Well, after reading all the horror stories, I'm going to pull & replace the plugs in my '06 GT with 38K miles. I have a new set of HT1 plugs,my socket, Permatex nickel anti-sieze and Aerokroil. I am nervous as heck but I figure I've already waited longer than I should have. I am so angry at Ford for this horrible design flaw. I love my Mustang, but I shouldn't have to fear changing the damn plugs. I'd love to see a class action law suit over this, Ford should bleed.

good luck golden, let us know how it
turns out

Good luck. Mine were difficult with only 7K miles...

I have experienced this first hand. I broke the first plug on the left bank when I made this jump. You may want to look up TSB 06-15-2. I have it but cant attach PDF here for some reason.

Advice:

1. Get some PB buster or a good penetrate.

2. Get your engine up to operating temperature first THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. When you get up to temp drive it a few More miles to let it heat soak.

3. Pull all of the coils, as you do squirt some penitent in the hole.

4. Use a torque wrench to remove the plugs do not exceed 25 ft lbs of torque while removing. If you do stop use more penitent.

Mystang,
I'm surprised this job should be done with the engine heated up. I always read with aluminum heads the plugs should be removed with the engine dead cold.

It's the least of 2 evils. The carbon-soot will be softer when warm. You don't want the engine REAL hot. Just warm. Let it run for a few m inutes is all. Note that the engine will cool down as you struggle to get them out so allow for some cool down time or just restart to warm back up.

whats the problem? I have never heard of anything happening with the plugs? will they break or something? I would like to know.

ORIGINAL: mattsimonton

whats the problem? I have never heard of anything happening with the plugs? will they break or something? I would like to know.





Yes, they wil break. It iscommon. Carbon cements them into the head.

I talked to the dealership service dept. today. He said yes, he had heard of this problem, but that it is much more common in the 5.4L in the trucks. God, I hope this is so.

He's lame. We have the same heads. Same design. Same problem.

In case any of you are in doubt here is the pictures of the plug and the tool I made to remove it. Also you need to get the engine up to operating temperature. The attached broken plug is the result of not heading that warning in the TSB. When the engine was hot enough all of the rest of the plugs came out with out any problems,however I did use the penetrating oil on all of them.

local://upfiles/89247/03194D3F854F42249250C6041FBF85CD.jpg

local://upfiles/89247/FB4EBC1CCEF14CF39462F5A4DFB93BEA.jpg

I pulled my plugs at 10k miles. Engine was cold, no penetrating oil, no problems. I used my torque wrench to remove them and set it on 25 ft lbs. I removed them again at 12,000 miles when I added the whipple and HTO's. I had very little carbon build up after 10k miles.

ORIGINAL: mattsimonton

whats the problem? I have never heard of anything happening with the plugs? will they break or something? I would like to know.

Here's a video tutorial. Click on #26:
http://www.flatratetech.com/index.php?categoryid=4

wow I never encountered this problem but I always pulled the plugs when the car was warm. I had not even heard of this problem. I have changed my plugs 3 times. The first time I replaced the stocks @ 60,000 miles and put in HT1's and after 5,000 miles the car would stutter @ 5500 RPM's and above in 3rd and 4th gear no matter what I did. I then replaced the plugs with stocks and the car ran perfect and felt like it picked up 20HP. I will never use the HT1's again.

Well, I'm screwed. Absolutely went by the letter of the TSB, did everything just as directed and the second plug broke off-in the worst way, the porcelain stayed in the lower part of the plug. I just threw in the towel, called AAA and had the POS trucked to the dealership where I bought it.

I am so depressed right now I could just croak. This car only has 38K miles (of course, 2 K past warranty) on the clock and God knows how much it will cost to fix it, and if it will ever be the same. This is the first car I ever ordered from the factory and was my retirement gift to myself. At this point, I doubt I'll ever buy another Ford product. I wish to heaven I had taken it in to the dealer before the warranty expired-but I didn't. If you have a Ford vehicle with the 3V heads, I would trade it before you need new plugs. Good luck to you, brothers.

sorry to hear it pony....i hope the dealership
does a decent job for a decent price.

some day this will just be a bad memory and
you'll once again be enjoying the stang...

hang in there

Hang in there Goldenpony. I bet the dealer gets the plug out .

I am wonderingif the factory put nickel anti seize on or was this a after thought? I actually changed mine and did not being ignorant of the TSB. I am considering changing them again before they get loaded up. Only been 2k miles .

Thanks guys. I don't think the factory put anything on the plugs at assembly, didn't appear to be anything on the one plug I got out.I think the nickel anti-sieze is a response to this problem. Funny thing was, there wasn't even much carbon on the one plug I successfully got out.

I was chatting with the service advisor at the dealer. He expects, sometime down the road, a class action law suit over this. I hope the engineer that designed this head is now working at Subway.

How much does the dealer charge to change out plugs? Cause i'd rather pay a few extra bucks for them to do it then to risk breaking one off.

The dealer quoted me $250 - $300, I assume that included the plugs which run about $100 a set.

i make mechanics do all of my work for me on my car.. even if i can do it myself i don't want to.. ;)

Sorry to hear about your plug change. I watched that video and it scared the crap out of me. This situation sucks a$$

birdoffire7
Date 2/16/2008 4:04:05 PM


Sorry to hear about your plug change. I watched that video and it scared the crap out of me. This situation sucks a$$


+1 I only have about 8500 miles on mine and I know I should try to pull them and put anti-seize on them but Im just too damn scared. I mean it seems to me that the dealer charges about as much as the plugs and the cost of the tool in case of breakage. I mean I would probably save money in the long end if I did them my self, but my luck one would break off in the worst spot imaginable and I would have to have it towed to the dealer so they could take the head off to get it out!!! I think I will just pay the dealer and not stress over it when the time comes.

I'm still running the stock plugs at 106,000 miles . One dealer said that I'd be responsible if "they" broke a plug doing the job. He said then it would cost "me" like 2 grand or something. Needless to say, they didn't do my plugs.

I will search for a new dealer. Would it be their problem if they break a plug even if the car isn't under warranty?

ORIGINAL: CBSTANG





birdoffire7
Date 2/16/2008 4:04:05 PM


Sorry to hear about your plug change. I watched that video and it scared the crap out of me. This situation sucks a$$


+1 I only have about 8500 miles on mine and I know I should try to pull them and put anti-seize on them but Im just too damn scared. I mean it seems to me that the dealer charges about as much as the plugs and the cost of the tool in case of breakage. I mean I would probably save money in the long end if I did them my self, but my luck one would break off in the worst spot imaginable and I would have to have it towed to the dealer so they could take the head off to get it out!!! I think I will just pay the dealer and not stress over it when the time comes.


Yeah man. I've changed plugs on cars I don't know how many times. When I orginally bought this car I thought "Great, they're right on top, piece of cake." Now I don't know if I should pull them now with 4,800 miles or what until 100,000 and let Ford do it. Once again, this sucks a$$.

One thing I'm sure of. You should NOT pull them at 4800 miles. They have anti seize on them from the factory. I myself wouldn't even think about it untill 40000 miles. Why bother and loose sleep over it?

If plugs have anti-sieze from the factory, they just started putting it on. My '06 didn't have anything on them.

I would think the dealer would be responsible if they broke one. Whether it was under warrenty or not. I would expect them to foot the bill.....they're the dealer.

Wilsonman02
I would think the dealer would be responsible if they broke one. Whether it was under warrenty or not. I would expect them to foot the bill.....they're the dealer.


Thats exactly what I believe, I am paying trained professionals to do a job, and if they ended up breaking a plug or anything else for that matter it should definitely be there responsiblity to replace it. I mean if one of the mechanics actually said to me, "Well I got all but one plug out which broke off, so I'm gonna have to go ahead and charge you extra to repair it." I would definitely have to freak out on he/she for telling me that I have to pay for something they screwed up.

I have heard of some dealerships making you sign a wavier for the plug change.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

One thing I'm sure of. You should NOT pull them at 4800 miles. They have anti seize on them from the factory. I myself wouldn't even think about it untill 40000 miles. Why bother and loose sleep over it?



Normally I wouldn't even think about it until about 50,000 miles. Going to the dealership this week to see if they did start putting anti-sieze on them. Thought process was to keep ahead of the game for down the road... pull the plugs now, put the nickel anti-sieze on them, and not stress as much when the time comes to swap them out. I would hope that these engines run clean enough to not have carbon build up at 4,800 miles which would make it easy to do it now.

The thing that surprised me was that on the first plug, the one that came out OK (came out hard, but didn't break) was that there was very little carbon on the outside of the ground electrode shield. Just a little at the end close to the cylinder. There's only one explanation for all of this. Design flaw. This is a ticking time bomb that will explode in Ford's face. There are a ton of 3V engines out there; just wait until they all are due plug changes.

On my 2007, I plan on taking it in right before the 60,000 mile power train warranty runs out. That way if one breaks on them, it is on their dime.

A plug breaking off when a shop changes them is NOT their responsibility, unless the technician directly caused it. I knowthat response wont be well liked, but its YOUR vehicle. Repairs are YOUR responsibility. Since this is a known issue, you should be told upfront that it could happen. I understand being upset about a $2000 spark replacement/tune-up. But its a design issue. Not a shop liability.I own a shop, and will tell customers of known issues up front like this.

