ORIGINAL: rwh1 remember the gt 500 has a S/C on it. itr seems to me g.m always kicks ass in the hp dept. here we have mustangs with a little old 4.6 while gm and mopar come along with 5.7s and 6.0s and 6.1s and bigger. fuc@in ford has to use a S/C to get 500hp WTF? c,mon fomoco get with the fuc#in program. i love my stang but im not lookin forward to gettin my ass whipped by a camaro or a 4 fuc#ing door pontiac!!!! just my 2cents. Interesting article for you all. Looks like Shelby GT500 will still win.
Posts: 95
Joined: 10/4/2007 From: Greenville, South Carolina Status: offline
The Mustang GT's sales sucess has always depended on it's affordable sticker price, pure and simple. I know everybody always b*tched in the 90's that the Mustang GT only had 220 hp VS the 325 + of GM's F-bodies. Yet the Mustang out sold both of those models put together by a rate of about 3 to 1. Yeah sure, the majority of Mustangs sold were V-6 base models. But the f-bodies were also available in V-6 versions as well. I think we all know how that story ended.
The Challenger SRT-8, and most likely the high end Camaro, are almost sure to sticker somewhere shy of $40,000. If Ford went the route of Dodge & Chevy, and put a big expensive motor in the 'Stang, then sticker price would shoot up to about the same mark. Who wants to pay $40,000 for a Mustang GT? I know I don't. That's what the GT 500 is for. (too bad the dealers have to mark them up so much)
Anybody who finds themselves in the position of not wanting to get their doors blown off by a Pontiac or a Chevy needs only to stop crying about it and start modding! I never understood why people complain that the only way to get big horsepower out of a Mustang is to supercharge it. So what? As far as I am concerned 500 horsepower is 500 horsepower. Why does it matter so much if you use a 6.2 L n/a V-8 or a blown 4.6/5.4? Especially when you consider that you might pay $40,000 for the other guys, VS maybe $32,000 for the cost of the Mustang & a supercharger.
So, let's get the make-believe motors running and head out onto the hypothetical highway. Is the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro too advance for '09? Dodge? ____________________________________________________ My fresh installs: buick regal & buick regal air filter
All this argueing is quite funny to read .. but do you guys seriously think ford isnt going to come up with something to compete with the new cars coming out ???!! I mean for the past couple years the Mustang hasnt had much competition ... and im sure that Ford doesnt want to fall behind ... they never have ... I doubt they will now ... now if im wrong then that just sux ... but im pretty confident they will .... and another question ... some of you guys really talk about mustangs like u dont even like them .... then why be on here? And this is completely my opinion.. but i think the mustang still looks nicer than the new camaro and challenger ... but thats just me ...
How has Ford not had competition the last few years??? 350Z, G35, WRX, STi, Evo, GTO, etc, etc. Ford is almost playing catch up. The Mustang has almost always been slower than the F-Body. Why would that change??? Ford sells plenty of cars based on that badge alone that they don't need to concern themselves w/ the power war going on around them....
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Street/Strip Section 'OfficialcallerouterofBS'
I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
well the only car out the list u put out that i see as competition for the mustang is the GTO ..and to me it looked more like a family sedan than anything else ... the 350z ... g35 ... and all those others in my opinion i dont see them on the same level as american "muscle" cars ... but im not here to argue i was just stating my opinion ... and thats that ... and i do agree Ford does sell plenty of cars just based on the badge .. but not everyone does so because of that .. so im sure they are concerned about upgrading the mustangs engine .... and thats all i have to say ...
Here are the reasons why the Camaro will fail...(when I say fail I mean in the long run, there will be plenty of guys named Steve to gobble up the first six months of camaros)
1. Weight, car is based of a G8 which weighs in at 4100lbs+. Can't see them being able to cut more then 100 or so pounds. In example compare the weight of the Challenger to the Charger and the Mustang to the Lincoln LS.
2. They do not have a car to set up to steal sales from the GT. Everyone here is discussing the pricing of the LS3 model. Well it seems that the general opinion is that it will be priced in the 30k range. So what model will that be? Z28...SS. Well there is no way that GM is going to let the SS come up short of the GT500. So its going to probably be the Z28 that comes with an LS3. Therefore the base V8 motor Camaro will be priced in the 30's while a GT can be had for as little as 23k before tax and etc. As GM has already announced they are not going to be directly targeting the Mustang. They have said that they will be targeting a higher price point. In my opinion that is a mistake because this car originally is aimed at making hp for cheap (ie the current GT) and with the Camaro, you will have to pay almost 40k out the door to get the HP. Thats a mistake and most of the people who love Camaro's and want to buy one will not be able to afford one.
