I have a 2005 V6 Mustang. So, after about two weeks of hard research and all that good stuff on which supercharger I wanted, I chose the Vortech V2-SQ Polished H/O Aftercooler System. And I decided to have blowbyracing.com do it for me. Their kit is the following and the cost:

V-2 SQ Counter Clockwise S-Trim Supercharger
39lb fuel injecters
3.25' pulley
Bypass Valve
98mm MAF Meter Housing
Custom Tuned/Dynotuned SCT X-Calibrator 2
All belts, pulleys, etc.
Everything necessary for the kit.

= $6000 (tax included)

Now, I told them I wanted a t-lok. Which he said would run about $280. Whats a SC without a t-lok on a V6, right? He said no problem because they are taking out my engine anyways so it will just be part of the supercharger installation. But here's when he got me wondering...

He said that with this kit and the dynotune, they take off the limiter. He said I will be able to hit around 300mph. He said that the V6 Driveshaft is not sufficient past 120mph, and after 120mph, the driveshaft has a high risk of breaking. He said to get a new alumium driveshaft which is $579.

Price with new driveshaft and t-lok....

= $7500 (tax included)
______

Is he right or is he just trying to get more money out of me? Let me know your opinions of this matter please, thank you.

300 mph? HAAA That's hilarious! No effing way. It's impossible.

05s had issues with driveshafts blowing apart at high speed.

If you feel the need to go above 115 for some reason, an aftermarket driveshaft is probably a good idea.

If that guy really believes that you car will go 300mph, I'd find someone else to do the work. You don't want some crackpot doing detailed work on your car.

The McLaren F1's top speed is 231 mph...

Did he say 300 MPH or around 300HP? I could see you going to or a little over 300 HP. If you push your car over 100 MPH (On a drag strip Please not the city streets) after SCing it I would put in a new driveshaft that is now the weakest link in your drivetrain save up for a 8.8 rear end too.

:eek:

lol. The guy said I'd have around 330HP and he said he was going to take off the speed limiter. He said I would definately be able to go over 120mph. I thought it sounded fishy at first but I figured without the limiter, I wouldn't have a limit until my car started falling apart.

It's weird, every other place I talked to about the same kit never mentioned any change of the driveshaft. Except this guy, who said because I won't have a limiter, if I go over 120mph, my driveshaft will shatter or some ****.

I don't believe the aerodynamics of our Mustangs could support going 300mph unless there was jets strapped to it. :)

I would replace your driveshaft and you may want to look into a 8.8 rear in the near future.

ORIGINAL: blue07mustang

I don't believe the aerodynamics of our Mustangs could support going 300mph unless there was jets strapped to it. :)

I would replace your driveshaft and you may want to look into a 8.8 rear in the near future.


Why 8.8 rear? What is it exactly and its function? Sorry, I'm sort of learning as I go.

Hell, I thought taking off the limiter was illegal, but I guess I was wrong.

He's right.

An 8.8 rear is stronger than our 7.5 rear. If you drag race, it is recommended as it is stronger. It's not entierly necessary unless you are going to drag race with sticky tires frequently though.


ORIGINAL: Maverickaf17

lol. The guy said I'd have around 330HP and he said he was going to take off the speed limiter. He said I would definately be able to go over 120mph. I thought it sounded fishy at first but I figured without the limiter, I wouldn't have a limit until my car started falling apart.

It's weird, every other place I talked to about the same kit never mentioned any change of the driveshaft. Except this guy, who said because I won't have a limiter, if I go over 120mph, my driveshaft will shatter or some ****.

HOT DAMN SON!!! 300 mph... **** the bugatti veyron, ccx, and ssc aero better watch their asses lol... anyways i think OP was right about those crazy people saying the 300 mph thing because he then goes on to talk about the driveshaft and 120 mph... the guy probably meant 300hp... but u dont go from talkin about mph to bhp especially when trying to justify the driveshaft thing... i dunno why they said that... its hella weird

I don't really plan on drag racing. I'm just a daily driver with highway/city. Once in a while I like to street race (i know its bad, but I'm stupid and do it anyways) and I like to go to car shows. I've never been to a drag strip, though, when i get my SC I think I will go just to see how it is since I would be able to compete with the cars there.