Things do happen in this line of work. And, I have learned what jobs to avoid like the plague. I've also learned what type of customers to avoid bending over backwards for/avoid like the plague. You know the old saying, "You cant please everyone". I am very easy to get along with andhave agreat reputation in my community for honesty/good work. For my good/loyal customers, I will sometimes cover these incidentals for them. Something like this though, no. Like I said, its a design issue. Not something a shop caused. There are special tools that end up being designed to help lessen the chances of bad things happening, or correcting things when they go wrong. And there is just such a thing for this.There is a procedure to reduce breakage, and a tool available to help when one does.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off with this response.

I understand what your saying SCCAGT but I do not fully agree with you. I mean if I take my car to a Ford "certified" technician that has all the training and specialty tools for such an event as a spark plug breaking off then I believe they should have to make good on the fact that they are suppose to represent the Ford Motor Co. name, even if your warranty is up. I bet if they were cool enough technicians they could probably even help you out and bill at least some of it as being under warranty even its not. But if they did warn me about the possible outcome of the situation andit came down to me actually having to pay to get it fixed, then I sure as hell would not pay $2000 for them just to take the head off pop a couple pieces of spark plugs out and put it back on. I mean that is a down right ridiculous amount of money for some f@#ked up spark plugs. I would definitely become proficient when it came to removing and installing my own heads.

Understand, my $2000 figure is not exact. Just a close approximation of what a head gasket job can run on some cars, when done correctly. When I have come across other jobs with a potential bad/costly outcome, I inform the customer what can happen. Lets use this example:
GM 5.7's have, for years, used a cheap pot metal part for a quick connect on the intake manifold to route coolant through. This cheap little $10 part can crack and start to leak coolant. Being pot metal, and the intake aluminum, the metals expand and contract at different rates. Coolant will eventually start to corrode it, especially if flushes are not done at regular intervals, due to electrolysis. The different metals will pretty much fuse together. This $10 part is suppose to thread right out. It has a huge area for a wrench to fit on. But will end up snapping right off. Now, there is a tool that is about 50% effective at removing the threads remaining in the intake. If the metal chunks do not cooperate and come out for fear of pissing off the tech, the intake manifold must be removed to clear the threads. If the intake is NOT removed to get rid of the threads, the metal particles will enter the cooling system and cause bad things to happen. We are talking about vehicles that have well over 100K miles and the repair bill to do this would be approximately $500. Some people dont feel the vehicle is worth the repair cost. So $500 dollars becomes an enormous percentage of the market value of the vehicle.

Can you see how similar this situation is to the spark plugs becoming fused to the head and breaking off? Is it the technicians fault? No. Design flaw. Those $10 aftermarket quick connects are much stronger, and naturally, we coat the threads so it wont happen again. However, the chances of it happening again during the servicable life of the vehicle are pretty much slim to none, since its already so old. This is where I will see the problem down the road. People will have these cars when they are 7-10 yrs old and never had the plugs changed before then. This job, at that time, would probably mean a broken plug in every cylinder. So theres a head gasket job right there, at a time, when the people who can least afford it, are faced with springing the cash, or getting something new to replace the car.

The only difference between the two scenarios is, we just spent a very large chunk of change on this vehicle, and expect it to be trouble free for a fair amount of time. None of us certainly would expect to shell out a couple grand on a car due to broken spark plugs, so early in its lifespan. Spark plugs are a maintenance item. I have NEVER seen spark plugs covered by ANY aftermarket warranty. I seriously doubt they would also be covered under Fords powertrain warranty. Do some homework before getting bent out of shape with the dealer, who is independent in its operation from Ford.

It is a design flaw, but its fords design flaw not mine. If the dealer does any work on my vehicle and broke,damaged or messed something up in the process i feel they should pay it for it. Why should the consumer pay outta pocket for Fords design flaw. Doesn't make sense to me.

Is this an issue on the 08's?

Dont know if its an issue on 08's or not. Its easy to take care ofat this pointright now though. The spark plugs are easy to access. Yesterday, I got some Motorcraft spark plugs for $5.11 ea. and an 8 oz bottle of nickle antisieze for $11. I will be pulling mine out once the weather is nice enough to get the car to my shop. Even though I only have 9500mi on it right now, I dont EVER want to have to worry about yanking the heads off for this simple maintenance job.

I feel they would HAVE to cover the plugs under the powertrain warrantee. A problem isn't supposd to exist BEFORE it runs out and if one does, FORD will need to cover it.

I've read that it's advisable to swap the plugs every 15-20k, as going much further than that significantly increases the risk of breakage due to excessive carbon build-up.
I did mine at 15k.
Wasn't able to find a proper spark-plug socket so I purchased a 6-point deep-well and fabricated my own insulator from a spare spark-plug socket.
Fired up the car and let it idle for 2-3 minutes to get the temperature up.
Squirted some canned air to remove debris in each wellfollowed by a dose of PB and let it sit for about 10 minutes.
Very carefully removed the plugs using a 3/8 torque wrench set at 25 lbs ft.
(the plugs had no anti-seize applied from the factory and there was a fairly good amount of carbon on them; car was 'born' 3/06).
Then I let the car sit for an hour+ to let it cool back down and installed the new plugs using anti-seize on the threads.
Went smooth but I admit that my heart was pounding in my ears when I was removing the old plugs.

Why did you put anti-seize on the threads and not on the plug shaft?

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Why did you put anti-seize on the threads and not on the plug shaft?

oops ... meant to say on the shaft just below the threads.
:)

What is the ultimate / long term solution for this problem.

Frequent plug changes?
Tons of anti-seize compound?

I might be buying an 06' GT next weekend that has only 5k miles. This problem has gotten me worried. Should I remove the plugs ASAP to apply anti-seize?

Would removing the plugs frequently without changing them solve the problem (clean off residue).

Thanks

ORIGINAL: Vapour Trails

What is the ultimate / long term solution for this problem.

Frequent plug changes?
Tons of anti-seize compound?

I might be buying an 06' GT next weekend that has only 5k miles. This problem has gotten me worried. Should I remove the plugs ASAP to apply anti-seize?

Would removing the plugs frequently without changing them solve the problem (clean off residue).

Thanks









If you remove and clean them, and reapply the compound every 10-15K miles, there is no problem.

Original: Vapour Trails

What is the ultimate / long term solution for this problem.

Frequent plug changes?
Tons of anti-seize compound?

I might be buying an 06' GT next weekend that has only 5k miles. This problem has gotten me worried. Should I remove the plugs ASAP to apply anti-seize?

Would removing the plugs frequently without changing them solve the problem (clean off residue).

Thanks



I've talked to people at the ford dealer I used to work for,and the info they are getting from Ford sounds like theusual BS. The same BSI heard from them when I worked there.

From what I understand of the problem, its a design problem with the cylinder head, not the spark plugs themselves.

My fearless prediction on a "long term solution". If this is really as big of a problem as it sounds, there will be a law suit, Ford will be forced to provide extended coverage on the affected engines. There will be lots of wiggle room, like Ford will cover a spark plug repair only on the affected engines in the specified models, within the specified mileage and time, up to a certain dollar amount. And only on the affected cylinders and only pay for this repair ONCE.

You can bet Ford is banking on most people leaving them in til 100k or better. By that time they have calculated that most of the affected models will be out the extended coverage by either time or miles.

I hate to sound so negative, but I was there and saw the howFord handled the3.8 v6 head gasket problem and the whole Firestone ordeal.

I am counting on ford for nothing on this one, I have this 4.6 and a 5.4 F150 and I have been and will be taking my plugs out every 20k and putting anti-seize on them. The 5.4 has 70k on it and no problems so far with this method.

Sorry, duplicate post....

This is all very interesting, might be taking mine in to get changed before the 3yr/36000 mile W. runs out !


Thanks

already ran into one, with the plug didnt want to come off the head.

My solution=breaker bar and thread chaser. OUR MOTO/ "No car wins, no Marriage, Just Friends";)


Anti-seize is critical and yall should apply a dab of it asap.

If lube and undercoat protection were applied from the factory to alot of things, cars would be more easier to work on.

Does all the blow by in these engines contributeto the spark plug removal problem? I am really amazed how much my oil separator catches.

ORIGINAL: frd06GT


I hate to sound so negative, but I was there and saw the howFord handled the3.8 v6 head gasket problem and the whole Firestone ordeal.




This is my first Ford so I have no personal experience with the warranty they offer. I see a lot of people on this thread saying they expect it to be under warranty if under 3/36. I agree, however, my dealer specifically pointed out some sections of the warranty saying things like water hoses aren't covered after 12,000 miles, etc. I was like WTH... I told the guy if I bust a hose at 13,000 miles he can plan on covering it or being tired of seeing me in his office. So, I could see them refusing to make it right.

I quoted the comment about the 3.8 V6 head gasket problem. My X-Girl had a 95 V6 Coupe and her engine blew at 70K miles. Dealership put in a new engine, hoses, battery...all free of charge and out of warranty. I was impressed....

So, we'll have to see. Until I have something to complain about I'll just be happy with the car.

Original: Bullitlou

I quoted the comment about the 3.8 V6 head gasket problem. My X-Girl had a 95 V6 Coupe and her engine blew at 70K miles. Dealership put in a new engine, hoses, battery...all free of charge and out of warranty. I was impressed....



I guess being on the other side of the counter, I saw a lot ofthepeople who weren't so lucky for whatever reason.

