Bob just sold me a Vortech V3 kit w/meth injection for a great deal. Just got throught he install yesterday...see my other post. Bob knows his stuff and is great to deal with. Google his name and you'll see what I mean. Can't say enough good.
I have an '89 as well, bone stock except for the V3 I just shoe horned in their and it's a hoot and a half now! As far as fuel mods Vortech included an additional pump that mounts outside the tank, FMU to kick up fuel pressure a bit, still on stock injectors. The whole job took me two full days but I could probably cut that time by 30-40% if I had to do it again. If you live close to Pasadena, MD drop me a line and I'll take you for a ride before you spend your precious $.
fox gt you didnt mention if you did the roots style blower on a fuel injected car or not but how would it even be done on a fuel injected car? I have heard of this but never seen it
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2903
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: pk222 fox gt you didnt mention if you did the roots style blower on a fuel injected car or not but how would it even be done on a fuel injected car? I have heard of this but never seen it
I've done one on an '88 convertable & one for a v6. I helped build a couple others providing the shaft (was a fwd setup), bearings, & brackets... but i didn't build the other kits.
I'm currently working on my 2nd one for a 5.0 if the guy would ever get a wideband. I installed a standalone in his car & while I can get the narrowband o2's to work I can't really get them to where I want them without being able to see lower a/f ratios. Not sure if you've read or not, but narrowband o2's tend to not like the below 14's & above 14's. I'm aiming for around 12.5:1 a/f ratio for under boost conditions & 16.5:1 for cruise, but the narrowband doesn't go that low or high. 14:1 is a little lean imo for a boosted engine & since he's a very good friend of mine that doesn't have much money I'd rather him complain about a $200 wb o2 controller & sensor than cost him quite a bit of money to replace internals. You don't have to do all of this for if you're using a stock computer, like i said his is running a standalone & I can't tell what the a/f ratio's are other than in the 14's... The stock a9 series computers have presets to take the a/f ratio down to 13.5:1 & up to 15.250:1 depending on the load at operating temp in open loop. Running a fmu with a rich ratio for the safe side will ensure you don't kill the engine. If you can take it to a dyno to tune it or have a wideband o2 sensor/controllor with logging, by all means opt for an adjustable fuel pressure regulator instead for more power.
Anyway... The kits are actually pretty simple to build. Fuel requirements are no different for the roots supercharger as they are for a centrifugal. The only difference is you'll have to move your throttle body, make the plumbing, & make the bracket. You can keep any intake manifold you currently have... despite what people think, you don't have to mount positive displacement superchargers on top of the lower intake. You can mount them anywhere you have a belt to drive it & a place to make a bracket work.
The best places imo if you're building the kit yourself is either the drivers side (requires you to move the battery & a/c delete is helpful here) or the passenger side close to the alternator. Both have their upsides.
For the drivers side mount you benefit from not having to run the throttle body linkage extremely far (but that's not much of a problem) & a kind of cleaner look in the engine bay if you choose to run a front mount intercooler for it
Passenger side is probably better if you choose not to run an intercooler due to shorter intake plumbing. (you can still run a fmic with it on this side too. It will make running a butterfly style bypass valve a little more simple & cleaner looking aswell (for alot better fuel economy under cruise conditions)
The longer the intake plumbing the longer the delay in throttle response, but even if you run a fmic & the piping is a little big the delay is still not very bad. You can notice it if you compared the two, but it's hardly noticeable if you're not looking for it.
As for the throttle plate, you do have to run it before the supercharger, reason behind that is from the name... positive displacement supercharger, which means for every time one lobe meshes with the other it WILL move that air whether it means blowing a seal off, smashing in your throttle body or whatever. The other alternative is it will anihalate the belt because it is unable to move the air so the rotors wont spin. You could use a bypass valve, but you'll need luck to find one (or multiple) that can move that volume of air if you slam the throttle shut at 5000rpm . Throttle linkage is easy, just go to a bicycle store & grab some cable they use for their brakes & make an adaptor plate to mount it up to the supercharger.
The bracket is very simple. You can use something as simple as two pieces of thick steel welded together with a few small triangles where they join for added support. I would recommend welding a couple more pieces of steel on it for added stiffness though... the more the better.
