i have a regular v6 mistand and some integra pulled on me... i know we have more hp than them but why did he pull on me? what can i do?

You weigh a sh*tLOAD more than him.



I weigh barely over 1 ton and put as much poop to the tarmack in my Saturn as a V6 should. Think about that.

lf you had a GT, you would've smoked him.

Yeah, Get Nitrous or something

I have to agree with stanqlover, I destroy those things on a daily basis, and that is with my son, daughter,and wife in the car!!!<img border="0" src= smileys/smiley2.gif> But not to worry there are plenty of speed parts for the sixers, I seen one in MM&FF in the low 13's high 12's.<img border="0" src= smileys/smiley4.gif>

i suggest different gears they help alot when you got a smaller engine it has a problem pushing 2.73s so go with at least 3.73 with a sixer

I would suggest nitrous and weight loss (for the car and driver. Let's face it, no point in taking out 150 pounds of crap if you weigh in at 300)

I would sell it.

OK, b-ing an import fan as well, I know a thing or 2 'bout 'em. What the bonus is is that they have the power to weight ratio down for them. If you have 200hp in a Civic (my friends) and you only weigh 2000 some pounds, you'll pull. Now, owning an 02 V6 I know they're heavy as sh*t. If you have 200 hp in a 2000 pound car verses the same hp in a 3000 some pound car, he has you beat, I don't care how bad you wanna fight it, the Civic will pull (Civic and Integra is the same car, only Acura). Also, those things have real good hole shot speed I've noticed. Lighten up the car, drop some money on speed parts, you'll show 'em who's boss. Hope that helps.

If it was an LS or a GS you would own it in your V6. If it was a GS-R then it has 200 ponies and is pretty darn quick for a 1.8L engine. Evenly matched I'd say. The V6 Mustang isn't slow but it could be geared better I think. The type-R (also (1.8L) is DAMN quick because it is so light. and it comes with factory mods) They usually have funky spoilers (assuming it was rolling and you can't see the rims) and they are a dumb color like Yellow. They screw. A GT will take them but it would be a good race. Off the line, the GT has it, on the highway the type R will play. Never saw "that" race so can't say who would win.



Good luck with your car.

<blockquote>Quote: Originally posted by jeep45238 on 19 May 2003<hr>
I'd say...if you wanna put the top-of-the-line motor, put it up against another top of the line, like a 5.0 or 4.6....or 427 SC, 428.......

<hr></blockquote>



?!?!?!



I was just trying to answer the question about the Integra pulling on the V6 stang.

I walked them ['99+ v6s] on 2 different occasions in an automatic, 110k+ mi. full weight '97 3.1 Chevy Lumina. <img border="0" src= smileys/smiley6.gif>

Black Magic, ur wrong, the Type-R has 195 or 197 (JDM). The GSR has about 175 or so. Also, the LG, GS, RS Integras may take the V6 Mustang, POWER TO WEIGHT bud.

the horsepower to weight ratio is a factor. integra will have the advantage early on because it is lighter. in the end the stang should prevail because,despite its weight, it has more bottom end hp, and torque (not to say as i know alot of specs for imports, but generally they have high hp/low tq ratio). in my personal opinion, V6 is a nice car for looks, it is cheaper.. perhaps a nice lady car but if you want racing, you cant deny the V8

You know the sad thing about the GSR motor? It makes 125 ft lbs (Edumds I think...).



And an astonishing 8000 RPM<img border="0" src= smileys/smiley8.gif>





Funny sh*t!

Ned, we're talkin' about a V6, dude...not a V8. Tha V8 wouldd kill it obviously, Ned.

well you can always look up published 1/4 mile times for your car/ cars you have raced. a GS-R has 170 hp. it runs a factory claimed 15.2 in the 1/4 mile. a type R, 14.8. i used to have a 99 2.2 cavalier, with a couple bolt ons, and with a good launch i could stay half a car length ahead of a stock GS/LS integra. i also raced a late model V6 stang. from 60 mph, side by side, it took him till i hit my governer at 106 to pull a car length in front of me. he had a 5spd, and was trying really hard. this was one of the problems with the old 94-98 mustangs. hondas made in the same year were outrunning them right out of the factory. GT's pulling claimed low 15's, preludes and type R's running high 14's. Sad, but true. go surf the net for 1/4 times for various cars. results can be interesting.

Hmmm. When are these import guys gonna get the big picture? I mean, unless you are the Tampa Devil Rays you aren't going to spend $1,000,000 on an old washed up has been when you can spend $1,500,000 on a future all star!


ITS ALL ABOUT POTENTIAL!!!!

A 4cyl will hit its realistic potential much sooner than an 8cyl will!!!

And the balance a v-8 engine has doesn't hurt it either.<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0"> <edited><editID>converted</editID><editDate>37769.7184027778</editDate></edited>

Inline 6's are even better balanced.

Good ol 4.0 HO....<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

But, the 99-00 Civic Si and 98-01 Integra Type-R both produce 100hp per liter...that's pretty pimp in my book.

Who cares about hp per liter? Those things have no torque!!!

But, the 99-00 Civic Si and 98-01 Integra Type-R both produce 100hp per liter...that's pretty pimp in my book. </P>


</P>


Naw its called 160 hp for the si and 195 for the type r. that doesnt equal 100hp per liter</P>

Ricers: HP per liter

Us: HP per pound

Well, the Civic Si is a 1.6L (woo) with 160hp, thus producing 100hp per liter. The Integra Type-R makes 195 and 198hp from 1.8L (woo), which means the ITR makes over 100hp per liter. Boo-yah. What now?

Yes, thats true...However...WTF is rear wheel HP as opposed to the flywheel HP.....Then tell me what the HP per liter is. Oh yeah...and for the record...What do the HP and Torque Curves look like for import engines...</P>

Rear Wheel Horse Power - the amount of power that the wheels recieve after the power made by the engine has traveled through the drivetrain.</P>


Flywheel HP - How much power the engine produces</P>


HP numbers for n/a imports usually peak at 6krpms or higher.....torque peaks somewhere ar ound there</P>


for fi motors, power peaks usually a little earlier </P>

Who gives a rat's ass about power/liter?

Most people care about who crosses the line first.

Um, the new SI is a 2.0 Liter motor only creating 160 hp. So your 100 hp per liter idea of the civic is flawed.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=18&article_id=3955&page_number=1

Yeah, what he said...

my 6er has beaten every ricer to challenge me to date, ive got 330rwhp, 345 rw tq, 355 gears, and ive had it to 140, and i can get to 12.6-12.7 on a good day. ive never lost to a ricer. im sure theres some that could beat me, but ive nevr encountered one. but dont get me wrong, ive had my ass handed to me by several big v8's, and a turbo bmw m3. but it was not rice. and for the record, most gt's i come across are not much trouble.

your 6 banger is running 12.6-12.7? Thats about the best times I've ever heard for a 6er. That will blow away the new cobras that come with 390 HP with matching torque!!!

Actually, that guy who said it's a 2.0, I believe I stated a 99-00 Si, which was a 1.6. I realise four-bangers power isn't anything like V-8's, but all I was stating is that It makes 100hp per liter, that was it! s**t!

And that's something to brag about how?

Ah, that you did. I stand corrected. But what you didn't state was the super whimpy 111 ft/lb of torque it had. And that the HP and torque figures weren't realized until after 7000 RPM. Damn close to redline and race motor levels. Awful weak for a race motor. Don't you think?

Hate to admit it but I raced my brother's Civic with my '90 GT convertible. He swapped in a stock B18 type R and put on a cold air intake, shifts at 9 grand. Needless to say he smoked me and he's not all that good of a driver.

My reaction time was .300 seconds better and my 60' times were better, but he had me beat before we made it the 1/8 mile point. His car has full interior. He ran 13.8 and I ran a 14.4. Next time, he's mine...

