Speaking just for myself, if the plugs offer any resistance when you remove them, I would replace them. I have read a couple of instances where somebody removed their plugs, cleaned them up, put on anti-seize (a MUST) and reinstalled them only to notice a miss. These plugs seek to be kind of fragile and don't like having torque when removed. Be careful NOT to get any anti-seize on the firing end, or on the threads. Just coat the lower cylinder looking thing, the ground electrode shield. Nickel anti-seize is what Ford recommends. Best of luck. I would follow the TSB to the letter.
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2006 Premium GT Convertible Screaming Yellow, Black Top Black Leather Interior Upgrade Pkg. 5 Speed Side Airbags 18" "Fanblade Wheels" Shaker 500 Audio System CORSA Performance exhaust Brenspeed 87 octane tune MGW Shifter
Motocraft decarb is the best you can buy, truly. This type of thing isn't even it's intended use
PB Blaster has always been a favorite of mine. I still use the crap out of it. Kroil is good too....but a little pricey. I would recommend using the specific stuff Ford lists. Likely they have proven that this stuff works better than other similar stuff. They didn't just grab something off the wall and say "yeah, uh. Use this".
The plug situation is unfortunate, yes. However, Goldenpony is not the only one to get assistance from big blue because of it. It is common for people with a history of buying Fords and who have frequent retail/maintenance repairs done at the same dealer to get help on repairs. It is even more common to have dealers you visit often help you out internally.
The reason this occurs less often in the 4.6 3v is because the engine operates at higher RPMs and is typically driven at lighter loads. The trucks are heavy, loaded and lugging in low RPMs. This causes carbon to accumulate faster than the previous circumstance.
Fuel quality has a LOT to do with this. It would likely not even be a problem with ideal quality gasoline. 93 octane will NOT prevent or lessen the chance of this happening. Good gas is good gas. High octane fuel is just a little less volatile. If anything it will faciliate carbon buildup.
There are tools (plural...one for the shank, one for the porcelin) available to prevent head removal. It is still expensive but head removal is not necessary. Anti sieze will only buy you a little extra time.... it should be done but it isn't a fix in a bottle.
There is no fix in a bottle. Ever. For anything. Only "band-aids". Kiss my arse if you disagree because you are wrong. Additives can be beneficial. But you can't unscrew a pregnant woman and you can't FIX a leak, slip, knock, smoke or tick with a bottle.
Saw a pic of the new 3 valve design for 09.... it has threads that go all the way down the shank of the plug. That should work. All aftermarket plugs are inferior unless you require a different heat range (there are three available in the Motocraft line) and...... are.........that's right - band aids if they claim to "resist the tendency to sieze".
Don't fix what aint broken for Christ's sake. Didn't any of you guys ever take apart something and fuk it up more than it was in the first place? I mean - I am a good mechanic but a man is still a man. Leave the damn plugs alone until they NEED to be replaced and by then you will be able to rent the damn plug tool at Autozone or something for a refundable deposit.....or at least buy it for a reasonable price.
Again - I agree that this problem could have been avoided from a manufacturing prespective, but if you have to drop $600 of YOUR money (not the money of the company that made your car) at 100,000 miles it isn't that big of a deal. Ask a mid 90's Dodge owner how much their transmission cost at 40k and 80k. Ask a Mitsubishi owner how much the headgasket in their little eclipse cost. Ask a GM 3.4L owner how much it cost to replace his engine at 50K because the camshaft broke. VW engines aint cheap either. Cars cost money to maintain. I have spent thousands on mine and just because a car was made in the 21st century doesn't mean it will last forever (or even until you have it paid off) before you are writing checks to keep it running. Sad. True.
Keep your paradigm clear: This car doesn't have a lot of issues. The ones it does have will likely all be repaired before it is out of B2B or service contract. The amount of money you will spend on repairs will likely not be great in comparison to the vehicle's worth.
< Message edited by 1990lxhatch -- 4/10/2008 6:44:55 PM >
I agree with you on the "dont fix it if it ain't broken"... Except for the new 1 piece plugs that Champion offers. If you make the switch early, follow the TSB and be careful, you can definitely avoid having trouble in the future. Putting in new 1 piece plugs and nickel anti-seize should definitely help keep this issue at bay. my .02
Anti sieze will only buy you a little extra time.... it should be done but it isn't a fix in a bottle.
There is no fix in a bottle. Ever. For anything. Only "band-aids". Kiss my arse if you disagree because you are wrong.
You don't know that for a fact. It's gonna take someone like myself who pulled the plugs at 96,000 miles and put factory plugs with antiseize on the shields back in another 100,000 miles to see if the antiseize truly works. Until then, your statement is just an opinion. And...I ain't gonna kiss your arse <---Ghey.
