The fact is... the confederacy broke apart from our country and were set on destroying the north. Where is the "United" in that? They were a rebel force, killing fellow Americans. I dont see anything in that worth being proud about. Personally, if i had a family member who fought for the confederacy I wouldn't want to flaunt it...
The difference between the nazi's and the confederacy, is that the nazi's actually took control of germany whereas the confederacy did not. The swatsitica was used to represent the new germany, where the confederate flag was used to represent the south.
Sure, the confederacy was not focused on destroying (only enslaving) millions of lives like the nazi party was, but they were intent on destroying and overthrowing the current government. I.E. Rebels. Do we celebrate traitors? No. Why would we celebrate rebels?
You could argue against this by saying that the 'south never really suceeded from the Union. It was only an attempt.'
Yeah, but that just makes the CSA a group of criminals who still killed thousands and thousands and thousands of American soldiers who fought under the American flag, and tried to destroy the United States of America.
As a historical symbol the battle flag is important. As a modern day symbol... eh. And it definately shouldn't be part of a state symbol; if a state flies a flag with part of the old stars and bars in it, they should be made to change it... as I said before, it is a symbol of rebellion and fighting against the US. A state is now a part of that self-same government, so it seems silly to have it.
Most people would agree, as you said, that it is a real good thing the US won. Can you imagine if there still was a CSA? That would be so, so bizarre. Would the two countries be allies? How would WWII have worked? Would the CSA have not gotten involved because Hawaii belonged to the USA? Heck, would the CSA have expanded west and grabbed Cali and the rest? How about illegal immigration from Mexico; how split would it be?
An interesting topic for a book or paper, for sure.
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ORIGINAL: jewel91lx5.0
I don't dislike blacks, jewish people, and mexicans as a whole. I only dislike the majority that I have met or know of.
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ORIGINAL: Lord Ashram
And it definately shouldn't be part of a state symbol; if a state flies a flag with part of the old stars and bars in it, they should be made to change it...
They have tried, but it seems history is more important to people than being PC. Back in 2001 they voted to see who wanted to change the flag and only about 30% of the state voted to change it. Funny thing is, almost 40% of the state is black.
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the confederacy going against the union is nothing different than america going against brittain in the revolutionary war.. saying the south was so bad for fighting for what they believed in is retarded.. sure they killed fellow americans but we killed our fellow men during the revolutionary war.. just the south lost this one
short and broad arguement but i'm short on time right now
They have tried, but it seems history is more important to people than being PC. Back in 2001 they voted to see who wanted to change the flag and only about 30% of the state voted to change it. Funny thing is, almost 40% of the state is black.
PC? Hm, I was unaware that not flying the flag of a force that was trying to destroy our country and slaughtered thousands and thousands of American soldiers was simply being PC. Man, and here I was hating Osama Bin Laden for killing only a few thousand Americans! Damn, I am SO PC.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jewel91lx5.0
I don't dislike blacks, jewish people, and mexicans as a whole. I only dislike the majority that I have met or know of.
the confederacy going against the union is nothing different than america going against brittain in the revolutionary war..
yeah but nobody is flying a british flag
Actually youve must of never gone to a revolutionary war park. The Brittish flag is flown right beside the American flag out of respect for those that died on both sides. And the same can be said about the Confederate flag at any civil war park. (EX: Gettysburg etc.)
They have tried, but it seems history is more important to people than being PC. Back in 2001 they voted to see who wanted to change the flag and only about 30% of the state voted to change it. Funny thing is, almost 40% of the state is black.
PC? Hm, I was unaware that not flying the flag of a force that was trying to destroy our country and slaughtered thousands and thousands of American soldiers was simply being PC. Man, and here I was hating Osama Bin Laden for killing only a few thousand Americans! Damn, I am SO PC.
Well, this is totally different. You gota remember the civil war was brother vs brother. Both sides were Americans the south was mainly fighting for there homes and property. They viewed the North as invading agressors. Americans died on both sides north and south they just supported different ideals.
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ORIGINAL: nghtrnnr
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ORIGINAL: 03_gt_woowee
the confederacy going against the union is nothing different than america going against brittain in the revolutionary war..
yeah but nobody is flying a british flag
bs i have a neighbor who does
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They have tried, but it seems history is more important to people than being PC. Back in 2001 they voted to see who wanted to change the flag and only about 30% of the state voted to change it. Funny thing is, almost 40% of the state is black.