How much does it cost to install 8 spark plugs in a 3V Mustang? $611.13. That was the bill when I got my car back. I had broken 1 spark plug, my authorized Ford dealer trained techician (the dealer's best engine man)broke 5. Gee, do you think there's a problem here? Let me remind you guys, this was with only 38K miles on the clock. I doubt I'll ever feel the same about this car again.

hahaha....well the manual does state a plug change at like 100,000....so this brings up some interesting things

Wow, that makes me sick. Was the high cost due to them fixing your 1 mistake, or did you have to pay for their 5 as well? I would expect that if I took mine in, I should only pay for what a routine change would cost, and if they break any, then it’s their dime!

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

How much does it cost to install 8 spark plugs in a 3V Mustang? $611.13. That was the bill when I got my car back. I had broken 1 spark plug, my authorized Ford dealer trained techician (the dealer's best engine man)broke 5. Gee, do you think there's a problem here? Let me remind you guys, this was with only 38K miles on the clock. I doubt I'll ever feel the same about this car again.


So I'm guessing they did not have to pull the cylinder head off. Now that you know about the problem, you should be able to prevent it and continue to enjoy your car.

ORIGINAL: praztek

Wow, that makes me sick. Was the high cost due to them fixing your 1 mistake, or did you have to pay for their 5 as well? I would expect that if I took mine in, I should only pay for what a routine change would cost, and if they break any, then it’s their dime!










They probably charged him for the $250 eazeeeee out tool.

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

How much does it cost to install 8 spark plugs in a 3V Mustang? $611.13. That was the bill when I got my car back. I had broken 1 spark plug, my authorized Ford dealer trained techician (the dealer's best engine man)broke 5. Gee, do you think there's a problem here? Let me remind you guys, this was with only 38K miles on the clock. I doubt I'll ever feel the same about this car again.

It may be worthwhile to file a complaint with Ford to try to get some $ out of them. I did this with another car manufacturer when a clutch prematurely failed at only 20K miles, and the manufacturer agreed to pay for the parts(half of the $400 total bill). Also, suggest that you get the old plugs if you plan to do this.

Are the Autolite Part #HT1 Revolution HT spark plugs built to address this issue? It says that the Revolution HT is specifically designed for the Ford Triton 3 valve engine. And a photo of the spark plug doesn't looked crimped to me but it's hard to tell.

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mfr,MOTORCRAFT,Ignition,7212,Spark+Plug

Once you go to the link find the spark plug for the Mustang and look at the photo. (you have to click on the more information button to see the photo)

Looks the same to me.

Never mind the host, but good to watch video !

Watch episode 26(heads are the same for the 4.6L):
http://www.flatratetech.com/index.php?categoryid=4

Thank goodness for this web site. I have 35.5K on mine and just saw this thread. It's the first I had heard about the potiential issue. I'll add the plugs to the over 12 warranty things I'll intend to have the dealer look at when I take in my car next week. My plugs have never been removed. I'll be watching from the distance as they pull the plugs....

$600 to fix/replace plugs! What a shame. I remember it would only cost me $4, 15 minutes and some scraped knuckles to change the plugs on my 'character-building'-first-car-VW-bug.

Just thought i wouild post this for those interested, I didn't see this link posted in this threadbut I just skimmed through and could have missed it.

Notes.

The below is for the 5.4 3V but same type 3Vhead as ours so there is somehints/helphere, also someone I believe here said use 25 Ft lbsbut this article says 33 ftlbsso not sure if the 33lbs applys to the 4.6.


http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/06152.pdf

ORIGINAL: praztek

Never mind the host, but good to watch video !

Watch episode 26(heads are the same for the 4.6L):
http://www.flatratetech.com/index.php?categoryid=4



It's almost impossible to "never mind the host", but thanks for the link. DAMN that guy is HORRIBLE! Uhhhh, reading lessons FTW!!!

ORIGINAL: TJ

Just thought i wouild post this for those interested, I didn't see this link posted in this threadbut I just skimmed through and could have missed it.

Notes.

The below is for the 5.4 3V but same type 3Vhead as ours so there is somehints/helphere, also someone I believe here said use 25 Ft lbsbut this article says 33 ftlbsso not sure if the 33lbs applys to the 4.6.


http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/06152.pdf




The "expected removal torque" is the 33 ft/lb value. The torque for installing new plugs is the 25 ft/lb. value. By the way, the plug I broke off, never even reached the 33 ft/lb torque while I was backing it out.

According to the "video lesson" seems that
the "expected removal torque" is
22-23 ft/lb *OR* 30-35Nm.
Installing is 25 ft/lb.

http://hemsidor.torget.se/users/b/bohjohan/convert/conv2_e.htm#torque
23Lbft == 31.183813Nm

If you check TSB # 06-15-2, you'll see expected removal torque of 33 ft/lbs or 45 NM. This TSB says it's for 5.4 3V engine, but it's the same for 4.6L.

It also says if you have moderate resistance, stop, and turn it forward a tad to try to lessen the torque and/or use more spray lube.

I did the scary plug change this weekend. This was their first time out and at 15k I didnt expect any problems. They were all fine, but had a LOT of carbon on them. I cleaned them, checked the gap, anti-seized them and installed them. I'll pull them back out at 30k.

FWIW,It really is scary when your pushing 20+ft/lbs and they haven't broken loose.

Mine will have 2 yrs ownership but only 8K now on the speedo. Looking at how the aluminum manifold is ozidizing from down here in south florida (I'm 15 miles from the beach so the salt isn't completely the culprit) and reading the horror stories here, I'm quering the dealer on WTF is going on.

BTW about the carbon, does anyone run 93 octane from other than Amoco/BP/Shell/Chevron/Sunoco? Could the build-up might have been caused by other than major brand gasolines?

ORIGINAL: SkyMaster19

Mine will have 2 yrs ownership but only 8K now on the speedo. Looking at how the aluminum manifold is ozidizing from down here in south florida (I'm 15 miles from the beach so the salt isn't completely the culprit) and reading the horror stories here, I'm quering the dealer on WTF is going on.

BTW about the carbon, does anyone run 93 octane from other than Amoco/BP/Shell/Chevron/Sunoco? Could the build-up might have been caused by other than major brand gasolines?














According to that picture at the Shell station, it sure could have been speeded up by inferior gas.

+1 on the inferior gas. In my case I've always run "high end" fuel and 93 octane. Ionly runlonger trips, so I dont know why there was so much carbon. Maybe there are more additives in the high octane thatcontributes to the deposits

I doubt the 93 oct had anything to do with it. I would think that the additives in the high end gas would have helped. It could possibly be the tune/gas you are using or just the way things are. I'm too much a chicken rat to mess with mine right now with only 13K on the log.

Looks like Shell is the gas to use.

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=us-en&FC2=/us-en/html/iwgen/leftnavs/zzz_lhn3_2_0.html&FC3=/us-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/fuel_stretch/fuel_stretch_fuels_ga_0111.html

I have run BP 93 octane for a couple of years. I just recently changed to Shell V-Power.

WTF?!? I have 24K on my car - what should I do? I've already asked my service advisor if they would cover the cost if they broke - nope, my dime. So I might as well do it myself since I'm certain I'll be more careful than a tech well. BUT I"M SCARED TO DEATH TO DO IT! WTF?!? Way to stand by your customers Ford!

How in the world can they say " no " to not covering it if they break it? Is this not a flaw on Fords part? This is just completely insane, just my .02.

As I understand it, if a plug breaks and gets stuck and the dealer were to make aclaim under the car's 3/36 warrantyit would be denied. The reason, the spark plug is the causal part. Spark plugs are a maintenance item and covered by the 12month/12k warranty not the 3/36.

The two dealers I talked with around here are taking these on a case by case basis with their Ford rep. They also said if I were to come in and ask that my spark plugs be changed I would be responsible for any and all associated costs, as spark plug replacement is not covered under the 3/36.

Like I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't count on Ford for a lot of help on this. If your still low miles I would take the chance and pull them now. I think you have a better chance of getting your plugs out at 15k as opposed to 50k or 100k.

Edit: BUT, if your only going to keep this car a few years and less than 100k, don't worry about it, drive it, enjoy it and then TRADE IT! (on a 2010+);)

ok... so what is the verdict? I have a 05 gt with 23000 (and some change) miles on it... Should i change the plugs? Im very mechanically inclined, i always do my own work... IF i was to break one, would pulling the head be THAT bad? just a gasket to replace right? Anyways, should I do this this weekend?

It's something I may concider by 25K miles. You wouldn't have to pull the head. Rotunda does have the "tool" for $250 to remove the busted off part. Do what you think is best.

IMO, IF you arekeeping your car for several more years I would and follow the TSB procedure. If you break one, that removal tool that is mentioned in this thread does work a lot of the time, so that would be an option.

As for pulling the head, its work and remember this is an OHC engine, so you really need the cam tool to R&R the head safely.

Since I will be installing my supercharger myself and saw this thread I started getting a little concern reading this thread so I found that TSB I posted aboveat another forum.

I did a search on the Aerokroil mentioned in the TSB sounds like a very good product. I thought I would post this link as I thought it relatedand kind of funny :),but did read a lot of other very positivethings on this stuff so I am going to order a can.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-25453.html


I was at my Ford dealer today to order my GTA's ($299.00) and stopped at the service desk just to see what labor was for pulling the plugs and if they cover itif they break any orwould I have to pay.

My Car 06 GT


Labor 2 hrs $200.00 :)

I asked if they broke any would I have to pay?He asked how many miles I have and I have around 5K he said no problem I would not be charged if they broke any and he doesn't see a problem with only 5K.

He said if it was high mileage they wouldn't cover them but with 5k he said he wouldand said should not be a problem. So I asked for kickswould you put that in writing and he said yes.

