what are you talking about moron?  stang II's can smoke vettes all day long

alright...but i should be giving you the headstart bucko.  this bitch can fly

[QUOTE=Jugador]they're going for smaller displacement and new technology unlike the other big players.  the only way to stay alive is to keep improving, be it in price or features...thats what killed F-Bodies.[/QUOTE]

What killed the F Bodies was sales.  Mustangs always outsould the F-bodies, even when they were slower.  This is the first year Mustangs have put out competitive numbers, a year in which no F-bodies are around.  I won't argue for f-bodies though, as I am not a big fan of them.  GM really disgraced the Corvette by putting Vette Motors in those cars.  Lucky for Vette owners, they gave us a better cam, heads, and lifters.  I guess they would do that for $20k more.

[/QUOTE]

What killed the fbody was the lack of marketing by GM....slow sales were only helped by their lack of marketing.

Ford marketed the Mustang, and still is. Its funny how you use the Mustangs put out more competitive numbers when the Fbodies are around, just goes to show that Fbodies were really hurting the Mustangs sales when they were around.

GM gave up, and the Fbody sales slowed and died. They will be back though, but in the meantime, have fun fighting off the GTO.

[QUOTE=Jugador]they're going for smaller displacement and new technology unlike the other big players.  the only way to stay alive is to keep improving, be it in price or features...thats what killed F-Bodies.[/QUOTE]

What killed the F Bodies was sales.  Mustangs always outsould the F-bodies, even when they were slower.  This is the first year Mustangs have put out competitive numbers, a year in which no F-bodies are around.  I won't argue for f-bodies though, as I am not a big fan of them.  GM really disgraced the Corvette by putting Vette Motors in those cars.  Lucky for Vette owners, they gave us a better cam, heads, and lifters.  I guess they would do that for $20k more.

[/QUOTE]

What killed the fbody was the lack of marketing by GM....slow sales were only helped by their lack of marketing.

Ford marketed the Mustang, and still is. Its funny how you use the Mustangs put out more competitive numbers when the Fbodies are around, just goes to show that Fbodies were really hurting the Mustangs sales when they were around.

GM gave up, and the Fbody sales slowed and died. They will be back though, but in the meantime, have fun fighting off the GTO.

[/QUOTE]

Personally, I think GM could have done better with the GTO.  It looks just like a Grand Am.  It will be fast, but the numbers so far don't prove it to be any faster than the old F Bodies with LS1's.

 Wow,

A great deal of responses on this topic.  I saw some replies about f-bodies.  I agree with most of the stang guys.  The f-body was uncomfortable rattled like a model T Ford.  No that was not a shot at the Ford guy's.  The neighbor has one and oh my god I does it rattle.  However, you get what you pay for a stripped down 2000 z-28 w/employee discounts and incentives was about 23k out the door.  I do disagree w/ the argument about old technology.  The LS1/LS6 is a state of the art OHV motor.  Along with the 03 cobra motor the LS6 was voted as one of the best V8 motors in the world by Hot Rod Magazine.  I know I will get a lot of flames for this, but oh well.  There is not a stock Z-28 or Cobra that will compete w/ a stock C5 in any performance category.  Over the summer Motor Trend did a comparison between the 03 Cobra convertible and the 03 Vette convertible.  The Vette won in every performance category check it out http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_cobvet/index.html

Don't kill the messenger!  And yes I know and agree throw about 2000 grand @ the cobra and you have a low low 11 second machine.  Like I said on another forum the new cobras are the Grand National of the new millennium.  Throw a chip in em, turn up the boost, cold air intake and exhaust, and look the f*&k out!

 Wow,

A great deal of responses on this topic.  I saw some replies about f-bodies.  I agree with most of the stang guys.  The f-body was uncomfortable rattled like a model T Ford.  No that was not a shot at the Ford guy's.  The neighbor has one and oh my god I does it rattle.  However, you get what you pay for a stripped down 2000 z-28 w/employee discounts and incentives was about 23k out the door.  I do disagree w/ the argument about old technology.  The LS1/LS6 is a state of the art OHV motor.  Along with the 03 cobra motor the LS6 was voted as one of the best V8 motors in the world by Hot Rod Magazine.  I know I will get a lot of flames for this, but oh well.  There is not a stock Z-28 or Cobra that will compete w/ a stock C5 in any performance category.  Over the summer Motor Trend did a comparison between the 03 Cobra convertible and the 03 Vette convertible.  The Vette won in every performance category check it out http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_cobvet/index.html

Don't kill the messenger!  And yes I know and agree throw about 2000 grand @ the cobra and you have a low low 11 second machine.  Like I said on another forum the new cobras are the Grand National of the new millennium.  Throw a chip in em, turn up the boost, cold air intake and exhaust, and look the f*&k out!

