End of the V-8? Ford bets on direct injection and turbos
The first automaker to put V-8s in popularly priced cars may be the first to take them away. Ford Motor Company is investing--big--into gas turbocharged direct-injection engines, says Derrick Kuzak, group vice president for global product development (Ford's Bob Lutz). Ford plans to build a half million vehicles per year with the engine technology in five years.Why GTDI, as Ford calls it? The technology was also formerly known as TwinForce, but Ford has renamed it EcoBoost. Beside better performance and fuel economy, "combined with downsizing engines, direct injection allows less turbo lag and higher compression for more boost," Kuzak explains. It produces better torque curves than diesels.And it's a substitute for cubic inches. A 2.0-liter GTDI can perform comparably with a 3.0-liter V-6 (which can generate as much as 275 horsepower and 280 lb-ft of torque, according to Ford) and add five mpg, per Kuzak. A 3.5-liter GTDI V-6 has a two-mpg advantage over a 4.6-liter V-8 and can see power numbers of 340 horsepower and over 340 lb-ft of torque. And the higher cost of GTDI pays off in better fuel economy (20-30 percent gains, according to Ford) much more quickly than with a hybrid or diesel.So is the V-8 dead? "I'm not sure," Kuzak replies. Ford will have to educate buyers that a GTDI V-6 can be torquier than a 4.6-liter V-8. One thing is certain: With the Energy Bill's higher CAFE standards, the V-8 will become more of a niche engine, more likely found only on low-volume sports cars, luxury sedans, and trucks.
I love how a small minority of eviromentalist wackos can control an entire country. There is something wrong with this world. Too bad Ford has to sell out it's good old american buyer to conform to this green fad. I know there are new laws coming into effect thanks to that ass bag Bush who claims to be an Republican. A real Conservative would have vetoed that energy bill. I still think Ford, Chevy, and Dodge should fight this energy bill in court. Not just lay down like a bunch of pansies. Thats how the eviromentalists get what they want. They just keeping suing untill they get their way.
Unfortunately for enthusiasts like us, most people are uninformed and ignorant so they are believing all this green propaganda. Someone needs to step up or our beloved muscle cars will be a thing or the past. God help us.
PS- suoperdave84, your car looks sick!
< Message edited by RedGTyl -- 1/8/2008 7:58:05 AM >
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Torch Red 2006 Mustang GT. 5-speed Manual MGW Short Throw Shifter C&L Intake with Brenspeed 91 octane tune Pypes Mid-Muffler System
I'm not completely sold on direct injection because I don't believe its actually been perfected enough yet...The mazdaspeed 6 I used to have was DI and it had serious tuning problems even from the factory...the car ran rich ALL the time and I saw really crappy fuel economy...
Posts: 666
Joined: 7/27/2006 From: Chicago (South Loop) Status: offline
what does this mean? the v-8 will die out in all of ford's lineup except the f-series trucks and the mustang. they will use this engine to replace it in other cars though, i.e. crown vic and other fleet cars, and also other cars that have needed a v-8 due to their weight but where buyers don't really care about the engine as long as it lets the car accelerate at a respectable rate. ford will not kill off their v-8 mustang for at least another 30 years...i'd bet anything on it. this engine will replace all the other v-8s wherever the consumers don't care about performance and just want a decent accelerating car (i.e. suv, ford explorer, crown vic, etc.).
i am fairly sure the mustang will be one of the last v-8 american cars on the planet...
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-john
2006 ford mustang gt coupe 5spd black on black, shaker 1000, IUP, 3.55 gears 100% stock!!! 13.498 in the 1/4
2003 s/c debadged pwp rsx-s 265whp/186wtq = ~302hp sold 7/25/06
If a 3.5-liter V6 can make 340hp and torque, what could a 4.0-liter V8 do? 380hp&tq? I would drive that, hell I would drive that V6.
With this new bill, big N/a V-8 are a dieing breed. Smaller F/I V-8 will survive for people like us that want V-8s and, mostly likely, have more power then our current engines. I bet the old push rod guys said that Modular engine would end the mustang too. (The engine did suck at first) lol
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2005 Mustang Gt 5spd with 4.10 Bama Racing Tune BBK CAI, JBA LT headers, BMR LCA&Panhardbar, cmcv, and Steeda UDP
Mkay, if the V8 is a niche engine, as they say, let it stay in the Mustang GT and the F-series trucks and let that be your niche. Throw the Ecoboost in the Fusion/Milan, the Focus, put one in a roadster to compete with the Miata, the Solstice/Sky, revitalize the Lincoln lineup sedans and put it in those so they can better compete with Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti, etc.. Just dont take the V8 out the Mustang and the F150 :(
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2006 Black GT Premium - Manual JLT CAI | BBK | Pypes H | Flowmasters | 93 Tune | BSM 10" Charcoal Stripes | Hood pins | 15% Tints
I think the V6 Mustang is going to pay the price. The CAFE numbers will force out the 4.0 V6 and possibly the 3.5 from most of Fords lineup. I Would expect to see is a gas guzzler tax on all V8 cars that do not meet a set MPG rating.
< Message edited by dferkler -- 1/8/2008 11:04:12 AM >
The reason I bought a mustang GT is its immense room to grow. A turbo charged low displacement engine that is already pushing the limitations of the stock motor doesn't have that room. I imagine there are plenty of people in the same position as me that would refuse to buy such a car. If I want a super fast stock car I'll buy a z06. I bought my Mustang so I could make it much faster at a great value without swapping the engine or running 30lbs of boost.