So I guess it depends on the dealer and miles at least in my area.

Okay - this is right from the 2006 Ford Warranty:

EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE
During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:
• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

• your vehicle or engine is free from defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship that could prevent it from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.

• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of defective emissions-related parts listed under What is Covered?. (Spark plugs ARE listed under "What is Covered?")

So as I read this, I should not be charged to repair a defective spark plug. So, if I take my car in to have the plugs changed, and one or more breaks in the head due to carbon build-up (a Ford-acknowledged issue), then the spark plug is defective and should be repaired/replaced under the emmisions warranty.

Granted, the defect isn't apparent until the plug breaks, but once it does, the warranty should apply:

Diagnosis - carbon-fused spark plug resulting in breakage upon attempted removal
Repair - remove remaining plug parts with special tool.
Replace - new plugs.
The way I read it, and I don't see how it can be read another way, Ford HAS to pay for the repair if the plugs break as long as the car is within warranty.

I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform toEPA guidelines?

I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've runall thetests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."

Now I think there are a lot of dealers that will try and help customers by filing claims under the 8/80 when a plug breaks. It sucks that they are forced to go through the back door to get help.

It sounds as if you are not with the Service Department at a Ford Dealership. In that case, I agree with your position, but I think that if a Ford Service Department mechanic were to have this problem, especially while the drive train is still in warranty, Ford should and hopefully would step up and stand behind their product and service.

I'm just sick hearing about this. I own a 3v 5.4 in an F-150 and two 4.6 liter motors, one of which is a 3v in my new GT. What to do????

I don't mean to annoy anyone, just opining.

ORIGINAL: frd06GT

I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform toEPA guidelines?

I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've runall thetests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."


Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.

Pony,

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you. It really worries me as I have (2) 4.6's and a 5.4.

It may not be a good time to ask, but did the dealerever have anything to say about the installation of the MGW shifter with regard to how if at all it might affect the vehicle warranty? Just curious, as I am considering one for my new GT, and am wanting to avoid warranty issues. I think I know the answer, but am curious about your experience.

THX!,
cadillo

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: frd06GT

I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform toEPA guidelines?

I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've runall thetests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."


Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.


I agree and I think a lot of it will depend on the dealer to do the right thing in this situation.

ORIGINAL: richmod

Okay - this is right from the 2006 Ford Warranty:

EMISSIONS DEFECT WARRANTY COVERAGE
During the warranty coverage period, Ford Motor Company warrants that:
• your vehicle or engine is designed, built, and equipped to meet - at the time it is sold - the emissions regulations of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

• your vehicle or engine is free from defects in factory-supplied materials or workmanship that could prevent it from conforming with applicable EPA regulations.

• you will not be charged for diagnosis, repair, replacement, or adjustment of defective emissions-related parts listed under What is Covered?. (Spark plugs ARE listed under "What is Covered?")

So as I read this, I should not be charged to repair a defective spark plug. So, if I take my car in to have the plugs changed, and one or more breaks in the head due to carbon build-up (a Ford-acknowledged issue), then the spark plug is defective and should be repaired/replaced under the emmisions warranty.

Granted, the defect isn't apparent until the plug breaks, but once it does, the warranty should apply:

Diagnosis - carbon-fused spark plug resulting in breakage upon attempted removal
Repair - remove remaining plug parts with special tool.
Replace - new plugs.
The way I read it, and I don't see how it can be read another way, Ford HAS to pay for the repair if the plugs break as long as the car is within warranty.








Fair argument, but not one that would wash. Only if the plug is misfiring will they need to replace it. The way Ford sees it. if it ain't broke, why fix it? The plug isn't broke until a change is tried.

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: frd06GT

I think thats an excellent point. But won't a carbon fused still perform correctly and allow the engine to conform toEPA guidelines?

I can hear their argument being, "your plugs may or may not be fused, but we do know that we've runall thetests and your vehicle is currently performing within the emissions guidelines" "We can't attempt a warranty repair on something that isnt "broken"."


Everything you mentioned is true with regards to the Emissions Performance Warranty. But if you're in for routine maintenance (spark plug change), and the plug breaks, it broke because it was carbon-fused and thus defective, which falls under the Emissions Defect Warranty. As I see it, the only way around that would be for the dealer to refuse to change the spark plugs until the recommended 100K miles.











Exactly. If it is before 100K miles, they will say it isn't needed. Their covered unless something truely is wrong with a plug.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Exactly. If it is before 100K miles, they will say it isn't needed. Their covered unless something truely is wrong with a plug.

"I found this post on an F150 forum: Look when you take out your 1st plug{hopefully intact} look where the ground sheild meets the thread body if it is rusting or if the sheild spinns take your truck to the dealer. It is covered by warranty. This is not something i think. I know. I had mine replaced i can show you my work order. I havent been able to put pics in my gallery for a while now so i'll have to email it to you. Look in yourwarranty (http://www.ford-trucks.com/rx98192zju/kwldirect.php?kwid=446)book sparkplugs are covered."

Maybe that's the answer to getting this covered.

Goldenpony,

First let me say I'm sorry for your troubles - I can almost feel your pain. I love this car and I try to do the right thing by it. Nothing feels worse than trying to do things properly and preventatively and getting screwed for it. If it helps any, i appreciate your willingness to share your experience with us so that it may help us decide what directionwe wantto go.

And that is where I am at now. 24K miles and unsure what to do. Do I:

a) Attempt to remove them myself and risk breaking one?
b) Let the dealer do it and risk THEM breaking one at my expense?
c) Ignore them until 100K miles and hope that a better soultion or lawsuit comes along?

If your willng, some more info about your experience would really help. So, questions:

1) Did you use AeroKriol before initially loosening the plugs? If so, how long did you let it sit?
2) After the initial 1/8 - 1/4 turn, how long did you let the AeroKroil sit before attempting removal?
3) Did you use a torque wrench? A spark plug socket?
4) What's the breakdown of what the dealer charged you? In other words, how much was for the spark plug change and how much for the removal of the broken plugs? Did they charge you for the cost of the special removal tool? Any chance of copying the invoice and posting it, or just posting the info on it?

I'm hoping the answers will help me make a decision. Thanks in advance.

The two plug Wrenches I currently own don't even come close to fitting these plugs. Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what size I need? 2008 GT with 4.6 3V.

I want to pull them and install the anti-seize compound at least until I can replace them with the new Champions or other one piece units. Any advice appreciated!
THX!

I just ordered this one. SK 4419 3/8-Inch Drive 9/16-Inch Spark Plug Socket,
Specifically designed for use on 2004 Ford F-150 spark plugs , $12 shipped from Amazon.

Hope it works

I was just at the dealership this morning picking up my Mustang for a dead battery, rattles in the dash and the water leak up front. I asked about the spark plugs and they said it would be $200 to pull the plugs and put the anti-sieze compound on the plugs. I asked who would be responsible if one of the plugs broke when they were pulling them and he said it would depend on the mileage on the car. He didn't give a mileage in particular but said if the miles were low enough then when they called Ford about the broken plug they would then see if they would be covered in replacing the plug or not. I might take it back in a couple of weeks just to have them do it so I can replace the plugs at a later date without the worry of busting any. I'll be taking a chance on whether I have to pay for a broken plug or not.

Thanks. Let me know if it works. Also, what year is your engine? Hopefully the plugs are the same size as in my '08. I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs by asking, but yesterday I pulled the coil from one of my plugs and put a 9/16 deep well socket on it, and it was a sloppy fit, seemed way too loose. A 1/2 would not work, too small. Wish I had some metric deep wells just to check.

Again, please let me if the 9/16 works on your plugs.
THX!

Well, I finally made it to the dealer the other day to discuss the issue. As I figured, they had no real good answer. Remember, I have 4,800 miles on my car. Here's what I got in a nutshell:

1) They didn't know the 4.6L had this issue. They knew about the 5.4L.
2) If I did it myself, it would obviously be on my dime to fix.
3) Ford sees it as a normal wear part, so they don't warranty them.
4) They didn't know about the nickel anti-sieze stuff.
5) They really wouldn't say they would cover it even if I had them do the change now.
6) They claim that using the recommended proceedure (I told them I saw the video), they rarely have issues.
7) In parting, they gave my Ford's customer care number and said if I were going to pull and put the anti-sieze on now, they agreed now would be the time do it.

No answers fullfilled.

Moderators, I'm curious. Does this forum have the ability to take polls? I'd be curious to see many of us have changed plugs, how many changed them successfully and how many broke the plugs. On the broken plugs it would be nice to know the year of the car, the mileage when the plug broke and how many plugs were broken. This is definitely a real problem but I wonder how often it really happens...

ORIGINAL: ziperhead

I just ordered this one. SK 4419 3/8-Inch Drive 9/16-Inch Spark Plug Socket,
Specifically designed for use on 2004 Ford F-150 spark plugs , $12 shipped from Amazon.

Hope it works


Thanks for that info just ordered it along with Aero kroil.

http://www.amazon.com/SK-8-Inch-Drive-16-Inch-Socket/dp/B0009WRL6A

Aero kroil

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&viewitem=&ite m=170155007722&_trksid=p3907.m29

I have a 2005 Mustang GT with 8,000 miles and just had the plugs replaced. I talked to the guy who did the work yesterday and asked him some questions about the removal. Well, first off he had no idea about the problems these cars have been having with plug's breaking. He tells me this after he already pulled all the plugs out.[&:] Anyways, I asked him if he had any difficulty getting them out and he said none at all. He didn't use anything but a socket to remove them. He said they were tight but came right out. He did apply anti-seize to the new plugs before he installed them.

