^^ Me thinks that the affordability of one knocks it down several notches though.
Meeehh... valid point, and possibly true.. but in terms of cars that "define" a decade along the lines of what is available to the public, price really isn't all THAT much of an issue unless you're talking about 100k plus. Because I've seen cars like vipers and Z06's sitting out front of a double-wide before.. LOL So you'd be surprised at who can afford one and who can't. The only difference is where that persons priorities are. Even when they came out the 95 Viper GTS was only about 76k -ish, depending on the dealer mark up where you bought it. That's not so outlandishly expensive when you consider that cars of like performance, out of the box, were for the most part, 1 1/2 to 2 times the cost, I.E. Porsche 993's, 911 Turbo, Marinello edition 550 Barchetta from Ferarri, etc..
Bottom line, I'd still have to pick the Viper.. Just for the 90's though.. lol
or pick up an f body for 30 put 15 into it and go play with the vipers in a straight line anyways and spend the other 30 on hookers
LMAO.. "hoookkeerrrsss!! and mooorrreee hooookkkkeeerrrsss!!! " lol True, but then we're talking out of the box performance. ;-) There weren't any stock F-body's that could compete with a GTS. Only GM vehicle that came close was the Z06, and even they lost by a hair. Economically speaking methinks you speak the truth, but I be a stubborn bastard so I'm stickin with mopar on that one. hehe..
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but when you talk about out of the box performance... look at $$ to hp ratios... You can spend 68k on 450bhp for your 98' Viper or 37,9 on 350bhp C5 Corvette... im sorry but brand new back in the 98' that 68k for the viper is more like 105k now... it really wasn't affordable for your everyday person.. priorities out of whack or not.
$151 per hp for the Viper... $108.28 per hp for the Vette... both has great suspension, and the viper is a bit faster out of the box, but at what cost? The viper has the WOW effect, and it does... but I think the Vette with the LS1 made more of defination on the 90's and the current performance market then the Viper did...
In reality, the only reason the SRT10 viper came out was because of the C5 Z06, Cobra 'R' (even if it was a special edition only) and the Terminator plans..... The viper owners can thank Ford and GM for the fast outdated SRT10.
but when you talk about out of the box performance... look at $$ to hp ratios... You can spend 68k on 450bhp for your 98' Viper or 37,9 on 350bhp C5 Corvette... im sorry but brand new back in the 98' that 68k for the viper is more like 105k now... it really wasn't affordable for your everyday person.. priorities out of whack or not.
$151 per hp for the Viper... $108.28 per hp for the Vette... both has great suspension, and the viper is a bit faster out of the box, but at what cost? The viper has the WOW effect, and it does... but I think the Vette with the LS1 made more of defination on the 90's and the current performance market then the Viper did... In reality, the only reason the SRT10 viper came out was because of the C5 Z06, Cobra 'R' (even if it was a special edition only) and the Terminator plans..... The viper owners can thank Ford and GM for the fast outdated SRT10.
Untrue. Why would Dodge need to come out w/ a successor to a car that, at 10 years old, STILL outperformed it's competition??? Dodge had long been working on a secong gen Viper. The Viper GTS-R concept car made the rounds back in 2000, predating the introduction of both the Z06 and the Cobra R. And would you care to explain how the SRT10 is outdated??? It's not outdated, it's just unrefined. It's a completely different car from the Corvette. The Viper is built for utmost performance, practicality and comromise be damned. That's why the Vipers have always sold. They appeal to a different demograph. A Corvette is downright meek compared to the Viper. The Viper is so much more raw and visceral. Performance per dollar is not something high on Dodge's list of priorities w/ their halo car.
That's not to say that the Corvette isn't impressive or a good car, because it obviously is. Just offering a counter-perspective to your last statement.....
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Team MF Member #5002 Posts: 5068
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The reason I think of it is based on the same thing Ford did. It came out right as the Terminator and the 405bhp Z06 came out... but it never changed for 10 years... It had no reason to change... Until Dodge saw these cars coming - especially the Z06...
Yeah the Viper deals with a certain demographic which is why it sells - you're 100% accurate. Still didn't define anything imo... but, with the new z06 coming out beating the Viper SRT10 in every aspect of driving and stealing their client base, is forcing Dodge to update the viper earlier then 10 years from now like it did...
It changed, but only in relative small detail. It had numerous small engine changes during the whole span of it's first gen production run. When they first came out, they had 400hp. In 1996, w/ the introduction of the GTS, they received 450hp. I can't remember which model years, but some of them had different internals. I think the pre-98 450hp cars had forged, and after that, they were cast. The second gen car came out when it did because the previous gen run had been exhausted. The car was 10 years old, and needed a replacement. There was only a two year delay between the red/silver GTS-R Coupe Concept, and the new Viper Roadster. It's not like Dodge made the new Viper strictly to take on the Termie and Z06. Bolton for bolton, the Viper would leave the other two in the dust, even before the new gen.
As for defining the decade, I agree. I didn't say it defined any decade. I picked the Corvette for the 90's.....