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2008 Vapor Silver GT Coupe C&L Intake w/ Bamachips 87 octane tune Spydershaft BMR Billet LCAs 3.73:1 Ring and Pinion
If I want a super fast stock car I'll buy a z06. I bought my Mustang so I could make it much faster at a great value without swapping the engine or running 30lbs of boost.
I don't know man, there's a big difference in price between the Z06 and the Stang. i feel your point on modability being a big fun factor for the Stang though. and I say this as someone who has dont nothing more than an axle back exhaust so far
mods will come in due time.
If any stang has alot of performance for the money, it will still be a viable product. the vast aftermarket for our crs will find a way to adapt to whatever ford throws out. I'm not gonna panic just yet
I love how a small minority of eviromentalist wackos can control an entire country. There is something wrong with this world. Too bad Ford has to sell out it's good old american buyer to conform to this green fad. I know there are new laws coming into effect thanks to that ass bag Bush who claims to be an Republican. A real Conservative would have vetoed that energy bill. I still think Ford, Chevy, and Dodge should fight this energy bill in court. Not just lay down like a bunch of pansies. Thats how the eviromentalists get what they want. They just keeping suing untill they get their way.
Unfortunately for enthusiasts like us, most people are uninformed and ignorant so they are believing all this green propaganda. Someone needs to step up or our beloved muscle cars will be a thing or the past. God help us.
PS- suoperdave84, your car looks sick!
Thanks for the compliment RedGTyl. Wait till you see the hood I am getting for it. Tufiber Venom.
And I see you are fed up with Bush as well (but not for the usual reasons). I appreciate his strength when it comes to the middle east but this energy bill and a few other things have got me pulling my hair out. He's got a lot of people hating the Right and I believe that the hatred for him here in Maryland is what got us our Communist Governor Martin O'Malley. Talk about rage. I can't stand this blue state anymore.
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Bucephalus '07 Alloy Metallic Mustang GT Brenspeed JLT CAI Eibach Pro kit 20" Silver Foose Nitrous Wheels Motive 4.10s
I'm not completely sold on direct injection because I don't believe its actually been perfected enough yet...The mazdaspeed 6 I used to have was DI and it had serious tuning problems even from the factory...the car ran rich ALL the time and I saw really crappy fuel economy...
I think that is why they said it will be like 5 years before they will use it widely.. If they are smart they will perfect it before any car is sold to the consumer.
I really don't have a problem with it.. what if they make a v8 version of this? amazing power. probably for the cobras.. v6 for gt, 4cyl for regular.. I have no problem with that as long as power is Atleast as good as it is now.. and preferably even better.. I didn't buy this car just for the V8.. I would have bought a turbo'd v6 or maybe even an Sti if it looked anywhere near as good as our cars do, or if it had the same kind of value as ours do (you could easily spend an extra 10k for a 350z or an STi for same hp/features, plus, not look as good)
< Message edited by Mishri -- 1/8/2008 11:41:01 AM >
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2007 Mustang GT Automatic Steeda CAI & Brenspeed Tune 14.6 @ 98MPH (DA of 6395 = 13.3 @ 106mph)
Well said. We are the only things on this planet that matter.
All this for 2mpg? Seems like a waste of time to me.
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whipple HO SC,FRPP springs, Pypes mid mufflers, Che adj. LCA, hurst, 4.10's, 1 piece DS, spec stg 2 clutch. Accel coils 12.52@117.6mph so far with a 2.01 60 ft time(pre shaft, coils, clutch).
Well said. We are the only things on this planet that matter.
All this for 2mpg? Seems like a waste of time to me.
I agree, for only 2mpg it would not be worth it... I hope its more like 10mpg.. or its a waste of their money.. and power is power.. who here wouldn't want to trade their stock gt for a supra even though its not a v8? if all you care about is how many cyl. you have... then... something isn't right with you... looks + speed.. isn't that most important?
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2007 Mustang GT Automatic Steeda CAI & Brenspeed Tune 14.6 @ 98MPH (DA of 6395 = 13.3 @ 106mph)
Every manufacturer is being affected by these stricter mpg raitings...the Corvette will soon be scaled back and make less power because of these restrictions...Ford's australian market already sees pretty fast turbo V6's with the Ford branding that are competing with Holden and their GTO/V8 cars...I guess it was only a matter of time when Ford would make the switch...Also to say that the boosted cars are already at their limits peformance wise is a farse...this should not be a blanket statement...every car has limitations regardless of how much power is being pushed by the manufacturer...I've seen plenty of boosted cars push well beyond what the factory was getting fromt them...i.e. 03/04 cobra or the GT500...hopefully when ford makes this move they will build the engines strong like they did for the Cobra and GT500 and people will make awesome power...if I am not mistaken even some of the stock evo motors could crank some serious power before problems would arise...
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End of the V-8? Ford bets on direct injection and turbos - 
There is something wrong with this world. Too bad Ford has to sell out it's good old american buyer to conform to this green fad. I know there are new laws coming into effect thanks to that ass bag Bush who claims to be an Republican. A real Conservative would have vetoed that energy bill. I still think Ford, Chevy, and Dodge should fight this energy bill in court. Not just lay down like a bunch of pansies. Thats how the eviromentalists get what they want. They just keeping suing untill they get their way. 