PS his civic looks stock, quite the little sleeper

I bet your car is an auto...

i know a guy who is a very competant driver who is putting down 12.2's in an 03 cobra with nothing more than a k&n, but i said on a good night, which is not very often, most of the time im i'll get one or two 12.9's and a bunch of 13's. my best is a 12.63 @ 114, but i had the seats out and i was running nitromethane in my race fuel (not a good idea in the long run!!) i had to work to get that.

uh huh...

I smoked a 98cobra last night....how much power they run?</P>


its funny that the mustang owners focus on straight line racing because thats the only thing their car does well in. Ive been running high 12's for the past 1 1/2 years without any problems with my "ricebox". besides from destroying all these domestics, im still getting around 20-25 mpg and the daily driver that Ive always wanted. anyone care to comment? </P>

I suggest going up against someone who's spent an equal amount of money modding their mustang as you have your "ricer". Think you'd have a chance in hell then? :) Till then, keep buzzin around town.

95 GT Z06..

How much cash did it take to get in those 12's? I'm sure it would be apalling compared to what a stang could get into those numbers for.

Damn jeep starting to sound like a stanger to me!

Actually, 95GTZ06, you ever heard of Steeda? They are more into the twisties than the drags. Kenne Brown? Another suspension mod maker who specializes in Mustangs. There are quite a few autocross and road race stangs out there, you just need to pay some attention. I bet the reason you don't see them is because they race in the faster classes? Hmmm. Ponder that.

Yeah, and did he forget about the Boss whipping the s*** out of the Z28 in the T/A series.Been carving corners and bustin a$$ since back then,apparently paying attention and and history of the automobile are not his strengths? <edited><editID>Sean</editID><editDate>37783.4889236111</editDate></edited>

Why do these guys come on here starting trouble? Did he really think someone would agree with him and think he's cool? What a waste. Like to see him bust a 2003 cobra, stock against his riced up piece of crap!!!

Just to get a rise would be my guess?

guess so. It's so rediculous. Go away ricer!

why is everyone talkin about hp when they are gettin smoked by imports? i like both imports and domestics, but why are u hating on the imports when half of them beat u?

No one is hating.What kind of reaction do you think you are going to get when someone comes on running their mouth about nothing?Everything in 95gtzo6's post is absurd, and has no truth to it.When you start spewing off at the mouth about senseless BS someone is going to call you on it!

why is everyone talkin about hp when they are gettin smoked by imports? i like both imports and domestics, but why are u hating on the imports when half of them beat u? </P>


I would love to see half of the ricer population beating mustangs. I'd venture to say that 85% of the rice on the roads today doesn't run any faster than high 15's in the 1/4.</P>


Dred</P>

Most GT's on the road could take about any little grain of rice that wants some, hurley.</P>

Or the bretherend of it...corn (domestic rice).

corn (domestic rice). </P>


<IMG src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0"></P>


Dred</P>

why is everyone talkin about hp when they are gettin smoked by imports? i like both imports and domestics, but why are u hating on the imports when half of them beat u? </P>


Dude, what are you smokin'? Again, another guy talking about half of the ricers out there out beating mustangs? I really can't believe what I'm hearing. ARE PEOPLE REALLY THAT STUPID!?!?! I'm not getting smoked by imports, and I never have. Yes, there are some that can, but I haven't spent nearly the amount of money they have either. Look at this whole situation a little more logically. Money = Horsepower in any car you spend the money on!</P>

man, u have a Z06 corvette man, and arnt u gettin a saleen? thats alot of money for speed too. how much didu spend on your Z06? and your saleen? Money = Horsepower. i love both imports and domestics. i have a 88 gt, and a 96 gsx eclipse turbo. right now the eclipse can pull hard onmy gt. the eclipse might even give you a lil trouble.i know alot of people who can take gt's on the road, and i know alot of gt's have no trouble with "rice" and "corn".haha, whats even more funny is when people get smoked by a ford taurus. haha

I have a Piece o sh*t '90 mustang and I have never EVER been taken by a ricer....EVER! -- and they do try...I'll give'em that. </P>


Now that most my kids are off to college, only a few left at home, ex-wife support is no longer existing I can finally put some $$ into and re-build my Mustang, and when that happens....I don't care what ricer is out there talking bs.....I won't believe it or they'll have to show my 1/4mile time slips.</P>

That is funny about the piece o sh*t WhiteHawk.I was thinking for personalized plates for my car that read, MY POS or 5SLOW.

My stang right now is ugly outside, worse inside, overall nice motor though, but I wouldn't trade that POS for anything else... -- My GF thinks I'm crazy cause I won't get the 2005.....and the funny thing is that after I upgrade the Engine the way I want, and redo the interior, I'm thinking of leaving the crappy paint job it has on right now....I don't even have one lousy emblem on the outside.... </P>


ps - do you guys come out smelling like 93octane when you drive your Mustangs??? -- I do and I wonder if thats normal.....My girlfriend won't get in the car with me (smile) cause of that. </P>

- do you guys come out smelling like 93octane when you drive your Mustangs???* --* </p>
l'd want that to happen...Except l'll be smelling like 89 since l don't use 93. <img border="0" src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

I do.

Great, then I don't have to do anything about the smell. That'll keep me in the car and her out.....haha!

man, u have a Z06 corvette man, and arnt u gettin a saleen? thats alot of money for speed too. how much didu spend on your Z06? and your saleen? Money = Horsepower. i love both imports and domestics. i have a 88 gt, and a 96 gsx eclipse turbo. right now the eclipse can pull hard onmy gt. the eclipse might even give you a lil trouble.i know alot of people who can take gt's on the road, and i know alot of gt's have no trouble with "rice" and "corn".haha, whats even more funny is when people get smoked by a ford taurus. haha </P>


the eclipse give my Z06 trouble??? HA! Not unless you have 10 grand under that hood!!! I hate to sound like a pr**k, but man, have you ever ridden in a 2002 Z06 Corvette? One ride and you will never say that your 96 gsx eclipse will give me trouble. I just can't see your gsx doing anything but getting embarrassed by racing a Z06. Hate to sound like this, but it's the truth for goodness sake! </P>

man, u have a Z06 corvette man, and arnt u gettin a saleen? thats alot of money for speed too. how much didu spend on your Z06? and your saleen? Money = Horsepower. i love both imports and domestics. i have a 88 gt, and a 96 gsx eclipse turbo. right now the eclipse can pull hard onmy gt. the eclipse might even give you a lil trouble.i know alot of people who can take gt's on the road, and i know alot of gt's have no trouble with "rice" and "corn".haha, whats even more funny is when people get smoked by a ford taurus. haha </P>


the eclipse give my Z06 trouble??? HA! Not unless you have 10 grand under that hood!!! I hate to sound like a pr**k, but man, have you ever ridden in a 2002 Z06 Corvette? One ride and you will never say that your 96 gsx eclipse will give me trouble. I just can't see your gsx doing anything but getting embarrassed by racing a Z06. Hate to sound like this, but it's the truth for goodness sake! </P>


</P>


</P>


I know a GSX than ran a 10.7 that would own your Z06. </P>


</P>


</P>

Ok, and how much money was spent on that gsx? I never said a gsx couldn't outrun a Z06. Anything can outruna Z06 with money invested in it!Like every racer knows, money=horsepower. I can go buy a new cobra, spend $1199 on it, andeat my Z06for lunch.But you know what? When all is said and done, that guy is still driving a piece of sh*t eclipse. No matter what he does to it, or how fast it is, it will always be a piece of sh*t eclipse import. Don't know about you, but I'd rather drive something with a lot better reputation for racing such as a Mustang or a Z06 corvette, even a Viper! Anything other than an import!