[/QUOTE]

Finally, someone makes a valid point.  Thanks David!!!

 Wow,

A great deal of responses on this topic.  I saw some replies about f-bodies.  I agree with most of the stang guys.  The f-body was uncomfortable rattled like a model T Ford.  No that was not a shot at the Ford guy's.  The neighbor has one and oh my god I does it rattle.  However, you get what you pay for a stripped down 2000 z-28 w/employee discounts and incentives was about 23k out the door.  I do disagree w/ the argument about old technology.  The LS1/LS6 is a state of the art OHV motor.  Along with the 03 cobra motor the LS6 was voted as one of the best V8 motors in the world by Hot Rod Magazine.  I know I will get a lot of flames for this, but oh well.  There is not a stock Z-28 or Cobra that will compete w/ a stock C5 in any performance category.  Over the summer Motor Trend did a comparison between the 03 Cobra convertible and the 03 Vette convertible.  The Vette won in every performance category check it out http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_cobvet/index.html

Don't kill the messenger!  And yes I know and agree throw about 2000 grand @ the cobra and you have a low low 11 second machine.  Like I said on another forum the new cobras are the Grand National of the new millennium.  Throw a chip in em, turn up the boost, cold air intake and exhaust, and look the f*&k out!

[/QUOTE]

Finally, someone makes a valid point.  Thanks David!!!

[/QUOTE]

of course my point doesnt count cause you dont agree with it.

Good call dave. I just read this forum today and i would have brought up that article too.  I am a huge mustang fan and i could have bought a zo6 but, instead i opted to buy an 04 cobra because like you said you can buy a cobra and put enough money to make it more powerful and faster than a zo6 and i think even a viper!

Now I have been trying to do figure out how and this is what i want to do bare with me though i am new at this stuff and anyone jump in if you want...

1st   INCOMING AIR: Seems easy.  Now everyone in this forum knows that the '04 cobras come with an Eaton blower with 8 psi, now i heard of a pulley that you can put on the superchargers that creates more boost that a supercharger can produce, is this true?  If it is then whats and called and who makes the best one?  Now also I know that cold air is important so a cold air intake with a k&n filter would also be intalled.  From my understanding the stock 57mm twin bore throttle body is plenty big, right?  Now I believe thats it for incoming.

2nd   MORE FEUL:  Now to match that air im going to need more feul.  How? feul pump and feul injectors, right?  Im still scetchy on that.

3rd   IGNTITION:  Now i believe a better spark plug and maybe MSDS Ignition systems right?  But what kind should i get?

4th   ANYTHING IM FORGETTING ON THE ENGINE I SHOULD CONSIDER?

5th   EXHAUST:  FLOWMASTERS ( no brainer) with a bassani X-pipe.  (when i got my v6 when i was in the military i put 18in.  chrome icw rims and flowmasters( with a home made h-pipe) on it. it was a 98 and yellow with mirror tint (i didnt have that much money) but i loved the sound of my flowmasters. so i want them again

drivetrain:  help me out dont know chit about it

SUSPENSION:  Eibach lowering springs

LET ME KNOW HOW IM DOING SO FAR AND IF YOU WANT TO HELP ID APPRECIATE IT.

I WANT THE CAR TO HAVE more HP, torque, and a better  1/4 mile time and handling than a srt-10 and z06.  thanx if ya help.

[QUOTE=Shaggy]yeah im realy disapointed with the new look of the GTO. sure the numbers are good but they could have made it look like a muscle car not a luxury car, but oh well i cant afford one lol.[/QUOTE]

Yeah you're right. Pontiac is more along the lines of Chevrolets luxury car division anymore. I know the GTO doesnt have a twin in Chevy's line up. But the TA was more of a luxury sport coupe where as the Camaro was for balls out performance. Same with the Crapolier, the Sunfire was slightly more luxurious and had a few more options than the Crapolier, but it was just as quick.

Personally if I'm payin 30k for a GTO I want it to be a damn nice car and be quick as hell too...which is why lately I'd take a TA WS6 over an SS.

I see a lot of bad information and inaccuracies, but I'm not even going to bother - the only thing I'm going to point out is the motor trend link.

