Installed JDM's 550 kit, late this afternoon, everything seems fine, lot's of power !!!!

Need to get on Dyno to checkout A/F.

How does it feel compared to the 475 kit you used to have? do you notice a sizeable difference? Do you feel more low end/high end torque?

Make sure to give us a thorough review once you've tested it out...I'm sure other people are wondering as well.

+1 to evil

At the dyno Saturday, should have more experience with the extra power by then.

I wish I had ther 475 first. I did the JDM stage II which I thought was about the same thing, and it is amazing. I Would hope that he can easily tell the difference within a matter of a minute to be honest.

I should think so.... it goes from a 3.875" pulley to a 2.875" pulley

ORIGINAL: Hito

I should think so.... it goes from a 3.875" pulley to a 2.875" pulley


Actually it was 4.0,3.8,3.6,3.2, in this order not the economically way to go, but doing the installs myself saved alot and learned alot, so I'm still ahead.

gadway41, can you please tell me what the 550 kit consists of? I have the JDM stage II, and do not see anything that says 550. I am wondering what is different other than the pulley. Mine came with a 3.4. Thanks!

ORIGINAL: desant89

gadway41, can you please tell me what the 550 kit consists of? I have the JDM stage II, and do not see anything that says 550. I am wondering what is different other than the pulley. Mine came with a 3.4. Thanks!


desant89:

The 3.2 pulley, Dual Fuel Pumps, and tune = JDM 550 HP kit.

I believe Saleen's version of the 550 uses a 2.875 pulley.

I'm told the "Tune" makes up the difference.

hey i just got my JDM 550 kit installed last weekend by JDM...I will go back to them next weekend for the dyno and tune. Im curious to see what Power your gunna put out. I love the added power its amazing. Where are u getting your dyno done?

I'm having it done in Hudson, Nh.

I wanted to be safe so Jim put me around 460 RWHP. Saturday I'll know for sure.

Verdict ! Bad News.

Automatic Transmission is now only a slipping transmission.

It soon was very apparrent that Dynoing these cars aren't such a good idea.

When your on the street with this much horsepower the rear tire spinning is the weakest link, on a Dyno the wheels can't spin, so were does all the stresses go "the transmission" so much for a safe tune.

So needless to say I'm Very Disappointed !! What started out as a nice Sunny day became crappy quick. Take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epgHD5SeoiA

The snowball is rolling downhill. First the tranny, then the diff, then the bottom end. Been there, done that. Sorry for your bad news.

ORIGINAL: gadway41
When your on the street with this much horsepower the rear tire spinning is the weakest link, on a Dyno the wheels can't spin, so were does all the stresses go "the transmission" so much for a safe tune.


^^I'm baffled by your statements... UNLESS somebody at the dyno shop effed up and had the dyno's roller brake on or not totally disengaged and you torque converter took the brunt of it.

Dynos do not hurt transmissions under normal circumstances.

Polk,

I watched the guy doing the Dyno, actually his third time on my car. I was on the 2005-2008 mustang forum and brought this up and another long time member brought this same issue up:

Other than that I would not be suprised if the dyno got it. They will kill a clutch in a manual as well when it never slips on the street.
I know JDM is big on tight belts butmy guess is the low numbers are from the tranny slipping on the dyno.
If the belt was to looseit would feel slower on the steet than it did in the previous tune.

Doesn't it make sense these mustangs with automatic's were original designed to see 300 hp. I'm sure there is a safety factor, but now at 550 hp. the tranny just can't take the torque.

On the street the tire can break loose, on the dyno your still turning the mass of the dyno.

Take a look on the other forum.