Well, the GSX was purchased for about 40 thousand less than what you spent....He prob put about 5 grand into it....Its sort of sad to watch these mustangs and vettes go down to some "ricer". Well to get back to you story....</P>


</P>


Lets say your z06 costed you 50 grand (im not sure how much they actually go for new). Lets say he got his eclipse for 5 grand and put 7 grand into it....so 12 grand.....so what do you have to show for that other wasted 38 grand of yours? I guess you get the honor of saying you own a corvette, and you get to tell your buddies how much rwhp your making...</P>


I think we should respect the ricers in eclipses, hondas, etc....I could see maybe a vette owner or mustang cobra owner talking trash, but sometimes i see v6 and gt owners running their mouths.......98 gt's cant even break 15's stock........but anyways dont hate on the 4 bangers </P>

I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS BUT I DESPISE THOSE DAMN RICE BURNERS, I BEAT THEIR ASSES DAILY WITH MY 86 COUPE!

<IMG src=smileys/smiley7.gif border="0">RICERS CAN KISS MY ASS AND SMELL MY EXHAUST!</P>

I HAVE SOME 93 OCTANE COLOGNE! AND YES I USE 93 OCTANE

I love domestics, but I respect any car that can move. It's easy for a 'vette or a Cobra to run fast, but try making a 4 cyl Honda run in the 12's and 13's. They win my respect.

Well, the GSX was purchased for about 40 thousand less than what you spent....He prob put about 5 grand into it....Its sort of sad to watch these mustangs and vettes go down to some "ricer". Well to get back to you story....</P>


</P>


Lets say your z06 costed you 50 grand (im not sure how much they actually go for new). Lets say he got his eclipse for 5 grand and put 7 grand into it....so 12 grand.....so what do you have to show for that other wasted 38 grand of yours? I guess you get the honor of saying you own a corvette, and you get to tell your buddies how much rwhp your making...</P>


I think we should respect the ricers in eclipses, hondas, etc....I could see maybe a vette owner or mustang cobra owner talking trash, but sometimes i see v6 and gt owners running their mouths.......98 gt's cant even break 15's stock........but anyways dont hate on the 4 bangers </P>


</P>


Ok, let me tell you something man. First of all, if you buy a piece of sh*t GSX for 5k, then there's no way it's set up for all the power adders you would put on it to outrun a Z06. And hold on... you're not playing fair. You're comparing the price of a new vette to the price of a used eclipse. ok, lets compare used to used. You can now buy a Z06 for around 30k. So compare a 5k eclipse with that price, not 50k.Ok, that's settled. Now, whoever told you you can put 7k in a 5k eclipse is full of sh*t.If you bought that car for 5k, that must mean that it's a piece of crap, therefore a total motor rebuild. Nitrous-(although it's the p*ssypower adder)would be needed,slicks, (I was going to say gears, but I forgot those piece of sh*t FWD's don't have them!!! lol) Nah, there's no way you're going to spend 7k and have a eclipseoutrunning a Z06. And besides, all I have to do is put slicks on the Z, and get a good run and I'll be touching the 11's. What do stock eclipse's run? 16? 17? HA! Don't expect to spendeven 10k and get 5 seconds out of it, becauseyou will bereally disappointed! Just face it, imports will neverbe what american muscle is. Give it up. <IMG src=smileys/smiley7.gif border="0">God I hate imports!!!</P>

I doubt you even own a 'vette. Most 'vette owners I know don't have to brag. They know they're cars are hot and they don't have to talk trash. You on the other hand give a new meaning to the word 'insecurity'. You probably drive a four door Civic.

Grow up and accept the fact that anyone, even a 'vette can get beat. I've got 3k in my Mustang, for another 3, I could beat you easy. So what?

New to the board. I currently own a 2000 Trans Am Ram Air (stock) and a modded 2001 Toyota Celica GT-S. I love both import and domestic. Id have to say a domestic could easily romp over any import about 85% of the time. Adding intake, exhaust, and headers on an import would give it like 30-40hp. Whereas domestics respond to mods a lot better than an import. But i still like the way my Celica looks. Id have to say overall, the celica is a better car. It has a nice sleek interior, a very nice shiftbox, pretty smooth ride, and a very reliable and well built car. Looks wise, i think my celica looks better than my ram air. Ive got a very nice body kit on it, sitting on some tight 18" rims. It doesnt have any neons, graphics, altezzas, or any large gay ass spoiler. its a real clean import. In the next year i am planning on getting a turbo kit for my celica, and customizing the interior a bit so i can enter it intosome car shows.I would love to put money in my TA, but imports these days are pretty much taking over. i just like the way you can customize an import to the way you want it. My Trans Am is all stock but havent lost to any ricers. The only imports ive lost to was a Supra TT, an RX-7, and a 300ZX-TT. Those are some pretty quick cars modded. Those are like the muscle cars of imports. I give much respect for those cars.

(I was going to say gears, but I forgot those piece of sh*t FWD's don't have them!!! lol)</P>


Last time I checked, GSX's are AWD, not FWD. </P>


</P>


[/QUOTE] </P>


</P>


</P>

ok, new to the board but here's my take. I have a 1990 Nissan 300ZX twin turbo, usual mods, exhaust,intake, you know the usual bolt on stuff (though it takes pulling the engine damn near any time I want to mod it). I have had the car 6 years, very fast, BUT I just recently (this past weekend) purchased a 2000 Mustang GT. It was time for a car that didn't take a million dollars to make it go fast.I won't say imports suck, they don't. I can't see what the whole anti-import thing is all about. Now I see the civics and neon lights and a hundred stickers of parts that they usually have. Domestic guys do that but not as much(or so I have seen). The import handles WAAAAY better, but boy do I love the low end torque and rumble of V-8 exhaust! So, selling the Z and buying a ton of stuff for the Stang'. Gonna be fun. So I guess I have joined what was considered the enemy. Gonna take a bit to crush some supra's and Z's though, but certainly not an old GSX, forget about it.

The thing that pisses me off the most is how the f-ing imports are taking over. There everywere. I have seen some rice cars that look pretty hot. Like the other day i was driving down the street, and i saw some black ricecar that was so custom i didnt know what kind of car it was. I think it was a Celica, but im not sure. But the thing is, is that all of these ricers (its really bad here in Oregon) dont spend money on making them fast. Its all about looks to them.I know down in Cali there is a lot of ricers that can go fast, but uphere all people care about is looks. And that pisses me off. Thats one of the great things about a muscle car, they come fast, so you dont have to worry about making them fast right away. Work on the body, then make them even fast. Buying a muscle car gives you a step up in the game, there already fast and they already look good. Imports take a lot more time, and a lot more money to bring up to par, so whats the point?

The thing that pisses me off the most is how the f-ing imports are taking over. There everywere. I have seen some rice cars that look pretty hot. Like the other day i was driving down the street, and i saw some black ricecar that was so custom i didnt know what kind of car it was. I think it was a Celica, but im not sure. But the thing is, is that all of these ricers (its really bad here in Oregon) dont spend money on making them fast. Its all about looks to them.I know down in Cali there is a lot of ricers that can go fast, but uphere all people care about is looks. And that pisses me off. Thats one of the great things about a muscle car, they come fast, so you dont have to worry about making them fast right away. Work on the body, then make them even fast. Buying a muscle car gives you a step up in the game, there already fast and they already look good. Imports take a lot more time, and a lot more money to bring up to par, so whats the point? </P>


I agree that muscle cars come fast and that there are alot of import owners who make real import fanatics look like ricers. Even though there are alot of hondas with neon lights and altezzas, I have see a good deal of mustangs and cavaliers(espicially), that are all riced out...Dont be ignorant and think its only the import crowd....</P>


People buy imports for many reasons. Probably the number one reason is the reliability is unbelievable. Technology has come so far in the past 10-15 years, and it shows greatly through 4 cyl engines that are being brought over to the United States. While the power is usually not on par with domestics, gas mileage is great and the fact that one can go over 200,000 miles usually without and major repairs is great. I for one can't afford to be throwing my money into a car constantly for repairs.</P>


