Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??

Nice kill. I've driven a few and was not very impressed by the one i really got to get on. First gear felt okay but 2nd and 3rd on the highway were not impressive. Probably needed some gears. Remember they are heeaavy.

ORIGINAL: OnyxCobra

Nice kill. I've driven a few and was not very impressed by the one i really got to get on. First gear felt okay but 2nd and 3rd on the highway were not impressive. Probably needed some gears. Remember they are heeaavy.

Heavy? They weigh roughly 50lbs more than a New Edge.

You both had similar rwhp I bet from your mod list.

Your weight and those 3.73 gears made the difference.

heavy? how much does your's weigh? mine is 3450. i don't think they are much heavier if any heavier than other mustangs except the fox. good job fox on the kill. although racing from a stop also takes driver skill, if you walked him from a roll then that more car vs car, but from astop there are too many things a driver can mess up. many s197's run 9.0-9.2 with bolt on's in the 1/8 in my local area because they can't launch, i have run 8.7 bone stock and now i run 8.4 with a few bolt on's. i'm sure with my mods i'm in the high 12's.

First let me say.....I never knew there was a Street/Strip section....I really need to float around a little more on the Forum :)

ORIGINAL: w1ck3dr1

heavy? how much does your's weigh? mine is 3450. i don't think they are much heavier if any heavier than other mustangs except the fox. good job fox on the kill. although racing from a stop also takes driver skill, if you walked him from a roll then that more car vs car, but from astop there are too many things a driver can mess up. many s197's run 9.0-9.2 with bolt on's in the 1/8 in my local area because they can't launch, i have run 8.7 bone stock and now i run 8.4 with a few bolt on's. i'm sure with my mods i'm in the high 12's.


I weighed my fox once.....I cannot remember the exact number, but it was pretty much 3000-even (and that was with my 100lb of custom *wood* Speaker boxes in the trunk)

But you are right, there is definitely skill involved in a launch................and that is what scared me a bit. IMO, A lighter fox with higher gears is harder to launch on the street than a heavier, low geared stock motor......

They will not spin out as easy, so they can punch it a LOT harder....where you really need to feather the Fox so you don't just sit there and spin.............

That notch you have looks sweet! I've never raced a foxbody, but I hear there's a local guy with a shot of nitrous that wants to run me. He tried to race me on the main strip through town one morning, but I'm old enough to know where to race and where not to.:eek:

You probably raced a stock auto. The car really needs and intake and tune. It runs on 87 octane from the factory for christ's sake!:eek:

ya i raced one at the track. i ran a 14.1 and he was runnin 14.8s all day

It is crazy.....when I first heard of the new S197s....with 300+ Horsepower.....I was like DAMN!?! Worked Foxes are lucky to get to 280-290rwhp......"How can I hang with the new Mustang?!?!"

No need to worry anymore :)

SMOKED HIM!!!!!!! I tell you, there is nothing better that that feeling of sitting at a light next to another Mustang ;)

the S197s are a bit heavy IMO - I'm @ 4000lbs with me in it in street trim

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)


Did you even read his post? Where do you get "strong running and possibly modded" when he states the S197 was a year old and bone stock?

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

It is crazy.....when I first heard of the new S197s....with 300+ Horsepower.....I was like DAMN!?! Worked Foxes are lucky to get to 280-290rwhp......"How can I hang with the new Mustang?!?!"

No need to worry anymore :)

SMOKED HIM!!!!!!! I tell you, there is nothing better that that feeling of sitting at a light next to another Mustang ;)


That 300hp rating is at the crank, not the wheels.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)


Did you even read his post? Where do you get "strong running and possibly modded" when he states the S197 was a year old and bone stock?



::sigh:: here we go again

I see you don't get out much for the racing scene ;)

owner: "yeah, it's stock"
under the hood: (CAI, tune, gears and tires)

beleiving the owner of a sports car saying his car is stock on the streetis like beleiving ted bundy when he says "trust me"

happens more often than you think

i tell people mine is stock all the time

Fair enough. Next time a GTO runs a 13.6 at the track, I will assume he had full bolt ons too.

The OP claims to have ripped the S197 a new one. I highly doubt the car was modded. I think you argue for the sake of arguing.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam
I think you argue for the sake of arguing.




this "arguement" started here, where your first post was an act tocontest what I have stated and nothing elseDid you even read his post? Where do you get "strong running and possibly modded" when he states the S197 was a year old and bone stock?


everything beforehand was opinion and stating of the fact... you just seem to always want to quarrel with everything I say and frankly I'm not giving into it anymore... and yes, even when you randomly bring my car into a discussion it doesn't belong in.... for me I might add, I still will not give in to yourgames

@ OP = good kill, sorry for the derailment, people need to learn what and what not to contest

carry on

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)


Who was getting to him and why the veiled diss?

I'm glad you won't take it anymore - I was starting to think you were a pussy.

I see your still trying to argue... classy


are you done?

I am - made my point.

ive had no problems taking them in my Edge, ive beaten two. one on the street and another on the highway. i only had my catback and the "performance" tune from Diablo. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with driver skill.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


What's up with the Vett in your sig?!? That is like blasphemy in a Mustang Forum?????? [:'(]

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


Good kill.... A bone stock fox has about 85hp less than the new GT but weighs roughly 600 lbs less. With aftermarket heads, cam, intake, full exhaustand a couple other mods I would expect your car to have roughly 300 hp.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


What's up with the Vett in your sig?!? That is like blasphemy in a Mustang Forum?????? [:'(]



I used to own a blown Stang and I came to like this place.

ORIGINAL: BrazoriaStang

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


Good kill.... A bone stock fox has about 85hp less than the new GT but weighs roughly 600 lbs less. With aftermarket heads, cam, intake, full exhaustand a couple other mods I would expect your car to have roughly 300 hp.


300??? WHOA I would love to see that number when I finally get on the dyno ;)

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


What's up with the Vett in your sig?!? That is like blasphemy in a Mustang Forum?????? [:'(]



I used to own a blown Stang and I came to like this place.



What made you cross to the dark side? :D

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BrazoriaStang

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


Good kill.... A bone stock fox has about 85hp less than the new GT but weighs roughly 600 lbs less. With aftermarket heads, cam, intake, full exhaustand a couple other mods I would expect your car to have roughly 300 hp.


300??? WHOA I would love to see that number when I finally get on the dyno ;)



300RWHP seems totally possible with your mods

a CAI + tune S197 will put down roughly 280-290RWHP and still be about 700lbs heavier... henceforth my standing on the subject

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BrazoriaStang

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


Good kill.... A bone stock fox has about 85hp less than the new GT but weighs roughly 600 lbs less. With aftermarket heads, cam, intake, full exhaustand a couple other mods I would expect your car to have roughly 300 hp.


300??? WHOA I would love to see that number when I finally get on the dyno ;)



300RWHP seems totally possible with your mods


I know I will be close, but a stock bottom-end with my mods always seems to fall shy of that 300-mark........

I plan on hitting the dyno in the next month or two.......if I hit 300?!? I will be sure to post a shot of my numbers :D

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


What's up with the Vett in your sig?!? That is like blasphemy in a Mustang Forum?????? [:'(]



I used to own a blown Stang and I came to like this place.



What's up with the bashing of the vette/vette guys lately? It's a little ****ed up to pick on a vette guy for no reason. He wanted to ask some things and make some points and you talk to him like your the ****ing king of england and he's a peasant(notreally you the other guy whom I will not state a name of). You should be happy he's not saying stuff like "I would have have put greyhounds on both of you in my Z06".Bam's a cool guy who I've never seen try andput someone down that didn'ttry and do it to him.I've learned abunch of stuff from him and he's very knowledgable. And you'd be lucky to evertest drive a Z06 and daily drive anSTI(both modded)buddy so lay off his ass noob. [>:]

And if you seriously think a vette is ugly, or don't like a vette guy in this forum, get the hell out of the street/strip section my friend. The vette is as much as america's car(maybe more high-end)as the mustang and a hell of a lot faster and better at handling.Com'on :eek:

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

What made you cross to the dark side? :D



LOL! 505HP, go karthandling, and a 6 speed will do that to you. And in no way do I consider vette convertersgoing to thedarkside. F-bodies as you all know are another story though since they directly compete withmustangs.