3. The front end of the car is *ss ugly. Looks like a joke. Very typical GM. Looks like Mr. Ginch smiling(autoweek should do a bodydouble of this). Reminds me of a SSR or an HHR, at first you see it and you think, wow thats bold, looks pretty good. But when it comes down to it, I wouldn't want to be seen driving that thing day after day. People would assume I had a small extremity and had to make up for it.
Also some people on this thread seem to think that GM will not put a more powerful motor then the LS3 in the Camaro. Believe me, there is no way that they are going to show up five years late to the party without a car with atleast as much HP as the GT500. It may be the LS7 or the LS9 or something else, but GM will build an SS that will directly rival or exceed the GT500's 500 horse. Especially since it will probably be priced well over the GT500.
Brian
< Message edited by 83gtragtop -- 4/23/2008 1:06:48 AM >
When I first saw the Camaro concept I wasn't really sure about the styling but after these last couple of weeks of seeing new Camaro videos has made me realize how awesome this car is. Now the weight of the car is a different story, I'm definitely worried about that. But with every major redesign they unfortuneately get heavier and heavier by a few hundred pounds for new safety regulations crap. But don't think this is only limited to the Camaro. Believe when the mustang gets redone in what 2010 it'll gain weight just like every other car. Whats a mustang weigh now 3,500 lbs, it wouldn't surprise me to see that around 3,650 - 3,700 lbs in 2010. Now its been true for a while that the Camaro always costs more than its rivaled optioned mustang ala gt vs Z28, 02 cobra vs SS. You have to think of it as an investment. I've had my 00 SS convt. for a little over 2 yrs. Unfortuneatly its stock(except for a magnaflow exhaust), because right after I bought it they were putting the new Camaro into production and I'll probably get a new Camaro SS convt or a Corvette still undecided. But the level of enjoyment I get by my 8 year old 80,000 mile Camaro SS conv smoking brand new gts is priceless!!
But the level of enjoyment I get by my 8 year old 80,000 mile Camaro SS conv smoking brand new gts is priceless!!
so your beating guys that just bought their car and have no idea how to drive it?...............do you also enjoy beating up on handicapped children? LOL
while my s197 might lose to your car, your still driving an 8 yr old f body. you can shove a badass small block V8 in a 1980 Chevy Monza, it doesn't make it a nice cruising car.....especially in the "style and profile" department. there is more to a car than how fast it is.
If one has confidence and true enjoyment out of there ride, there is little to no reason to bash other cars in my eyes. You like a car, buy it and drive it.....don't like it? dont buy it. People like cars you dont like? who the f^&k cares? I mean honestly here
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07 Black GT, Red Interior. Manual Boomtubes, 3.73 gears, Saleen Suspension, Saleen Watts Link, JDM/Saleen CAI, 89 Octane tune Answers to the name "Rachel" :-)
When I first saw the Camaro concept I wasn't really sure about the styling but after these last couple of weeks of seeing new Camaro videos has made me realize how awesome this car is. Now the weight of the car is a different story, I'm definitely worried about that. But with every major redesign they unfortuneately get heavier and heavier by a few hundred pounds for new safety regulations crap. But don't think this is only limited to the Camaro. Believe when the mustang gets redone in what 2010 it'll gain weight just like every other car. Whats a mustang weigh now 3,500 lbs, it wouldn't surprise me to see that around 3,650 - 3,700 lbs in 2010. Now its been true for a while that the Camaro always costs more than its rivaled optioned mustang ala gt vs Z28, 02 cobra vs SS. You have to think of it as an investment. I've had my 00 SS convt. for a little over 2 yrs. Unfortuneatly its stock(except for a magnaflow exhaust), because right after I bought it they were putting the new Camaro into production and I'll probably get a new Camaro SS convt or a Corvette still undecided. But the level of enjoyment I get by my 8 year old 80,000 mile Camaro SS conv smoking brand new gts is priceless!!
Doubtful. The car is going to be extremely similar to the current car. Most I could see it gaining in weight is maybe 50lbs. Ford has already announced that they will invest alot of time and money on weight reduction with the next generation Mustang, as CAFE's 2020 35mpg standards are nearing.