The bottom line is you should respect all kinds of cars - Every car has its own personality which makes the automotive industry as popular as it is today. While speed is important, I like 99% of America do not buy cars for only straight line power...Alot of domestics that are 30 k or under do not have the greatest handling - Mustangs, Camaros,etc. Just respect all cars....If we could be adults this wouldnt be such a problem </P>

Every car has their pros and cons. There is so much stuff i can do too my Celica to make it look nice, whereas my Trans Am is all about performance. 67gt500, you said to buy a muscle car because its fast and then doing stuff to the body?? what can i do to a body of a Trans Am?? i cant put a body kit or 18" ten spoke rims. What exterior work would you do to a mustang?? Putting a body kit on a mustang, isnt that a little ricey??I love theSaleen kit, but to put it on a v6 or GT??As for rims, the only rims you can get are muscle car type rims. I would keep mustangs a stock look. Adding anything else would make it too ricey. And i dont at all think imports are crappy. They are a lot slower, but overall are a better car. Built better, Last longer, more reliable, and a lot more advanced in technology. I read somewhere that the engines on imports are about 4-5 years ahead in technology then domestics. Look at a Honda S2000, its a 4 banger pushing out 240hp. Thats pretty damn good for a 4 banger. MyCelica has Variable Valve Timing Intelligence with Lift, kinda like the VTEC of Hondas.Whereasdomestics dont have that.All im saying is that imports are way more advanced in all categories of a car compared to domestics. So believe me, they arent pieces of s**t.</P><edited><editID>chrisle7220</editID><editDate>37797.8358101852</editDate></edited>

I'm just saying your going to put a lot more money into rice to make it up to par with muscle. And I dont belive you ca "rice" out a muscle car. Rice and muscle do not go togther. They call it rice because its Asian, they call it muscle because its american. You can put mods on a muscle car, but its not ricing it out. I do respect those people that spend thousends of dollors on imports ( gods knows i wouldnt). I just prefer an american muscle car.</P>


And dont bring up that "lets all be adults here" s**t, age has nothing to do with this. I fell i handeld this as an adult, i was simple stating my opion, and you were stating yours. so i dont know where you got off thinking i was going about this in an unmature manner.</P>

its cheaper to upgrade an import compared to domestic.... my friend has a civic.. and we compare the prices of parts.. and how much performance comes out of both.......

ya, but it would take a s**t load of mods, and a lot of money to slap a v8 in a 4 bangger. and all the little mods here and there to give the ricer a boost in hp, u can turn around and do all that to a muscle car, that already has a v8. and i have looked, the little thing to add a bit of hp, are the same price for muscle and rice.

its cheaper to upgrade an import compared to domestic.... my friend has a civic.. and we compare the prices of parts.. and how much performance comes out of both.......

My ass.

http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODATHB/ (http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODATHB/ target=)

$429 for a THROTTLE BODY!?!?!?

The MOST expensive I've ever seen a Saturn (hey, domestic econoboxes can compete in this too) was $150, which there ain't no way in hell I'm going to pay when I can make my own for under $15.

A header for my ride you can get from a junkyard for less than $50. Cams? $350 shipped. Heads? Do 'em yourself, c'mon.

Then you sit there and compare the prices and results for small block V8's vs small little puny I4's. The price may be a little more (big may), but the overall result is so much bigger.


You want cheap speed, you buy a RWD Domestic V8.






(I was going to say gears, but I forgot those piece of sh*t FWD's don't have them!!! lol)

Last time I checked, GSX's are AWD, not FWD.


Any car, FWD, AWD, or RWD has gears in it, unless it's on of those f**ked up gearless CVT auto trannies, which are damned rare. </P><edited><editID>mustangforums</editID><editDate>37821.0455555556</editDate></edited>

Its really hard to get a N/A import to keep up with domestic. Im not saying it cant be done, but it will take a lot of time and money. The only chance an import would have is if they got a turbo. In the next year, im probably gonna get a turbo in my Celica, and chrome out the engine to make it into show. Im pretty sure that i will be able to hit mid 13's with a turbo, but then again my trans am already runs mid 13's stock. I really respect the Toyota Supras. Ive seen 2 Supras here in Texas, pushing out 1000hp. No s**t. Those engines are durable and can handle a lot of boost without blowing up. All performance parts range in different prices. In some ways a domestic part could cost more and in other ways an import part can cost more. Domestics do get more hp out of mods then an import.</P>

Its really hard to get a N/A import to keep up with domestic. Im not saying it cant be done, but it will take a lot of time and money. The only chance an import would have is if they got a turbo. In the next year, im probably gonna get a turbo in my Celica, and chrome out the engine to make it into show. Im pretty sure that i will be able to hit mid 13's with a turbo, but then again my trans am already runs mid 13's stock. I really respect the Toyota Supras. Ive seen 2 Supras here in Texas, pushing out 1000hp. No s**t. Those engines are durable and can handle a lot of boost without blowing up. All performance parts range in different prices. In some ways a domestic part could cost more and in other ways an import part can cost more. Domestics do get more hp out of mods then an import.</P>


</P>


</P>


Any supra that pushes over 500 horsepower, usually has swapped internals.....no way a toyota engine stock will do 1000 hp </P>

its cheaper to upgrade an import compared to domestic.... my friend has a civic.. and we compare the prices of parts.. and how much performance comes out of both.......

My ass.

http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODATHB/

$429 for a THROTTLE BODY!?!?!?

The MOST expensive I've ever seen a Saturn (hey, domestic econoboxes can compete in this too) was $150, which there ain't no way in hell I'm going to pay when I can make my own for under $15.

A header for my ride you can get from a junkyard for less than $50. Cams? $350 shipped. Heads? Do 'em yourself, c'mon.

Then you sit there and compare the prices and results for small block V8's vs small little puny I4's. The price may be a little more (big may), but the overall result is so much bigger.


You want cheap speed, you buy a RWD Domestic V8.



WELL put.

yeah it probably did have forged internals. but to have 1000hp, thats insane. i doubt i can hit 1000hp in my trans am even with forged internals. from what i hear, toyota supra engines are very durable, reliable, and can handle a lot of power without blowing.

yah. dodge Viper engines are like that, sure they cost a ton (well, my buddy just bought an rt/10 1995 with 17k miles for 37k) but he is told they are damn near indestructable.

chrisle, you need to repeat yourself.



Its really hard to get a N/A import to keep up with domestic. Im not saying it cant be done, but it will take a lot of time and money. The only chance an import would have is if they got a turbo.

You just shot yourself in the foot with that one.

basicly if you but a domestic and an import and do the same mods and spend the same money on each, theres no way a 4 banger will touch a v8.

Exactly. And you have a V8, something more to be proud of. My grandma drives a 4 banger!!! Come on! lol

well my import has a 6 in it and it is no joke, that's for sure, but you don't get the same bang for the buck Mod-wise, I know from personal experience!

So do Jeep Wranglers.

Inline six's (or four's).....and more cubes and torque than your "6" makes stock vs. stock.

Where's the "big whopty f**kin doda" button when you need it?

the supra turbo 2JZ GTTE engine can handle more than 500 hp on a stock bottom end. the rods alone are rated to 700 hp, and that's the weakest part of the engine. I've said this before. and just last week on Ebay there was a supra for sale, with dyno charts pumping out 958 rwhp. on stock internals. an engine with a death sentance in MO. no cast internals could handle that kind of power under boost, so obviously the internals are forged, not cast. they may not be the strongest internals on the market, but i have only seen one turbo upgrade kit for them that doesnt require 110 octane plus gas. single turbo conversion,and you don't have to worry about your bottom end with it. some of you people need to sit down and learn more about how cars work. its hard to understand how to modify a car if you dont know how they work in the first place.