For the pulley you can either run an additional pulley on the crankshaft with the sole purpose of driving the supercharger or you can use your existing serpentine. If you use the existing MAKE SURE you get as much of the belt wraped around the s/c pulley as possible. You may have to run a different pulley on the s/c for your desired psi.
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
that explains it a lot better but I am horrible at fabrication so I wont be able to do this without A LOT of help lol. just curious they dont made pre made kits for this style of supercharger do they? I'm pritty sure its just cintrifugal superchargers come in pre made kits right? is there any benefit to the roots style blower?
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2903
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: pk222 that explains it a lot better but I am horrible at fabrication so I wont be able to do this without A LOT of help lol. just curious they dont made pre made kits for this style of supercharger do they? I'm pritty sure its just cintrifugal superchargers come in pre made kits right? is there any benefit to the roots style blower?
Don't got a friend or relative that can weld? There's really not all that much to it if you use the stock case. I ported & modified the cases on the kits I built for a little more efficiency, but you have to be careful when welding the sound slits up, you can warp the case.
I've never seen a kit for sale... The roots give low,mid, & high rpm boost. It's not as efficient on high end as the centrifugal. Personally I would pick roots over any s/c even if it did make less power on high end, they're more fun to drive around. Not sure about everyone else, but I liked punching it at low rpm just for the feel.
I'm a turbo person myself, but i'll give positive displacement superchargers(roots/twin screw) their due. They are definitely alot more fun to drive around than any of my turbo cars or cars i built the kits for. But when it comes down to it I would rather be the faster car in a race. I plan on going with a roots on my '96 when I get around to it, probably going to be a long while though.
I believe kenne bell makes a twin screw kit for the 5.0. They're a little pricey for my taste, but it's an option. They offer all range power aswell (yet again high end is better with a centri). I prefer roots over the twin screw though, even the old designs that weren't up to par two reasons, fuel economy, & the fact that a kit can be built for under $600. If I had my choice I'd go with a 4 lobe roots over twin screw or centrifugal as far as cost, efficiency, & fuel economy go.
< Message edited by FoxGT -- 5/9/2008 1:22:43 AM >
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2903
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: pk222 I have a lot of friends that weld just none that I would trust with anything that expensive lol.
thanks for all the info that really opens up my ideas about what I want to do to my mustang in the long run.
Some aren't that expensive, really depends on gen & size. The one that's coming up is an m90 from a tbird supercoupe. Guy bought it for $100. They're very plentiful aswell.
Quite a few people that have tried telling me about it & don't know too much on the subject try to tell me either one of two things... it wont work because it came off of a v6 & is too small or they try to tell me that it's small & poof is by the 03/04 cobra's that use the m112's. What most fail to realize is the cobra engine also turns a bit higher rpm which an m90 would fall way short of & on top of that the dohc 4.6 engine flows quite a bit better than the 5.0 on mustangs stock for stock n/a. All the same though I wouldn't recommend the m90 for a mustang with H/C/I/exhaust, in that case you may want to go with an m112. You would still get quite a gain, but it's not the best choice in that situation.
I don't weld the sound slits on the housings i work on either. I have the local shop do it & explain to them what's going on. I don't have enough experience to trust myself on something like that.
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
Pat & Amandas Wedding Fund Contributor Posts: 2903
Joined: 7/21/2003 From: United States Status: offline
Not sure what all cars came with the m112. In any case I've never fitted an m112 to a 5.0 in a remote mount setup. You may have to modify the nose of it to get it to fit to either side of the engine to retain the stock hood.
Personally I'd recommend going with the m90 though unless you plan on making over 400hp. The stock case of the 112 isn't all too great stock & really is in bad need of modifying the case. The rotors are fairly long & the inlet port of it is fairly small so the rotor space isn't exposed to the inlet port for nearly long enough to fill completely at higher rpm. If you're going higher than 400hp then I'd say go for it, but definitely do some work on the case, mainly the inlet.
The m90 could use some work aswell though, but it doesn't have the same problem as the m112.
_____________________________
If you have to ask what it takes to get to 500 HP, you don''t have what it takes to get there.
''89 Mustang GT ''86 Mustang vert ''84 Mustang notch turbocharged ''96 Mustan
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RE: supercharger on 89 mustang - 
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