between a '65 K-code fastack mustang compared to a S197. New cars are big.
_____________________________
quote:
Warning: Clif is extremely snide, sarcastic, and a little crazy
Printable Version
RE: Guy with a stock GT500 talking smack about the Z06 - 