One of my toughest races ever was against a modded fox body. The weight on those things just makes modifications more potent.

+1 to SteelStang

Ed - aka BickeyBam is mad cool.... a lightly modded fox notch has a huge weight advantage /

ORIGINAL: nacanitihs

ya i raced one at the track. i ran a 14.1 and he was runnin 14.8s all day


A 14.8 is what a stock Fox usually runs on average, well around there. A stock S197 with a good driver will run mid 13's all day long.

To the OP, you have a strong running Fox, probably putting down upwards of 260-270rwhp, which is what a stock S197 puts down, but like others have already stated, you weigh about 600-700lbs less than he does.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


your stupidity amazes me given your age... (and before you get all boohoo wah wah, you started the namecalling... I know you started whining about that in another thread, so I wanted to save you that straw to grasp at;))if you don't want me to argue with you why on earth would you take this thread and spiral it into a heated debate over my "opinion" that wasn't even directed at you nor has anything to do with the original topic?

this seems to be a pattern with you... noted

you opened up this can of worms, and now I will ask you again... is little baby done?

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


your stupidity amazes me given your age... (and before you get all boohoo wah wah, you started the namecalling... I know you started whining about that in another thread ;))if you don't want me to argue with you why on earth would you take this thread and spiral it into a heated debate over my "opinion" that wasn't even directed at you?

this seems to be a pattern with you... noted

you opened up this can of worms, and now I will ask you again... is little baby done?


So you're telling me that I'm not the only one you get in arguments and debates with? [8D]

lol, well I do it with everyone but most of the time it ends peacefully, and most people don't snipe my posts and then try to pass it off like I started it as a way out [8D]

at least when I debate with you it's abouta disagreement in theOP.... not over a personal opinionI had halfway through the thread, it's honestly getting old dealing withover the hillmembers around every post I make here

I could say an average ballsack should have X amount of lint critters on the pubesthen lowand behold vettes would fall from the heavens disagreeing with me about it

I take comfort in the fact knowing that wherever this thread goes now is on his hands because he had to get a word in on something I had an opinion about, basically only concerned with me and not the OP... well now he's got my attention

http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles/smiley/bustedsign.gif

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

lol, well I do it with everyone but most of the time it ends peacefully, and most people don't snipe my posts and then try to pass it off like I started it as a way out [8D]

at least when I debate with you it's abouta disagreement in theOP.... not over a personal opinionI had halfway through the thread, it's honestly getting old dealing withover the hillmembers around every post I make here

I could say an average ballsack should have X amount of lint critters on the pubesthen lowand behold vettes would fall from the heavens disagreeing with me about it

I take comfort in the fact knowing that wherever this thread goes now is on his hands because he had to get a word in on something I had an opinion about, basically only concerned with me and not the OP... well now he's got my attention


Very true, we always end up debating/arguing about something and then its over, and you're right, it is usually about the OP or whatever he said. I got busted on my opinion a few days ago, but I guess not everyone can have one of those anymore.

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions


I could say an average ballsack should have X amount of lint critters on the pubesthen lowand behold vettes would fall from the heavens disagreeing with me about it




HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! The kid actually made me laugh out loud.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Fair enough. Next time a GTO runs a 13.6 at the track, I will assume he had full bolt ons too.

The OP claims to have ripped the S197 a new one. I highly doubt the car was modded. I think you argue for the sake of arguing.



Nice burn! I'm not sure who you were talking to though, maybe I just tuned his ass out.:eek:

To the OP, were you really that clueless or did you just want to brag about your car in street/strip? And you probably will not see the 300rwhp mark, but you should get within 20~rwhp. The trickflow setup is pretty stout. My buddy made 310rwhp on a similar setup with a 306.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

To the OP, were you really that clueless or did you just want to brag about your car in street/strip? And you probably will not see the 300rwhp mark, but you should get within 20~rwhp. The trickflow setup is pretty stout. My buddy made 310rwhp on a similar setup with a 306.


Dont you know that some people never venture outside of their section!! i.e (5.0, S197, 4.6)

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

I am - made my point.


your stupidity amazes me given your age... (and before you get all boohoo wah wah, you started the namecalling... I know you started whining about that in another thread, so I wanted to save you that straw to grasp at;))if you don't want me to argue with you why on earth would you take this thread and spiral it into a heated debate over my "opinion" that wasn't even directed at you nor has anything to do with the original topic?

this seems to be a pattern with you... noted

you opened up this can of worms, and now I will ask you again... is little baby done?


I guess the question is are YOU done yet? What made you start up again? All I said is that I was indeed done. Man, you have thin skin.

You really need to grow a pair.

ORIGINAL: nacanitihs

ya i raced one at the track. i ran a 14.1 and he was runnin 14.8s all day


Maybe a well tuned V6, or somebody who doesn't know how to race. My car runs consistent 13.7 without powershifting. The time in my sig was when all the planets aligned properly and I don't expect to beat it. Stock Foxes usually run low 15s.

ORIGINAL: buster

ORIGINAL: nacanitihs

ya i raced one at the track. i ran a 14.1 and he was runnin 14.8s all day


Maybe a well tuned V6, or somebody who doesn't know how to race. My car runs consistent 13.7 without powershifting. The time in my sig was when all the planets aligned properly and I don't expect to beat it. Stock Foxes usually run low 15s.


lol ^+1... but seriously that driver must have sucked ass to be runnin 14.8s in an s197 gt either that or like u said it must have been a modded/tuned v6

+1

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Fair enough. Next time a GTO runs a 13.6 at the track, I will assume he had full bolt ons too.

The OP claims to have ripped the S197 a new one. I highly doubt the car was modded. I think you argue for the sake of arguing.

where do you guys get your cars weighed at???

im pretty interested in finding out what my car weighs, but the only place i can think of is at a trucker station.....

ORIGINAL: 302army187

where do you guys get your cars weighed at???

im pretty interested in finding out what my car weighs, but the only place i can think of is at a trucker station.....


I know a lot of tracks have a scale where you can weigh your car. Mine does

Ditto many tracks have scales and every sanctioned track event under the sun will have scales...;)

I don't want to take sides here, but a snide remark was attempted to be slipped on S197 owners and that's were Bam was coming from. It was a sneaky attempt to throw a flame out. Better off to just come out and say how you really feel about S197 owners...;)

We don't all run 13's by the way...;)

ORIGINAL: Sarge_13.


I know a lot of tracks have a scale where you can weigh your car. Mine does

[/quote]

very cool, to bad my local track doesent open till early april :(

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

To the OP, were you really that clueless or did you just want to brag about your car in street/strip? And you probably will not see the 300rwhp mark, but you should get within 20~rwhp. The trickflow setup is pretty stout. My buddy made 310rwhp on a similar setup with a 306.


Clueless?? About what? That the new Mustangs aren't as fast as all the hype?? I guess I was.....

Clueless that the street/strip section was full of a bunch of whining, arguing, pissed off people........Definitely!!

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

To the OP, were you really that clueless or did you just want to brag about your car in street/strip? And you probably will not see the 300rwhp mark, but you should get within 20~rwhp. The trickflow setup is pretty stout. My buddy made 310rwhp on a similar setup with a 306.


Clueless?? About what? That the new Mustangs aren't as fast as all the hype?? I guess I was.....

Clueless that the street/strip section was full of a bunch of whining, arguing, pissed off people........Definitely!!
Oh Boy.http://i26.tinypic.com/2m5xe86.gif

Probably making 280rwhp in a fairly light car (which is more than the 300crank the heavier S197 is boasting)...I really don't see why you were suprised or even thought it would be a 'close' race.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

To the OP, were you really that clueless or did you just want to brag about your car in street/strip? And you probably will not see the 300rwhp mark, but you should get within 20~rwhp. The trickflow setup is pretty stout. My buddy made 310rwhp on a similar setup with a 306.