Maybe I DO know that for a fact. I know more about your car than you could ever guess, pal. Matter of fact, I know more about your car than I do my own. Excuse me for jumping in here and trying to give some good fact-based advice. Yeah, there are a few opinions in my previous post as well but I am not some google searching desk jockey with a knack for techy car stuff. And there are more OPINIONS than fact in this ten page thread anyhow so be careful before you get all "holier than thou". Diagnosing problems with YOUR car is what I do for a living. Except I give advice to the people to work on them and the people who produce them - not a bunch of laymen. You know dick about how much I know so be wise about what you say. Anti - sieze is good stuff. But you are WRONG if you think it will withstand the temps and pressures of a combustion chamber indefinitely. You can't rub a little on the side of your plug and expect it to be there 100k miles later. That whole plug shield is inside the combustion chamber. The carbon builds up there because exhaust gasses and liquid fuel gets trapped in that tiny little space. Putting anti - sieze will help keep the carbon from forming and also allow for lubricity should you need to remove the plug..... But it is not a FIX in a bottle and it WILL vaporize and eventually disappear. It is a band-aid. It will help, not resolve. If you want to put faith in snake oil and consider all additives and miracle products a godsend or mechanic in a bottle - YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE IGNORANT. More retail business for the rest of the shops out there!!!
While we are discussing my level of knowledge and how I just CANT know about your car because I don't own one....
Spend a little time talking with other (older) Mustang owners. There are more fist time Mustang buyers in the S197 market than ANY other model of Mustang produced. You are generally of a higher age and income level than previous models. You have higher expectations and spend more money on aesthetic mods than previous owners. You also tend to be the least technically knowledgeable about how your car operates. YES THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS (this means don't give me a smartass comeback about how "you know about cars and own a S197). There are people like that out there . MY argument is that for the MOST part - you are not as much of a "gear head" as.....say......Foxbody owners. Good? maybe. Bad? maybe.
Either way - if you want to assume and speculate about someone's competency based on their member stats and bodystyle preference - I could effectively say you are all a bunch of yuppie pricks more concerned with rims and body plastic than lateral g's and acceleration #'s.
But I really, really hope that isn't true. That's why I decided to jump into this thread (although about 9 pages too late) and comment on some of the obvious BS that some of you seem to have put faith in. Christ, if you dig deep enough - you might find that I am the guy who first brought the plug issue to this forum's attention more than a year ago. Matter of fact, I discussed a bunch of crap nobody knew about back then....Now I am the joe blow that doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about?????
BTW, the champion plug design looks good. I hadn't seen that before. Hopefully it works. Raises a few ?'s in my mind.......but if it doesn't cause driveability problems it seems to be a good product.
< Message edited by 1990lxhatch -- 4/11/2008 10:33:44 AM >
ORIGINAL: 1990lxhatch BTW, the champion plug design looks good. I hadn't seen that before. Hopefully it works. Raises a few ?'s in my mind.......but if it doesn't cause driveability problems it seems to be a good product.
Curious - what ?'s does it raise? I just ordered some, so just want to know what you're thinking. And BTW - I do remember when you first brought up the spark plug issue, so i'll give credit where credit is due there - thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Gee this sucks not i have a water catcher now the plugs break sweet!.I only have 7k on mines could I pull them out clean and throw some antiseaze on them and follow up every um oil change?!!!!!!!!
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Anti - sieze is good stuff. But you are WRONG if you think it will withstand the temps and pressures of a combustion chamber indefinitely. You can't rub a little on the side of your plug and expect it to be there 100k miles later.
So you're saying that this is factual because you have pulled nickel anti-sieze coated S197 spark plugs that have been run for 100K miles.
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2005 Mustang GT/Manual/C&L Street CAI/Doug's 93 Race Tune
That's correct. Except the vehicle wasn't a S197... It was a 5.4 3v. The plugs still came out with some level of difficulty although they did not break.
However, to support your argument... Penetrant and decarb was used to aid in removal so there is a slight possibility that the small amount of barely detectable anti sieze may have been washed away by the penetrant. I like to believe this is not the case because...well... if the anti sieze was the miracle you hoped it would be the penetrant wouldn't have been needed in the first place.
I have much more experience with anti sieze in it's conventional use (lug nuts, plug threads, chassis fasteners, wheel hub nuts, etc) and have found that it will wear off given time and the right environmental circumstances. If it will wear off the lug studs of my DD car in the few years it takes me to burn up a set of tires - odds are it will not withstand the cylinders of a lead-footed Mustang driver over the course of 100K miles.
That's correct. Except the vehicle wasn't a S197... It was a 5.4 3v. The plugs still came out with some level of difficulty although they did not break.
However, to support your argument... Penetrant and decarb was used to aid in removal so there is a slight possibility that the small amount of barely detectable anti sieze may have been washed away by the penetrant. I like to believe this is not the case because...well... if the anti sieze was the miracle you hoped it would be the penetrant wouldn't have been needed in the first place.
Then it's clearly evident that you cannot say for a fact that there was no anti-sieze remaining on the plugs. And since it's possible that some anti-sieze was remaining, then it's also possible that it facilitated the plugs' removal.
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2005 Mustang GT/Manual/C&L Street CAI/Doug's 93 Race Tune
Gee. You're right. It is much more likely that a little anti sieze lasted up to millions of explosions inside the combustion chamber and facilitated the removal more than the decarbonizing penetrant. How foolish of me!
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RE: Scary Plug Change - 
