There's a few things everyone needs to start getting themselves used to.
1.) It's highly unlikely the LS9 or LS7 will ever see Camaro duty. All the fanboys wanna see it, but the changing climate in the autoindustry and all the upcoming new regs just don't make it a smart idea. GM has the Vette to do all its nasty performance wet dreams with.......the Camaro is the beancounters' performance car. GM has already said that the new Camaro will be "affordable"......not a "fire breather". That doesn't sound like words describing a car thats about to have a 15K+ dollar motor dropped into it....does it?
2.) The LS3 Camaro (which will likely remain the top engine option for the foreseeable future) will likely MSRP in the mid to upper 30's........and you won't drive one home for the first two years for less than the cost of a base model Vette. That's just capitalism at work there ppl. There are just as many guys (with money) who cream all over GM's newest muscle offerings as there are who cream all over anything with Shelby's name on it.
3.) Ford is not letting the top model Mustang(GT500/Cobra) stagnate or de-evolve........price be damned. There's already a disguised 2010 styled mule car running around with a Cobra emblem vaguely visable under the padding. Then you take into account that much of Ford's newest generation of motors will be coming online in the 09/'10 timeframe. I don't see them sticking a measely 400ish hp motor into the next Cobra. That'd be like GM putting a 350ish hp motor into its next Camaro SS model. You don't go backwards........no matter what. The technology is available, you use it.
Everyone outside the Ford sidelines seems to believe the Mustang will be cannon fodder to the next lineup of pony cars. I don't see why that will necessarily be. The SRT8 Challenger seems to be putting up numbers that are in current Mustang GT territory..........ummmm, ok. Unless there's an SRT10 Challenger.....I won't be the one bragging about the second coming of Mopar's pony darling. But it's easily the sexiest of the new offerings, and that will be more than enough for most buyers.
Will the next Cobra/GT500 cost more than the top dog Camaro or Challenger (MSRP wise)?...........probably. The LS3 Camaro and SRT8 Challenger can be sized up for cost fairly well at the moment. But not much has yet to be revealed about the upcoming Mustang. If Ford plans to keep the new halo Stang above the cut, it will require either one of its upcoming big juice OHC's, or another forced induction setup.......both of which will make it more expensive. Either way, what does it matter? Just as with the top tier Camaro and Challenger....there will be ppl out there that will gladly pay whatever it takes (and then some) to drive one home. None of these next gen firebreathers will end up in a redtag sale.
< Message edited by ThisBlood147 -- 3/2/2008 9:54:02 PM >
umm Dear Kyle2k i got an issue of motortrend a few months ago not 2 YEARS. The honda genises (coupe) is claiming 5.9 0-60, with only 280 pounds of torque. WITH a weight of 3500+ pounds you have to be a complete dumbass to think it will out perform an 05+ mustang. Jesus....I was on your side till that ridiculously stupid comment. take a dam pill, will you...jeeezzzzz just get along.....as the beatles say...Let it be...Let it be.....lol...You sound like this dude that was tellin me mustangs can run better than 14 sec stock 05 and up,, on youtube. As he continued to tell me i am clueless while i calmy explained to him they run mid to high 13s and 14s with a bad driver
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2005 mustang GT Mineral grey. Auto, w/ pypes muffler delete race pipes. BamaChips SCT tune 13.6@100mph Stock 2.0 60ft Stock and with tune 13.3 @103mph with BamaChips Performance tune
umm Dear Kyle2k i got an issue of motortrend a few months ago not 2 YEARS. The honda genises (coupe) is claiming 5.9 0-60, with only 280 pounds of torque. WITH a weight of 3500+ pounds you have to be a complete dumbass to think it will out perform an 05+ mustang. Jesus....I was on your side till that ridiculously stupid comment. take a dam pill, will you...jeeezzzzz just get along.....as the beatles say...Let it be...Let it be.....lol...You sound like this dude that was tellin me mustangs can run better than 14 sec stock 05 and up,, on youtube. As he continued to tell me i am clueless while i calmy explained to him they run mid to high 13s and 14s with a bad driver
That wasn't kyle, it was actually modularmax, but we started a new thread and everything is fine now, check it out:
Well it won't let me link. The thread is in this section named "do you agree"
- C
< Message edited by myredgt -- 3/8/2008 10:12:17 PM >
I hope the new Camaro gets the LS3, it will be bye-bye mr. slowstang. At MTI they dynoed a stock LS3 vette and it was pushing 401hp to the ground. To "ThisBlood147" the chances of an LS7 camaro or at least a supercharged LS3 seem very high. Well actually the LS9 is basically a LS3 with a supercharger. Ed Wellburn acually did an interview where he confirmed an SS model. With the gt500 as a target I believe theres a good chance of an LS7 or S/C LS3. SS - (old meaning) Super Sport - SS - (new meaning) Shelbys Smoked.
