here's my thing......... I owned all chevys since I was 17yrs old. I'm now 32 and traded in my 02 Z28 that was dynoing around 442RWHP. People ask me why?? I enjoyed the power that it had but their was no styling at all! Sure I made my own 1960"s Hockey stripes and did stuff here and there to it but there was still no styling! I got so pissed off when FORD brought out the 05, I gave this some thought and relized that CHEVY doesn't give a rats A#$ about anyone besides it's vettes and truck owner which their truck sales have droped by 20% CHEVY has lost it! Even chevy does remake the camaro this is one person who will NEVER buy from then again! Chevy can't even touch the new design mustang or even come close to building a car with a blower like the 03 mustang cobra! I guess my blood runs blue now =)
Lets look at the facts. Chevy dumped the camaro a few years because they couldnt sell any. Meanwhile Mustangs were selling very well. So now Chevy, is going to exhume the camaro because they want a piece of that sports car market. I predict once the novelty wears off ( a few years ) they will be in the same position they were before, with a car that wont sell enough to make money. They will be getting the backhoe out and try to find where they had it burried before. As for the Charger, that thing is flat out ugly. It looks like dads old station wagon squashed down abit. Of course this is my lowly opinion, but you can look at history.
Later guys
Steve
< Message edited by hunter9s -- 10/15/2005 8:37:18 AM >
new safety standards came up in 2002 and the camaro/firebird had to change it had to either change the a pillar (which wouldnt look right, you know, sleek car-huge greenhouse, doesnt make sense) or they could install side curtain air bags or something since they weren't choosing either, and they didnt have a 5th gen design out yet, they had to discontinue the car now... they are waiting til atleast 2007 to re-intro the camaro (maybe firebird too, but doubtful) because the CAW (Canadien A? Worker's union or something) had a contract with GM saying if they shut down the st. therese plant (where all 4th gen f-bodies were made) they couldnt build the car the next year if gm decides to unleash a new camaro before 2007, they have to pay the CAW a bunch of money because of the contract which GM doesnt want to spend a lot of money just to reintro the camaro early, hence the reason for waiting til ATLEAST 2007.
In my mind, several factors contributed to the demise of the F- body car. First, they were too expensive. I know that Compared to the Corvette, and Viper, they were cheap, but kids with civics are dropping in turbos, and smoking stock F- body Cars. Second, they were too big. The way the market is going, kids like smaller cars than they did in the past. Why do you think the Civic, Cavalier, Corolla, and Neon are selling so well? Little cars are more fun to drive, they are more nimble, easier to park, and are generally more responsive.
If GM wanted to bring back their ponycars, they would have to change a few things in order for them to be successful. They would have to scale them down dramatically. Kids love rear wheel drive, so they would have to keep that aspect of the f-body car alive, and a more refined v6 might be better than the old 350. I think they should keep it normally-aspirated for reliability's sake, but a smaller v8 in a smaller, lighter car would equal the same performance of the old f-body car. I think a lighter car, with rwd, and a smaller engine would result in a lower MSRP. Maybe something based off the current Solstice architecture?
Ford made the right decision to base the Mustang off the Lincoln LS body, this allows for lower development costs and gives engineers the ability to concentrate on design and performance. Also by refining the 4.6l and using the proven 4.0l V6 gave ford the ability to make a better performing car for 2005.
Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.....
< Message edited by swieduwi -- 10/19/2005 1:04:59 PM >
Camaro reborn: 700-horsepower, $427,000 Reborn muscle-car era speed shop building ultra-high-performance Camaros from scratch. November 11, 2005; Posted: 11:40 a.m. EST (1640 GMT)
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNN/Money staff writer
LAS VEGAS (CNN/Money) - If you missed your opportunity to buy a brand-new Chevrolet Camaro before General Motors stopped making them in 2002, here's your chance.
You'd better have some serious cash, though.
The reincarnation of a muscle-car era team that specialized in making high-performance Chevrolets has brought the reincarnation of the Camaro itself. This time, they're making their own Camaros from scratch with bodies designed with the help of a 22-year-old California car artist.
The look of the new Baldwin-Motion 540 Camaro SuperCoupe calls to mind the the 1969 Camaro, but this is a bigger, broader two-seat monster. The SuperCoupe is powered by a 700-horsepower V-8 engine.
In a nod to the good old days, the company lists the engine's displacement as 540 cubic inches. That's about 8.9 liters for those of you too young to remember when engine displacement was measured in cubic inches.
Even the car's price is a nod to those old English-unit days: $427,000.
Camaros with General Motors' 427-cubic-inch engine were the basis for some of the most famous cars created by the original Baldwin-Motion Performance Group.
That company was formed when Motion Performance, a Brooklyn, NY, speed shop, moved their operations to the suburban town of Baldwin, NY. There, in 1966, they partnered with a local Chevy dealership to sell custom performance upgrades.
