Seeing as how a certain person comes out of nowhere and attacks, based off of my disagreement with someone elses opinion, I figured I would start a thread with my opinion and open it up to have a discussion on what people think. That other person need not apply himself as all his posts do not add any substabce.

Here we go, do you agree, and if not, then why? Discussion, no arguing! We can start on a better foot modularmax and scg87 if you wish. :)


1. I beleive the new "high end" camaro will be close if not at the msrp of the GT500. Notice I said msrp. I just find it hard to believe anything with a ls3 and irs will be cheaper. I could be wrong, but what do you think and why?

2. I do not beleive the Hyundai Genesis platform, coupe or sedan, will be as volatile to the Mustang as some believe. I'm sure it will be nice and fast, just not with the right price or looks. My opinion of course, what do you think?

3. Some people say the Shelby GT is not worth the price. I bought one, didn't pay the full sticker of $45k, but it was still expensive. Yes, I could have bought a GT and modded it to make it faster for less money, but it's a Shelby, it looks and feels great, and it's what I wanted. The prices of this, and the GT500, are based on supply and demand, economincs 101. Some people complain and argue about markup, but as long as people pay... Your thoughts?

I have several more things with vehicles, pertaining to Mustangs since this is a Mustang forum, but we'll start here and see if we get some good discusion. [8D]

- C

ORIGINAL: myredgt

Seeing as how a certain person comes out of nowhere and attacks, based off of my disagreement with someone elses opinion, I figured I would start a thread with my opinion and open it up to have a discussion on what people think. That other person need not apply himself as all his posts do not add any substabce.

Here we go, do you agree, and if not, then why? Discussion, no arguing! We can start on a better foot modularmax and scg87 if you wish. :)


1. I beleive the new "high end" camaro will be close if not at the msrp of the GT500. Notice I said msrp. I just find it hard to believe anything with a ls3 and irs will be cheaper. I could be wrong, but what do you think and why?

2. I do not beleive the Hyundai Genesis platform, coupe or sedan, will be as volatile to the Mustang as some believe. I'm sure it will be nice and fast, just not with the right price or looks. My opinion of course, what do you think?

3. Some people say the Shelby GT is not worth the price. I bought one, didn't pay the full sticker of $45k, but it was still expensive. Yes, I could have bought a GT and modded it to make it faster for less money, but it's a Shelby, it looks and feels great, and it's what I wanted. The prices of this, and the GT500, are based on supply and demand, economincs 101. Some people complain and argue about markup, but as long as people pay... Your thoughts?

I have several more things with vehicles, pertaining to Mustangs since this is a Mustang forum, but we'll start here and see if we get some good discusion. [8D]

- C



1. The high end camaro will be atleast as much as a GT 500. The high end Camaro, I believe will not run a LS3. I'm thinking Chevy will drop in LS7 in the camaro. They will not build an SS if it is 75 odd hp less then Ford's comp. mustang GT500(prev. the cobra). I think both the Camaro and the Challenger will being priced in a different league then the Mustang. So far the Challenger seems like its going to be a ripoff. SRT8 will cost as much as a GT500 and performs slightly better then the GT(heavy!!!) With the new 370hp 5.7L hemi I think the lower model Challenger will cost 5-7k more then a GT and will be only on par with the GT.

2. Hyundai...don't think it will directly compete, Pass.

3. Worth the money if you get it for cost(what the dealer buys it for). It handles much better then a stock GT and will retain its value much better. Plus you have something unique. You can make a reg. GT better then a Shelby GT for the less money but its still just a GT. To each there own.