DYNO QUEENS.

Take a look at the sheets, tell me where all the power is made.

Wait, I'll tell you. Very very top end, with jack below it.

All those numbers are peak numbers......without any regard to the rest of the power curve.

Streetable American V6 power foo.......1076 worth of it

http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

You guys who are fighting for imports are not making a valid point. You guys are taking about, supra turbo 2JZ, Toyota Celica GT-s, Supra TT, RX-7, Nissan 300ZX twin turbo, and s**t like that. Those are the TOP of the f**king line imports. You guys are saying they can beat muscle and s**t with very few mods. You guys are spending s**t loads of money on those top of the line imports, while the stock muscle cars are still putting up a good fight with them. match it up, stock to stock. Stock civic vs. stock mustang, what will win? Stock Supra vs. stock camaro, what will win? Stock Celica vs. stock GTO, what will win? Think about it. You can use your Celica GT-S's to fight with, but put the top of line import with top of the line muscle, what will win? Celica GT-S vs. Mustang Boss 427, what will win? Or a Nissan 300ZX twin turbo vs. a Mustang GT-350 "R" modle, what will win? You get what I'm saying?

Iget exactly what you're saying and it was said quite well

Yah, I get it, and domestics will win in most cases. I never said import was better. There are exceptions to EVERY rule. Stock Neons (the fast one) have better 1/4 times than a stock GT and it's cheaper! WRX, same thing, better handling car for sure, and not far of with the horsepower either. Arguments can be made for both camps. One of the reasons we are still kickin this around don't you think.

Dude ned that movie was insane :P, ya i agree there are valid points for both import cars and american cars, but we are all on this forum for a reason, and seriously eximport, would you let yourself be seen driving a neon? and ya imports will burn holes in all ur pockets to upgrade too, they cost a f**kload.

i agree with what you said 67gt500. owning an import,i know my celica aint the fastest car and i never stated that. actually a celica aint really that top of the line. only carries 180hp which can hit a respectable high 14 1/4mile time. ive got a few decent mods in mine,and can now run low 14's. ive been able to keep up with STOCK GT's. It does take a lot of money to supe up an import. Ive already spent maybe 2k for my performance mods, where as the stang is stock. There's really not much aftermarket support for celicas compared to honda. im actually saving up for a turbo, that should put me into the low 13's. but when you think about, a gt can hit low 13's with about 1k, and im over here spending 3-4k for a turbo. sounds rediculous, but im up for it. Its pretty much about personal preference. i think low 13's will be fast enough for an import. At the end of the whole process you will have an import, that you pretty much built and customized yourself. My car would be a great show car, and im sure it will stand out a lot more compared to other celicas.

why are you complaining about where the power is made when you even said yourself its all about who crosses the line first right?

Gains from mods:
A bigger engine is going to gain more hp from a mod than a smaller engine will... that's common sense. Also, most imports come more highly tuned stock than do domestics, so their mods gain them even less.

Speed for Money:
If you wanna see low 14's or high 13's for cheap, you can either get a 1993 camaro z28 for $4k, or you can get a 1988 crx for $1200, and a b16a with tranny, ecu, mounts, shift linkage for $1800 delivered, and have that put in for $1k, if you don't know how. In one case, you get an american rwd car that's 10 years old, and in the other, you get an fwd japanese car that is 15, but only has 30k miles on the engine, and gets 35 mpg.
If you wanna go faster than that, starting with a fwd car is really gonna hurt you, and THAT is the obstacle that is going to be hard/expensive to overcome, not displacement, or the origin of the car.
Still, there are turbos and superchargers for that b16a that bring it up to at least 230 hp at the wheels, and will bring the crx into the 12's, but I assume it's cheaper to bring the domestic into the 12's.
But there are imports that make great drag cars, just not fwd imports. There's rwd imports sush as the ever popular Supra, rx-7, and the s2k should have a lot of potential as well. Then there are the awd imports, like the wrx, and the vr-4.

Rice:
I think of rice as people who think they are fast when they are not. There is A LOT of import rice, but I have met a lot of domestic rice too. Everytime I have lined up with a GT in my crx, they have raced me, and every time they have lost (cuz they were stock), and everytime they would push it way past what was safe, thinking maybe they would win eventually. There is this attitude that they must be faster than a civic, and it's dumb, and it made them drive dangerously.

Import -vs- Domestic
It's true, most imports are not race cars. They are economy cars. They have all the things that domestics have: room for 4, power steering, windows, etc. everything that makes a car heavy, but they come with a less powerful, more fuel economical engine. But you know what? Domestics make a lot of economy cars too, that can't accelerate worth a damn. So if you wanna compare a performance domestic to an import, compare it to a performance oriented import, like a wrx. A wrx is about the same cost as a mustang gt, and about the same speed. And both can be cheaply modded.
So why do all these ricers think their civic is fast when it's not, I mean, that civic ex only pulls a 16.7 quarter mile?
My theory is it's becuase the power comes high in the rpm range. That means the car accelerates best when it is already moving, which is what, 98% of driving? But there's more. Let's say you are racing your car... when you shift from 1st to 2nd, your revs drop a lot more than they do when you shift from 4th to 5th. So that means at high speeds, the civic stays in it's power band a lot better than at low speeds. Basically, a 16.7 second import is faster when driving fast than a 16.7 second domestic, which has more power down low in the rpm range.
I am not saying to be weary of civic ex's on the highway, but maybe a h22a prelude, or an integra type R, or a b16a crx. And remember, fwd traction isn't going to be such a problem on the highway as it is in the 1/4th. What a lot of import drivers don't realize when they initiate these races, is just how fast a rwd domestic can get off the line.

but everyone here has that attitiude from personal experience, just like you have your apparent mustang attitude from losers at the track. and everyone here has the attitude because they have modded mustangs that stock civics think they can beat. it's the same story but the roles have changed. but the burning question is: what was the point of that big speech? lol. and we know domestics make economy cars, but this isa mustang forum and have you read other posts where we clown on j-bodies (sunfire and cavaliers) and focuses?</P>

but everyone here has that attitiude from personal experience, just like you have your apparent mustang attitude from losers at the track.* and everyone here has the attitude because they have modded mustangs that stock civics think they can beat.</p>

I don't own a Mustang. I just got interested in the Ford Camp when I saw the plans for the '04 Lightning. i decided I'd like to keep interested (hard to do in a GM/Mopar family, and working for GM) I also know what it is like to loose as well as win (about 50/50 on the track, I race whatever pulls up to me, 10 second drag car or a 20 second Sebring).
BUT, the thing about domestic econo's: the torque factor. We got it, they don't. We have the combustion chamber pressures and the displacement. We know how to use it also.
My Saturn ain't the fastest, but it's starting to get a name around here on the street. Mustang guys have been impressed with the car for the money put into it, ricers are starting to hate the tail lights. To each their own, but damnit, my way's right.

would you let yourself be seen driving a neon?

If it was the SRT-4. Or a Dodge Omni GLH (or the GLH-S).

There's really not much aftermarket support for celicas compared to honda.

Try doing it with a Saturn. I've resorted to back yardage mostly. I get the same (or better) end result with a much cheaper price tag. Torquiest sub 2L, non boosted 4 banger I know of. Shaved 4/10 off the stock E.T. for under $100 with a slipping clutch. Domestic (designed, assembled, and built).

