Since I will be installing my supercharger myself and saw this thread I started getting a little concern reading this thread so I found that TSB I posted above at another forum.
I did a search on the Aerokroil mentioned in the TSB sounds like a very good product. I thought I would post this link as I thought it related and kind of funny :), but did read a lot of other very positive things on this stuff so I am going to order a can.
I was at my Ford dealer today to order my GTA's ($299.00) and stopped at the service desk just to see what labor was for pulling the plugs and if they cover it if they break any or would I have to pay.
My Car 06 GT
Labor 2 hrs $200.00 :)
I asked if they broke any would I have to pay? He asked how many miles I have and I have around 5K he said no problem I would not be charged if they broke any and he doesn't see a problem with only 5K.
He said if it was high mileage they wouldn't cover them but with 5k he said he would and said should not be a problem. So I asked for kicks would you put that in writing and he said yes.
So I guess it depends on the dealer and miles at least in my area.
EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:
• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
• your vehicle or engine is free from defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship that could prevent it from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.
• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of defective emissions-related parts listed under What is Covered?. (Spark plugs ARE listed under "What is Covered?")
So as I read this, I should not be charged to repair a defective spark plug. So, if I take my car in to have the plugs changed, and one or more breaks in the head due to carbon build-up (a Ford-acknowledged issue), then the spark plug is defective and should be repaired/replaced under the emmisions warranty.
Granted, the defect isn't apparent until the plug breaks, but once it does, the warranty should apply:
Diagnosis - carbon-fused spark plug resulting in breakage upon attempted removal Repair - remove remaining plug parts with special tool. Replace - new plugs.
The way I read it, and I don't see how it can be read another way, Ford HAS to pay for the repair if the plugs break as long as the car is within warranty.
I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform to EPA guidelines?
I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've run all the tests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."
Now I think there are a lot of dealers that will try and help customers by filing claims under the 8/80 when a plug breaks. It sucks that they are forced to go through the back door to get help.
It sounds as if you are not with the Service Department at a Ford Dealership. In that case, I agree with your position, but I think that if a Ford Service Department mechanic were to have this problem, especially while the drive train is still in warranty, Ford should and hopefully would step up and stand behind their product and service.
I'm just sick hearing about this. I own a 3v 5.4 in an F-150 and two 4.6 liter motors, one of which is a 3v in my new GT. What to do????
I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform to EPA guidelines?
I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've run all the tests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."
Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.
I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you. It really worries me as I have (2) 4.6's and a 5.4.
It may not be a good time to ask, but did the dealer ever have anything to say about the installation of the MGW shifter with regard to how if at all it might affect the vehicle warranty? Just curious, as I am considering one for my new GT, and am wanting to avoid warranty issues. I think I know the answer, but am curious about your experience.
I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform to EPA guidelines?
I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've run all the tests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."
Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.
I agree and I think a lot of it will depend on the dealer to do the right thing in this situation.
EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:
• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
• your vehicle or engine is free from defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship that could prevent it from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.
• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of defective emissions-related parts listed under What is Covered?. (Spark plugs ARE listed under "What is Covered?")
So as I read this, I should not be charged to repair a defective spark plug. So, if I take my car in to have the plugs changed, and one or more breaks in the head due to carbon build-up (a Ford-acknowledged issue), then the spark plug is defective and should be repaired/replaced under the emmisions warranty.
Granted, the defect isn't apparent until the plug breaks, but once it does, the warranty should apply:
Diagnosis - carbon-fused spark plug resulting in breakage upon attempted removal Repair - remove remaining plug parts with special tool. Replace - new plugs.
The way I read it, and I don't see how it can be read another way, Ford HAS to pay for the repair if the plugs break as long as the car is within warranty.
Fair argument, but not one that would wash. Only if the plug is misfiring will they need to replace it. The way Ford sees it. if it ain't broke, why fix it? The plug isn't broke until a change is tried.
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2007 GT Coupe Premium Windveil Blue, 3.31, Auto, 18" Fanblades, Interior Upgrade, Active Anti-Theft, Side Bags, Leather, K&N Drop-in, Splash Guards, 14" Antenna, Rolled Tips, Born on date...3/07
I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform to EPA guidelines?
I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've run all the tests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."
Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.
Exactly. If it is before 100K miles, they will say it isn't needed. Their covered unless something truely is wrong with a plug.
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2007 GT Coupe Premium Windveil Blue, 3.31, Auto, 18" Fanblades, Interior Upgrade, Active Anti-Theft, Side Bags, Leather, K&N Drop-in, Splash Guards, 14" Antenna, Rolled Tips, Born on date...3/07
Exactly. If it is before 100K miles, they will say it isn't needed. Their covered unless something truely is wrong with a plug.
"I found this post on an F150 forum: Look when you take out your 1st plug{hopefully intact} look where the ground sheild meets the thread body if it is rusting or if the sheild spinns take your truck to the dealer. It is covered by warranty. This is not something i think. I know. I had mine replaced i can show you my work order. I havent been able to put pics in my gallery for a while now so i'll have to email it to you. Look in your warrantybook sparkplugs are covered."