Clueless?? About what? That the new Mustangs aren't as fast as all the hype?? I guess I was.....

Clueless that the street/strip section was full of a bunch of whining, arguing, pissed off people........Definitely!!


3klb heads/cam/intake/fullbolton/etc....car vs a stock 3500lb GT Mustang. It's a no brainer.

Maybe you should stay in OT or w/e it is you came from. You'll probably fit in much better there judging by your lack of knowledge on other cars....much less another Mustang.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Clueless?? About what? That the new Mustangs aren't as fast as all the hype?? I guess I was.....

I think you've missed the point. While I congratulate you on your victory over a stock S197 GT.....acting like that makes the new GT's "dog slow" is just rediculous. I can promise you no bone stock Fox body ever ran mid 13's bone stock.......and yea, they do weigh alot less than a new GT.

Let's just put it this way: You beat a stock car with your modded car. That's great. Good kill. But talkin mad s**t because you accomplished that = you getting burned by most members that frequent this section. You don't like that........better stay away from Street/Strip.;)

"this blood" i <3 your car, hahahaha

Off topic...but..nice Zo6

ORIGINAL: 302army187

"this blood" i <3 your car, hahahaha
Thanks man.:)

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(

Nothing worse than beating a stock car in a modified car and then commenting on how slow/ or the saying "I thought they were faster than that"...Kind of like cutting openyour adversary and then throwing salt on the wounds.....It's not needed....

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Clueless?? About what? That the new Mustangs aren't as fast as all the hype?? I guess I was.....

Clueless that the street/strip section was full of a bunch of whining, arguing, pissed off people........Definitely!!


You really don't know much, so you have3 options:
1. Stay here, keep your mouth shut until you've learned stuff about cars and then you can speak.
or

2. http://www.manmadedesigns.com/forumcrap/Dumbass/gtfo.jpg
or
3. http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r96/ckellogg66/gtfo3bp.jpg

You choose.

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(
Thats because there soooooooo damn many of them, so your odds of racing one are pretty good.[&:]

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockLSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(
I tend to agree. And while it is flattering, in a way.........it is starting to get old. I have everything from little put-put 4 bangers (NOT the fast ones) to SUVs to street bikes trying me out......sometimes even in the middle of town[:'(].

Personally, I can't wait until the next bodystyle Mustangs come online.......then maybe I'll get some peace when I'm on the road.[&o]

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockLSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..


True. There are a LOT of S197's running around. Every time I drive somewhere it seems I see like 5 GT's and 35 V6's. [&:] But this is Okieville and there are a lot of people who like Ford. Around here if you can't find a spot in a parcking lot, chances are you could park under a lifted Ford truck.

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockLSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..


Except maybe a 04 GTO..
(This is for the members who love digging up post flaws)

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockLSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..


True. There are a LOT of S197's running around. Every time I drive somewhere it seems I see like 5 GT's and 35 V6's. [&:] But this is Okieville and there are a lot of people who like Ford. Around here if you can't find a spot in a parcking lot, chances are you could park under a lifted Ford truck.



I see your point.....You don't normally see import dealerships in rural middle America..

The problem I have is that in my area the new Mustangs still haven't really predominated the landscape. They are still outnumbered by 94-98 and 99-04 models. Of the S197s that are in this area, 90% of them are sixxer models. S197 GT's are still fairly rare as Mustang sightings go. But of course, this is the heart of truck country. And most guys who might opt for something like a new GT.....end up spending less to pick themselves up a V8 truck instead. The ppl who want to own a Mustang, opt for a V6 for the "look" rather than spending the extra money to get the "go" along with it.

Because of all the hype don't you know.:eek:

ORIGINAL: S8ER01Z

Probably making 280rwhp in a fairly light car (which is more than the 300crank the heavier S197 is boasting)...I really don't see why you were suprised or even thought it would be a 'close' race.

ORIGINAL: modaddict

Ditto many tracks have scales and every sanctioned track event under the sun will have scales...;)

I don't want to take sides here, but a snide remark was attempted to be slipped on S197 owners and that's were Bam was coming from. It was a sneaky attempt to throw a flame out. Better off to just come out and say how you really feel about S197 owners...;)

We don't all run 13's by the way...;)


Bingo.

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockLSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..


True. There are a LOT of S197's running around. Every time I drive somewhere it seems I see like 5 GT's and 35 V6's. [&:] But this is Okieville and there are a lot of people who like Ford. Around here if you can't find a spot in a parcking lot, chances are you could park under a lifted Ford truck.



I see your point.....You don't normally see import dealerships in rural middle America..


Hahaha, but this is SoCal. [&:] Kern County has a lot of descendants of Okies that came out of the Dustbowl in the 30's though(plenty of folks around here still have Oklahoma accents, though slightly watered down). The Bakersfield Metro area is up close to almost 800,000 people now, but pretty much anywhere outside the city is rural by most folks' standards. But even in the city, Ford and Chevy trucks dominate the roadways. There's a huge import crowd as well, but mostly young highschoolers and a few college folk. There is no end to lifted Ford trucks though. If I ever drove around Bako and didn't see a lifted Ford truck, I'd start thinking Twilight Zone.

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

ORIGINAL: C6 VETTE

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

It seems to me that the S197 GT's have become some sort of a benchmark. Everyone from LSX cars to ricers to other Mustang guys seem to want to race the S197's now. Hardly anyone ever wants to race me.Â*:(


Deleting the ricers in your comment.....Would'nt you say that comment could go both ways...?
I don't think as of yet a Stock Mustang GT from any year can beat a stockÂ*LSx powered car up to this point...And since there are a gazillion Mustang GT's roaming the streets of our great nation, I'm sure these matchups will be heard about quite often..


True. There are a LOT of S197's running around. Every time I drive somewhere it seems I see like 5 GT's and 35 V6's. [&:] But this is Okieville and there are a lot of people who like Ford. Around here if you can't find a spot in a parcking lot, chances are you could park under a lifted Ford truck.



I see your point.....You don't normally see import dealerships in rural middle America..


Hahaha, but this is SoCal. [&:] Kern County has a lot of descendants of Okies that came out of the Dustbowl in the 30's though(plenty of folks around here still have Oklahoma accents, though slightly watered down). The Bakersfield Metro area is up close to almost 800,000 people now, but pretty much anywhere outside the city is rural by most folks' standards. But even in the city, Ford and Chevy trucks dominate the roadways. There's a huge import crowd as well, but mostly young highschoolers and a few college folk. There is no end to lifted Ford trucks though. If I ever drove around Bako and didn't see a lifted Ford truck, I'd start thinking Twilight Zone.



I frequent the Bakersfield area. Man I love to floor the gas on that nice, wide 99FWY!

Yeah, it's nice and wide through some of the city. You just gotta watch out, people around here drive like maniacs sometimes. The stretch of 99 from the Grapevine(where it's still the 5) up to around Taft Hwy is so long and straight too, plenty of leg stretching room at night when there's no traffic.

Ford did a pretty good job making the stock S197 tame. That also includes the 500.
I still remember looking a the sales guy during the test drive and asking him if Ford would put gears, tune and CAI in it before it was delivered. I mean the thing was REALLY slow.

BTW, You have a pretty sick ride[sm=gears.gif]



ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: modaddict

Ditto many tracks have scales and every sanctioned track event under the sun will have scales...;)

I don't want to take sides here, but a snide remark was attempted to be slipped on S197 owners and that's were Bam was coming from. It was a sneaky attempt to throw a flame out. Better off to just come out and say how you really feel about S197 owners...;)

We don't all run 13's by the way...;)


Bingo.



there are certain S197 members who overglorify the car... theres no way around it, I stated the fact and my opinion on the subjectthen bam wanted to argue it


bam wanting to argue it is where the arguement came from, if bam diddn't want to argue it we would still be talking about the OP right now, and not me, my GTO, or what "I" did,

other members, moderators and admins agree with me in both this thread and the standpoint on the S197 owners so I really don't think you guyskeeping a dead point aroundis really helping you sway a decision

I will say this simple sentence again which isn't too hard to understand
bam wanting to argue it is where the arguement came from

^^ arguements never came from opinions, they start with someone challenging those opinions... I rest my case



god spoke and he said "with this thread maturity does not come with age"

Hey OP,

Mine is stock, I will run you!