So what does this 8.8 rear do exactly? Whats the difference between that and the 7.5?

6K install? if I'm not mistaken, the Vortech HO is 4k. That would make for a 2k install and tune???? Your getting ripped off, you might as well go with a turbo at that price.

ORIGINAL: wolfpup

HOT DAMN SON!!! 300 mph... **** the bugatti veyron, ccx, and ssc aero better watch their asses lol... anyways i think OP was right about those crazy people saying the 300 mph thing because he then goes on to talk about the driveshaft and 120 mph... the guy probably meant 300hp... but u dont go from talkin about mph to bhp especially when trying to justify the driveshaft thing... i dunno why they said that... its hella weird


So, basically, EVERYONE agrees that if my car plans to go past 120mph...I do NEED a new, better $575 dollar driveshaft?

ORIGINAL: Trill Gear Head

6K install? if I'm not mistaken, the Vortech HO is 4k. That would make for a 2k install and tune???? Your getting ripped off, you might as well go with a turbo at that price.


I'm getting the polished kit. Which is around 4.2k-4.3k. I'm also getting a smaller pulley.

Don't forget to get'em to fill up the headlights with the halogen fluid!

This shop saw you coming from a mile away.

ORIGINAL: Maverickaf17

ORIGINAL: wolfpup

HOT DAMN SON!!! 300 mph... **** the bugatti veyron, ccx, and ssc aero better watch their asses lol... anyways i think OP was right about those crazy people saying the 300 mph thing because he then goes on to talk about the driveshaft and 120 mph... the guy probably meant 300hp... but u dont go from talkin about mph to bhp especially when trying to justify the driveshaft thing... i dunno why they said that... its hella weird


So, basically, EVERYONE agrees that if my car plans to go past 120mph...I do NEED a new, better $575 dollar driveshaft?


yezzir... with ur supercharger i suggest u get the driveshaft

I think he was making a joke. Reflashing the tune for the supercharger will remove the limiter (it's programmed, not a physical thing). The stock driveshaft is a heavy total POS and can come apart at high speed. The stock vehicle with the limiter removed is easily capable of exceeding the safe speed of the driveshaft. The much lighter aluminum aftermarket driveshaft will put more horsepower to the rear where you need it rather than turning a heavy piece of steel. I would alsoconsider the stronger 8.8 (GT takeoff) over the 7.5 t-lok but that is not as high a priority as the driveshaft. The 7.5 in most cases (unless you slam it alot) will hold up.
Watch your activity on the street, in many (most?) states not only will theyhammer you in court but they will permanently take your car away.

an 8.8 would be wise. you can get the takeoff rear for $875 from hillbank i think with gears already in it....as for the driveshaft, there were a few guys here who broke theirs....you will only gain power from the driveshaft as well as reliability. If you plan on doing more modding than just the blower....then get the 8.8 if not, just get gears, t-lok, driveshaft

From what I understand there are a few mods that will provide maximum enjoyment of F/I on our cars but are not absolutelynecessary unless you plan to head straight to the track or if you want to go 300 mph!!! I would say that t-lock or 8.8 takeoff, aluminum drive shaft, lower control arms (possibly uppers as well), and wider tires (especially if you have the stock 16's ) would be a great start.

p.s. There still is room for one more in the x-charger group buy if you change your mind. Good luck though with your choice whatever that is.

I don't know guys....$7500 is a bit much. I mean, I got my 2005 Mustang for $13,500, they raped on interest though, which I got refinancied pretty quickly. But to spend more than half of the cost of my car just on mods....eh. Yeah.

$6000 I was willing to do, but now he wants $7500 and he told me, "The bill keeps piling on as you get more and more mods." I just don't understand why no other place in which I inquired a supercharger, told me that I needed a new driveshaft or 8.8 rear or anything of that sort. Does that mean the place I'm inquiring this supercharger, knows what they are doing or are complete morons?