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I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
This thread is titled, "Cars That defined a Decade"...IMO, this means a certain car, or niche of car that made the biggest impact on the buying public....and the automobile industry
50's- Corvette and Thunderbird (the first two domestic two seater cars with removable tops) and were direct competetors at that time.. 60's- Hands down, the Ford Mustang was the first car for the American Youth.... 70's- Chevy Van, It was "cool" to have a van in the 70's..Hell there was even a top 10 hit record called "Chevy Van" 80's- Dodge's K cars/ minivans ...The K-cars saved Dodge from extinction and the Dodge Caravan ushered in a new realm of vehicles...The Ford Taurus also kept Ford afloat.. 90's- SUV's 00's- Hybrids
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It changed, but only in relative small detail. It had numerous small engine changes during the whole span of it's first gen production run. When they first came out, they had 400hp. In 1996, w/ the introduction of the GTS, they received 450hp. I can't remember which model years, but some of them had different internals. I think the pre-98 450hp cars had forged, and after that, they were cast. The second gen car came out when it did because the previous gen run had been exhausted. The car was 10 years old, and needed a replacement. There was only a two year delay between the red/silver GTS-R Coupe Concept, and the new Viper Roadster. It's not like Dodge made the new Viper strictly to take on the Termie and Z06. Bolton for bolton, the Viper would leave the other two in the dust, even before the new gen.
As for defining the decade, I agree. I didn't say it defined any decade. I picked the Corvette for the 90's.....
The most exciting thing about the Viper is that it makes it's power with very low compression..that V10 is just begging for boost or juice. Thats why modded Vipers are usualy around the 1000+ hp range.
^Yep. There is also a lot of power to be had w/ simple boltons. And gears; wow. Boy do gears make a difference in a Viper. A friend of mine has two Viper GTS', a red '97, and a Sapphire Blue/Silver '02. Before he upgraded the blue car to a Venom 650, he put 3.73 gears in the red car. The blue car had intake, headers, exhaust, and the '97 w/ just gears felt WAY meaner. Vipers are geared so tall from the factory...
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The reason I think of it is based on the same thing Ford did. It came out right as the Terminator and the 405bhp Z06 came out... but it never changed for 10 years... It had no reason to change... Until Dodge saw these cars coming - especially the Z06...
Yeah the Viper deals with a certain demographic which is why it sells - you're 100% accurate. Still didn't define anything imo... but, with the new z06 coming out beating the Viper SRT10 inevery aspect of driving and stealing their client base, is forcing Dodge to update the viper earlier then 10 years from now like it did...
Z06.....ummmmm.....NO.....ZR1 yes. The Viper was faster in a straight line by a bit and a bunch faster on the road course in the C&D tests
< Message edited by okbfd -- 4/22/2008 1:57:28 PM >
Being 20, i can only speak for the 90's en 00's. Plus only the cars i grew up around, while the older guys were drooling over them locally...
90's - Supra TT, 300ZX TT, Nissan Pulsar GTI, Typhoon/Cyclone, Skyline GTST/GTR, BMW E36 M3 00's - BMW E46 M3, S197 GT, Toyota Mark 2 GTB, Toyota Chaser Tourer V
Mostly JDM cars.
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2005 Nissan 350Z, Grand Touring, Nismo Cold Air Intake, Nismo Y-pipe Exhaust
Team MF Member #5002 Posts: 5068
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The Z06 is faster then the SRT10 in a straight line. More power, better gearing, equal suspension and less weight.
The Z06 is the reason why Dodge amped up the power... which is part of the reason the Blue Devil or w/e it is, is coming out. it's been going back and forth.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
The Z06 is faster then the SRT10 in a straight line. More power, better gearing, equal suspension and less weight.
The Z06 is the reason why Dodge amped up the power... which is part of the reason the Blue Devil or w/e it is, is coming out. it's been going back and forth.
Is the Z06 still faster than the 8.4L 600hp SRT10 in a straight line?
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hmm.. not the new 600bhp... Didnt even know they were produced yet... but before this one the z06 was definatly faster... even still, the z06 if it's behind won't be by much... these things are still fat. The z06 is about 300lbs lighter... higher revving... better gearing... and only 85rwhp down... It's closer then you think.... and about 70lb ft tor lower...
I would honestly call it down to a very close race... close to even a drivers race, while spending close to 20k less on the z06... The new Vette is going to annhilate the viper...
Posts: 1274
Joined: 6/14/2007 From: San Antonio, Texas Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx
hmm.. not the new 600bhp... Didnt even know they were produced yet... but before this one the z06 was definatly faster... even still, the z06 if it's behind won't be by much... these things are still fat. The z06 is about 300lbs lighter... higher revving... better gearing... and only 85rwhp down... It's closer then you think.... and about 70lb ft tor lower...
I would honestly call it down to a very close race... close to even a drivers race, while spending close to 20k less on the z06... The new Vette is going to annhilate the viper...
The 8.4L is supposed to be a 2008 model or so I was told. I always thought the Viper's were right at the same weight if not just a little bit more...
Printable Version
RE: Cars that Defined a Decade - 
Even when they came out the 95 Viper GTS was only about 76k -ish, depending on the dealer mark up where you bought it. That's not so outlandishly expensive when you consider that cars of like performance, out of the box, were for the most part, 1 1/2 to 2 times the cost, I.E. Porsche 993's, 911 Turbo, Marinello edition 550 Barchetta from Ferarri, etc.. 
Just for the 90's though.. lol