Although it is a fellow Mustang...be nice but good rip!

everyone, shut up

..lol

as to the guy who made the " no bone stock Fox ever went mid 13's"

some will argue that a manua,l weight reduced, DR'd fox going 13.6@98 is bone stock

Please can the admin/mod bs. I've never received a single PM from any of them regarding my posts. I'm sure you have friends that have your back, just like I do that have mine.

There was no reason to take a swipe at "certain" S197 owners. Not a single one said a thing about the OP's race. But you felt the need to throw in a preemptive strike. So I felt the need to call you on it. Guilty as charged. I can admit that, but you won't ever admit to anything and I find that sad and immature. I will also admit that I have much less of a tolerance for your posts because I think you're a jackass. Oh, and that's my opinion, so please don't argue it.

grow up

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

grow up


:eek:

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: modaddict

Ditto many tracks have scales and every sanctioned track event under the sun will have scales...;)

I don't want to take sides here, but a snide remark was attempted to be slipped on S197 owners and that's were Bam was coming from. It was a sneaky attempt to throw a flame out. Better off to just come out and say how you really feel about S197 owners...;)

We don't all run 13's by the way...;)


Bingo.



there are certain S197 members who overglorify the car... theres no way around it, I stated the fact and my opinion on the subjectthen bam wanted to argue it


bam wanting to argue it is where the arguement came from, if bam diddn't want to argue it we would still be talking about the OP right now, and not me, my GTO, or what "I" did,

other members, moderators and admins agree with me in both this thread and the standpoint on the S197 owners so I really don't think you guyskeeping a dead point aroundis really helping you sway a decision

I will say this simple sentence again which isn't too hard to understand
bam wanting to argue it is where the arguement came from

^^ arguements never came from opinions, they start with someone challenging those opinions... I rest my case



god spoke and he said "with this thread maturity does not come with age"


I don't see it as he "wanted" to argue but rather while you made remarks to it being "strong running possibly modded" he simply pointed out the OP stated the S197 was totally stock.

I think if you truly believe that is was modded your argument is with the OP rather than with BicketyBam, since he was only repeating what the OP posted.

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT


some will argue that a manua,l weight reduced, DR'd fox going 13.6@98 is bone stock

Nice. I feel up to a good flame war. What does a manual, weight reduced, DR'd S197 run again???:D

;)

his post history states he always wants to argue with me

and untill he decides to actually act like an adult I won't be reading his arguementive posts anytime soon

ORIGINAL: Black GT


I don't see it as he "wanted" to argue but rather while you made remarks to it being "strong running possibly modded" he simply pointed out the OP stated the S197 was totally stock.

I think if you truly believe that is was modded your argument is with the OP rather than with BicketyBam, since he was only repeating what the OP posted.



I agree. Morbid just doesn't like to be second guessed or have anything he says looked over. The OP stated the GT was stock (or was supposedly stock). Morbid wanted to throw in a rib about it being "probably modded".....and thus a demonstration of how the new Stangs are not "all that". Bick caught it....and Morbid got pissed cuz of that.

I understand that there are alot of S197 owners who are cocky and full of it. But there are just as many such guys who own Foxes, SN95's, and New Edges. I don't see how this is trait is exclusive to the owners of the new Mustangs.

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
Morbid wanted to throw in a rib about it being "probably modded".....and thus a demonstration of how the new Stangs are not "all that". Bick caught it....and Morbid got pissed cuz of that.



I put the "possibly modded" comment to counter this gem of a post

You probably raced a stock auto. The car really needs and intake and tune. It runs on 87 octane from the factory for christ's sake!:eek:


averyone and their granma knows the OP's car could trounce alot better than that

S&S is slowly becoming OT's sandbox, it becomes more and more apparent after every passing day

Why are you still attacking me?

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
Morbid wanted to throw in a rib about it being "probably modded".....and thus a demonstration of how the new Stangs are not "all that". Bick caught it....and Morbid got pissed cuz of that.



I put the "possibly modded" comment to counter this gem of a post

You probably raced a stock auto. The car really needs and intake and tune. It runs on 87 octane from the factory for christ's sake!:eek:


averyone and their granma knows the OP's car could trounce alot better than that

S&S is slowly becoming OT's sandbox, it becomes more and more apparent after every passing day
All this muss and fuss over a post made by Moose???:D
Com'on man, that dude should be on your ignore list by now.[8D]

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

I understand that there are alot of S197 owners who are cocky and full of it. But there are just as many such guys who own Foxes, SN95's, and New Edges. I don't see how this is trait is exclusive to the owners of the new Mustangs.



IMO, that's why there are more cocky owners of the S197s over the other bodystyles...and I'm sure that will be the same once the S197 is replaced with whatever new style, and more of their owners will be cocky/overconfident. I personally haven't met a Fox owner that was really cocky...at least without having some work done to it. ;) Some other New Edgers....eh, not quite the same story.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Why are you still attacking me?



because you opened yourself up for it,and yourconstant final word posts following me around are getting old, and are completely off topic

you wonder why we always argue? it's because you always try to find something wrong with what I have to say and your dislike for me gets in the way of you staying on topic

I'm just addressing that fact

OMG people. Can't we just get along and move on. To the OP...good kill.

ORIGINAL: 99GTvert

IMO, that's why there are more cocky owners of the S197s over the other bodystyles...and I'm sure that will be the same once the S197 is replaced with whatever new style, and more of their owners will be cocky/overconfident. I personally haven't met a Fox owner that was really cocky...at least without having some work done to it. ;) Some other New Edgers....eh, not quite the same story.

You could be right. But I am tired of paying for the backlash against the new cars that has come about because of this. I own three generations of Mustang.

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Why are you still attacking me?



because you opened yourself up for it,and yourconstant final word posts following me around are getting old, and are completely off topic

you wonder why we always argue? it's because you always try to find something wrong with what I have to say and your dislike for me gets in the way of you staying on topic

I'm just addressing that fact


I was on topic. The OP stated the S197 was stock and I was just correcting you. Who would know better? You, or the guy that actually ran him?

And you won't let it go because people actually agreed with me (crickets chirping on your side).

I have to hand it to you. No one will ever accuse you of knowing when to just STFU.

ORIGINAL: 1SLO85

OMG people. Can't we just get along and move on. To the OP...good kill.


+1

glad to see the post above me is "on topic" ::snicker::

chevy guys, huh bryan :D[:'(]

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

his post history states he always wants to argue with me

and untill he decides to actually act like an adult I won't either.




your post history states that youre a moderator of a part of these forums
whether or not he likes to argue with you should not dictate whether or not you are going to act like a mature adult when posting on the internets while being a representative of the site.
it is people like you that give oters a bad name. keep the bickering for that part of the forums, please.

ORIGINAL: tokinGLX

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

his post history states he always wants to argue with me

and untill he decides to actually act like an adult I won't either.




your post history states that youre a moderator of a part of these forums
whether or not he likes to argue with you should not dictate whether or not you are going to act like a mature adult when posting on the internets while being a representative of the site.
it is people like you that give oters a bad name. keep the bickering for that part of the forums, please.



people that give OT'ers a bad name are the people that go into the tech sections with no tech knowlege... end of story

people bicker here worse than OT so I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here, seeing as you never post in this section I wouldn't expect you to see this though

people try to argue with me just to argue with me... the #1 person that does this is bam, and it's getting old.. so I called him on it, and now you aren't helping matters any by chiming in after the debate is finished

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

people that give OT'ers a bad name are the people that go into the tech sections with no tech knowlege... end of story

people bicker here worse than OT so I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here, seeing as you never post in this section I wouldn't expect you to see this though

people try to argue with me just to argue with me... the #1 person that does this is bam, and it's getting old.. so I called him on it, and now you aren't helping matter any by chiming in after the debate is finished




no. it is NOT the "end of story"
do you not get it¿
youre acting like a child. youre a moderator.
that is the end of the story.

arguing is not a one way street. it takes two people to engage in an argument, and the longer you refuse to admit you are a part of the problem, the longer you will be the problem.
keep bickering if you wish, but our discussion is over.