<IMG src=smileys/smiley32.gif border="0">mad props on the ability to get mustang respect and import dislike off a satty. you're the friggin econo-whatever-i-can-scrounge-up-for-cheap-to-make-it-go-faster king.

ya i kno ive seen the new srt's jeepster, still i think they're ricey, even if their fast... i do respect them more than imports though</P>

I think it is the same crowd that will be buying them, kind of like the ford focus.I have respect also, but yeah still ricey.

i have 2 cars a 1994 mustang cobra with 3.55 rear gears short shifter aluminum driveshaft, full bassani exhaust with no cat x pipe, king cobra clutch, afr heads f303 cam edelbrock perfromer intake, bbk throttle body, maf, and ecm upgraded. im looking for a supercharger for it twin screw or centrifugal. right now it eats up most things but has been beaten a couple times, until i supercharge it. any way my other car is a 1987 formula 350 firebird, i know its a gm but it is fast. its a carb motor with a cam and intake, 700r4 auto with shift kit and 3.73 rear. the car eats most imports it comes across, i put 3 car lengths on a vtech prelude! ok so not impressed... the car was $1500 the prelude is much more.

I have nothing against GM, I own two, 96 Bird and 95 T/A.when it comes to LT1s and LS1s Mustangs were the underdogs for quite some time,untill some bolt ons that is.I like it if it goes fast,I like it even better if it is American and goes fast!

Just for the record I havea 87 Gt that I payed 1000 dollars for and will smoke most imports, there are a few mods on there now but I havn't spent a penny more than a grand yet. Money for horse V8 is the way to go.</P>


Oh and the car runs great!</P>

I think they should offer an option to have the normal Neon facia put on the SRT-4.

Perfect sleeper....base body, insane power plant.

That's what I'd do atleast.

Sorry to say 5ltr5spd, but those '87 mustangs are butt ugly. It may be an awesome car for drag and im sure it can burn a lot of imports, but those body styles are one of the ugliest body styles on a mustang.</P>

Damn, that's mean to rag on a guys car like that... but since you started it, I'll add that that car stock is the same speed as a stock integra gsr, which is not even the top of the line integra. So I imagine it gets beat by plenty of imports.

Oh well thats ok cause it is a lot cheaper to do my mustang up then it is to do up your gsr, I know I used to be and importa$$ hole to, but how much did you pay for your gsr again? </P>

I don't have a gsr... I have a crx, and anyone could buy a 1988 crx for $1k, and kick your ass in a race... as long as the race was an auto-x.

Your right the civic that I had I had done quite a bit of supension work on it and it cornered awsome, and I do still have respect for some imports, most of my friends still drive them but there is still nothing like torque <IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0"></P>

dude.. there are plenty of imports with torque... here, I'll make you a list:

<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley19.gif border="0">

<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley19.gif border="0">

<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley19.gif border="0">

like your crx huh?</P>

Damn, that's mean to rag on a guys car like that... but since you started it, I'll add that that car stock is the same speed as a stock integra gsr, which is not even the top of the line integra. So I imagine it gets beat by plenty of imports.

Your privalige to speak has been removed for 5 hours.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING FOO!?!?!?

Thank you Jeep well said

like your crx huh?</p>
Torque may improve driveability, but as far as all out racing goes, 111 ft-lbs is enough to take out a nearly stock '87 gt, if the car only weighs a ton, and has a 8,200 rpm redline.<edited><editID>spkr_diy</editID><editDate>37813.5549421296</editDate></edited>

and your what 105 hp and your <FONT size=4>98 ft-lbs </FONT><FONT size=2>you don't even know your car... by the way those are the specs from an 88 si the dx is even worse and the hx is even less than that. You wouldn't have a chance to run with me... go to the ricer forum!!!!!!</FONT>

Um, who said I had a d16 in my car? I used to have a d15, though.
I mean seriously... look for a honda engine with a 8,200 rpm redline and 111 ft-lbs.
Or go here:
www.butterfieldaudio.com/crx<edited><editID>spkr_diy</editID><editDate>37813.5691782407</editDate></edited>

Then that negates the fact that your 1000 dollar crx that you would buy could run with me... not a chance do more reaserch and come back when you know what you are talking about

Dude, a stock crx can waste you in an auto-x, and mine can waste you in a drag, and on the auto-x, and it can do it with only 111 ft-lbs, when torque is your big bragging rights... who cares?<edited><editID>spkr_diy</editID><editDate>37813.5735763889</editDate></edited>

what do you have done to your crx?</P>


</P>

It's all on the website... b16a swap, spoon ecu, 3" intake, 4-2-1 header, high flow cat, high flow exhaust, racing clutch, lowered 2" with stiff, linear springs, lightweight wheels, and toyo tires. Air conditioning removed, and it's a '88 which has a curb weight of 1922, and passiver rear wheel steering... very nimble.

very nimble I'm sure it corners great but it won't run with me in the 1/4 mile I know that setup and you wont break anything better than low 15's with it... maybee a 14.9 on a good day. You are right though auto cross would be another story depending on if there were any straight aways or not. But at a traffic light or on a freeway I'll see you in my mirror.

hahaha, low 15's... try low 14's, maybe high 13's.

Ever run it... I know that setup it is not as fast as you think. Let me see the time slip

I've run it against enough cars to know how fast it is.

nother ricer angry bout spending 12k on a 1k car and still losing to stock stangs. just sad.

hahaha, low 15's... try low 14's, maybe high 13's.

You've obviously never ran your car. Quit talking smack if you don't even know what it runs!!!

My SATURN could probably embaress you for at LEAST 1/8 the track, and I've got less than $200 invested in it.

jeep u got any pix of ur saturn, my bros a saturn enthusiast (well kinda)

thats damn cool man. less than 200?

what do you run jeep? i would love to see the look on MY facewhen ilook over (or ahead)and see you still there in a satty if we lined up! lol

trust me rob, if he only has $200 invested, he won't outrun you! haha. I hate to say this, but I got smoked in my stock1992 5.0 GT by a CRX, and that CRX looked like it wasn't worth $100 lol. They are pretty quick for an import, but I would much rather have a mustang <IMG src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">

that crx probably had a b16 and a 200 shot though. ide take take the stock 5.0 over the trick crx anyday anyway!</P>

That $200 is in materials.
$50 intake (made in back yard)
$20 header (1991-1992 DOHC Saturns came with them stock, easily gotten at junkyards for under $50)
$80 diff pin (free used tranny and labor)
$20 stock clutch (parts guy found me a deal, just owe him a detail)
$7 grinding stone kit (bore out my throttle body and knife edge the plate)

I make my own damn 'aftermarket' parts. f**k getting assraped by some company selling a 3" tube and a filter that sits in the engine bay as an "intake".

My freind Sarah is kind enough to let me borrow her website for hosting an occasional picture or two. You'll find a lot of 'em here:

http://firetresses.com/pix/Jeep/ (http://firetresses.com/pix/Jeep/ target=)


P.S. I run almost 16 flat with a slipping clutch and stock exhaust system.<edited><editID>jeep45238</editID><editDate>37815.0020486111</editDate></edited>

that you in the toga?

Hells yeah.

Took it after I got home from school (went to school like that a couple times for s**ts and giggles).

hey jugador, looks like this is becoming the ongoing thread you wanted! <IMG src=smileys/smiley20.gif border="0"> lol,were not even talking about imports anymore!

yeah lol, it's just a chat. so how was lunch? lol. JEEP: you look a bit unhappy for some reason...<edited><editID>Jugador</editID><editDate>37815.449212963</editDate></edited>

*shrugs*

Still a funny picture.

haha jeep nice pictures, wtf is that movie at the beginning? </P>

oh agreed, i also like the edited version with the corvette and saturn logos

how cool would it be to have 430 ftlbs already at 2500 rpm? You wanna turn corners? Let me dig out my swaybars I removed to go drag racing. Lets see, that kinda torque, 1.1g in a turn with some nice sticky nittos, (if I can get them big enough) 3.0-3.55 gears and a car that is kinda heavy ar 3200 lbs. Sorry not much is gonna hang with it, corners or not. Plus knowing how to get your car around a corner is helpful. But I dont know as much as a kid in a civic or crx. They are the grand masters, I am just an old guy with an old car. Did I mention mid 11's streetable for $5300 including purchase price? Anyone else know a car like that? it is really ugly though...lol. thats the best part!

then we must know...what do you own that does mid 11's for 5300

yes please explain

damn it stop teasing us!!!!! we want to know!!!!!

im betting it a GN.

yeah those biotches are hot s**t dude. i'd love one and i bet insurance isnt through the roof cause of the sixerness

dude i would die if i got a GN heh but i cant OH WELL! heh

Whats a GN?</P>

Buick Grand National.