Their cars, mostly high-horsepower Corvettes, Camaros and Chevelles, became some of the most prized muscle cars of the era.
Joel Rosen and Martyn Schorr were largely responsible for creating the original Baldwin-Motion. Rosen was the mechanic, Schorr was responsible for public relations, advertising and marketing.
The pair started their new company, now based in Florida, last summer along with several business partners.
This time, the cars are being created without factory-built Camaros to base them on. The new cars' all-steel bodies will be built by Time Machines, a Florida company specializing in body work for classic muscle cars.
The success legendary performance tuner Carroll Shelby has had with a line of faithfully recreated Shelby muscle cars -- not to mention an upcoming Shelby version of the new Ford Mustang -- had something to do with inspiring this venture, said Lawrence Jaworske, Motion's chief executive officer.
"Why should Carroll get to have all the fun?" he said.
Designer Kris Horton worked with Rosen to pen the prototype car. Horton came to the attention of the Baldwin-Motion team because of a sketch he did for Popular Hot-Rodding magazine in the summer of 2003. That computer sketch, which was distributed widely on the Internet, illustrated what a Chevrolet Camaro might look like if General Motors were to produce the car again.
The Baldwin-Motion SuperCoupe's body, while resembling a 1969 Camaro in the front grill, rear and overall shape, actually shares no sheet-metal or dimensions with that car.
Each of the 12 SuperCoupes the company plans to sell will be hand-made according to the customer's desires, said Lawrence Jaworske, Motion's chief executive officer. That 700-horsepower engine isn't supercharged, for example. If you really want, it could be.
The company is proud of the fact that its supercars will be totally "streetable," said Joworske. In other words, the cars are designed to be safely and legally driven on public roads by non-professional drivers. Motion will not want to do anything to jeopardize the car's road-ready nature, said Jaworske.
"We want to be responsible about what we're doing," he said.
The company will tell buyers to allow a year for their cars to be completed.
The new Motion Camaro will also bring back "the guarantee" that went with the original cars.
Those cars were guaranteed to be able to run a quarter mile from a dead stop in 11.5 seconds at a top speed of 120 miles per hour.
The new guarantee has been tightened to 10 seconds, said Jaworske.
For those with a little less to spend, the company is also making 25 Motion Phase III Camaros which it will sell for about $189,000 each, said Jaworske. Those cars, Jaworske said, will more closely resemble original 1969 Camaros and will use some original body parts.
While he's not exactly sure who the "typical buyer" for a $400,000 to $500,000 700-horsepower Camaro might be, Schorr pointed to the current market in highly collectible muscle cars, including classic Baldwin Motion Camaros from the 1960s and '70s. While not common, extremely rare muscle cars in pristine condition can sell for prices well into six figures.
The prototype Motion Super-Coupe will be sold at the Barrett-Jackson collectible car auction in Scottsdale, Ariz. in January. That event, which is broadcast live on cable television, generally brings some of the highest prices paid for collectible muscle cars.
"If it doesn't bring big bucks at that auction it never will," said Schorr
I think the car looks ok, personally Concept for Concept i think the 05 Gt looked better, gotta remember this car may not look as good once its released
Posts: 480
Joined: 10/6/2005 From: Atlanta, Ga Status: offline
The camaro will return, belive it and it probally will have the base performance one, sporting 400hp just like the GTO! And the base corvette will probally move to 450 or so. (*2001*RATINGS --Z06 405HP, BASE VETTE 345HP, Z28 305HP)
OR FOR A WILD THOUGHT THE CAMARO'S LS2 MIGHT JUST BE "RATED" AT 350HP!
i do agree with the horsepower stopping somewhere because at this rate nissan maximas will have 500hp and cobras will have 800hp stock by 2010!
the camaro will not have a 2007 model!! it will be released(EARLIEST) late(fall) 2007 as a 2008 model. And for the person who said there will not be a camaro to compete with the gt500. duh. there never was a camaro that did in the years the cobra's were produced. gt500 met Z06. there won't ever be a 500hp corvette and camaro for the same year! EVER! Just like there won't be a 550 ford gt and a 550 svt cobra/gt500 for the same year ever. If you are a die hard mustang fan you should be rooting for a new camaro. For more competition. If you don't want a new camaro to return I take it as you are afraid that it just might be faster than your stang. whether the camaro returns for 2008 or 2009 it will be back
BUT
IN THE MEANWHILE WHAT IS FOR SURE COMING AND BEFORE THE CAMARO IS THE CHALLENGER WITH AN R/T 340HP AND SRT-8 425HP. I HAVE SEEN SOME STANGS GET WAXED BY THE CHARGER AND THIS IS JUST ONE THATS LOST A LIL WEIGHT!
in 2005 Ford sold 160.975 Mustangs. Gm is going to need to do at least that good if it brings back the Camaro. I cant see it. There is alot of people on boards wanting it to come back. You think even 100,000. I dont think so.