EDIT:

you're right, I'm done... but me being a mod has nothing to do with saying I cannot defend myself against an annoying fly doing what it does best

last time I PM'ed theguy trying to resolvesomething via PM'she came back shooting his mouth off and now uses it as an attack on the boards

"am I going to get a whiney PM now?"

so there is no right way with him, and quite honestly I can only take an old man following me around staring over my shoulder for so long.... reminds me of a god damnretirement home

What is the big arguement about! Everyone needs to just chill!

Are S197's heavy? Compared to the OP's Notch definately. Mine weighed 3420 lb with 1/4 tank of fuel.
Thats 540 lb heavier than a late 80's A/C Delete Notch. Their not Terminator heavy but they are heavy.

Are they slow? Thats relative. Stock for Stock they are about 8/10 second faster than a Notch.
I will be happy to race the OP in my extremely mild S197 (Im in N. Alabama). Just show up at Steele any Sunday.
I imagine AmericanSpeed would be happy to give him a run at Orlando Speedworld if hes in N.Florida.
If hes looking for a faster car their are many faster cars on here. Im sure their are plenty to choose from.
Just choose your flavor from 8's to 13's....Ive been beaten by everthing from Foxes to Chevy Truck.
Im not afraid to get beaten again....

EDIT:

Done.

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

so there is no right way with him, and quite honestly I can only take an old man following me around staring over my shoulder for so long.... reminds me of a god damnÂ*retirement home




bahahahahaha :D

EDIT: page 6 of this epic thread has been owned...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/richardwitham/funny_cat_pictures_023.jpg

Good kill, OP

ORIGINAL: dickwitham

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

so there is no right way with him, and quite honestly I can only take an old man following me around staring over my shoulder for so long.... reminds me of a god damnretirement home




bahahahahaha :D

EDIT: page 6 of this epic thread has been owned...



:eek:

Dude, you've got something on your chin.

ORIGINAL: OnyxCobra

Nice kill. I've driven a few and was not very impressed by the one i really got to get on. First gear felt okay but 2nd and 3rd on the highway were not impressive. Probably needed some gears. Remember they are heeaavy.


The butt dyno isn't very accurate in the S197. Mine runs 12.2@114 and feels slower than my 1985 GT that I had running 12.8's, that car felt like it was hauling arse.

As my brother put it, "this is the fastest, smoothestslow feeling car I've ever been in". This was a statement of a person who used to own an LS6 Chevelle...

My S197 weighs in at 3785 with my fat arse in it and 1/4 of a tank of gas, my 1985 GT weigh in at 3350 with me and a 1/4 of a tank of gas. I could be in the 11's right now with my driveline in a Fox... hmmmmmm not abad idea... :D

What does a full bolt on New Edge run? I believe JDaniels went 12.9X with every possible bolt on. Has that been improved upon? In any event, there is a thread on here of a guy running 12.4X in his bolt on S197. I think that's pretty impressive.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


My first race against a Fox with similar setup as yours I had the cold air and tune in mine and I pulled him by around 1 to 2 cars, my average at that time was a 13.40. Driving on the street = heat soak and lousy times. The 3V has lousy air flow into the engine bay and in my humble opinion is much slower (a few tenths at least)when driven on the street than when allowed to cool at the track.

I once tried back to back runs at the track, 1st was a 13.42, second was a 13.70 with similar launch and short times, I blame it on heat soak, something I never had to worry about in my 5.0 days.

I smoked a 5.0 when I had just my cai/tune and exhaust.. as a matter of a fact, it was a black one just like yours...LOL..no joke. he had slight mods...

ORIGINAL: SONICBOOST3

I smoked a 5.0 when I had just my cai/tune and exhaust.. as a matter of a fact, it was a black one just like yours...LOL..no joke. he had slight mods...


5.0's are all over the place but I had my buddies 1987 LX hatch run 14.1 with timing adjusted, silencer removed and front sway bar removed, he averaged 14.1 with just that done. So with a good driver and some very simple mods Fox bodied 5.0's can get into the 13's VERY easily. I raced them for over 20 years, when Ford dropped the 5.0 I was so pissed I couldn't see straight, then I drove the 1997 Mustang GT and bought one, damn thing bone stock was a solid 15.1 car, poor thing got no respect. My 1996 Lincoln Mark VIII ran 15.0 for Pete's sakes.

I digress, what was the topic again?

I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.


+100 I had an 89 hatch and it was a fun car - my S197 is better all around IMHO

OP........good kill. you have one of the nicest, cleanest fox's i've ever seen. its beautiful. and the n/a mods, thats exactly what i would do if i had a fox haha

any chance we can get some more pics/vids of the car?

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.


+100Â* I had an 89 hatch and it was a fun car - my S197 is better all around IMHO



Be careful, some people don't like S197 pride in a Mustangforum.

I know it's foolish but what can you do..

The butt dyno isn't very accurate in the S197. Mine runs 12.2@114 and feels slower than my 1985 GT that I had running 12.8's, that car felt like it was hauling arse.

As my brother put it, "this is the fastest, smoothestslow feeling car I've ever been in". This was a statement of a person who used to own an LS6 Chevelle...

This was very similar to the same thought I had when comparing. I also own an S197 and an '87 GT, the Fox feels like it is flying while the S197 was much smoother and solid feeling. To the OP, nice ride, gotta love a clean Fox.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers
ORIGINAL: Stkjock
ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt
I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.

+100 I had an 89 hatch and it was a fun car - my S197 is better all around IMHO

Be careful, some people don't like S197 pride in a Mustangforum.
I know it's foolish but what can you do..


Mr. Rogers,

Thanks for the concern.....I'm a big boy with a thick skin!!!

The Formula 1 guys have a saying that you occasionally hear. When it looks like it's going fast...it's not, when it looks like it's going smooth, it's fast.

ORIGINAL: MrRogers


Be careful, some people don't like S197 pride in a Mustangforum.

I know it's foolish but what can you do..




plenty of pride in my S197 here. hope no one minds too much. :D
is it heavy? yeah i guess. any car with me in it is heavy, beings I weigh over 330 lbs...LOL

by the way, Bickety Bam...Morbid.... only way you guys are resolving this is with a boxing/mixed martial arts match. Guys on here would pay hard cash to se it. w can donate it to charity.

I have Gloves and headgear. buy your own mouthguards though, as using mine would just be disgusting and unhygienic.

just throwin it out there

I've seen pics of Morbid, but never of Ed. I'd still bet on Ed. Morbid is like 120lbs and 6' it looks like. Nice style for a hairdresser, but not a fighter. No offense Morbid, I like your style.

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

I've seen pics of Morbid, but never of Ed. I'd still bet on Ed. Morbid is like 120lbs and 6' it looks like. Nice style for a hairdresser, but not a fighter. No offense Morbid, I like your style.


You're off by quite a bit. ;)

90lbs.....:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/ECondreras/IMG_1361.jpg

I'm not a big guy, but the day I start fighting guys from the internet is the day I check myself in to the psych ward. :D

I do have tattoos though and like stickers for your car, they add power. ;)

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

Finally had a S197 roll next to me at a light :D

Rolled down the window....he said his was a year old, totally stock...VERY CLEAN

I asked him if he wanted to take a run......he was down......and then he got a REALLY good view of my rear bumper ;)

I tell you, I thought with the big 300+HP numbers that they boast that it would have been a little closer......I really blew him out

You guys have any experience with racing them??


First of all, when I originally posted this thread, my question was aimed at the 5.0 community.....the moderators kicked it over to this section...

So for all of you thinking that I was bragging, talking sh*t..... I think you got me wrong......