I'm not really sure what to do next on this problem.

http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4949339/tm.htm

Check the first page discussion on air/fuel ratios on Kennes site. I believe all this dyno testing is a big waste of your hard earned money. The autos have alot to lose on a dyno. That built up energy has to go somewhere and I believe youare asking for trouble winding up an automatic on a dyno. It willfind the weakest link in your power train. Besides all these HP numbers are a big ego trip in my opinion. 400, 500, 550, 600, who cares!!!! judge it by the thrill in the seat as you're going down the road, not by some number on a dyno sheet. Dyno sheets will cost you in your self sponsored pocket book. Check out the fuel ratio tests on Bells site. They do'nt change!!!!

http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ford-techinfo/05_3VgtTechTips.pdf

ORIGINAL: cobraT

Check the first page discussion on air/fuel ratios on Kennes site. I believe all this dyno testing is a big waste of your hard earned money. The autos have alot to lose on a dyno. That built up energy has to go somewhere and I believe youare asking for trouble winding up an automatic on a dyno. It willfind the weakest link in your power train. Besides all these HP numbers are a big ego trip in my opinion. 400, 500, 550, 600, who cares!!!! judge it by the thrill in the seat as you're going down the road, not by some number on a dyno sheet. Dyno sheets will cost you in your self sponsored pocket book. Check out the fuel ratio tests on Bells site. They do'nt change!!!!

http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ford-techinfo/05_3VgtTechTips.pdf


Keep your 2-cents.

ORIGINAL: gadway41
I'm not really sure what to do next on this problem.


TCI StreetFighter?

ORIGINAL: PolkThug

ORIGINAL: gadway41
I'm not really sure what to do next on this problem.


TCI StreetFighter?



I found this site last night were you ask a question to a Ford expert for money and if there answer seem correct they get paid, what do you guy's think?

Hi, I have a 05 Saleen SC281 Ford Mustang with an automatic ...

Printed From: Just Answer!
Category Name: Ford Questions
Category Description: Ford Repair Questions, Service & Troubleshooting. Car Problem Advice From Ford Service Experts
URL: http://ford.justanswer.com/questions/164zx-hi-05-saleen-sc281-ford-mustang
Printed Date: April 21 2008 at 2:26am


Question: Hi, I have a 05 Saleen SC281 Ford Mustang with an automatic ... [hr]
Posted By: saleen3
Question: Hi, I have a 05 Saleen SC281 Ford Mustang with an automatic ...
Date Posted: April 20 2008at7:53pm

Hi, I have a 05 Saleen SC281 Ford Mustang with an automatic transmission. My problem I just installed a 550 hp JDM upgrade kit 1-week ago and everything worked fine, transmission shifted perfect very precise. I went to the Dyno yesterday to do a couple runs to check my A/F ratio which was fine at 11.6. It was suppose to pull around 460 at the rear wheels, only pulled 416. I call JDM and said it was do to the Belt they supplied me with my upgrade that it was to long and therefore the supercharger pulley was slipping, that seemed reasonable. As I left my Dyno shop I noticed 3rd was very weak. In other words, if I go through the gears manually at about 3000 rpm's 1,2 are fine then when I put it in 3 it's like I put it in neutral, If I back off the gas to about 2000 rpm's 3 will kick in but if I increase the throttle a little faster than a gradual exceleration it acts like it is in neutral and rev's to red line until I back out, 4 and 5 are fine? What is the problem?

Replies: [hr]
Posted By: Vincent
Date Posted: April 20 2008at9:15pm

It sounds like you have burnt up the band for third gear. In an automatic trans, there is a seperate clutch pack or band for each gear in your case the intermediate band applies to a drum. Chances are very good that the band is burnt and no longer to apply any friction against the drum. Hence the slippage.Part of the problem is: That transmission is close to it margins with the power that Saleen is running through it, and then add the reprogrammer and bump up the power. The weakest link is what is going to break first. In your case the transmission.
[hr]
Posted By: saleen3
Date Posted: April 21 2008at2:22am

Reply to Vincent's Post: What is the cheapest way out of this situation?

Jeff, I did have the 12lb 3.2 pulley, the 1075 belt with the Ford V 10 Water pump pulley installed on my car, as well as the revised JDM Street race tune for 12lbs and 10lbs.

I did tell the shop owner here, Don Walsh, about your situation, and Dyno jetting automatics in general. He also feels that it is a dicey proposition with the automatics and high power dyno tuning concerning the transmissions. He is hesitant about dynojetting high power tunes with automatics. I didn't realize this was an issue before.