So my recommendation to others is to get them out while your car has low mileage especially if you plan on keeping it for awhile. I don't ever plan on getting rid of mine so I figured I better get this taken care of now versus later when I could have a major headache awaiting me.

exactly



ORIGINAL: abrush

So my recommendation to others is to get them out while your car has low mileage

My car has 33,500 miles...dang. I better get that aerokroil stuff. :D

and a 9/16" plug socket, some nickel anti-seize, a copy of the TSB. I'd also think seriousley about the new Champion one piece double platinum plugs.

I have 70K miles on my 06, so I decided to take care of the plugs today. I used Sea Foam Deep Creep and followed the directions forplug removal. Once you back the plugs off 1/4 turn and cover the sparkplug hex nut with lubricant, you can seebubbles from the lubricant working its way down the plug.Although the TSB says 5-10 minutes, I let it soak at least 20 minutes each plug. All of them cameout without breaking, although on one plug, the sheild was loose (I replaced it with an Autolite). It wasn't that bad of a chore. Although I have to admit, when you take that first 1/4 turn, you can hear and feel a crackling sound - like when you get a wisdom tooth pulled. Oh ya, all of them had quite a bit of carbon build up, but the Deep Creep I used turned it to a pasty subtance that I could wipe off with a rag.

I looked up the one piece Champion plugs at Championsparkplugs.comfor our cars and for all eight they want $152!!!! Wow! But if that would help prevent the chance of the not breaking by even 5% I think it would be plenty worth it for me. So I think Im probably gonna look into it a little more and see if there cheaper somewhere else. Also, I noticed on a bottle of Sea Foam that when you and it to your fuel its suspose to "clean carbon as you drive" so maybe it might help everyone who has high mileage I dont know though just a thought. I also got to thinking more about the plugs change myself when I read what kcmarti said about how the deep creep turn the carbon to just paste.

ORIGINAL: kcmarti

I have 70K miles on my 06, so I decided to take care of the plugs today. I used Sea Foam Deep Creep and followed the directions forplug removal. Once you back the plugs off 1/4 turn and cover the sparkplug hex nut with lubricant, you can seebubbles from the lubricant working its way down the plug.Although the TSB says 5-10 minutes, I let it soak at least 20 minutes each plug. All of them cameout without breaking, although on one plug, the sheild was loose (I replaced it with an Autolite). It wasn't that bad of a chore. Although I have to admit, when you take that first 1/4 turn, you can hear and feel a crackling sound - like when you get a wisdom tooth pulled. Oh ya, all of them had quite a bit of carbon build up, but the Deep Creep I used turned it to a pasty subtance that I could wipe off with a rag.




Congrats kcmarti, sounds like you dodged a bullet on the plug with the loose shield. Hopefully you used the nickel anti-seize on the new plugs when you re-installed them. So you used Autolite HT's?

+1

It's Ford's vehicle!

ORIGINAL: CBSTANG

I understand what your saying SCCAGT but I do not fully agree with you. I mean if I take my car to a Ford "certified" technician that has all the training and specialty tools for such an event as a spark plug breaking off then I believe they should have to make good on the fact that they are suppose to represent the Ford Motor Co. name, even if your warranty is up. I bet if they were cool enough technicians they could probably even help you out and bill at least some of it as being under warranty even its not. But if they did warn me about the possible outcome of the situation andit came down to me actually having to pay to get it fixed, then I sure as hell would not pay $2000 for them just to take the head off pop a couple pieces of spark plugs out and put it back on. I mean that is a down right ridiculous amount of money for some f@#ked up spark plugs. I would definitely become proficient when it came to removing and installing my own heads.

So does anyone know the details about the champion plugs because I have looked everywhere and I cannnot find anything specific to the design, just that they are "enhanced over OE design". I would really like to know the differences. I mean I get that they are suspose to be one-piece but I still would like to know about how they went about making them one-piece. I think that I read somewhere the the OE plugs just have the shield crimped on, so it would make sense that if the Champions are a machined one-piece that they would be so damn expensive.

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

ORIGINAL: kcmarti

I have 70K miles on my 06, so I decided to take care of the plugs today. I used Sea Foam Deep Creep and followed the directions forplug removal. Once you back the plugs off 1/4 turn and cover the sparkplug hex nut with lubricant, you can seebubbles from the lubricant working its way down the plug.Although the TSB says 5-10 minutes, I let it soak at least 20 minutes each plug. All of them cameout without breaking, although on one plug, the sheild was loose (I replaced it with an Autolite). It wasn't that bad of a chore. Although I have to admit, when you take that first 1/4 turn, you can hear and feel a crackling sound - like when you get a wisdom tooth pulled. Oh ya, all of them had quite a bit of carbon build up, but the Deep Creep I used turned it to a pasty subtance that I could wipe off with a rag.




Congrats kcmarti, sounds like you dodged a bullet on the plug with the loose shield. Hopefully you used the nickel anti-seize on the new plugs when you re-installed them. So you used Autolite HT's?


I dodged the "sparkplug broke off in the head" bullet. But found out today that two additional plugs, while not visually damaged (nor could I twist the heat sheild like on the one I replaced) were not working correctly - it felt like I was running on 6-7 cylinders and kept getting P0353 and P0354 codes. So I replaced all the plugs ( and yes I did use the anti-seize as advised) and now everything is back to normal.

ORIGINAL: CBSTANG

So does anyone know the details about the champion plugs because I have looked everywhere and I cannnot find anything specific to the design, just that they are "enhanced over OE design". I would really like to know the differences. I mean I get that they are suspose to be one-piece but I still would like to know about how they went about making them one-piece. I think that I read somewhere the the OE plugs just have the shield crimped on, so it would make sense that if the Champions are a machined one-piece that they would be so damn expensive.


The Champions are indeed one peice and more expensive. They (Pep Boy, Advanced Auto, and AutoZone) now have them lsted in their computers for $16.98 each - compared to $10.98 and $11.98 for the Autolite Platinum and Double Platinum. Only Pep Boys could order, but that would have been a weeks wait and my GT is my DD.

ORIGINAL: kcmarti

ORIGINAL: CBSTANG

So does anyone know the details about the champion plugs because I have looked everywhere and I cannnot find anything specific to the design, just that they are "enhanced over OE design". I would really like to know the differences. I mean I get that they are suspose to be one-piece but I still would like to know about how they went about making them one-piece. I think that I read somewhere the the OE plugs just have the shield crimped on, so it would make sense that if the Champions are a machined one-piece that they would be so damn expensive.


The Champions are indeed one peice and more expensive. They (Pep Boy, Advanced Auto, and AutoZone) now have them lsted in their computers for $16.98 each - compared to $10.98 and $11.98 for the Autolite Platinum and Double Platinum. Only Pep Boys could order, but that would have been a weeks wait and my GT is my DD.


Consider yourself lucky. I went to Pep Boys and they could not tell what plugs of ANY BRAND would fit my '08 GT. Time to punt I thought, so I went to the dealership. They also could not tell me what plugs were correct for the '08 GT. Nothing yet in the computer, but PROBABLY the same plugs as the '07, but just an educated guess. They then tried to sell me a set of the Motorcraft SP-462's, which fit the '07 and will probably turn out to be correct for the '08 as well, but at $16.80 each, I chose to seek my fortunes elsewhere.

What a predicament, my new car has less than 300 miles on the clock, and it's covered up in the garage because I'm afraid to drive it until I can pull the f!@#$%^& plugs and install a new set with antisieze because of a design flaw. I've bought seven(7) new Ford vehicles in my lifetime and still own three of them, two of which are 3V's. After today I'm considering trading them all in on a couple of MOPAR's, a place I've never been before, but it couldn't be worse than this Clusterf@#$!

Looks like there is a revised TSB for plug removal (superseeds TSB 06-15-2):

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/0819.pdf

Apparently Carburetor Cleaner is now specified instead of Aerokroil and the engine
is to be at room temperature (instead of warm).

Havea setof the new Champion plugson order and will use this revised TSB. I only have 11,000 miles on
my '06 so I am hoping plug change will be uneventful.

good info, thanks Kryten

ORIGINAL: cadillo
They then tried to sell me a set of the Motorcraft SP-462's, which fit the '07 and will probably turn out to be correct for the '08 as well, but at $16.80 each, I chose to seek my fortunes elsewhere.

Advance Auto Parts has the Motorcraft SP-462's for about $7 each. I just bought 8 of them for about $56. I'm not using anything that isn't factory recommended while I'm in warranty.

ORIGINAL: Kryten
... and the engine is to be at room temperature (instead of warm).


Ahh, don't tell me I have to bring the car inside the house now...lol. [sm=smiley36.gif]

ORIGINAL: Kryten

Looks like there is a revised TSB for plug removal (superseeds TSB 06-15-2):

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/0819.pdf

Apparently Carburetor Cleaner is now specified instead of Aerokroil and the engine
is to be at room temperature (instead of warm).

Havea setof the new Champion plugson order and will use this revised TSB. I only have 11,000 miles on
my '06 so I am hoping plug change will be uneventful.




Probably folks were locking the engine with the other stuff. Carb cleaner goes down easy.






********Another thing worth mentioning is that the TSB is for engines built BEFORE 10-07 which suggests anti seize was used on newer engines*****************

I feel a lot more comfortable with the instructions in this revised TSB. Wasn't thrilled previously with soaking the plugs
with Aerokroil and taking the change of it possibly screwing up the engine. Carb clean, hey no problem.