Just like someone said a few pages back, the S197s are a strong car, and they are now looked at like a new benchmark. It was the same when the SN95s dropped, and was the same with the 5.0s before that (even though all the ricers still benchmark the 5.0s :)

When the SN95s hit the market....I was excited when I beat the "New Mustang" with my '86......and now, it was my "FIRST" time racing a S197....so I thought I would kick it around in the 5.0 section.........instead I got thrown over here and got ripped apart?!?!?

I meant no Disrespect to the Vette guy either......I was just playing on the Ford vs Chevy battle......I think he knew that, because the only ones that got pissed was some other guy...

Bottom line, I come on the forums to chill...on the 5.0 side it is a lot more laid back....I had no idea what a cutthroat community you guys got going over here......this thread went on for 6 pages of arguing...LOL!! Then again, I guess a Street/Strip Section mixed with all the different flavors of Mustangs and Chevys.....I should have expected it :D

I like your green jets jacket.
:D:D:D:D:D


No seriously..

You have a great family.

E-fights are for emos.

It's all good bro. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about your ride or you.

Just curious. Do YOU think the S197 was stock. You would know if it had an exhaust. And have you ever run your car at the track?

LOL this thread went from zero to retarded in record time[8D]Nice looking kids........Must look like there momma.:Djk.

Thats no joke!!

ORIGINAL: MrRogers

I like your green jets jacket.
:D:D:D:D:D


No seriously..

You have a great family.

E-fights are for emos.


He roots more for players in football than teams. It's the video game generation. I'm the idiot Jets fan.

To keep this street/strip related, I am trying to get him into cars and racing, but he has no interest. When I was his age (13 in May), all I could think about were cars. But then again, I had an older brother with a 77 Camaro with side pipes. I loved that car.

I was a late bloomer with the cars thing. I didn't really start liking cars with a passion until I hit 19 or so.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

It's all good bro. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about your ride or you.

Just curious. Do YOU think the S197 was stock. You would know if it had an exhaust. And have you ever run your car at the track?



The car was most likely stock.....Who knows, he may of had a few bolt-ons...but I trust what the guy said......He wasn't some punk kid rolling up at a light talking sh*t....and his exhaust was quiet........

No....I haven't had the chance to hit the track, the closest one is like 3hrs away......

Sometimes it can be really hard to tell if someone is stock or not. Maybe they have a quiet turbo and are running stock looking/sounding exhaust and either don't push the car, or drive what seems like a 13.60's for a street car(that really should run 11's or 12's) but they just can't drive. I think we've all seen folks at the track with 14.50+ S197's or 13 second LS7's etc. If a car is obviously not stock then you know it's not stock, but if it looks and sounds stock it most likely is, but it could be a sleeper too. It seems like for the most part though, cars that look and sound stock generally are. Exhaust is a good way to tell, since generally when someone starts modding a car they begin with the exhaust.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

It's all good bro. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about your ride or you.

Just curious. Do YOU think the S197 was stock. You would know if it had an exhaust. And have you ever run your car at the track?



The car was most likely stock.....Who knows, he may of had a few bolt-ons...but I trust what the guy said......He wasn't some punk kid rolling up at a light talking sh*t....and his exhaust was quiet........

No....I haven't had the chance to hit the track, the closest one is like 3hrs away......


If/when you go, do you have an idea what time you would be shooting for? What do similiar setups run on your car?

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

I meant no Disrespect to the Vette guy either......I was just playing on the Ford vs Chevy battle......I think he knew that, because the only ones that got pissed was some other guy...



My bad dude, I didn't know you were joking. And you were just a little ignorant about the S197's compared to your well modded 5.0. It's ok. And don't worry, there was an S197 thread moved here talking of another stock for stock race and the S197 guys got powned by the street/strip guys. These S197 GT guys actuallythought there car was god's gift and madeit sound like a C5 vette killer.Check it out:
http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4834838/tm.htm

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

Sometimes it can be really hard to tell if someone is stock or not. Maybe they have a quiet turbo and are running stock looking/sounding exhaust and either don't push the car, or drive what seems like a 13.60's for a street car(that really should run 11's or 12's) but they just can't drive. I think we've all seen folks at the track with 14.50+ S197's or 13 second LS7's etc. If a car is obviously not stock then you know it's not stock, but if it looks and sounds stock it most likely is, but it could be a sleeper too. It seems like for the most part though, cars that look and sound stock generally are. Exhaust is a good way to tell, since generally when someone starts modding a car they begin with the exhaust.


I could understand fibbing if it was some sort of grudge match or if money was on the line. But like Fox said - it was a cooler dude and he asked him to race.

Anyway, maybe I'm a n00b, but if someone asked me to race and that if I was stock, I'd tell them intake and a tune if I was in the Z and full bolt ons with meth with the STI. Maybe I am just too honest. :D

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

Sometimes it can be really hard to tell if someone is stock or not. Maybe they have a quiet turbo and are running stock looking/sounding exhaust and either don't push the car, or drive what seems like a 13.60's for a street car(that really should run 11's or 12's) but they just can't drive. I think we've all seen folks at the track with 14.50+ S197's or 13 second LS7's etc. If a car is obviously not stock then you know it's not stock, but if it looks and sounds stock it most likely is, but it could be a sleeper too. It seems like for the most part though, cars that look and sound stock generally are. Exhaust is a good way to tell, since generally when someone starts modding a car they begin with the exhaust.


I had a supercharger with the stock exhaust, but the whine from the blower was to loud.:D You wouldn't be able to tell if the car had an intake and tune. Morbid may not want to here it, but those two mods do make a huge difference on the 3v.

Nice kill OP. I'm a track regular and I've seen plenty of S197s run terrible times (the majority of them). With a good driver though, and around $700 in mods, they can see 12s. That sucks you don't have a track nearby, it is extremely fun and addicting. You should def try and head out at least once though, it's an experience every car enthusiast should have. Good kill man, and definently come back to S/S section, It def has a melting pot of information.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

It's all good bro. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about your ride or you.

Just curious. Do YOU think the S197 was stock. You would know if it had an exhaust. And have you ever run your car at the track?



The car was most likely stock.....Who knows, he may of had a few bolt-ons...but I trust what the guy said......He wasn't some punk kid rolling up at a light talking sh*t....and his exhaust was quiet........

No....I haven't had the chance to hit the track, the closest one is like 3hrs away......


If/when you go, do you have an idea what time you would be shooting for? What do similiar setups run on your car?



From what I heard/read......the right tires should put me deep in the 12s.........

Considering I never raced on a track, 12s will probably be my 1/8 time LOL:D

ORIGINAL: AmericanSpeed

Nice kill OP. I'm a track regular and I've seen plenty of S197s run terrible times (the majority of them). With a good driver though, and around $700 in mods, they can see 12s. That sucks you don't have a track nearby, it is extremely fun and addicting. You should def try and head out at least once though, it's an experience every car enthusiast should have. Good kill man, and definently come back to S/S section, It def has a melting pot of information.



I am moving back to Long Island in the next couple of weeks.....and there is no track there either [:@]

I am pretty sure the closest one is in Jersey....proabably about 2 hours.......which is definitely do-able

It is probably better since it is far though......it will keep me from getting too addicted ;)

What do you think your trap speed will be?

Yeah, you become addicted.

Maybe I will run into you at Englishtown. Look for the guy running 13's in the Yellow Z06.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Maybe I will run into you at Englishtown.Â* Look for the guy running 13's in the Yellow Z06.Â*


LOL

Don't feel bad about your first few passes.

I did horribly in my C5 Z06 the first few times out.

Have you bought a helmet yet?

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Maybe I will run into you at Englishtown. Look for the guy running 13's in the Yellow Z06.


So that is the Jersey track I heard about....Englishtown?? How do you like it?

Is it normally packed.....how many runs do you get in a day??

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...
I am moving back to Long Island in the next couple of weeks.....and there is no track there either [:@]

I am pretty sure the closest one is in Jersey....proabably about 2 hours.......which is definitely do-able


there are 3 in NJ - Island, Englishtown and Atco. Depending where on LI you are they are 1.5-2.5 hours away.