With a 78 degree shop tempature, and 26% humidity, and a short test drive beforehand, my car pulled a 464rwhp and 440 torque. The shop agreed that this tune with a cool temp dyno @ 70 degrees and no heat soak would yield 475rwhp as a standard. The belt and arrangement seems to be correct with no belt slack or slippage. My A/F ratio has returned to an acceptable average as well, although it is still a bit rich from 3900-5000rpm.

I am very sorry about the transmission issue that occurred. I'll give you a call to see what more you've found out, Erik

ORIGINAL: cobraT

"....all these HP numbers are a big ego trip in my opinion. 400, 500, 550, 600, who cares!!!! judge it by the thrill in the seat as you're going down the road, not by some number on a dyno sheet....."


I mean no offense to gadway, anda harsher than I would have said it, but I agree. I think the curiousity gets the best of us sometimes and with all the talk of HP numbers and it is fascinating to watch numbers go up with mods, but this is a major reason I decided NOT to go with an s/c. I would get caught up in the same thing, and would open myself up to more expense.

Again, I am sorry to hear this gadway [&o]Do you need to replace trans or just build it up with a new kit. I don't know much about auto trans.

Good luck with getting resolved :)

Jazzer

Im really not sure what caused this problem. It is definatley the first problem i have seen or heard of. Our Blue car, the 2005 Saleen race car, has gone through 1 tranmission. But this was pushing 600 HP at the tires and after a full season of drag racing with it. Now thats pulling 1.4 or better 60 foots (talk about load on the trans!) We replaced the busted trans with another stock trans and ran it all of last season and even at this years FFW orlando race. The blue car may not be seen at many races this year but our 25th anniversary car will be, it will be to the same spec as the blue car but will weigh about 100-200lbs more than the blue car. It too will run on the stock 5R55S trans.

Not just saying that it can hold a 1/4 mile blast from a 600 HP race car but we have literally hundreds of guys out there with the stock trans, the 550 kit, and street drive their cars daily. EOlson is a prime example of what you can expect with our kit.

No one likes to see these situations, i never had one like this happen before. It leads me to believe that something else was the determining factor in the failure of the trans. Maybe it was destined from factory. Its really hard to say. I want to make sure Jeff is taken care of and i have tried to make every stepin this situation toward the direction of doing so.I really dont feel it has to do with our kit however based on our track record but non the less it happened, jeff's a good guy, and no one anticipated this.

JimIII

Very well said Jim !

I agree, well said. It is a terrible thing that happened, and I am sure if we had seen a thread like this previously, gadway may not of have even had the car dyno'd. I know if I ever have an automatic, I will not. Even though that the dyno may not be the cause, it sounds like it is what pushed it over the edge. It may of have failed in the future without any upgrades or it may not of have. I do not look at this as a reflection of the JDM kit as we do not know if this was already coming or not. However, now that we do know this, I am hoping we learn from this. I totally trust JDM, and their canned tunes as they have done so many of them, but with an auto, I would let their hard work, and experience at creating those tunes benefit me as I cannot easily afford to repair/replace a trans. Of course, I am saying this after the fact, and would not of have known this if it was not for this very unfortunate experience.

Best of luck to gadway, please keep us posted.

When I previously posted I meant no disrespect to you,gadway. I feel for you, and your situation. I have spent few of my years rebuilding and building some pretty fast turbo 400's in my youth. I wrenched for GM for quite a few years and now I get razzed alot for my Mustang now. We did not have dynos back in the day. You built it and went to the track. Technology is a beautiful thing. My issue today is dynos and automatics. No absolute way to disengage. You always have a fluid coupling somewhere. I squirm every time I see Speed Channel winding up an automatic on a dyno. I think its like spinning a bicycle wheel and stopping it with a stick. Keep it on the tire your OK, but slip and it goes thru the spokes is another story. You have my VERY BEST WISHES for a speedy recovery.

Tom

good stuff!

CobraT.....I know where your original comment was coming from and can appreciate that. But keep in mind, most of us that have hit one or two or whateverdyno tunesare doing it so we don't see our motors go poof with forcedinduction applications (or for the NAfolks...to maximize their gains).