Grand National.

Only one of the baddest domestics ever made, and a Buick at that.

Look at my signiture for one warming up his tires, I'll have to put up the video I have of two spanking a Viper, and of one white smoking on ROLLERS.

ever seen the video of the TT GN breaking the tires loose on the dyno?

I have seen it, another true bang for your buck car. If I came across one at a good price and good condition, I would most definately try to get my hands on it.

ditto that...i would buy it in a second.</P>


GN ... *drools*</P>

ya drop jeep put that video on here once, either in this forum or camaro/stang vs. imports on pg 9 or 11 somewhere around there, my friends dig the 1076 dyno, insane

what could u get one of those bad boys for, not in great shape, but running ok and who cares about how it looks

(im looking for an affordable,good, cheap insuranced, but moderately powerful car. preferably a standard too.)

You can only get them in autos. But, they pack 300 ft lbs of torque at a measly 2400 RPM.

I was able to get oen with a ripped up interior, great exterior and an alright motor down to $4K, 1984 model.

are the monte carlo's of the era any good, or standard? is there any same body/engine but different division, especially in a standard? them turbo's like a damn S/C man!</P>

The carlo's are good....avoid the ones with the 5.0 (the 305) in them.

I don't know of this motor being offered in a standard. The auto cushions the blow of the torque...with a manual, it'd be breaking crap left and right.

And...what the f**k do you mean by "them turbo's like a damn S/C man!"?

at 2400 that's mad power

"I don't know of this motor being offered in a standard. The auto cushions the blow of the torque...with a manual, it'd be breaking crap left and right."
</P>


which motor, the TT? what do u mean auto cushions it, it makes it actually drivable basically? also, what u mean breaking crap, torquesteer (or literally breaking s**t off it)?</P><edited><editID>Jugador</editID><editDate>37820.0362037037</editDate></edited>

The GM 3.8L V6 only came with a single turbo stock.

Damned near every auto i've been in doesn't engage as harshly as a stick. With the instant torque that motor can produce (the 300 ft lbs is actually one of the s**ttier specs off the motor), you'd be tearing up clutches, diffs....you ge the idea.

Torque steer is only on FWD vehicles with un equal drive shafts.

damn, saw the one with the twins poking through the hood so i just assumed. so im confused...what do u reccomend here, just getting an automatic V-6? and...didnt know that about torquesteer...but ive seen rwd cars draggin on tv and i thought that was torquesteer..guess just unstable. ALSO: is that the same 3.8 as on the newer ones (ie camaros)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=2423788585&amp;category=61 37</P>


<IMG src=smileys/smiley3.gif border="0">. anyone know how i can get urine out of denim shorts? lol!</P>

haha yawww.haleyshints.com (http://www.haleyshints.com) that guy knows how to get anything out... J/K heh

also...all i see on the SS carlo's of the era are 305's...that bad? maybe a GN is a better choice. do insurance companies look past the turbo and good performance of it and just see V-6 and make it cheap or do GN's have a rep for high cost insurance? i'd love all input on these since it seems economical (more so than stangs...i know i know, but they just have me intrigued), both price and fuel, and possibly insurance, and not to mention what a great rice beating sleeper!

The GN's were only available with auto V6's. The 3.8's BASIC design has stayed the same for over 40 years.

305's suck. Plain and simple. The bore's so small that the valves are puny in comparison to a 350's valves and really limit the performance capabilities of them.

Some insurance companies look past the turbo, other's don't.They do get better gas milage, can pack more balls very cheaply (wanna know how to have an adjustable wastegate for under $4? lemmie know), and in my eyes, are so darned ugly they're beaurtiful.

i got a quote from i believe allstate (i think)on it and it was f**king 2500/6 months...they obviously dont. and i'd love to know the wastegate thing despite me not having a car, let alone a turbo, cause i think a GN is a good choice. basically, yes, i wanna know how. and damn i agree on the ugly part. but did i ever see somethingcool, a 68 gto with an all GN drivetrain. maybe find a rolling chassis goat and a wrecked body GN? lol.

There is a 72 LeMans on Ebay in NC, it has a GTO front end on it, no title. Just a thought... Anyway GTo's are cheap insurance, LeMans are cheap too. Just add 455 power and have fun. I did... I have a 70 GTO in my collection.

gto's can get insured cheap? i really doubt that a 389+ ci engined (minus the later 350 being available) classic car can be insured for cheap, but hey im not an insurance genius. i wouldn't want a clone either, i'd want the real deal because a lemans won't be worth s**t down the line and guess what will...the great one. and not to mention, 71/72's are one of the ugliest gto's made minus the 73 and maybe 74 depending on your taste. good years: 64, 65, 66 is decent, but tail lights on it suck, 67 is ok, 68, the best one, 69, and 70 is moderately ok, but i hate the little skinny bumper mounted tail lights (also seen in 71&amp;2's). 74 is cool, but only because it kinda has a trans am-like grill. that's my gto rants...lol

what gto cheap?

huh?

why did they never make a gn manual? same thing with the pontiac GTP.

nope only auto, jeep says that its good cause clutches and rear ends would get worn out bad, and its also the same as the monte carlo ss (but it had a POS 305 non turbo V-8)

Oh, ok, GrandNational. Ithink they look nice. But then again, I like boxy old cars.I'de like to have one.

like your crx huh?</p>
Torque may improve driveability, but as far as all out racing goes, 111 ft-lbs is enough to take out a nearly stock '87 gt, if the car only weighs a ton, and has a 8,200 rpm redline.

Blah Blah Blah. Let's see you do this, in daily driven rides:

break loose on rollers with that monster torque and sky high RPM (http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/page5/chow%20movie%20files/christtgn.wmv)

And, well....the webpage with my viper vs. GN's is down...so just trust me on that one.

CAll an insurance company and ask them about insuring a 1970 GTO. They cant tell what engine it has in it, also they are old cars. For some reason My GTO's only cost me about $150 a year. Besides I am older and was married, I still had other cars that were more expensive. Call and check it out. 71-72's are an aquired taste, where as 73's are just kinda wierd and a 74 looks like nova. If you cant find a GN, get a T-Type. same engine without the Darth Vader looks.

if i look at a gn, what are osme of the first things i should check out... body and engine wise.

gn's r totally sweet and they're probably gonna cost you less insurance then a gt... so its a good deal *dont know if its gonna cost u less but i think it will*

so basically if i got my great aunt's goat at 16 i could get it insured reasonably? but since i doubt that will happen, i'll ask the difference in a gnx and like a t-type and stuff. holy s**t though, it does loook like darth vader

I think we should respect the ricers in eclipses, hondas, etc....I could see maybe a vette owner or mustang cobra owner talking trash, but sometimes i see v6 and gt owners running their mouths.......98 gt's cant even break 15's stock........but anyways dont hate on the 4 bangers &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; well i am in n.o with a 98 gt and yes i run my mouth and will be happy to back.. my car was stock with a auto matic and ran a 14.74.... which is weak ... anything can run... i have a 89 coupe with a 351 widsor with major mods... no tranny anymore which is why i don't talk about it, we need to get all those who are on a mustang site hating mustangs to pick a weekend and a track... i will make the trip and lets get together and play.... </P>

Sorry to say 5ltr5spd, but those '87 mustangs are butt ugly. It may be an awesome car for drag and im sure it can burn a lot of imports, but those body styles are one of the ugliest body styles on a mustang.</P>


</P>


funny you should mention because i know very few who don't like the say 90 model stang and it takes all of a few hours to change nose cap and fenders...so as far as looks,not much to complain about. </P>

hahaha, low 15's... try low 14's, maybe high 13's. </P>


98 gt with an automatic... i would love to see your crx on the line...</P>

let me find the picture of the sexayest fox ever.</P>


</P>


http://www.twokota.com/mustang/IMG_1569.jpg (http://www.twokota.com/mustang/IMG_1569.JPG target=)</P>

if i look at a gn, what are osme of the first things i should check out... body and engine wise.