Englishtown has a pretty good rep and I hear Fridays are not that packed (as compared to weekends and Wednesdays when it's open to unmuffled vehicles).

Rog - I own a bike, remember? So yes to the helmet. :)

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...
I am moving back to Long Island in the next couple of weeks.....and there is no track there either [:@]

I am pretty sure the closest one is in Jersey....proabably about 2 hours.......which is definitely do-able


there are 3 in NJ - Island, Englishtown and Atco. Depending where on LI you are they are 1.5-2.5 hours away.



Thanks for the info.....I just Googled them, seems like Englishtown is the closest.......where do you like to go?

BTW, I am out in Suffolk.....

Are you an old guy like me and Stkjock? Just curious. We could grab a beer after some racing at ETown, assuming you're 21.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Are you an old guy like me and Stkjock? Just curious. We could grab a beer after some racing at ETown, assuming you're 21.





31...........and Definitely

I am getting out of the military, and moving back home to Long Island......My first order of business is to get my car dyno-tuned.......next stop........Englishtown!!

E- town is the closest, and is the best of the three as far as the facility. I've been to all three but only raced at E-town and Island due to rain @ Atco. Etown gets the most cars and on a TnT you get the fewest runs in. Island, which is an easy drive off Rt 80, is where u usually can get the most runs on a TnT.

I have plans to hit each on a rental day this spring!!!

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

E- town is the closest, and is the best of the three as far as the facility. I've been to all three but only raced at E-town and Island due to rain @ Atco. Etown gets the most cars and on a TnT you get the fewest runs in. Island, which is an easy drive off Rt 80, is where u usually can get the most runs on a TnT.

I have plans to hit each on a rental day this spring!!!



Rental Day??

Does ETown prep the track on a TnT night like they do on the weekends?

Ed- I'm not sure on the prep situation. I'd guess they always prep the first 60'

a rental day is a day when the track is rented privately by a group to run. usually its limited to 15-20 cars and you can make 15-25 passes depending on how long you let your car cool down between runs. On rental days you pay to have the track sprayed with VHT - the more track prep'd the more $$ it costs

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

Ed- I'm not sure on the prep situation. I'd guess they always prep the first 60'

a rental day is a day when the track is rented privately by a group to run. usually its limited to 15-20 cars and you can make 15-25 passes depending on how long you let your car cool down between runs. On rental days you pay to have the track sprayed with VHT - the more track prep'd the more $$ it costs



OK.....I thought that is what you meant.........for a second, I thought you were going to Hertz, renting a Mustang......and hitting the track...LOL :D

I think as a general rule of thumb drivers that seem cool and don't act sketchy are most likely telling the truth about whether they're modded or not. The guys that are like "Uh.....it's.....it's stock....." can't always be trusted.

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...


I meant no Disrespect to the Vette guy either......I was just playing on the Ford vs Chevy battle......I think he knew that, because the only ones that got pissed was some other guy...

Bottom line, I come on the forums to chill...on the 5.0 side it is a lot more laid back....I had no idea what a cutthroat community you guys got going over here......this thread went on for 6 pages of arguing...LOL!! Then again, I guess a Street/Strip Section mixed with all the different flavors of Mustangs and Chevys.....I should have expected it :D

Well, it can be jarring for some Mustang guys the first time they come in this section. But if you take a bit of time to read up you learn that Mr Rogers (guy with black Z06 Vette) owns a New Edge GT also, Bicketybam (guy with yellow Z06 Vette) used to own a supercharged New Edge GT, and C6Vette (dunno if he posted in this thread offhand) also owns a GT. So these aren't "Chevy" guys in the typical sense of the word.;)

Either way, I'm glad things calmed down in this thread finally. And as mentioned before, you'll findStreet/Strip to be a very informative and gratifying section to hang out in. Heck, this is the only section I frequent nowadays.:D Yea, you get some rivalries and bickering on a fairly regular basis......but the good stuff far outweighs the bad.

And if I didn't mention it before........good kill. Owning anh/c/i '93 myself, I know full well that its capable of putting stockish S197 GTs back to the rear.:)

ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...

31...........and Definitely

I am getting out of the military, and moving back home to Long Island......My first order of business is to get my car dyno-tuned.......next stop........Englishtown!!


Best shop for dyno tuning on LI - IMO - Realspeed Auto in Bohemia! Call them when you can as they are booking 6-8 weeks out for dyno time!! The owner of the shop as a 90 GT that runs mid 10s! Tell him Dave with the grey s197 - Vortech GT Vert - refered you

ORIGINAL: 98LS1

I've seen pics of Morbid, but never of Ed. I'd still bet on Ed. Morbid is like 120lbs and 6' it looks like. Nice style for a hairdresser, but not a fighter. No offense Morbid, I like your style.


pain tolerance training FTW... one of my fathers friends back home was with the GRU, taught me alot ;)


don't like to talk about it too much onlinebut since it was brought up

I'm also banned from the state of oregon because of that fact.... back when I was 18 I had it out with the cops and I got hit with a tazer and diddn't feel much... then ripped it out,some mace and bean bag bullets later I was still shrugging it off, finally I just gave up... 2 months in the lincoln county jail, judge told me to go back home to michigan and never to set foot in oregon again

the last time someone caught my jaw I just smirked and walked away... people aren't really worth my time unless it's life threatening, espessially with my record

I wouldn't reccomend going through the training to anyone though... it's rough and unforgiving, espessially with a russian lol

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)
Indeed...and Fox, I've taken down stock S197 GT's with less in my arsenal than you have. The S197 guys tar and feathered me for even mentioning the notion. Remember when I PM'd you. I think you would run an LS1 (up until the speedo surpassed digits that constitute a race) fairly well. I am not surprised at all a well done Trickflow H/C/I notch with your other mods beat a S197 GT. Frankly, I'd have been very dissappointed if you didn't. Just so you know, they will do better from a roll where they already have inertia working in their favour. That and the 3V. But you should still get them...Nice kill and an even nicer car. But not as nice as mine though;).

yeah, and that was the meat and potatoes of the post, I'm glad there areintelligent members here that can see that

a CAI+tune S197 will put down around 280-290RWHP.... his car as it stands is probably good for around there too, AND be 700lbs lighter with a better final drive, there is quite alot of room for mods on the said S197 with still alowing the fox to pop off the line and walk away through the gears due to weight

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

yeah, and that was the meat and potatoes of the post, I'm glad there areintelligent members here that can see that

a CAI+tune S197 will put down around 280-290RWHP.... his car as it stands is probably good for around there too, AND be 700lbs lighter with a better final drive, there is quite alot of room for mods on the said S197 with still alowing the fox to pop off the line and walk away through the gears due to weight

Exactly. I've raced a few on the street. Not to beat a dead horse but the most solidified runs I had was when I wanted to try it out for myself (the S197 GT), and not on a 5 minute test drive. I rented one for an almost 2 week vacation and before I left had my friend race mine in it. It was an auto vert, and I got it out of the pit every time. It worked better as things moved out but the race was already won and lost by the time things got interesting. And yes, my friend EPITOMIZES the driver mod;)...An H/C/I notch with the other **** this guy has should dryf$#k a new stocker. I guess comparing modded cars to stock ones even though they make similar power gets you a roman candle in the sh#$tlocker around here...

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT


some will argue that a manua,l weight reduced, DR'd fox going 13.6@98 is bone stock

Nice. I feel up to a good flame war. What does a manual, weight reduced, DR'd S197 run again???:D

;)
I'm not certain but I sure hope it's something impressive to represent almost 17 years of evolution;)

ORIGINAL: Gene K

What is the big arguement about! Everyone needs to just chill!

Are S197's heavy? Compared to the OP's Notch definately. Mine weighed 3420 lb with 1/4 tank of fuel.
Thats 540 lb heavier than a late 80's A/C Delete Notch. Their not Terminator heavy but they are heavy.