So, apart from the $6000 supercharger/install/tune, apart from the $270 t-lok, apart from the $580 drivetrain, I have to get a $800 8.8 rear?

Which comes out to $8,300?

I didn't think getting a supercharger was going to be so expensive....I figured it was just the kit and thats it.

ORIGINAL: blackstang14

From what I understand there are a few mods that will provide maximum enjoyment of F/I on our cars but are not absolutelynecessary unless you plan to head straight to the track or if you want to go 300 mph!!! I would say that t-lock or 8.8 takeoff, aluminum drive shaft, lower control arms (possibly uppers as well), and wider tires (especially if you have the stock 16's ) would be a great start.

p.s. There still is room for one more in the x-charger group buy if you change your mind. Good luck though with your choice whatever that is.


Yeah, I'm seriously considering just getting a weaker supercharger. But I know if I do, I just won't be happy with it. My goal was to be as fast or faster than a Mustang GT. But I don't think I'd go with X-Charger. The regular Vortech supercharger dishes out the same HP output but $700 cheaper according to statistics and details.

........what is the japanese word for "damnit"?

How much is he charging your for the driveshaft? Check out Shaftmasters, good quality and I don't think I've seen better priceshttp://www.shaftmasters.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=dea3d1ff0 3bcf1f473fddf06e51667be (http://www.shaftmasters.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=dea3d1ff0 3bcf1f473fddf06e51667be)

With the new driveshaft, think about if you ever plan to lower the car (or if you are already lowered) and thediameter of the new shaft. I have the 4" shaft and it is great, but if I was lowered then I'd be swapping and getting the 3.5" because the bigger diameter can rub on a lowered car.

Sweet, thats about $100 cheaper.

And no, I don't plan on lowering my car. He was charging me $579.

Thanks though :)

You don't *have* to get any of those things with your supercharger. The drive shaft that exploded at 120 mph was the original 05. About half way through the year, they started putting retention clips in the u-joints. I don't think anybody has had theirs come apart with the new version, but I may be wrong. That being said, the drive shaft replacement is not a bad idea. It isn't just about durability. As has been pointed out, the aftermarket drive shafts are much lighter and provide a little better performance. You don't have to get the t-lock either, although it will make it very hard to harness all your power at launch.

Additionally, you can get the supercharger now and do the other mods later. It isn't like it has to all be a package deal.

Although, if you are worried about money then just get in on the x-charger group buy and install it yourself! Of course I say that because we need one more buyer. But I do believe that you will find an x-charged car has more power than a GT.

Wait, in the website it said it installs in one hour with only hand tools?

Why the **** did the guy raise the price from $6000 to $7500 for that? I know the t-lok usually is $500 to install and about $275. But they are installing the supercharger already so it should just be one of those things they can do "while doing the supercharger". Shouldn't be that much extra work. But wtf? For that, I'll let them install the SC and t-lok, then install the driveshaft myself.

Anyone ever install a driveshaft themselves....? [>:]

ORIGINAL: moonstang

You don't *have* to get any of those things with your supercharger. The drive shaft that exploded at 120 mph was the original 05. About half way through the year, they started putting retention clips in the u-joints. I don't think anybody has had theirs come apart with the new version, but I may be wrong. That being said, the drive shaft replacement is not a bad idea. It isn't just about durability. As has been pointed out, the aftermarket drive shafts are much lighter and provide a little better performance. You don't have to get the t-lock either, although it will make it very hard to harness all your power at launch.

Additionally, you can get the supercharger now and do the other mods later. It isn't like it has to all be a package deal.

Although, if you are worried about money then just get in on the x-charger group buy and install it yourself! Of course I say that because we need one more buyer. But I do believe that you will find an x-charged car has more power than a GT.


GT comes with 300 stock HP. Really only making 285 HP after drivetrain loss. The X-Charger only claims 280HP with its H/O system. But it costs $4000-$4200. The S-trim Vortech regular system claims that much but cheaper. Thats why I don't want an X-Charger.