I'm cool w/ the fresh start deal....;)


Anyways, on topic-

1) I think the LS3 Camaro will come in at 37K or less base price. As for what dealers put on them for markups, that's anyone's guess. W/ 420~ hp, and 400~ tq, I think it's safe to say it will be good for 12.60's. There will most definitely be a higher trim level, and I think they'll put the LS7 in it. W/ the C7 Vette approaching, and either an upgrade to the LS7 or an altogether replacement for it for the Vette, I don't see why they wouldn't. So w/ 485~ hp, and 460~ tq, the car should be good for 11.90's. Whether or not they will use the LS9 or LSA is in the air. I don't see them using the LS9, but the LSA could be a possibility.

2) I personally think the Genesis Coupe will be a hit, and a great car. I personally don't like Hyundai, but they've come a loooooooonnnggg way, and make some good cars now. And w/ a 300~ hp V6 for around 25K, it sounds like a great value. I don't see how the car could not be a high 13 - low 14 sec car. If they decide to use their 4.6 V8 in it, they're gonna be terrorizing some people at stoplights. Even if they just give it 360hp, it'll more than enough to beat S197 GT's, 350Z's and the current Evo and STi. And for less than probably all of them as well.

3) As for the price of the Shelby GT, I guess it depends on what you can get one for. My local dealer had a black 5-sp coupe for 31K, that I was almost tempted to trade my 350Z in on, on the spot. I think that price is justified just by their lower production numbers and better looks. Anything over 35K for one, though, is stupid IMO. There are much better all-around cars to be had for that kinda money. But I guess if you're a diehard Mustang guy, then hey....

ORIGINAL: scg87

I'm cool w/ the fresh start deal....;)


Anyways, on topic-

1) I think the LS3 Camaro will come in at 37K or less base price. As for what dealers put on them for markups, that's anyone's guess. W/ 420~ hp, and 400~ tq, I think it's safe to say it will be good for 12.50's. There will most definitely be a higher trim level, and I think they'll put the LS7 in it. W/ the C7 Vette approaching, and either an upgrade to the LS7 or an altogether replacement for it for the Vette, I don't see why they wouldn't. So w/ 485~ hp, and 460~ tq, the car should be good for 11.90's. Whether or not they will use the LS9 or LSA is in the air. I don't see them using the LS9, but the LSA could be a possibility.

2) I personally think the Genesis Coupe will be a hit, and a great car. I personally don't like Hyundai, but they've come a loooooooonnnggg way, and make some good cars now. And w/ a 300~ hp V6 for around 25K, it sounds like a great value. I don't see how the car could not be a high 13 - low 14 sec car. If they decide to use their 4.6 V8 in it, they're gonna be terrorizing some people at stoplights. Even if they just give it 360hp, it'll more than enough to beat S197 GT's, 350Z's and the current Evo and STi. And for less than probably all of them as well.

3) As for the price of the Shelby GT, I guess it depends on what you can get one for. My local dealer had a black 5-sp coupe for 31K, that I was almost tempted to trade my 350Z in on, on the spot. I think that price is justified just by their lower production numbers and better looks. Anything over 35K for one, though, is stupid IMO. There are much better all-around cars to be had for that kinda money. But I guess if you're a diehard Mustang guy, then hey....


With a 4000lb car your dreaming. The GT500 has 500hp and weights pretty much the same as what the new Camaro will weigh and runs 12.8's usually. The Z06 has 500hp and weighs 3100lbs and runs 11.90's. So ya.

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that GM sent you a memo saying exactly what the car would weigh.:eek:I'll change it to 12.60's, because that what I I meant to put. Maybe that will make you feel better. And the Z06 runs 11.90's w/ a terrible ass driver behind the wheel....

Actually, no engine has been confirmed for the Camaro, and the 5.0 is still up in the air but will most likely see light in the next gen Mustang. The mustang however, is supposed to see, "substantial" weight loss but I doubt it, Hopeful numbers of 3400lb's has been thrown around but I doubt to see it in this next gen mustang. However, if it doesnt lose any weight it will still be about 150lbs lighter than the estimated curb weight of the 5th gen camaro (aprox.3725 lbs). I can not speak for the top model Camaro, but the base v8 will probably have similar HP figures as the G8 for the sole reason to cut costs, and make the manufacturing process easier. As for the Genesis, why would anyone buy a v8 from a foreign competitor, thats actually where American manufacturers shine.