The new Camaro is too blinged out. Although it is a concept, it has WAYYYY too big of rims. Get rid of that crap, stock 18" rims at MAX!! Just give the new muscle cars big fat tires and a good engine. I like GM's idea to compete in a new Pony War, but they can't drop some big 6L+ engine in it. That is just wasting money.
here's my thing......... I owned all chevys since I was 17yrs old. I'm now 32 and traded in my 02 Z28 that was dynoing around 442RWHP. People ask me why?? I enjoyed the power that it had but their was no styling at all! Sure I made my own 1960"s Hockey stripes and did stuff here and there to it but there was still no styling! I got so pissed off when FORD brought out the 05, I gave this some thought and relized that CHEVY doesn't give a rats A#$ about anyone besides it's vettes and truck owner which their truck sales have droped by 20% CHEVY has lost it! Even chevy does remake the camaro this is one person who will NEVER buy from then again! Chevy can't even touch the new design mustang or even come close to building a car with a blower like the 03 mustang cobra! I guess my blood runs blue now =)
Don't mean to sound queer but that was a great statement. My first car was an '86 v8 camaro followed by a '88 5 spd IROC, and then I was bitten by the Ford bug much to the chagrin of my Chevy faithful father. I owned a '93 LX coupe, a '95 Cobra, and am on my '98 Cobra with an '07 GT500 on order.
The concept looks good... but then again I thought the Mustang concept a couple years ago looked better than the actual 05-06.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We will see IF they build it and IF it looks anything like the CONCEPT. I am sure you all saw the beautiful 19" wheels on the CONCEPT GT500, they are gone with 18 inchers in their place. I am also sure you all saw the bad ass S H E L B Y name s p a c e d o u t across the back of the GT500.........now pushed to the left side, very unassuming, might as well say LS430. I am also sure many of you know why they pushed it over to the left side.........they got rid of the spoiler mounted, GT500 CONCEPT specific integral brakelight. Remember the bad ass Shelby hood........replaced with non-paint matched heat extractors that scream at you. The list goes on and on. No changes or deletions to the CONCEPTS are usually for the better.
We'll see what GM dishes out. Hopefully they learned their lessons with the GTO. Probably the most advertised sports car I have ever heard of on radio and television. Every weekend some radio station was trying to get you to a Pontiac lot to drive that Grand am, Bonneville, Grand prix looking thing. So undersold I wouldn't be surprised if they cut a deal to all the Highway Patrol agencies to get some of them off the lots.
CONCEPTS are just that, we'll see if GM actually builds it and if it is worth a S#$%&!
Im sorry if this offends any of you but the new camaro is a good looking car and for years mustang has been one step behind, and dollar for dollar as you bolt crap on and upgrade if I do the same dollar for dollar you will still lose. sorry it is just the nature of the beast and to the guy with the little 4 cyl. turned v-8 why are you selling it did you spend too much trying to make your little lx think it was fast so now you have to sell it to recoop 1/10th of your cost LMAO word of advice next time you buy a car maybe you should save your pennies and buy a V-8 to start with. as for anything else anyone in the dallas fort worth area I am fixing to start a muscle car club email me if your interested in joining @ robertbrandyjohnson@yahoo.com. have fun and be careful.
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95 Z-28 just a few mods for now :)
shes fixin to get a full rebuild (motor and tranny), a B&M blower and alittle bit of the bottle.
even if there is another camaro in 2007, just look at it! its f***ing ugly, it would stop selling by 2008! The new mustangs blow it away look wise, mustangs always have!
I disagree 100%. IMO the camaro and TAs have always looked much better than the mustang. Mustangs have always been built better though.....much much better.
If GM builds a car that looks like that and will actually make it over 100k miles without being a heap of crap I will get one.
gothikka, I wouldnt go that far I have 115k on my z and it is still running like a champ, and I in no way drive it easy. I do know what you are saying but not all of them are like that and I have seen plenty of mustangs go down the tubes too. I think it is more about the owner more camaro owners thrash their cars and dont try to keep them up they race um then dump um where as the majority of mustang owners I know have a tendancy to keep the maintenance up on them IE: regular oil changes, good tires, suspension, tranny, etc. where most of the camaro people are kiddos these days and all they want is that speed. I met a guy a couple weeks ago that fits into this perfectly, he had a beautiful 98 ss that he blew the motor in I stopped to help him while we were pushing it off the road I noticed the oil change sticker it was dated feb99 I asked him about it and he had a look of astonishment in his face that was priceless as he admitted that he didnt realize that he needed to change his oil anymore than that ( I am suprised the car made it that long) but anyways I have been up for 31 hours and it is now time to go.
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95 Z-28 just a few mods for now :)
shes fixin to get a full rebuild (motor and tranny), a B&M blower and alittle bit of the bottle.
Printable Version
RE: 2007 camaro - 
RE: 2007 camaro - 