However, to get back to the topic at hand, I could wait to get that stuff later, but I figured it would have been more expensive.

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


And your very wise input is really appreciated in this section. Thank you so much for that.

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


True but atleast we won't have that horrible, tacky paint job.

The GT has about 260 at the wheels, hipo x gives between 270-295. also with the low end power on the dyno curve (see their website) and a lighter vehicle (v6) you will def have a faster than stock GT. If you get in on the group buy, the hipo kit without tuner will be 3695 and you could do the install yourself. That would leave you some extra cash for other mods and you will have the ability to upgrade to an intercooler later if you still want more power.

Finally, yes of course the GT guys are modding their GT's and eventually with enough mods they will be faster than us (As if we need to be reminded of the obvious). We could trade in our 6ers for GT's, but why stop there? I might trade in for Viper or ZO6 and stick a turbo on it and blow you GT guys out of the water. If money were no object that would be a great idea. I think you just have to set your goals and decide what will make you happy. I do not intendto be driving up and down the main strip racing everything that pulls up along side of me. I just want to have fun, feel some torque throw me against the seat and have a sweet ride. All the F/I systems will get you there. If your goal is to beat everything else out there you had better have a good career to earn the money you'll need. Good luck man.

sorry a little late on the reply here.

+1 on the paint job

If $7500 is what its gonna cost me to have the Vortech, then **** that.

I'd rather settle for less HP and get the X-Charger, have a bunch of fun installing the damn thing myself (no sarcasm intended, I love working on my car), then get a t-lok installed and be happy with the extra boost.

I might just go with that 10th spot, for good, no backing out. I'll call that place tomorrow and see what they might be able to do for me. If they can't do anything, I'll be calling Dave back at explorerexpress for that 10th spot and save me $2000-$3500.

ok since im the guy that blew his driveshaft on the dyno after installing my x charger back in 06ill chime in. the 05s and some of the 06's had drive shafts that did not use clips on the u joints . look under your car and if the u-joints have retainer clips you should be fine. i replaced my broken shaft with an 06 updated shaft and have had it dynoed plenty of time and been at the track many times also. i at 282 hp ish and still running fine. mach blew his on the dyno also but ruptured his gas tank . i was lucky and just broke the shaft.

Mav - you've definitely done your research and I'm certainly not going to tell you the vortech is the wrong choice. I think you will probably love it, and if we ever meet up at the track you'll probably whoop me. Here's the advice I do have regarding the add-ons:

The t-lock is definitely worth doing, and opening up the rear diff is not a do-it-yourself job for most guys. It is also a job on the complete opposite end from the supercharger, and so I don't think I would approach it as a package deal. Find out what they are going to charge for installation, and then decide if it's worth it to you. When I looked at it, I wanted 3.73 gears and the t-lock. The parts were close to 500 (with an installation kit) and with labor on top of it, I decided it made more sense to spend $900 to get the rear end and install it myself. It took me about 4 hours with the help of a friend with air tools, so it is still a big job, but it wasn't bad.

Regarding the drive shaft, ask your installer how much to install the drive shaft. Doing a drive shaft really is simple, so they shouldn't charge much for it. You might also look into getting the shaftmaster shaft and having them install it. If he is adding 1500 including parts to install the t-lock and driveshaft, get him to itemize that.

And finally, not to sidetrack the thread, the guy who suggested just getting a GT really does have a point that needs to be considered. You are throwing a lot of money at your car to make it a little bit quicker than a GT, but you sacrifice the warranty. I gave this a lot of consideration and finally decided that it would be a lot cooler to me to have the v6 and do the upgrades myself, but a big part of that was the fact that I was doing it myself. I'd have a cool supercharged v6, and I could say that I did all the mod's (including the supercharger) myself.

Anyway, it sounds like you are thinking everything through, and trying to get a deal that your are happy with, and that's the most important thing. Good luck and we will all be anxious to hear about your progress.

ORIGINAL: Maverickaf17

Wait, in the website it said it installs in one hour with only hand tools?