ORIGINAL: scg87

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that GM sent you a memo saying exactly what the car would weigh.:eek:I'll change it to 12.60's, because that what I I meant to put. Maybe that will make you feel better. And the Z06 runs 11.90's w/ a terrible ass driver behind the wheel....


Well lets just put it this way, the Camaro is built on the same chassis and is approx. the same size and weight as the new G8 which easily passes the 4k mark. You have to realize that the new Camaro/Challenger are bigger cars then the Mustang. The Camaro is going to be 10in longer and wide as hell. GM is not going to throw money into taking weight off the G8 platform,that would hurt the price point to much. The Charger and the Camaro are almost identical in size and the Challenger weighs in at 4150lbs. The Z06 has ran better then 11.9's but that is a great time for any driver.How coulda 500hp Camaro run the 1/4ONE FULL second fasterthen a 500hp Mustang? It can'tunless the Camaro weighs atleast 600lbs less and we know that will not be the case. I win. ;)

I'm curious of your claims about size, because yes, It is a wide car, but the new camaro spy pics really do it justice in proving how small this thing will be. I think GM learned their lesson, it will still be heavier than the current mustang but by maybe only 100-125 lb's no way in heck its going to way in as much as the G8 for the pure fact that the G8 is a sedan, it has 2 more doors, it IS longer, full sized seats in the back, and has been only tested with a sunroof on sights like insideline.com. I think everyone wins in this upcoming muscle wars...except for mopar lol...they get a bag of bricks and ford and GM will have some play time:)

ORIGINAL: kyle2k

I'm curious of your claims about size, because yes, It is a wide car, but the new camaro spy pics really do it justice in proving how small this thing will be. I think GM learned their lesson, it will still be heavier than the current mustang but by maybe only 100-125 lb's no way in heck its going to way in as much as the G8 for the pure fact that the G8 is a sedan, it has 2 more doors, it IS longer, full sized seats in the back, and has been only tested with a sunroof on sights like insideline.com. I think everyone wins in this upcoming muscle wars...except for mopar lol...they get a bag of bricks and ford and GM will have some play time:)


I'veseen multiple sources state that it will be just under 200in long. As far as the weight of a coupe versus sedan, thats what I thought before the new Challenger weighed in at 4150 just 10 pounds less the the 4 door charger. Problem is once you lose that B-pillar the chassis loses rigidity and more weight has to be added back to compinsate. Look at the Mustangs weight versus the Lincoln LS which it share its platform with, pretty much the same.

I don't know dude, take a look at these pic's and others on this site. It looks short to me...[&:]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2830

ORIGINAL: 83gtragtop

ORIGINAL: scg87

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that GM sent you a memo saying exactly what the car would weigh.:eek:I'll change it to 12.60's, because that what I I meant to put. Maybe that will make you feel better. And the Z06 runs 11.90's w/ a terrible ass driver behind the wheel....


Well lets just put it this way, the Camaro is built on the same chassis and is approx. the same size and weight as the new G8 which easily passes the 4k mark. You have to realize that the new Camaro/Challenger are bigger cars then the Mustang. The Camaro is going to be 10in longer and wide as hell. GM is not going to throw money into taking weight off the G8 platform,that would hurt the price point to much. The Charger and the Camaro are almost identical in size and the Challenger weighs in at 4150lbs. The Z06 has ran better then 11.9's but that is a great time for any driver.How coulda 500hp Camaro run the 1/4ONE FULL second fasterthen a 500hp Mustang? It can'tunless the Camaro weighs atleast 600lbs less and we know that will not be the case. I win. ;)




You win based on speculation???? Wow, I hope you're not in the law field.....:eek:

Interesting on all sides, and I am just curious as to what the actual numbers will be when all these cars come out. Only time will tell I suppose, anyone else?:)

- C

1. Personally, I think it's too early to speculate pricing for the Camaro. I don't really care because I don't ever plan on purchasing one...but no doubt that if/when they do arrive on dealer lots, it'll be marked up out the wazoo. Much like the '05 Mustangs were.