The rwhp/rwtq numbers are just an FYI and let you know whether or not the $$$$ you spent on mods was worth while.

Besides, if you've seen dynocharts inmiles per hour (rather than RPM's), which I'm sure you have, you realize that tuners would have to run your car up to around 120-130 or soMPH in 3rd or 4th gear on an open highway to get a good read on what your A/F ratios look like around redline at those speeds. I'm sure not many are in favor of that methodology.

Just an alternative viewpoint......we're not all out for ego trips ;).

If your dyno shop is frying torque converters and clutches on the dyno, its time to find a new shop.

ORIGINAL: mills281e

CobraT.....I know where your original comment was coming from and can appreciate that. But keep in mind, most of us that have hit one or two or whateverdyno tunesare doing it so we don't see our motors go poof with forcedinduction applications (or for the NAfolks...to maximize their gains).

The rwhp/rwtq numbers are just an FYI and let you know whether or not the $$$$ you spent on mods was worth while.

Besides, if you've seen dynocharts inmiles per hour (rather than RPM's), which I'm sure you have, you realize that tuners would have to run your car up to around 120-130 or soMPH in 3rd or 4th gear on an open highway to get a good read on what your A/F ratios look like around redline at those speeds. I'm sure not many are in favor of that methodology.

Just an alternative viewpoint......we're not all out for ego trips ;).


Mills !

I couldn't have put it any better thankyou.

I just wanted to make sure my tune was safe after installing my Dual Fuel Pumps caused by a lean condition before the Fuel pump upgrade.

Life is about learning. Lesson learned.

Thanks for all the Condolences, currently the Transmission is at the Ford Trauma Center, still waiting final verdict. So far 3 and 4th band are terminal, I'll know tonight if complete transplant will be required.

Jeff

ORIGINAL: gadway41

Thanks for all the Condolences, currently the Transmission is at the Ford Trauma Center, still waiting final verdict. So far 3 and 4th band are terminal, I'll know tonight if complete transplant will be required.

Jeff



Find out if there are upgraded parts you can put back in instead of stock.

ORIGINAL: PolkThug

ORIGINAL: gadway41

Thanks for all the Condolences, currently the Transmission is at the Ford Trauma Center, still waiting final verdict. So far 3 and 4th band are terminal, I'll know tonight if complete transplant will be required.

Jeff



Find out if there are upgraded parts you can put back in instead of stock.



Great idea Polk, I will certainly ask that!!

Would Ford racing make stronger parts for an automatic tranny?? That would be great to put in if possible, Erik

Eric,

Not sure, I was told today that they have already begun the rebuild. I plan to get a list of the parts that were replaced. That way I can check around in the future if this happens again, But do to the fact That JDM's Blue 600 hp car is holding together it must have been the Dyno.

ORIGINAL: gadway41

Eric,

Not sure, I was told today that they have already begun the rebuild. I plan to get a list of the parts that were replaced. That way I can check around in the future if this happens again, But do to the fact That JDM's Blue 600 hp car is holding together it must have been the Dyno.




Yea you can say we've made a few pulls on it (check out the run file #) Locked in 4th gear, the only thing done to our trans is a PI multi disc converter, the single disc converters will blow through at most power levels above 450 RWHP

[img=http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1100/bluecardynoys2.th.jpg] (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bluecardynoys2.jpg)


The more ive been thinking about this and the more I have spoken with some people about this, Im beginning to think the problem was pre existing. Its possible there was a defect from Ford or its possible since the car was an early calibration 05 Saleen SC auto car. Saleen had some issues with there earlier Auto calibrations for SC cars and It took a little help from the outside for them to see what was going on. We have share a lot of information with them because of our close relationship and they have been able to develop some awesome tunes since. We are trying to work with them to benefit everyone Saleen, JDM, and the car owners!
Ive also got strong feelings its was how the car was dynoed but when Jeff first contacted me he was sure it was done properly. Im trying to figure out what really happened here but its hard when only being able to communicate through phone or email.