Why the **** did the guy raise the price from $6000 to $7500 for that? I know the t-lok usually is $500 to install and about $275. But they are installing the supercharger already so it should just be one of those things they can do "while doing the supercharger". Shouldn't be that much extra work. But wtf? For that, I'll let them install the SC and t-lok, then install the driveshaft myself.

Anyone ever install a driveshaft themselves....? [>:]


tacobill is the man when it comes to installing stuff... soo check this link out http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=441678

but more specifically http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=455739or http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=461474

Thanks Moonstang. I really appreciate that post.

The switching to a GT argument makes sense before you bought the V6 if you really wanted to have more power. I looked into trading up before I started this venture and it seemed that I would end up spending more money after taking a loss on my current car and then paying the difference for a used GT. After thinking it over I also thought it would be cool to have a supercharged v6 which I had done most of the work on myself. I also knew I would wind up sinking some money into modding the GT as well. Well I am done blubbering, Mav sounds like you have some great options and a great start, good luck with everything. If you go X charger you will make 9 other guys very happy but get what makes you happy.

ORIGINAL: ODDYSEY

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


And your very wise input is really appreciated in this section. Thank you so much for that.


[drippingwetsarcasm]well considering i didn't even know what "SECTION" i was in, cause i just saw the thread on the "posted today" page, and i didn't know i was gonna HURT someone's feelings by being overly straight-forward and honest... i take it all back.. get that v6 to run 300mph..you can dooo eeeetttt[/blah]

ORIGINAL: CroDalmatinac

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


True but atleast we won't have that horrible, tacky paint job.



grow up.. it's not mine, my friends, and it just happens to be the best paint job i've ever seen.. mine is the red one.. shelby stripes, to ghost flames to a wicked blue.. puulleezz i sense jealousy... [sm=rolleyes.gif]

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

ORIGINAL: CroDalmatinac

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


True but atleast we won't have that horrible, tacky paint job.



grow up.. it's not mine, my friends, and it just happens to be the best paint job i've ever seen.. mine is the red one.. shelby stripes, to ghost flames to a wicked blue.. puulleezz i sense jealousy... [sm=rolleyes.gif]


Jealousy....HAHAHAHAHA. Dude the only people that would be jealous of flames on ANY type of car would be lawn care workers who have the same paint scheme on their El Camino. I wouldn't be caught dead in that and the fact you think anyone would be jealous of that....wow, maybe you need to grow up and realize, it looks like ass. Putting flames on a Mustang....what a shame to a great car.

CroDalmatinac, please leave this thread alone and don't post here anymore unless you plan to post about the topic. You are posting to argueabout something irreleventand I don't want that crap in my thread. Thank you.

ORIGINAL: Maverickaf17

CroDalmatinac, please leave this thread alone and don't post here anymore unless you plan to post about the topic. You are posting to argueabout something irreleventand I don't want that crap in my thread. Thank you.

[sm=bustedsign.gif]

The GT/V6 crap does not need to be here period. We had enough of it before, and we don't need it here again. The issue was about a supercharger, he is using a GT as a guide to the speed/hp he wants to achieve. If he wanted to trade it in for a different car, then he wouldn't have created a supercharger thread.

EDIT: Removed the quote from post that I just yanked - 28HopUp

So, I talked to the guy again about my supercharger. Had him give me a breakdown. It sort of made sense, sort of didn't. He was telling me that most places such as vmptuning uses the tuner kit and then the other stuff they get themselves. He started telling me they were trying to get their own kit together in line with Paxton.

So he goes, "Call me back later today. I'm going to call Paxton and see what we can do for you. You will have a bettersupercharger and more power, andit may be a little more butthe difference in labor would make up for that.I want to try and see if we can get the Paxton on your car. If its not cheaper, we'll stick with Vortech."

I'm like....okay....