They tested an 03 Cobra Convertible, even heavier than the 03 Cobra Coupe  

[QUOTE=Shaggy]yeah im realy disapointed with the new look of the GTO. sure the numbers are good but they could have made it look like a muscle car not a luxury car, but oh well i cant afford one lol.[/QUOTE]

Yeah you're right. Pontiac is more along the lines of Chevrolets luxury car division anymore. I know the GTO doesnt have a twin in Chevy's line up. But the TA was more of a luxury sport coupe where as the Camaro was for balls out performance. Same with the Crapolier, the Sunfire was slightly more luxurious and had a few more options than the Crapolier, but it was just as quick.

Personally if I'm payin 30k for a GTO I want it to be a damn nice car and be quick as hell too...which is why lately I'd take a TA WS6 over an SS.

[/QUOTE]

From what I've seen of the inside of TA's (not even close to luxury), my interpretation of pontiac is just a more "performance styled" version of chevy's crappier looking vehicles

Good call dave. I just read this forum today and i would have brought up that article too.  I am a huge mustang fan and i could have bought a zo6 but, instead i opted to buy an 04 cobra because like you said you can buy a cobra and put enough money to make it more powerful and faster than a zo6 and i think even a viper!

Now I have been trying to do figure out how and this is what i want to do bare with me though i am new at this stuff and anyone jump in if you want...

1st   INCOMING AIR: Seems easy.  Now everyone in this forum knows that the '04 cobras come with an Eaton blower with 8 psi, now i heard of a pulley that you can put on the superchargers that creates more boost that a supercharger can produce, is this true?  If it is then whats and called and who makes the best one?  Now also I know that cold air is important so a cold air intake with a k&n filter would also be intalled.  From my understanding the stock 57mm twin bore throttle body is plenty big, right?  Now I believe thats it for incoming.

2nd   MORE FEUL:  Now to match that air im going to need more feul.  How? feul pump and feul injectors, right?  Im still scetchy on that.

3rd   IGNTITION:  Now i believe a better spark plug and maybe MSDS Ignition systems right?  But what kind should i get?

4th   ANYTHING IM FORGETTING ON THE ENGINE I SHOULD CONSIDER?

5th   EXHAUST:  FLOWMASTERS ( no brainer) with a bassani X-pipe.  (when i got my v6 when i was in the military i put 18in.  chrome icw rims and flowmasters( with a home made h-pipe) on it. it was a 98 and yellow with mirror tint (i didnt have that much money) but i loved the sound of my flowmasters. so i want them again

drivetrain:  help me out dont know chit about it

SUSPENSION:  Eibach lowering springs

LET ME KNOW HOW IM DOING SO FAR AND IF YOU WANT TO HELP ID APPRECIATE IT.

I WANT THE CAR TO HAVE more HP, torque, and a better  1/4 mile time and handling than a srt-10 and z06.  thanx if ya help.

It will be easy for the car to make more power than a z06 and turn better 1/4 times than a completely stock ZO6.  First you need an upper and lower pulley to create more boost, second you will need a cold air intake, third you will need a different plenum, 4th complete exhaust, including headers and x-pipe,  you'll need a set of slicks or et streets to get the thing to hook.  Once it hooks you're going to have to put a new heavy duty clutch in it and finally throw away the IRS rearend because it will grenade!!!  It is going to take a lot of money to get your car to handle as a well as a z06.  Believe it or not the Z is a factory race car.  The Cobra weighs about 600 lbs more it will take a lot to get it to perform as well as the z on a road course.  You will probably have 50k in the car including the price to get the cobra to beat  the z in all performance categories.  You can buy a new z for around 44k sink 8k in it for the lingefelter supercharger package and you will have a 10 second daily driver that will get 28 miles to the gallon on the highway and pull 1g on the skid pad. 

[QUOTE=T5superduty]I guess I will just say a little something to get in on this Ford vs Chevy BS.  For one thing ya ok the 03 cobra is supercharged (who cares).  Some car companies experiment with differnt ways in making power.  Alot of you GM people cry about how Ford needs a supercharger to have a fast car.  The 2000 Cobra R was a n/a car pushin alot of power so happy there is your modern n/a Ford.  Its not like its a big war to them they just want to try differnt things out and see how they work.  In another thread I have also posted this but ya'll might not have read it. In october 02 of MM&FF took a stock 03 cobra and ran a best time of 12.43 @ 113. Sounds kinda like the z06 right ? Then they added the Pully off the SVT lightning and then ran a 12.01 @118 mph. And again now useing MT Street Slicks they got it too run a 11.68 @119.  Now that is way under $2000 in performance mods.  Just be happy with what you are with and stop complaining you GM p****s.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         &