I am though uncertain about the required gap. On the sparkplugs.com site, they list an OE gap of .045" for the Autolite plugand .054" for the new Champion plug. I guess I wouldhave thought thata gap for a particular application would be exactly the same for any manufacturer's plug listed for that application.I am assuming this thinking is incorrectand that I should use the listed.054 gap on the Champion plugs.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

ORIGINAL: Kryten

Looks like there is a revised TSB for plug removal (superseeds TSB 06-15-2):

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/0819.pdf

Apparently Carburetor Cleaner is now specified instead of Aerokroil and the engine
is to be at room temperature (instead of warm).

Havea setof the new Champion plugson order and will use this revised TSB. I only have 11,000 miles on
my '06 so I am hoping plug change will be uneventful.




Probably folks were locking the engine with the other stuff. Carb cleaner goes down easy.






********Another thing worth mentioning is that the TSB is for engines built BEFORE 10-07 which suggests anti seize was used on newer engines*****************

ORIGINAL: Kryten

I feel a lot more comfortable with the instructions in this revised TSB. Wasn't thrilled previously with soaking the plugs
with Aerokroil and taking the change of it possibly screwing up the engine. Carb clean, hey no problem.

I am though uncertain about the required gap. On the sparkplugs.com site, they list an OE gap of .045" for the Autolite plugand .054" for the new Champion plug. I guess I wouldhave thought thata gap for a particular application would be exactly the same for any manufacturer's plug listed for that application.I am assuming this thinking is incorrectand that I should use the listed.054 gap on the Champion plugs.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

ORIGINAL: Kryten

Looks like there is a revised TSB for plug removal (superseeds TSB 06-15-2):

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/tsb/0819.pdf

Apparently Carburetor Cleaner is now specified instead of Aerokroil and the engine
is to be at room temperature (instead of warm).

Havea setof the new Champion plugson order and will use this revised TSB. I only have 11,000 miles on
my '06 so I am hoping plug change will be uneventful.




Probably folks were locking the engine with the other stuff. Carb cleaner goes down easy.






********Another thing worth mentioning is that the TSB is for engines built BEFORE 10-07 which suggests anti seize was used on newer engines*****************




Thanks for the info. Be sure and let us know how those Champions work. A lot of us are considering them next plug change. As for gap, I'd use whatever it says in the owners manual, regardless of the brand. Good luck buddy!

I put this in the other thread about changing plugs, but thought I would add it here since this thread is staying on top. Its been my experience at my shop, along with other shops, that Champions do not work well in Fords. I dont have a clue as to why, I mean jeez, its just a plug.But the several times I used Champions, all came back about 2-3 months later with misfires. Found out after that, it is a common occurance. I no longer use Champions in Fords. If this plug does not do that, great. That means we have a better designed replacement plug for our cars. All I know is, they wont be going in my Stang until many others have proven otherwise. Sorry if it seems I am smashing everyones hope over this. I honestly hope they work well.

As far as worrying about hydrolocking using certain penetrants, you can always give the car a turn of the key without plugs installed, and whatever fluid is in the cylinders will come out.

ORIGINAL: SCCAGT
As far as worrying about hydrolocking using certain penetrants, you can always give the car a turn of the key without plugs installed, and whatever fluid is in the cylinders will come out.

I've read that before, but for some reason it scares me. It's safe to do that? How long should I turn the key for? The fluids will come out of the spark plug hole?

Yes, the fluid will come out, but you need to pull the fuel pump fuse before hand. It won't take more than a second of cranking the engine to clear the cylinder. It really takes more than you would think. 1/2 teaspoon is completely safe. Someone who has a 10-07 or later engine build needs to chime in and tell us if they have anti seize on their stock plugs.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Yes, the fluid will come out, but you need to pull the fuel pump fuse before hand. It won't take more than a second of cranking the engine to clear the cylinder. It really takes more than you would think. 1/2 teaspoon is completely safe. Someone who has a 10-07 or later engine build needs to chime in and tell us if they have anti seize on their stock plugs.

Thanks for the info.

1/2 teaspoon doesn't sound like much. If you soak each spark plug up to the hex nut, that seems like significantly more than 1/2 teaspoon. AmI just being paranoid?I was gonna use PB Blaster - should I use the carb cleaner instead? I'm just concerned that it won't work as well as the PB Blaster.

I'll certainly pass on my experience with the Champions once installed. It seems on the surface anyway that Champion has spent some time in the design of these new plugs to address the design defects of the current plug design. Between our cars and the F-series, Sport Tracs, we are talking about a boatload of possible sales if these plugs are a magic bullet. I am hoping that these plugs do the trick and function as well as they look. I've read apost thata particularFord dealership has recently bought up a initial shipment of 192 Champion plugs before the shipment even reached the retail stores. Apparently that dealership alsothink that these plugsmight work and work well. If they are willing to try these plugs out, so am I. A Ford dealership buying Champions when they carry and sell Motorcraft plugs further highlights the magnitude of the problem to me.

Fingers crossed.

Goldenpony: Thanks a bunch for posting your experience and bringing this problem out in the open. I was planningprior to leave my factory plugs in until 60,000 miles.Many of us willdefinitely benefitfrom this warning, I'm sure. Hate the problem, but still love my car.

ORIGINAL: SCCAGT

I put this in the other thread about changing plugs, but thought I would add it here since this thread is staying on top. Its been my experience at my shop, along with other shops, that Champions do not work well in Fords. I dont have a clue as to why, I mean jeez, its just a plug.But the several times I used Champions, all came back about 2-3 months later with misfires. Found out after that, it is a common occurance. I no longer use Champions in Fords. If this plug does not do that, great. That means we have a better designed replacement plug for our cars. All I know is, they wont be going in my Stang until many others have proven otherwise. Sorry if it seems I am smashing everyones hope over this. I honestly hope they work well.

As far as worrying about hydrolocking using certain penetrants, you can always give the car a turn of the key without plugs installed, and whatever fluid is in the cylinders will come out.

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Yes, the fluid will come out, but you need to pull the fuel pump fuse before hand. It won't take more than a second of cranking the engine to clear the cylinder. It really takes more than you would think. 1/2 teaspoon is completely safe. Someone who has a 10-07 or later engine build needs to chime in and tell us if they have anti seize on their stock plugs.

Thanks for the info.

1/2 teaspoon doesn't sound like much. If you soak each spark plug up to the hex nut, that seems like significantly more than 1/2 teaspoon. AmI just being paranoid?I was gonna use PB Blaster - should I use the carb cleaner instead? I'm just concerned that it won't work as well as the PB Blaster.







I'd stick with the carb cleaner. I'm sure Ford tried many different solvents/lubricants and they have found that trying to disolve and break up the carbon is better than trying to lube it.

Reading this thread with a heavy heart. It's my 1st Ford product! JUST GREAT...

How would a person find out when the engine was built? If the new revised TSB was for engines made before 10-07 I would like to find out, I ordered my mustang in late Nov & took delivery in late Jan.

Gotta be a way of finding out but I'm not the one to ask. Quickest way is to pull one plug and see if it has anti seize. Iwishmine was built in 3/08 instead of 3/07.

Most likly the best way. My luck would be that I pop it trying it on that one plug! :D

Should I be so anal as to use Motorcraft Carb Cleaner per the TSB, or should any old carb cleaner work?

ORIGINAL: richmod

Should I be so anal as to use Motorcraft Carb Cleaner per the TSB, or should any old carb cleaner work?


I wouldn't sweat it. Just go get a spray can of carb cleaner at your FLAPS (Favorite Local Auto Parts Store). I've used CRC brand carb and throttle body cleaners before with good luck, so if you see that on the shelf go for it.

Just ordered a set of the Champion plugs today and I'm going to follow TSB 08-1-9 next week after I change my oil. It'll be 12,000 miles so I'm hoping I won't have any issues.

Damn.....i wish i had known about this earlier......car now has 50k. Guess i will be going to the dealer to see about taking care of the problem and how much mybit** is going to cost me!

Well fellow Mustangers, I have some positive news concerning this whole ugly experience. To bring you all up to speed, I had contacted Ford when I was charged $611.13 to remove 6 broken spark plugs and install a new set. I had broken 1 and had the car taken to the dealer where 5 more were broken off by their tech. I also wrote the President of the dealership (Beechmont Ford in Cincinnati, Ohio).
I was back to the dealership today for the recent recall for the passenger air bag. While I was waiting, the head service manager came to me and presented me with a check for the full amount of the repair. As I understand it, Ford had authorized the refund. From what the service manager told me, Ford knows they have a serious problem here. I am happy to report my faith is restored, both in my dealer, and The Ford Motor Company. My Mustang and it's owner are happy again. I plan to replace these new plugs (installed with anti-seize) in a year with the new Champions. Sometimes it pays to be a squeeky wheel. Best of luck guys.

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

Well fellow Mustangers, I have some positive news concerning this whole ugly experience. To bring you all up to speed, I had contacted Ford when I was charged $611.13 to remove 6 broken spark plugs and install a new set. I had broken 1 and had the car taken to the dealer where 5 more were broken off by their tech. I also wrote the President of the dealership (Beechmont Ford in Cincinnati, Ohio).
I was back to the dealership today for the recent recall for the passenger air bag. While I was waiting, the head service manager came to me and presented me with a check for the full amount of the repair. As I understand it, Ford had authorized the refund. From what the service manager told me, Ford knows they have a serious problem here. I am happy to report my faith is restored, both in my dealer, and The Ford Motor Company. My Mustang and it's owner are happy again. I plan to replace these new plugs (installed with anti-seize) in a year with the new Champions. Sometimes it pays to be a squeeky wheel. Best of luck guys.