oh great, hear come the loons smack talking about a car that doesnt exist yet.
the LS9 is a bit more than an LS3 with a supercharger. lots of things had to be done to the engine to make it work, and make it reliable.
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07 Black GT, Red Interior. Manual Boomtubes, 3.73 gears, Saleen Suspension, Saleen Watts Link, JDM/Saleen CAI, 89 Octane tune Answers to the name "Rachel" :-)
oh, and P.S. anyone notice the release date for the Camaro sneaks back year by year. the car was 2 years away 2 years ago...LOL. Chevy already has a performance car, I'll give it even money that if GM's woes persist, the Camaro might never be. you heard it here first kids
for pricing, the Camaro with the LS3 will START in the high 30's (I'd sh*t myself it if it started less than 36500) . any lower and it will take away too many sales from the base Vette.
< Message edited by ohskigod -- 3/12/2008 9:42:54 AM >
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07 Black GT, Red Interior. Manual Boomtubes, 3.73 gears, Saleen Suspension, Saleen Watts Link, JDM/Saleen CAI, 89 Octane tune Answers to the name "Rachel" :-)
I hope the new Camaro gets the LS3, it will be bye-bye mr. slowstang. At MTI they dynoed a stock LS3 vette and it was pushing 401hp to the ground. To "ThisBlood147" the chances of an LS7 camaro or at least a supercharged LS3 seem very high. Well actually the LS9 is basically a LS3 with a supercharger. Ed Wellburn acually did an interview where he confirmed an SS model. With the gt500 as a target I believe theres a good chance of an LS7 or S/C LS3. SS - (old meaning) Super Sport - SS - (new meaning) Shelbys Smoked.
Great, then why don't you go put your name on a list for this new LS7 Camaro at the local Chevy dealership? Go ahead. I'm curious what kind of looks the salesmen will give you when you ask about it.
My doubts about anything bigger than the LS3 seeing 5th gen duty are based on all the info I've read on the net and in press releases. Yes, there will be an SS trim Camaro. No one here ever said there wouldn't. But holding your breath for a big balls LS7 or LS9 Camaro sounds like a setup for disappointment at this point. Lest we forget, the Camaro just barely made it past the axe when Lutz put the brakes on GM's new RWD lineup a year or two ago. Don't go thinking the beancounters are all ready to let the horses run free in the engine department. As I said, this will be GM's bargain performance car. An LS7 or LS9 based Camaro would easily price at or (more likely) above that of a base model Vette. How many of you see that being allowed to happen? I don't.
Personally, I really don't care much whether it happens or not. I'm just tired of all the GM leghumpers barking about the upcoming 600hp LS7 Camaro that they'll be buying for the price of a full optioned Mustang GT so they can smoke every Mustang to ever hit the road.....blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm just providing a dose of reality. Its my educated prediction.........not something I'm trying to pass off as fact. If you do get your LS7 Camaro, I wish you all the best. I'm sure a second morgage will put that puppy in your garage no sweat.