PC? Hm, I was unaware that not flying the flag of a force that was trying to destroy our country and slaughtered thousands and thousands of American soldiers was simply being PC. Man, and here I was hating Osama Bin Laden for killing only a few thousand Americans! Damn, I am SO PC.
You cant say that we (the south) slaughtered americans. The north was fighting agaisnt us for their own beliefs we where just defending our land and our territory. Believe it or not we (the south) are american citizens too. so the north slaughtered thousands and thousands of American Solders too. you cant blame us for defending ourselves.
I think it is a part of history, but its not a good part of history. I dont think it should be erased from history. I think it should still be shown in museums to show what it looked like, but I think since it does have so many different meanings, and offends many people, it shouldnt be flown. I think a person can find another way to have a little bit of history if they feel it is a part of who they are. I personally have a couple of confederate states of america dollars. it is money that belonged to some of my relatives. Those pieces of money dont hurt anyone, and nobody is offended by them because they are mine, and are locked in the safe. I think its kinda of silly to say that you are flying the confederate flag for heritage reasons or to honor your fallen relatives. Come on.....those people died a very long time ago, and I am sure there have been innumerable other relatives that have died since then. What do you carry to symbolize the rest of them? I guess I typed all of this to say that i dont think it right to fly it because it offends, and why should we want to offend anyone when we can just know the history without hurting anyone.
ORIGINAL: apexmustang You cant say that we (the south) slaughtered americans. The north was fighting agaisnt us for their own beliefs we where just defending our land and our territory. Believe it or not we (the south) are american citizens too. so the north slaughtered thousands and thousands of American Solders too. you cant blame us for defending ourselves.
Uh, yes I can say that. The South slaughtered Americans. Southern soldiers shot dead thousands and thousands of American soldiers, men whose regiments still exist and serve in the United States military today, and men who fought under the American flag. How can you possibly deny that?
"The North," as you put it, was THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The USA.
People who live in the southern states are american citizens today, sure, but back then... not so much. They left the union, remember?
The United States did not slaughter thousands and thousands of American soldiers. The US slaughtered thousands and thousands of soldiers of the Confederate States of America. USA and CSA are two different things
As for blaming the South for defending itself, no of course I don't blame them. When you are attacked, you defend yourself. However, that doesn't change any of the above facts.
< Message edited by Lord Ashram -- 5/4/2008 8:20:36 PM >
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jewel91lx5.0
I don't dislike blacks, jewish people, and mexicans as a whole. I only dislike the majority that I have met or know of.
ORIGINAL: apexmustang You cant say that we (the south) slaughtered americans. The north was fighting agaisnt us for their own beliefs we where just defending our land and our territory. Believe it or not we (the south) are american citizens too. so the north slaughtered thousands and thousands of American Solders too. you cant blame us for defending ourselves.
Uh, yes I can say that. The South slaughtered Americans. Southern soldiers shot dead thousands and thousands of American soldiers, men whose regiments still exist and serve in the United States military today, and men who fought under the American flag. How can you possibly deny that?
"The North," as you put it, was THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The USA.
People who live in the southern states are american citizens today, sure, but back then... not so much. They left the union, remember?
As for blaming the South for defending itself, no of course I don't blame them. When you are attacked, you defend yourself. However, that doesn't change any of the above facts.
There would be no USA if it wasnt for the southern states. They were the back bone of the revolution. Now with that said it could also be argued if the civil war didnt happen slavery would of lasted longer in the south and maybe even more abroad. (but eventually died out with the invent of the cotton gin etc.) I find it odd when people want to make it sound like the confederate flag is the root of all evil but in all reality you could view the United States flag in the same light. Why did slavery continue for long after it was stated that "all men are created equal"?
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because the words were written on white paper
j/k
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ORIGINAL: Joolander
hmmmm
well let me answer your question with another question:
is a swastika considered german heritage?
True. Because swastika was enherited from Egyptians. As far as confederate flag goes its really all about how people are educated about certain things. Different people will interpret it differently.
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