Ha why are you paying 6000 for a stock supercharger? I don't get you at all!!![:'(]

ORIGINAL: CroDalmatinac

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

ORIGINAL: CroDalmatinac

ORIGINAL: MeanStang08

i say take your planned mod money, and the v6 & trade it in, and get you a GT.. lol.. cause even when you mod this v6 up, us with GTs are mod'n ours up.. you'll never catch us.. :D


True but atleast we won't have that horrible, tacky paint job.



grow up.. it's not mine, my friends, and it just happens to be the best paint job i've ever seen.. mine is the red one.. shelby stripes, to ghost flames to a wicked blue.. puulleezz i sense jealousy... [sm=rolleyes.gif]


Jealousy....HAHAHAHAHA. Dude the only people that would be jealous of flames on ANY type of car would be lawn care workers who have the same paint scheme on their El Camino. I wouldn't be caught dead in that and the fact you think anyone would be jealous of that....wow, maybe you need to grow up and realize, it looks like ass. Putting flames on a Mustang....what a shame to a great car.



lol. we'll have to agree to disagree then... i'm taking my engineering degree and going home now.. no reason to belittle people..

and my intent was not to make fun nor belittle anyone... it was a serious answer to the GT comparison..

ie.. my point.. don't beef up a v6 just to beat GTs.. you gotta beef it up cause you want to.. period..

ORIGINAL: Black Mamba GTT

Ha why are you paying 6000 for a stock supercharger? I don't get you at all!!![:'(]


For your supercharger its $4000-$4500 forthe stock except with a GT500 H/E and smaller pulleys.

For $6000, I get the stock and tuner and install/dyno.

But like I said, I might be going down with X-Charger due to unexpected costs in the Vortech. Who knows.

Hey Mav,no pressure but group buy ends on the 31st.

ORIGINAL: blackstang14

Hey Mav,no pressure but group buy ends on the 31st.


No pressure, eh? lol

I'm sure I'll make my decision by then. I mean, most likely I'll be going with that X-Charger but ya never know what will happen with the Vortech people, they might lower the price.

sounds good man, hope you get a good deal.
take care.

ORIGINAL: Maverickaf17

ORIGINAL: Black Mamba GTT

Ha why are you paying 6000 for a stock supercharger? I don't get you at all!!![:'(]


For your supercharger its $4000-$4500 forthe stock except with a GT500 H/E and smaller pulleys.

For $6000, I get the stock and tuner and install/dyno.

But like I said, I might be going down with X-Charger due to unexpected costs in the Vortech. Who knows.


Don't forget the stronger head unit and ignition booster. And the H/E isn't from a GT500 it is a new one that is aftermarket for the GT500 that I made work for my system:D

Is it time for Spring Cleaning already??? [8D]

To the OP, a possibility with the X-Charger would be to connect with another member in the Group Buy and install them together. You might also be able to rope in an experienced installer to assist/advise, and make it a party. That's happened before, with awesome results.

Hey - I'm in utah? Who is close that wants to install their x-charger with me?

Okay, here's the deal with the driveshaft:

The stock V6 driveshaft on 2005 and early 2006 cars has a problem. Ford in their infinite "wisdom" decided to save about $0.22 by leaving off the clips that retain the bearing caps for the driveshaft u-joints. The caps are simply staked in with some gouged up metal. At high speeds (115mph+) these caps can, and have, walked out allowing the driveshaft to come apart. In one case, the disintegrating driveshaft tore the gas tank open (fortunately this car was on a dyno at the time, and the fuel did not ignite).

Cars from mid-2006 up have the clips, so Ford obviously recognized an issue (though they've done nothing to correct earlier cars).

If you're going to be doing high speed in the car, a quality aftermarket shaft, or at the very least a swap for a later factory shaft with the clips makes sense. A driveshaft safety loop is also not a terrible idea whatever shaft you're running.

Edit: Posted before I saw that Tom (Afixer) had relied on this.

I'm in new jersey, sorry man.

Yeah...but who down here in South Florida would know...

Does anyone have pics of the two different driveshafts?

This topic has been finalized. The decision has been made.

Thanks.

- Maverick

Yeah, but what was the decision? Did you stick with the vortech? Did they cut you a deal on the paxton (which I thought was Shelby exclusive for the 4.0) or did you decide the join the x-men?

[sm=teetertooter.gif]