Besides...with all the bolt-on LS1 and even LT1 Camaro owners that are claiming to put buslengths on pullied GT500's........one does have to wonder why so many GM fanboys think they NEED a 500+hp 5th gen to "smoke a Shelby".
I'm a fan of all musclecars.First Ford should have never dropped the Terminator Motors.WTF!Plenty of power on the cheap,Relatively that is.GM is in a world of **** right now,My father has worked for them for 30+ years and they finally offered to buy him out.IF the Camaro makes a comeback,It will be too little too late.One thing that I have always favored about Mopar is they usually build the concept cars that cause the most buzz.Their biggest problem is that most of their products are crap!Trust me i rebuild transmissions for a living and Chrysler wins by default as my biggest supporter.Ford Tauruses actually are more prevalant,But that is because they sold a bunch of them.If you look at it on a percentage basis,Chrysler products win!So good luck with your new Challenger and its really crappy Mercedes transmission among other things.But,At least they had the nutz to bring the Challenger to market.GM will probably never build the Camaro,Fact not fiction.Ford has a whole bunch of kick ass engines it COULD put in the Mustang but will they?BTW,315 N/A Horsepower is pretty good for 281 cubic inches!As far as the new Camaro is concerned,I bought an 07 6 speed Vette LS2(Obviously) at GMS price of $40,251 before taxes.That my friends is bang for the buck,Good luck on buying a better performing Camaro for less then that!Long live the king!Who is it by the way,Cause it sure as hell ain't George Bush!
I love how people just claim all these stats like it's a fact, when it's mere speculation.....
My post was speculation from jumpstreet. I thought that was inferred but as I reread the post, I can see how some might not think so, so I will begrudgingly fall on the sword and clarify. My high 30's figure is based on pure logic and some experience in the auto industry in my younger days.
simply put, GM would be slitting an artery of the vette (good seller, good profit margin, benchmark/image car) if it put an LS3 Camaro on the street for high 20's, so I think we can ALL agree thats out!
low 30's, as I said, I would be stunned if it hapenned (is in the realm of possibility though), hence my figure of high 30's (lowest being 36500). in my OPINION , it sure as sh*t wont MSRP for less. now can a dealer cut it off the lot for less? sure, lord knows cars sell for less than sticker, but the Camaro is going to sell, so I think its going to be a mark up car.
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07 Black GT, Red Interior. Manual Boomtubes, 3.73 gears, Saleen Suspension, Saleen Watts Link, JDM/Saleen CAI, 89 Octane tune Answers to the name "Rachel" :-)
I'm a fan of all musclecars.First Ford should have never dropped the Terminator Motors.WTF!Plenty of power on the cheap,Relatively that is.GM is in a world of **** right now,My father has worked for them for 30+ years and they finally offered to buy him out.IF the Camaro makes a comeback,It will be too little too late.One thing that I have always favored about Mopar is they usually build the concept cars that cause the most buzz.Their biggest problem is that most of their products are crap!Trust me i rebuild transmissions for a living and Chrysler wins by default as my biggest supporter.Ford Tauruses actually are more prevalant,But that is because they sold a bunch of them.If you look at it on a percentage basis,Chrysler products win!So good luck with your new Challenger and its really crappy Mercedes transmission among other things.But,At least they had the nutz to bring the Challenger to market.GM will probably never build the Camaro,Fact not fiction.Ford has a whole bunch of kick ass engines it COULD put in the Mustang but will they?BTW,315 N/A Horsepower is pretty good for 281 cubic inches!As far as the new Camaro is concerned,I bought an 07 6 speed Vette LS2(Obviously) at GMS price of $40,251 before taxes.That my friends is bang for the buck,Good luck on buying a better performing Camaro for less then that!Long live the king!Who is it by the way,Cause it sure as hell ain't George Bush!
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: QatarStang
You know I''ve always had a boner for your car, Joo.
gotta love the Billy Madison references when you can use them!!