2. Even if the Genesis is gonna be some 300 horsepower monster, it's still a friggin' Hyundai. Barely a threat to something like the Mustang or Camaro. :)

3. To each their own indeed. Some people would even say the extra $15K-$20K for a Saleen or Roush is "wasteful." But you're not just paying for the parts...yes, you could take a GT, throw comparable parts onto it, and still come out cheaper than one of the tuner cars. But you're also paying for the labor it took to build that car, the name, etc. You've got a faster car right out of the box, no work on your part other than opening your checkbook.

1. I dont think any information can be said about the camaro in till it comes out. like someone said earlier you can speculate all you want but you just dont know. They can say this and that about it or have so called spy pics taken but they can change it just like that too. They needed to redo the camaros at the same time ford did the mustangs now they are way behind, thats all I know. I did see a concept at the Cincinnati car expo and it looked longer the the mustangs for sure but that whole car was FAKE [:@]they had no interiot, well it was covered up by carpet up the the head rest, and the rims on it where these fake ass hub caps....I doubt it was even a drivable car.

2. I HATE FORIGN CARS AND DONT CARE!!!!!

3. I personal like taking my GT and adding parts I get to get my hands dirt and learn my cars insides and outs. But would I buy a shelby or roush or seleen............HELL yea I would :)No doubt, now only if I had the money :eek:

my bad kyle2 on the last thread on this i was refering to the wrong person i put ur name on accident my bad lol

1. I have seen the new camaro in person at a car show and it looks really heavy....they used a lot of metal and plastic to put that thingy together...I'm sure they will come out with different models and the prices will range just like a mustang (v6,v8,ss,z28).im sure they will have one with the new z06 engine in it and it will be in the high 60's-mid 70's...

2. 300hp/80ftlbs on a dyno jet :D

3. its alll about your taste...obviously people are going to say oh thats too much blah blah blah it all depends on what you like...

I heard/read the new Challenger was going to be sitting around $41K base w/ the 6.1 Hemi?!?!

Don't shoot the messenger, just what I heard and read on Dodges site.

Yeah Dodge isn't going to get anyone except Mopar addicts and people only concerned with asthetics...the performance numbers aren't so hot.

1) The base camaro will be a bit more expensive than the mustang, but not by much. The mustang GT has gone up in price too, it's not the "affordable" 25k car it was at launch. If the camaro is to expensive people will still flock to the mustang.

2) Look at those horse power figures dim whitted ricers... please do... You are NOT going to beat a mustang in the quarter if you don't have equivilant torque to haul ass...

3) The Shelby GT is not worth the price imho... It's markup heaven. You could install the mods on a regular GT and be done with it. The only shelby that I would consider (briefly) to pay the markup for is the GT500...

I'm just wondering why Ford hasn't gone with a DOHC for the Mustang yet?? Now I'm not too sure about all this but I see foreign cars with DOHC such as the 350z and they have 300hp. Am I just missing something about why Ford or any other American car go with a DOHC. The only one I really remember being DOHC is the Cobra's but why not put these on all engines? I've heard they are more efficient and produce more hp. Someone who knows more about this please chime in but that has been my question.

josephspann
I'm just wondering why Ford hasn't gone with a DOHC for the Mustang yet?? Now I'm not too sure about all this but I see foreign cars with DOHC such as the 350z and they have 300hp. Am I just missing something about why Ford or any other American car go with a DOHC. The only one I really remember being DOHC is the Cobra's but why not put these on all engines? I've heard they are more efficient and produce more hp. Someone who knows more about this please chime in but that has been my question.


Very simple, price.