Not to hi-jack the post, but for what started out as a cheap car for good mpg has turned into a fun hobby. I've got Hotshot intake, 4-2-1 header with custom exhaust and Dynomax muffler(trying to stay away from fart can look and sound), under drive pulley, MSD ignition, cams and adjustable cam gears, Ford Racing pcm with Superchip, short shifter, suspension work, etc. The adj cam gear is how I'm getting 40mpg. I can move the power band up to drop rpm's on highway, but lose torque, not good for track. I have a bored throttle body and intake manifold waiting as well.
210 hp doesnt sould like much coming from a 4.0 liter motor espically when you compare it to 200 hp from a 2 liter car. that is misleading. the reason is torque. look at the power curve on a 4.0 and then look at a honda 4 banger. the ford has flat torque from 2k to 5k rmp, that means good hp anywhere along the rmp range (hp = rpm x torque). the 2 liter has next to no torque so it has to get all its power from rpm so thats where the torque is. what this means on the street is that while the a car with 210 hp 240 lb/ft of trq will be just as fast as the same car with 210 hp and 140 lb/fl of trq at high speed (top end) the torquier car will GET INTO the high rpm faster. the 4 liter has like 150 hp at as low as 3000 rpm. no N/A 2 liter ever made has anywhere near that kind of power at 3k rpm. in short the 4.0 v6 is a better performance engine than a rsx 4 banger AND IT COST LESS TO BOOT!
god hondas suck, how great would it be to have a civic with a mustang v6 in there. all the idiot ricers would be like OMG YOU RUINED DA CAR DOG!!!11 and then you race it against their 15k japanesse import engine with half the displacement and they are all like OMG DOGLET YOU MUST BE LIKE THE BEST DRIVER EVERZZZZZZSZ!!!11 god i hate hondas.
< Message edited by n4ggs -- 4/7/2005 3:46:33 AM >
Don't get me wrong please, I realized that the other post was blowing up, I'm not saying the V6 is a weak car or anything of the like. I'm just curious if anybody can figure out why Ford made a 4.0L with only 210hp? This also isn't a Import vs. Domestic thing but obviously theres plenty V6's out there smaller and making much more power. 3.5L Nissan 290hp, or less tuned 240hp. I would assume the torque on the 3.5L Nissan engine and the 4.0L Ford will be about the same but the Nissan still has more horsepower, why? Gas mileage doesn't seem to make sense? Sound might, but it sounds like a weak excuse. Is it strictly the competition with it's big brother?
I'm looking for more logical business oriented reasons why the V6 was made to be a 4.0L with low horsepower rating in comparison to it's competitions V6's. Also the Chevy V6's what are their horsepower ratings (NA not the Supercharged V6)?
Hmm, your right. Ford should have worked harder and made alot more HP, huh. It should probably have about 290 you know.. Then people could stroll out to the dealership and take a gander at the GT and the V6 and decided which one they want more. I'm sure alot of people would still get the GT you know, that extra $5000 for 10 HP...Maybe they could even throw a supercharger on there. Oh wait...nope, scratch these ideas because then the six hating GT owners couldn't talk **** anymore. Nevermind.
Computer Geek, how c@n I h3lp u? Posts: 14685
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ORIGINAL: Shifty
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ORIGINAL: nanaki
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ORIGINAL: Shifty
Well why does the GT only have 300hp? Why don't they try to match the new z06's number of 500hp on a n/a v8? Because they are fitting the car to the market.
that's what the cobras and saleens are for.
Exactly. If the cars had higher and higher horse power, our insurance would be EVEN HIGHER! Sure horsepower rules but I hate paying for it. This is what the aftermarket is for.
funny, because when i got my 04. the insurance on the v6 was 1800/yr, the GT was 1600/yr. figure that one out. the agent couldn't so he gave it to me.
No body notice the cute woman here? A little young but really that also is some beautiful country where ever that is.
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ORIGINAL: xRockThePonyx
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ORIGINAL: luv_the_stang
who cares about the v6 lol
I think Ford did that just because some people might want the look of a mustang, but not an overwhelming amount of HP. Think about it, old ladies driving around in 300HP 6 bangers? Would not be a good thing, they'd kill someone with all that power.
I think it might help them keep the price down in a way, that way they sell more 6ers. The 6ers really keep the stang alive on sales, because they definitely don't sell nearly as many GTS as 6ers.
ok apparently a majority of you didn't read my post.. thats nice. Anyways yes the engine was convenient and yes it saves costs, why not use the old V6 engine then? They could have put the same money into that and made more horsepower probably. If it was economy they shouldn't have chosen a bigger liter than previous years. I guess it makes sense but it just doesn't look good to me that a tuned down V6 3.5L in a family car makes more horsepower, gets better gas mileage, and out performs this V6 Mustang. I just for some reason would think that they would consider these things and perhaps make an engine for the Mustang that they could use in other vehicles in the future. It's not like they are just making this car this year and then dropping the V6 next year.