Dude, that is awseome! I am truly happy for you - I could really feel your pain when that whole mess happened. Consider it your reward for sharing your experience and trying to help your fellow stang owners. In fact, I plan on printing your last post and taking it to my service tech in an effort to get the dealer to commit to covering the costs if they break the plugs.

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: cadillo
They then tried to sell me a set of the Motorcraft SP-462's, which fit the '07 and will probably turn out to be correct for the '08 as well, but at $16.80 each, I chose to seek my fortunes elsewhere.

Advance Auto Parts has the Motorcraft SP-462's for about $7 each. I just bought 8 of them for about $56. I'm not using anything that isn't factory recommended while I'm in warranty.


Thanks! I stopped by, and they sold me a set at that price. They'll be there tomorrow morning. Thought I would change them out tomorrow, but as luck would have it, the garage door did a melt down this evening, off the tracks and cables unspooled. I can't even close the door. It's hopelessly jammed halfway up.Sleeping in the garage tonight to protect the tools from thePhillistines until I can get someone who knows what to do tomorrow. Such is the price of ownership.

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

Well fellow Mustangers, I have some positive news concerning this whole ugly experience. To bring you all up to speed, I had contacted Ford when I was charged $611.13 to remove 6 broken spark plugs and install a new set. I had broken 1 and had the car taken to the dealer where 5 more were broken off by their tech. I also wrote the President of the dealership (Beechmont Ford in Cincinnati, Ohio).
I was back to the dealership today for the recent recall for the passenger air bag. While I was waiting, the head service manager came to me and presented me with a check for the full amount of the repair. As I understand it, Ford had authorized the refund. From what the service manager told me, Ford knows they have a serious problem here. I am happy to report my faith is restored, both in my dealer, and The Ford Motor Company. My Mustang and it's owner are happy again. I plan to replace these new plugs (installed with anti-seize) in a year with the new Champions. Sometimes it pays to be a squeeky wheel. Best of luck guys.

Congrats on your full refund!
Complaining to the proper peoplein a civil manner can produce positive results at times.

OK! Thanks to all the good information I was able to get from this forum, I changed out my plugs today. First let me say that as my car is very new, I had no problems, but I tried to prepare myself as if I would encounter some of the troubles encountered by others who post here. I believe that their descriptions of their experiences, as well as their recommendations helped me quite a bit. Now to the story.

My GT is a 2008. It has less than 300 miles on the odometer, so it's not hard to guess that I didn't have a problem with carbon buildup. Per the latest TSB that someone posted here, I started with a cold engine, broke the plugs loose by about a quarter turn and then soaked the plugs for twenty minutes with the Motorcraft Carburator cleaner as recommended in the TSB.

The plugs broke loose very easily except for the last one, which managed to make me more than a little nervous, but once it broke, all went smoothly. The stock plugs were SP-462's, and there was no antisieze compound on them, so don't assume that the factory is using it.

The Motorcraft Carburator cleaner is not like the other carburators cleaners I've used. It is not an aerosol, and more importantly, it is a very light oil, but much more viscous than Kroil. It wicked all the way to the electrodes of the plugs, and converted the small amount of carbon on the plugs to black oil. I love Kroil and use it for many things including gun cleaning, but I can assure everyone that it does not dissolve carbon the way this product does. The carbonwas completely liquified, and the oil is in fact a lubricant in addition to having the ability to dissolve the carbon deposits. I do not believe that regular carburator cleaner would work as well as this product for this particular application as it is more a solvent than an oil.

Thanks to one of the members here, I was able to find a new set of Motorcraft SP-462's at Advance Auto parts for less than half of what the dealership quoted me. I lubed the ground shields with Permatex Antisieze compound and put them in, and then started the engine, which runs just fine. The only problem I have now is deciding how often I need to pull, clean, and coat them in the future.

I was really worried about this situation, but all is now well. Thanks a million to all those who shared their experiences and knowledge on this subject, and I wish the best to all who are faced with this frustrating dilemma.

ORIGINAL: cadillo

OK! Thanks to all the good information I was able to get from this forum, I changed out my plugs today. First let me say that as my car is very new, I had no problems, but I tried to prepare myself as if I would encounter some of the troubles encountered by others who post here. I believe that their descriptions of their experiences, as well as their recommendations helped me quite a bit. Now to the story.

My GT is a 2008. It has less than 300 miles on the odometer, so it's not hard to guess that I didn't have a problem with carbon buildup. Per the latest TSB that someone posted here, I started with a cold engine, broke the plugs loose by about a quarter turn and then soaked the plugs for twenty minutes with the Motorcraft Carburator cleaner as recommended in the TSB.

The plugs broke loose very easily except for the last one, which managed to make me more than a little nervous, but once it broke, all went smoothly. The stock plugs were SP-462's, and there was no antisieze compound on them, so don't assume that the factory is using it.

The Motorcraft Carburator cleaner is not like the other carburators cleaners I've used. It is not an aerosol, and more importantly, it is a very light oil, but much more viscous than Kroil. It wicked all the way to the electrodes of the plugs, and converted the small amount of carbon on the plugs to black oil. I love Kroil and use it for many things including gun cleaning, but I can assure everyone that it does not dissolve carbon the way this product does. The carbonwas completely liquified, and the oil is in fact a lubricant in addition to having the ability to dissolve the carbon deposits. I do not believe that regular carburator cleaner would work as well as this product for this particular application as it is more a solvent than an oil.

Thanks to one of the members here, I was able to find a new set of Motorcraft SP-462's at Advance Auto parts for less than half of what the dealership quoted me. I lubed the ground shields with Permatex Antisieze compound and put them in, and then started the engine, which runs just fine. The only problem I have now is deciding how often I need to pull, clean, and coat them in the future.

I was really worried about this situation, but all is now well. Thanks a million to all those who shared their experiences and knowledge on this subject, and I wish the best to all who are faced with this frustrating dilemma.

Thanks for that write-up. You've convinced me to get the Motorcraft Carb Cleaner and take back the PB Blaster. Wondering - if it's not an aerosol, how do you apply it to the plugs in the well?

I have a set of measuring spoons that I use in the garage/shop for various non-cooking chores. I used the one teaspoon size spoon and filled it 3/4 full then just dumped it down the plug hole after breakking it 1/4 turn. Next time I will use the 1/2 teaspoon size, as the 3/4 tsp I used easily wicked all the way to the electrode and seemed to be a bit too much. Good Luck.

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

Well fellow Mustangers, I have some positive news concerning this whole ugly experience. To bring you all up to speed, I had contacted Ford when I was charged $611.13 to remove 6 broken spark plugs and install a new set. I had broken 1 and had the car taken to the dealer where 5 more were broken off by their tech. I also wrote the President of the dealership (Beechmont Ford in Cincinnati, Ohio).
I was back to the dealership today for the recent recall for the passenger air bag. While I was waiting, the head service manager came to me and presented me with a check for the full amount of the repair. As I understand it, Ford had authorized the refund. From what the service manager told me, Ford knows they have a serious problem here. I am happy to report my faith is restored, both in my dealer, and The Ford Motor Company. My Mustang and it's owner are happy again. I plan to replace these new plugs (installed with anti-seize) in a year with the new Champions. Sometimes it pays to be a squeeky wheel. Best of luck guys.


That is great news, I'm really glad for you!! That is exactly what I think Ford should do for everyone the first time thatthis problem happens (even though I know better). I wouldn't know any other way to run a business than to take care of your customers IMO.Maybe they should think about that a little more when they try to come up with ideas to overthrow toyota.

Doing this plug change per latest TSB tomorrow a.m. Pray for me as my car has 110,000 on it.

i would, but i don't think prayers will
help at all in this situation. i'll be
amazed but also happy for you, if they
all come out intact.

if one or more should break, are you prepared to deal
with that in your garage





ORIGINAL: wasvette

Doing this plug change per latest TSB tomorrow a.m. Pray for me as my car has 110,000 on it.

Hammeron - I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't pretty much...if the dealer breaks one I'll get charged the same. If any of them break, I have 2 options: Have the car towed to our mechanic who said he'd work with me if this happened OR have it towed to the dealer...pay...then raise cane with Ford. I have the Motocraft carb cleaner and anti-seize in hand ready to go when the engine is cold tomorrow.

ORIGINAL: hammeron

i would, but i don't think prayers will
help at all in this situation. i'll be
amazed but also happy for you, if they
all come out intact.

if one or more should break, are you prepared to deal
with that in your garage





ORIGINAL: wasvette

Doing this plug change per latest TSB tomorrow a.m. Pray for me as my car has 110,000 on it.

we'll keep our fingers crossed
and hope for the best, but we're
prepared for the worst


let us know how it turns out

Well...25 minutes to d-day. Just pulled the coils, 1/8 turned each plug (one felt loose or it's already broken), and put 3/4 teaspoon of Motorcraft carb cleaner...see pics. I used a syringe to get the carb cleaner down in the plug well without spilling it..............WILL THESE PLUGS COME OUT WITH OVER 110,000 MILES?? ONLY TIME WILL TELL....

local://upfiles/55848/B6A5AF49981B4EF4A513E3C4E91006BA.jpg

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Subscribing...mine has 96000 miles on the original plugs and I too need to do this.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO TOW NECESSARY:D TALK ABOUT SWEATING BULLETS:(. ALL PLUGS ARE OUT WITH NO BREAKS. PRAYER DOES WORK. SO THE WHOLE JOB COST WAS $70 TOTAL(HT1 PLUGS $46 SHIPPED ON EBAY AND THE MOTORCRAFT CARB CLEANER + ANTISEIZE WAS $24 AT THE DEALER). THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE PAVED THE WAY.