JimIII

JimIII

I am failing to see the logic
475kit - Car ran great

550kit - trans now doesn't shift.

Therefore it was the 475kit?

ORIGINAL: Hito

I am failing to see the logic
475kit - Car ran great

550kit - trans now doesn't shift.

Therefore it was the 475kit?



Well i know it wasnt the 550 kit based on the hundreds of cars with out issues, including our own making 600+ RWHP through a stock trans. It may have helped it toward failure adding the extra power, but i feel the damage was done, either through its pre exisiting Saleen tuning or a oddity in the the trans from Ford. OR the dyno was done in manual 3rd gear and it smoke the trans, but i think Jeff said the dyno opperator told him it was in fourth. Our tuning allows for Lockup in 4th so no need to bring it down into 3rd.

JimIII

I just wanted everyone to know that we do have a strong relationship with Saleen and if it came off earlier that i was blamming the problem here with Jeffs car directly on Saleen its not. I was just trying to bring some ideas to the table and not realising what i was saying. The fact of the matter is that we are never really going to know what happened. Its sad to see this but it seems Jeff is going to be fine after all so no worries! This being the only transmission failure i have known of from any Saleen supercharged car speaks volumes by itself!

JimIII

I've been wanting to post my final verdict on this issue. My Tranny is now repaired car is good as new.

I also wanted to make it clear if in anyway I pointed the blame towards JDM that wasn't my intent. JDM ( Jim and his Dad) have been great during my ordeal, I have nothing but high praise for them and Saleen Speed Lab.

Please, Please do not ever add Octane Booster to your gas, I was a total retard recently which let to events causing me tremendous problems. Mainly ,with tranny issues having just occurred it was hard to figure out what going on with my car, thanks to JIMIII, It ended up being my Spark Plugs
cause by the ****** ******* !!! Octane Booster.

JIMIII you need to tell me what your Beverage of choice is so I can settle up with you when your up in Epping, NH in August.

So the octane boost caused the spark plugs to do what? How did all the work come out. What boost and HP are you running now Jeff? Let us know, Erik

Hi Erik,

The Octane Booster fouled the Plugs bad, can also plug the gas filter, ruin 02 sensors and Fuel Injectors.

Try a search on Octane Booster problems, this will open a persons eyes.

I'm not going to put the car back on the dyno, unless I do it right at JDM's, so HP #'s I don't no,
But I'm boosting around 10-12. Car runs great.

I am sure this is too little too late, but Saleen has had known problems with their superchargers leaking oil. I just had a similar (but different) problem (I have a manual). Apparantly my supercharger was leaking oil, which was making its way down into the transmission onto the clutch, which slowly burned up the clutch.

Could you have had a similar problem and when you put it on the dyno and ran it hard in 3rd and 4th gears they just burned up?

Not sure if I am off in the weeds on this one, but just something for you to think about...

Hey Jeff,
It's Jorge (ex-saleen techlline employee), glad to hear you got your car up and running again. The JDM boys are top notch. If there's ever anything you might need from me, shoot me a PM.

Jorge

ORIGINAL: teamgsxr

Hey Jeff,
It's Jorge (ex-saleen techlline employee), glad to hear you got your car up and running again. The JDM boys are top notch. If there's ever anything you might need from me, shoot me a PM.

Jorge


Hi Jorge,

I'm extremely sorry to hear you are know longer with Saleen, you are a valuable asset, Andrew G. spoke highly of you. Thankyou for your offer.

Best Regards,
Jeff in NH

ORIGINAL: severnrc

I am sure this is too little too late, but Saleen has had known problems with their superchargers leaking oil. I just had a similar (but different) problem (I have a manual). Apparantly my supercharger was leaking oil, which was making its way down into the transmission onto the clutch, which slowly burned up the clutch.

Could you have had a similar problem and when you put it on the dyno and ran it hard in 3rd and 4th gears they just burned up?

Not sure if I am off in the weeds on this one, but just something for you to think about...



I wouldn't think so because mine being automatic would be sealed from outside contaminates, but odd things will happen. Thanks for your info.