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07 Black GT, Red Interior. Manual Boomtubes, 3.73 gears, Saleen Suspension, Saleen Watts Link, JDM/Saleen CAI, 89 Octane tune Answers to the name "Rachel" :-)
I have been considering getting a c6 and supercharging it. I know with how light the vette is this would probably put a huge smile on my face. But I keep seeing the new Camaro in pictures and its still peeking my interest after all these years. I'm going to wait and see what the SS convertible looks like and weighs, all these pony cars are getting to heavy. Please believe that the mustangs weight will be going up to deal with new safety regulations crap. Its ironic that pony cars could be getting pretty good gas mileage if they didn't weigh as much as a boat because new safety regulations every couple years. But I think the vette will always be around. V8's in Camaro's, challengers, and mustangs are on there way out thanks to "greenies". Hopefully GM lets the V8 Camaro go out with a bang, they have a couple years till the axe drops on us people who believe that the V8 engine noise could be compared to a syphony. I think GM is thinking the same thing and will put some monster V8 in the Camaro. And if they do I'll be first in line to get an SS conv with 500+hp. Who cares about the cost its priceless because its another end of an era.
I'm a fan of all musclecars.First Ford should have never dropped the Terminator Motors.WTF!Plenty of power on the cheap,Relatively that is.GM is in a world of **** right now,My father has worked for them for 30+ years and they finally offered to buy him out.IF the Camaro makes a comeback,It will be too little too late.One thing that I have always favored about Mopar is they usually build the concept cars that cause the most buzz.Their biggest problem is that most of their products are crap!Trust me i rebuild transmissions for a living and Chrysler wins by default as my biggest supporter.Ford Tauruses actually are more prevalant,But that is because they sold a bunch of them.If you look at it on a percentage basis,Chrysler products win!So good luck with your new Challenger and its really crappy Mercedes transmission among other things.But,At least they had the nutz to bring the Challenger to market.GM will probably never build the Camaro,Fact not fiction.Ford has a whole bunch of kick ass engines it COULD put in the Mustang but will they?BTW,315 N/A Horsepower is pretty good for 281 cubic inches!As far as the new Camaro is concerned,I bought an 07 6 speed Vette LS2(Obviously) at GMS price of $40,251 before taxes.That my friends is bang for the buck,Good luck on buying a better performing Camaro for less then that!Long live the king!Who is it by the way,Cause it sure as hell ain't George Bush!
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
^ Buahahahahahahahaha..........
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Street/Strip Section 'OfficialcallerouterofBS'
I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
The Challenger IMO will not be able to compete with the Camaro if produced. From the things I've seen about each car, the Challenger seems just too heavy. And personally, the looks aren't that stunning anyways. But keep up the engine arguments, it entertains me to see people argue over cars that haven't come out yet:)
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06 GT Premium 5sp, Shaker 1000, Eibach PRO lowering springs, American Muscle GT4 Black rims, Bassani Catted X-pipe, Bassani Stainless Steel Racing Mufflers, Moser Racing Axles
UM...call me OLD, but I remember all of the Original Muscle cars....The OLD challenger, the OLD Mustangs and the crappy cameros. Everyone seems concerned that the Camero will actually be able to compete with their mustang...no need to worry...I'd be worried about the Challenger...that's what we worried about in the old days. My oldest Brother had a 70 440 with a 6 pack...my 70 Chevelle SS couldn't touch it...and I don't think the boss 429 was any match for it either. I'm actually surprised that the Challenger made it to production...considering the losses that Chrysler has...come to think of it...all of the auto makers. ust my nickels worth...oh wait inflation!...just my 2.29 worth.
^ Wow. So just because a particualr was fastest 35 years ago it'll win by default this time??? LOL, okay. And besides, according to that logic, you're wrong anyways, because the '69 Camaro ZL1 murdered all.....
Oh, and the new Challenger will be a high 12-low 13 sec car. And considering they have virtually no aftermarket support, I don't see them as being much of a problem for the big boys....
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Street/Strip Section 'OfficialcallerouterofBS'
I wanna be a nonconformist just like everyone else......
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RE: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8 - 