Posts: 614
Joined: 3/19/2005 From: Boston, MA Status: offline
They didn't neccessarily choose the biggest "displacement". Wasn't there a 4.2 at some time?? I think they went with this engine because it's pretty well balanced. It has a fair amount of torque without having to wind it up. I know you can just about balance any engine in regards to HP/torque, but this engine seems to do it with a pretty smooth cam setup.
ok apparently a majority of you didn't read my post.. thats nice. Anyways yes the engine was convenient and yes it saves costs, why not use the old V6 engine then? They could have put the same money into that and made more horsepower probably. If it was economy they shouldn't have chosen a bigger liter than previous years. I guess it makes sense but it just doesn't look good to me that a tuned down V6 3.5L in a family car makes more horsepower, gets better gas mileage, and out performs this V6 Mustang. I just for some reason would think that they would consider these things and perhaps make an engine for the Mustang that they could use in other vehicles in the future. It's not like they are just making this car this year and then dropping the V6 next year.
You also need to keep in mind they RAN OUT of the 3.8l engines that were in the older mustangs, thus the reason they switch to the quick fix 3.9L for the 2004. The 4.0 is a stronger block that has already had some serious development time in the Exloders (err Explorers). Why go back and rework Everything? That would have delayed the mustang or given it problems for the first couple of years. Notice how most of the complaints with the 05 Stangs are not related to the engines? They left the most complex, expensive part to design alone. Thus keeping the costs down.
The engines you're tlaking about in the imports are just the same, reworks of an existing design. The new 350Z uses a reworked Infinit Engine. Porsch Cayanne uses a modified Carrera motor in the lower end model.
I don't think you remember how much flak Ford dealt with when they went to Modular engines and droped the 5.0 and older 3.8L design. The first few years suffered with cracked intakes and blown head gaskets. Why would any BUSINESS MODEL put that at risk again when they are trying to MAKE MONEY, not lose it? Could they have designed the V6 to have more power..probably, but then why buy a V8? Oh wait, let's bump the power on that...hmm, now we have to ask for more money for the car, putting it out of reach of those that would actually buy a rear wheel drive V8 Heck, now lets but IRS on it and bump it up some more...
You didn't do a good job of reading some of the replies you got.
How much more business sense do you need it to make? Oh wait, it's not the answer you were looking/hoping for, my bad...
What I was told by one of the local dealers (and they ALWAYS tell the truth ) is that Ford has to hit a certain average MPG for all Mustangs lumped together. They have to make more V6's than V8's to hit the required MPG rating. As a result, there are more V6's in production. I did try to check this out on the EPA.gov web site and while I did find that there are indeed MPG standards I couldn't find the one in particular that applies to Mustangs (just try finding anything specific on a government web site!)
Now for some conjecture: If they had tuned the V6 to make more HP, it would bring the mileage down to the point where they couldn't meet the MPG mandate at all. The V6 doesn't get much better mileage as it is!
I've done some more checking and this is related to the Energy Policy Conservation Act passed in the 70's. The act mandates MPG requirements which are subtitled "Corporate Average Fuel Economy" (CAFE). CAFE requires that a manufacturer's fleet must meet a minimum MPG standard or that manufacturer is subject to fines. The light truck standard is currently 21 mpg and passenger car standard is 27.5 (has been frozen at this level since 1990). The V6 and GT Mustangs are below this, but the average is calculated for ALL Ford passenger cars. So if some cars are over the standard, others can be under. BMW, DaimlerChrysler import, Fiat, Lotus, and Porsche have all consistently failed the minimum and have been paying fines for years. So far no domestic or asian manufacturer has had to pay.
if I could add my 2 cents. I think 210 HP is Great. Everyone knows that in 95 the last year for the 5.0 it made 215hp stock. Now that 4.0L is looking pretty good I's say. Now Trq thats a different story
I've got to agree with you 98. I drove the GT and V6 versions and was very impressed with the way the V6 sounded and performed even after having just driven the GT. I HAD TO HAVE a ragtop , so going GT would have meant parting with a LOT more cash! Besides, my street racing days are long behind me. So there's a black on black with red interior V6 gracing my garage now and I love it
I understand the CAFE argument.... I recently drove a 05 Toyota Avalon.... it has 280 hp and 260 lb. ft, and is hitting 31 on the HWY!
The real answer when no clear answer comes forward is always MONEY!!
They only have 210 hp because of money. Apply this principle to 100 other unanswerable questions and 99 of them are easily answered by the almighty $$.
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2005 Mustang V-6 Premium Vert in Legend Lime /Auto/ Black Top and bottom stripe/ Leather Parchment Int./ Interior upgrade package/ Shaker 1000/ Active Anti-theft/ side bags/ anti-lock brakes and boot cover
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RE: Why do the V6's ONLY have 210hp? - 
) is that Ford has to hit a certain average MPG for all Mustangs lumped together. They have to make more V6's than V8's to hit the required MPG rating. As a result, there are more V6's in production. I did try to check this out on the EPA.gov web site and while I did find that there are indeed MPG standards I couldn't find the one in particular that applies to Mustangs (just try finding anything specific on a government web site!) 