HERE'S THE PROCEDURE I USED:

DEAD COLD ENGINE
3/4 TEASPOON MOTORCRAFT CARB CLEANER USING SYRINGE IN EACH PLUG WELL AFTER LOOSENING 1/8TH TURN
LET WICK DOWN FOR 30 MINUTES
TURN ANOTHER 1/8TH TURN; WAITED ANOTHER 30 MINUTES TO WICK DOWN
USED SAME SYRINGE TO DRAW EXCESS FLUID OUT OF PLUG WELL TO AVOID ANY MORE THAN NECESSARY GOING INTO THE CYLINDER
REMOVE PLUGS VERY METHODICALLY - IF ANY NOTICEABLE RESISTANCE, REVERSE AND TIGHTEN 1/4 TURN, THEN BEGIN LOSSENING AGAIN.

As they say where I come from wasvette, PRAISE THE GOOD LORD!! I'm happy for ya bro! I'll be doing my Whipple install next week so I'll be on egg shells til all 8 of these things are out in one piecehopefully.

excellent news!

glad it worked out well

God doesn't care if the plugs break. He has bigger fish to fry. What gas have you been burning and what was the condition of the plugs? What mpg were you getting? Could you have gone longer than 110,000 miles?

AMEN ACLASS - PIC OF PLUGS HERE SHOWS THAT 6 GOT SOAKED BUT 2 (UPPER RIGHT) DIDN'T EVEN GET WET AFTER OVER 1 HOUR TOTAL OF ALLOWING CARB CLEANER TO WICK DOWN!

local://upfiles/55848/F674B8ABA58042B8B327CB3D9331C6FC.jpg

Those don't look any different than some I've seen changed at 25,000 miles. Good news for the rest of us. The 2 real clean ones may have let the cleaner go straight into the cylinder uncontested and evaporated after 1 hour.

Ford has had issues with their cylinder heads since they started using the OHC design.

It's no real surprise.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

God doesn't care if the plugs break. He has bigger fish to fry. What gas have you been burning and what was the condition of the plugs? What mpg were you getting? Could you have gone longer than 110,000 miles?


PLUGS LOOK GOOD TO ME...ONLY DIFFERENCE I CAN SEE IS THE ELECTRODE LOOKS A LITTLE LONGER ON THE NEW PLUGS. CAR RAN GREAT WITH OLD ONES. I RUN AMOCO/BP AND SHELL 93 OCTANE USUALLY AND GET ABOUT 24 ON THE HIGHWAY USUALLY. I THINK I COULD HAVE GONE LONGER BUT WANTED TO GET THIS OVER WITH...AND IT WAS ONLY $70.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Those don't look any different than some I've seen changed at 25,000 miles. Good news for the rest of us. The 2 real clean ones may have let the cleaner go straight into the cylinder uncontested and evaporated after 1 hour.



I DOUBT IT EVAPORATED BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. WHY WOULD IT EVAPORATE ON 2 AND NOT ON THE OTHER 6?

ORIGINAL: wasvette

..and put 3/4 teaspoon of Motorcraft carb cleaner...

On each plug or total?

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: wasvette

..and put 3/4 teaspoon of Motorcraft carb cleaner...

On each plug or total?


Richmod - EACH plug well...so 3/4 ts X 8 - The way I did it you could probably go 1 TS per because I used the syringe to draw out the remaining carb liquid around the plug prior to removing the plug.

ORIGINAL: wasvette

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Those don't look any different than some I've seen changed at 25,000 miles. Good news for the rest of us. The 2 real clean ones may have let the cleaner go straight into the cylinder uncontested and evaporated after 1 hour.



I DOUBT IT EVAPORATED BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. WHY WOULD IT EVAPORATE ON 2 AND NOT ON THE OTHER 6?









The carbon wicked it up and held it. On those 2 clean ones, nothing to stop it from going right on through the threads and down into the chamber.

HMMMM.....I have never heard of the plugs snapping in the 3v's then again I change my plugs every other week.

I have 3600 on the clock, '08 GT convert. My mechanic will give it a go. Might I ask what gap you are using, be it the champion plug or other.
Thanks
Bob

ORIGINAL: bobprivett

I have 3600 on the clock, '08 GT convert. My mechanic will give it a go. Might I ask what gap you are using, be it the champion plug or other.
Thanks
Bob


Bob - I'm using the Autolite HT-1 OE equivalent (I think). No gap necessary and it runs likes a scalded ape. I think the gapping thing is more relevant when you get into the FI set ups.

If you go with the HT-1, look around...

Dealer $17 per plug!
Advance $12 per plug
Ebay $40 + 6.50 ship for 8 plugs!!

Also, make sure you print the TSB for plug removal linked previously in this thread and take it to your mechanic.

When I did mine for my 07 Stang / Whipple install, took <20 lb-ft to remove them. I sprayed some Kroil in each spark-plug cavity before, but it wasn't required at all. Car had 16,000 miles on it.

Thanks for the info. TSB, video etc. are in hand.
Bob

I'll be waiting until the 100,000 mile mark (nearly 50,000 miles on the clock now). If I changed the plugs every 12,000 miles, I'd be doing it every 4 1/2months!Hell, these plugs + fuel injection + unleaded gas should equal very high mileage before a swap is necessary due to a drop in performance.After I swapped a new High Performance 350 into my 70 Chevelle in 1996 with HEI instead of points ignition, I easily ran 70,000 miles on regular AC R44TS plugs. The plug wires would have to be changed before the plugs! Of course, as with the GT, the Chevelle saw mostly high speed highway driving, everyday, since 1970. ;)These cars should do better, what with the better fuel delivery and ignition systems.

Remember, the plugs "wearing out" is not the question here, it's the plugs seizing in the head. You're 100% right, the engine will probably run great to 100,000 miles, but you will most likely have a tough time getting them (and the broken pieces) out. Your Chevelle never had plugs designed like this. It's apples and oranges. Anti-seize is a beautiful thing.

ORIGINAL: bobprivett

I have 3600 on the clock, '08 GT convert. My mechanic will give it a go. Might I ask what gap you are using, be it the champion plug or other.
Thanks
Bob

I was on another mustang forum and somebody with
an 08 GT pulled the the plugs and they are a new design,
looks like they tapped the head all the way down to
combustion chamber and the plugs are threaded the
full length, might want to wait before buying plugs.

I just changed all of mine yesterday. I have 43,000 miles on the originals. First I let the car sit overnight then I broke each plug loose and then retightened, then turned them out slowly. The plugs made a vibrating squeak which I feel either helped break the carbon loose or my plugs were not that bad. I had a flutter miss after installing the KB so I went to the HT0's and the car pulls hard all the way through with no miss now. Just my two cents.

ORIGINAL: td1320

I just changed all of mine yesterday. I have 43,000 miles on the originals. First I let the car sit overnight then I broke each plug loose and then retightened, then turned them out slowly. The plugs made a vibrating squeak which I feel either helped break the carbon loose or my plugs were not that bad. I had a flutter miss after installing the KB so I went to the HT0's and the car pulls hard all the way through with no miss now. Just my two cents.

Did you use penetrating oil or carb cleaner?

ORIGINAL: Goldenpony

Remember, the plugs "wearing out" is not the question here, it's the plugs seizing in the head. You're 100% right, the engine will probably run great to 100,000 miles, but you will most likely have a tough time getting them (and the broken pieces) out. Your Chevelle never had plugs designed like this. It's apples and oranges. Anti-seize is a beautiful thing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wont the anti-seize burn off from the heat?

ORIGINAL: r6allstar
Correct me if I am wrong, but wont the anti-seize burn off from the heat?


You're wrong. The antiseize required per the Ford TSB is "Nickel" antiseize. It will not burn off like copper or aluminum antiseize. Nickel will stand up to high combustion chamber temperature and pressure.

Well, I followed the TSB to a "T". I used the Motorcraft recommended carb cleaner and I let the plugs sit overnight after breaking them free a quarter turn. The results?....after 96,500 original miles and following the TSB...1 plug broke off in the head. I will be commenting in a separate thread on what exactly I did, but here's some pics...

Here's a link to my thread: http://www.mustangforums.com/m_4844059/tm.htm




local://upfiles/38521/9ADB670FB9274F488B8F67C15C719A14.jpg

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local://upfiles/38521/815BD21F78D344CE881F9F7DEEC63EA8.jpg

local://upfiles/38521/52BD19052E4E47D3BD030317B0C655C6.jpg

local://upfiles/38521/6CEEA6DDA1B94D07B551CD9C3AD7E00A.jpg

Sorry guys, but you can put ALL the anti seize you want on the threads, but that won't prevent the electrode shield from twisting off and remaining in the head. BUT, at least the plug will be easier to remove....once the shield snaps off. ;)This is a design flaw, plain and simple. As I said, I'll wait until I HAVE to change plugs and THEN deal with it. If the plugs sanp off, I'll pull the heads. No biggie.Rebuilt enough engines,tranny's and cars over the years not to sweat