Are they slow? Thats relative. Stock for Stock they are about 8/10 second faster than a Notch.
I will be happy to race the OP in my extremely mild S197 (Im in N. Alabama). Just show up at Steele any Sunday.
I imagine AmericanSpeed would be happy to give him a run at Orlando Speedworld if hes in N.Florida.
If hes looking for a faster car their are many faster cars on here. Im sure their are plenty to choose from.
Just choose your flavor from 8's to 13's....Ive been beaten by everthing from Foxes to Chevy Truck.
Im not afraid to get beaten again....
Now here's someone who's attitude is something we need more of around here. Win or lose, the rush is the juice for me...kudo's my friend;)

Gene K always sorts out bitchfests w/ real, legit info.....;)



Kinda like me and 1BAD3V.....:D

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.
I'm still on page 6 or whatever but I don't recall anyone mentioning the word "better" while comparing these cars. I'm sure I'll get reviewed. I think the S197 is an awesome car, just not all that fast without throwing your wallet at it. Just for arguments sake, taking an '89 notch and throwing everything external bolt-on wise and doing the same for an S197 GT (no internals messed with, or blowers) the result in the 1/4 would astonish considering it's been almost 20 f#$king years. I'm just saying is all. Better isn't the right word, the fox is a dinosaur, I think that's been well established. It just happens to be a fast one...

ORIGINAL: Baddog

ORIGINAL: Morbid Intentions

an S197 coupe weighs about 200 more lbs than a new edge coupe... I'd estimate a S197 coupe at around 3700lbs with a driver

a 5.0L LX fox will way around 3,000lbs with a driver...


good kill on a strong running possibly modded S197, don't let the S197 faithful get to ya dude, theres alot of em

you will just learn to tune the select few out after awhile ;)
Indeed...and Fox, I've taken down stock S197 GT's with less in my arsenal than you have. The S197 guys tar and fethered me for even mentioning the notion. Remember when I PM'd you. I think you would run an LS1 (up until the speedo surpassed digits that constitute a race) fairly well. I am not surprised at all a well done Trickflow H/C/I notch with your other mods beat a S197 GT. Frankly, I'd have been very dissappointed if you didn't. Just so you know, they will do better from a roll where they already have inertia working in their favour. That and the 3V. But you should still get them...Nice kill and an even nicer car. But not as nice as mine though;).


Certainly worth a shot! I regularly play with a Black Fox GT with H/C/I that runs essentially the same times I do except he has DR's.
We have a Gentlemans agreement that I get lane choice when we race. Other than that its very even. Im slightly faster on average (1/10) than he is but my car is more inconsistent with the All Seasons...

The OP's car could very well be faster.... I think it would be a fairly close race though. Especially if we are both on real street tires.
Its always fun to play with cars that are in the same speed range (Im getting tired of being picked on by 10.8 @ 132 Turbo Chevy Pickups.)

Clean Foxes are always a treat!

Stick around and I think you will find this section grows on you. We have such a wide range of personalities. It very much reminds me of the track community among the regular track rats....

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

Well, it can be jarring for some Mustang guys the first time they come in this section. But if you take a bit of time to read up you learn that Mr Rogers (guy with black Z06 Vette) owns a New Edge GT also, Bicketybam (guy with yellow Z06 Vette) used to own a supercharged New Edge GT, and C6Vette (dunno if he posted in this thread offhand) also owns a GT. So these aren't "Chevy" guys in the typical sense of the word.;)




Just a family argument! I think you will find for the most part people over here respect each other.
Doesnt stop us from giving each other hell! Certainly doesnt stop the occasional "disagreement.

Car guys are car guys! I have a fair number of Chevydriving friends and we are always wrenching on each others junk.
With the usual good natured kidding about we hope nobody we know sees us under the hood of <insert brand name>.

ORIGINAL: BicketyBam

Englishtown has a pretty good rep and I hear Fridays are not that packed (as compared to weekends and Wednesdays when it's open to unmuffled vehicles).

Rog - I own a bike, remember? So yes to the helmet. :)

I'm gonna stray a bit here only 'cause I remember you saying you like the a$$ in your current avatar. Please tell me it's not your wife...on your bike...with a C6Z06...and a tweaked STi...and kids...and a nice house...if it is you are my American hero:)If it is your wife...I don't care, I wanna wear that ass as a mask...for several hours...

ORIGINAL: Gene K

ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147

Well, it can be jarring for some Mustang guys the first time they come in this section. But if you take a bit of time to read up you learn that Mr Rogers (guy with black Z06 Vette) owns a New Edge GT also, Bicketybam (guy with yellow Z06 Vette) used to own a supercharged New Edge GT, and C6Vette (dunno if he posted in this thread offhand) also owns a GT. So these aren't "Chevy" guys in the typical sense of the word.;)




Just a family argument! I think you will find for the most part people over here respect each other.
Doesnt stop us from giving each other hell! Certainly doesnt stop the occasional "disagreement.

Car guys are car guys! I have a fair number of Chevydriving friends and we are always wrenching on each others junk.
With the usual good natured kidding about we hope nobody we know sees us under the hood of <insert brand name>.
A 12.9 with your mods (and heft;)) is mindbending to me. Congratulations, your S197 GT is certainly one I would not be able to, in my words "take down". I can't be any better than a sound 13.3-13.5 on slicks with my settup. But believe me my friend, I have had my way with S197 GT's and bolt on notches seem to be respected or deemed 5-slow. You seem to have an open mind and for that you've garnered my respect. To illustrate I know how to truthfully show my ass, I've just recentlybeen reeled in by a nicely built N/A Integra GSR. It pissed me off something fierce[:@]...

ORIGINAL: Baddog

If it is your wife...I don't care, I wanna wear that ass as a mask...for several hours...

LMFAO:D:D

ORIGINAL: Baddog

If it is your wife...I don't care, I wanna wear that ass as a mask...for several hours...


Everyones laughing their @sses off, except for Bam

Well then, before I ca$h out...no dissrespect intended yellow z06tyupefeller. I juzt xmesant to sya that chix ass on the 2wehheker is bumlik7in good[8D]. bYE nbNOW!zzzzzz. Ciao kids...:)

Not my wife - just a friend of mine. She sent me the picture and I said it would make a great avatar if she didn't mind. She said no problem.:)

There aren't enough drugs in the world to get my wife on the back of a bike. In fact, she goes pale everytime I mash the gas in the Z.

Can I meet her Ed??? :eek:

ORIGINAL: Stkjock

Can I meet her Ed??? :eek:


She drives the Teal Vette that I posted a picture of in the Englishtown Corvette thread. She races a lot. So sure!

ORIGINAL: nacanitihs

ya i raced one at the track. i ran a 14.1 and he was runnin 14.8s all day


U sure it was a GT?

Another post hijacked by knuckleheads! LOL

Chill out! Life is too hard as it is, why make it harder by arguing! If you two want to flame each other why not start your own threads for this!

ORIGINAL: Baddog

ORIGINAL: bluebeastsrt

I had an 86 fox and it was great for it's time but time marches on. The S197 is a better car. sorry.
I'm still on page 6 or whatever but I don't recall anyone mentioning the word "better" while comparing these cars. I'm sure I'll get reviewed. I think the S197 is an awesome car, just not all that fast without throwing your wallet at it. Just for arguments sake, taking an '89 notch and throwing everything external bolt-on wise and doing the same for an S197 GT (no internals messed with, or blowers) the result in the 1/4 would astonish considering it's been almost 20 f#$king years. I'm just saying is all. Better isn't the right word, the fox is a dinosaur, I think that's been well established. It just happens to be a fast one...
Or we could use the good old stock Vs. Stock Arguement. If your willing to break the bank, My skittle , a Fox , a S197 will all need a parashute at the track. There comes a point when it's just I spent more money than you to be faster when your talking modded cars. I was refering to handling, Interior etc. when I said it was a better car. And sorry but better is still the right word. It's just like comparing a 67 Mustang To an 08 mustang technology has just got better over time.

dead on there Blue!!

ORIGINAL: 08Steeda

Another post hijacked by knuckleheads! LOL

Chill out! Life is too hard as it is, why make it harder by arguing! If you two want to flame each other why not start your own threads for this!


Your a day late and a dollar short.

The arguing has been over..<