Here are the reasons why the Camaro will fail...(when I say fail I mean in the long run, there will be plenty of guys named Steve to gobble up the first six months of camaros)
1. Weight, car is based of a G8 which weighs in at 4100lbs+. Can't see them being able to cut more then 100 or so pounds. In example compare the weight of the Challenger to the Charger and the Mustang to the Lincoln LS.
2. They do not have a car to set up to steal sales from the GT. Everyone here is discussing the pricing of the LS3 model. Well it seems that the general opinion is that it will be priced in the 30k range. So what model will that be? Z28...SS. Well there is no way that GM is going to let the SS come up short of the GT500. So its going to probably be the Z28 that comes with an LS3. Therefore the base V8 motor Camaro will be priced in the 30's while a GT can be had for as little as 23k before tax and etc. As GM has already announced they are not going to be directly targeting the Mustang. They have said that they will be targeting a higher price point. In my opinion that is a mistake because this car originally is aimed at making hp for cheap (ie the current GT) and with the Camaro, you will have to pay almost 40k out the door to get the HP. Thats a mistake and most of the people who love Camaro's and want to buy one will not be able to afford one.
3. The front end of the car is *ss ugly. Looks like a joke. Very typical GM. Looks like Mr. Ginch smiling(autoweek should do a bodydouble of this). Reminds me of a SSR or an HHR, at first you see it and you think, wow thats bold, looks pretty good. But when it comes down to it, I wouldn't want to be seen driving that thing day after day. People would assume I had a small extremity and had to make up for it.
Also some people on this thread seem to think that GM will not put a more powerful motor then the LS3 in the Camaro. Believe me, there is no way that they are going to show up five years late to the party without a car with atleast as much HP as the GT500. It may be the LS7 or the LS9 or something else, but GM will build an SS that will directly rival or exceed the GT500's 500 horse. Especially since it will probably be priced well over the GT500.
Brian
I don't know what you're calling me out for. I don't even like the new Camaro much. I'm just not a Mustang nutswinger who bashes anything lacking that Blue Oval badge....
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Street/Strip Section 'OfficialcallerouterofBS'
I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
well the only car out the list u put out that i see as competition for the mustang is the GTO ..and to me it looked more like a family sedan than anything else ... the 350z ... g35 ... and all those others in my opinion i dont see them on the same level as american "muscle" cars ... but im not here to argue i was just stating my opinion ... and thats that ... and i do agree Ford does sell plenty of cars just based on the badge .. but not everyone does so because of that .. so im sure they are concerned about upgrading the mustangs engine .... and thats all i have to say ...
How is the 350Z and others "not on the same level" as the Mustang???? And the Mustang is not a muscle car, it's a pony car. THE pony car. And I'm not arguing w/ you or anything, just discussing....
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Street/Strip Section 'OfficialcallerouterofBS'
I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
But the level of enjoyment I get by my 8 year old 80,000 mile Camaro SS conv smoking brand new gts is priceless!!
You get your rocks off by smoking a mid-level Mustang with a top end Camaro? Doesn't take much does it?
- C
that argument is retarded. You do know that there is no differance in a base Z/28 and SS right? both have the same HP/tranny/motor....so it doesnt matter as long as its a LS1....
Well I was just making fun of the troll-like comment, but if you wish to join his parade....
quote:
You do know that there is no differ-a-nce in a base Z/28 and SS right? both have the same HP/tranny/motor
Wow, lack of knowledge about a Camaro, from a Camaro owner. Their IS a differ-e-nce between a z/28 and a SS. The SS has more bells and whistles and more of a body kit, which means it weighs a little more. The engine and trasmission and such are the same, but if you take a z/28 and SS stock, the z/28 is usually a little faster. Same principal as the LX Mustang.
No diffrenence....
quote:
....so it doesnt matter as long as its a LS1....
Yes, put a LS1 in a dump truck and it will hit low 13's in the quarter.
I was pointing out the troll statement in the earlier guys post, and now there's yours. I do think the Camaro will be fast and a nice car, but I am also on the bandwagon that thinks either the price will not be as low as it needs to be, or the car will have a lower price, as well with lower quality than everyone wants.
Go figure, but I'm done here.
- C
ps. Just picking on you with the spelling, Lord knows I make mistakes as well.
I was just saying how racing a SS is the same as racing a Z28 WS6 T/A etc....There is really no differance in performance besides weight. That was all I was trying to say. And yes put a LS1 ina dump truck it will run consistant 11's.....
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RE: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8 - 