First let me say I'm sorry for your troubles - I can almost feel your pain. I love this car and I try to do the right thing by it. Nothing feels worse than trying to do things properly and preventatively and getting screwed for it. If it helps any, i appreciate your willingness to share your experience with us so that it may help us decide what direction we want to go.
And that is where I am at now. 24K miles and unsure what to do. Do I:
a) Attempt to remove them myself and risk breaking one? b) Let the dealer do it and risk THEM breaking one at my expense? c) Ignore them until 100K miles and hope that a better soultion or lawsuit comes along?
If your willng, some more info about your experience would really help. So, questions:
1) Did you use AeroKriol before initially loosening the plugs? If so, how long did you let it sit? 2) After the initial 1/8 - 1/4 turn, how long did you let the AeroKroil sit before attempting removal? 3) Did you use a torque wrench? A spark plug socket? 4) What's the breakdown of what the dealer charged you? In other words, how much was for the spark plug change and how much for the removal of the broken plugs? Did they charge you for the cost of the special removal tool? Any chance of copying the invoice and posting it, or just posting the info on it?
I'm hoping the answers will help me make a decision. Thanks in advance.
< Message edited by richmod -- 2/27/2008 6:26:56 PM >
The two plug Wrenches I currently own don't even come close to fitting these plugs. Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what size I need? 2008 GT with 4.6 3V.
I want to pull them and install the anti-seize compound at least until I can replace them with the new Champions or other one piece units. Any advice appreciated! THX!
I just ordered this one. SK 4419 3/8-Inch Drive 9/16-Inch Spark Plug Socket, Specifically designed for use on 2004 Ford F-150 spark plugs , $12 shipped from Amazon.
I was just at the dealership this morning picking up my Mustang for a dead battery, rattles in the dash and the water leak up front. I asked about the spark plugs and they said it would be $200 to pull the plugs and put the anti-sieze compound on the plugs. I asked who would be responsible if one of the plugs broke when they were pulling them and he said it would depend on the mileage on the car. He didn't give a mileage in particular but said if the miles were low enough then when they called Ford about the broken plug they would then see if they would be covered in replacing the plug or not. I might take it back in a couple of weeks just to have them do it so I can replace the plugs at a later date without the worry of busting any. I'll be taking a chance on whether I have to pay for a broken plug or not.
Thanks. Let me know if it works. Also, what year is your engine? Hopefully the plugs are the same size as in my '08. I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs by asking, but yesterday I pulled the coil from one of my plugs and put a 9/16 deep well socket on it, and it was a sloppy fit, seemed way too loose. A 1/2 would not work, too small. Wish I had some metric deep wells just to check.
Again, please let me if the 9/16 works on your plugs. THX!
Well, I finally made it to the dealer the other day to discuss the issue. As I figured, they had no real good answer. Remember, I have 4,800 miles on my car. Here's what I got in a nutshell:
1) They didn't know the 4.6L had this issue. They knew about the 5.4L. 2) If I did it myself, it would obviously be on my dime to fix. 3) Ford sees it as a normal wear part, so they don't warranty them. 4) They didn't know about the nickel anti-sieze stuff. 5) They really wouldn't say they would cover it even if I had them do the change now. 6) They claim that using the recommended proceedure (I told them I saw the video), they rarely have issues. 7) In parting, they gave my Ford's customer care number and said if I were going to pull and put the anti-sieze on now, they agreed now would be the time do it.
Moderators, I'm curious. Does this forum have the ability to take polls? I'd be curious to see many of us have changed plugs, how many changed them successfully and how many broke the plugs. On the broken plugs it would be nice to know the year of the car, the mileage when the plug broke and how many plugs were broken. This is definitely a real problem but I wonder how often it really happens...
I just ordered this one. SK 4419 3/8-Inch Drive 9/16-Inch Spark Plug Socket, Specifically designed for use on 2004 Ford F-150 spark plugs , $12 shipped from Amazon.
Hope it works
Thanks for that info just ordered it along with Aero kroil.
I have a 2005 Mustang GT with 8,000 miles and just had the plugs replaced. I talked to the guy who did the work yesterday and asked him some questions about the removal. Well, first off he had no idea about the problems these cars have been having with plug's breaking. He tells me this after he already pulled all the plugs out. Anyways, I asked him if he had any difficulty getting them out and he said none at all. He didn't use anything but a socket to remove them. He said they were tight but came right out. He did apply anti-seize to the new plugs before he installed them.
So my recommendation to others is to get them out while your car has low mileage especially if you plan on keeping it for awhile. I don't ever plan on getting rid of mine so I figured I better get this taken care of now versus later when I could have a major headache awaiting me.
Printable Version
RE: Scary Plug Change - 
Anyways, I asked him if he had any difficulty getting them out and he said none at all. He didn't use anything but a socket to remove them. He said they were tight but came right out. He did apply anti-seize to the new plugs before he installed them. 