Check the B pillars for rust and warpage. If it's the original paint, if the car was run had it will be rippled from the chassis flex.

T-Tops- check for leakage with a garden hose, as well as wether the locks work, and how are the seals. Any rust up there?

Rims- the original rims are fairly rare and should stay on the car. Rejuvinate them if they look like ass

Motor- same as any, but with a turbo. Take off the intke piping to the turbo. Inspect the turbines and check for any pitting or deformations. Any oil leaks between the snails? Do you hear any boost/vacume leaks (easy way to check for boost since the motor needs to be under load- bring along a freind and have him break check a bit and stick your head under the hood)?


Last but most important: take it to a reputable mechanic whom you trust. They may find something you won't.



What to immediately buy: a turbo timer. If the motor on a turbo'd vehicle doesn't run for a couple minutes after being driven and circulate the oil, the bearings will cook and kill the life of the turbo, not to mention make turbo lag very obvious.

thanks a ton man.. yea a turbo timer is a must.</P>


actually me and my friend in his 87 turbo supra just got blown by, by a gn.. couldnt catch it to talk to him though.</P>

Wanna know why you couldn't catch him to talk? Your freind drives a highly overrated inferior vehicle.<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">

not a stock supra<IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">...oh its an 89 btw, 1 more thing left, and his car is finished, dont feel like typing all his stuff, unless some1 is really interested.

Still an inferior vehicle<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0">

1989 Turbo Supra</P>


<FONT face=Arial size=2>-JDM 1JZ-GTE engine out of JZA70<BR clear=all>-Griffin FMIC core with HKS endtanks<BR clear=all>-HKS SSQV on driver side hardpipe<BR clear=all>-Custom GReddy exhaust, 3" piping from downpipe, no cat, no resonator, no muffler, to 3.5" piping at the tip<BR clear=all>-Apexi Power Intake<BR clear=all>-Apexi SAFC<BR clear=all>-Eibach Lowering springs (need to change)<BR clear=all>-Tokico TEMS struts (need to change)<BR clear=all>-Blitz DSBC Spec-R boost controller<BR clear=all>-HKS FCD<BR clear=all>-DEFI 60mm Link V2 boost gauge<BR clear=all>-DEFI Link V2 control unit<BR clear=all>-MKIV OEM Fuel Pump<BR clear=all>-JDM 2JZ-GTE 440cc injectors</FONT></P>

89 supra= inferior

blah blah blah blah blah motor= ricerese....or greek whichever you preffer

fmic= any boosted motor in my opinion sould have one

ssqv (forgot what it stands for)

exhaust- any car built for speed should have one.

intake- woa now

super afc- dear god...not the piggy back computers....

lowering springs- big whoop

struts-see above

boost controller- what turbo vehicle doesn't have one (mechanical or electric)?

FCD (forgot as well)

boost gauge-that's a mod?

V2...that for the gauge?

OEM fuel pump....so it's stock?

injectors-they squirt the fuel in....

<FONT face=Arial size=2>MKIV OEM Fuel Pump</FONT></P>


<FONT face=Arial size=2>his is mkiii, mkiv is a better pump</FONT></P>


oh, and you blah blah blah'd over the important part... the 1jz-gte swap. .3 litres smaller than the stock 2jz-gte, and puts out ~25-30% more hp stock, and significantly more torque... ill get timeslips from him... then you;ll drool.</P>

I seriously doubt it.

In my eyes, anything that comes from Asia that isn't a rotary sucks balls and is WAY too expensive to modify.

ok. im done arguing lol.

I seriously doubt it.

In my eyes, anything that comes from Asia that isn't a rotary sucks balls and is WAY too expensive to modify. </P>


the best thing ever done to a rotary was swapping it out and putting in a v8.<IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0"></P>

Cause you know I'm right (yes, I'm a cocky mother f**ker when it comes to debates).<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0">

no, just different opinions. i dont mind imported engines... they have their perks, as do american engines.

im out.. peace... lol good stuff jeep.<IMG src=smileys/smiley1.gif border="0">

Now you're just lying to yourself<img border="0" src=smileys/smiley17.gif border="0">

hey jeep... that gn that white smokes the tires on the dyno... im pretty sure its a twin turbo v8 and it isnt the original 6 cylinder... i know i have seen that car before on the net and im pretty sure it was a TT V8... either way it is still one damn impressive car.... just double checking</P><edited><editID>onebadass280z</editID><editDate>37822.1997569444</editDate></edited>

modding a 4cyl is pointless. if you want to modify an engine, dont buy a half engine, get a whole engine. even the ballsy imports have either v6s or v8s, (sorry import guys reading this, a civic is not ballsy)</P>

4 cylinders just have less potential having less displacement. anyone seen the new cavalier commercials trying to appeal to ricer fags? i think it might just be in texas but its so gay

"there is NO replacement for displacement"</P>

agreed...people can say high revs and forced induction all day, but if you do the same to a high displacement engine then you're back to square one</P>

it was probaly fixed up</P>


</P>

probaly had a turbo charger

or it couldve had nitrous

get a v 8

dude this thread was so dead <U>and</U> you post whored on it. i cant believe anyone is that lame.

Wow, so supra's can make over 1000hp with only 3/4 of an engine... that's amazing! You might as well think of everything in terms of displacement. If you boost up to 1 bar, you have doubled your displacement. If you double your rev limit, you have doubled your displacement. If you double your compression ratio...
So if I have a 1.6 liter with 9psi,8k redline, and 10.2:1 compression, it's the same as a 3.9 liter with 0psi, 6k reline, and 9:1 compression ratio. Now say my car weighs 2000lb, and the comparison car weighs 3000... now I have a 5.8 liter engine by comparison.

I'm a member of a V6 Mustang forum... depending on what year V6 you have (94-98 singleport, or 99+ spliport), you might or might not have alot of work to do. You can drop alot of N/A money in a singleport, and still never put out more than 140hp at the wheels. It is very hard to get them to run better than high 15s (high 16s/low 17s is the average stock). If you have a splitport, then you're starting out at high 15s/low 16s (average, again). 3.73s, t-lok, P&amp;P heads/TB/upper and lower intake, CAI, headers, x or h-pipe, and some sort of dual exhaust system (GT takeoff is popular) will get you in the 14s if you're a good driver. Ford Superchip is also very worthwhile. And while you're at it, get a short shifter.Stock stang shifter is worse than some trucks.

"there is NO replacement for displacement"</P>


</P>


No offense meant... but if that's your way of thinking, why do you have a Mustang?</P>

why do you come on here to run your mouth?

I'm not running my mouth anymore than you... and the post before my last one was very helpful imo

uh not really but ok</P>

no, I'm just saying... like in all cars, displacement/speed isn't always the determining factor. If displacement was the biggest factor, you wouldn't get a Mustang... you'd get an F-body.

if displacement was the only thing, i would get a 90 lx notchback with a 351 windsor, stroker kit, worldclass tranny and be doing wheel stands all day... i am happy with my 281 and although small, sounds great, pretty fast, handles like a dream, and looks a lot better than a f-body(myopinion) but to each his own.. </P>


</P><edited><editID>tripsevn7</editID><editDate>37877.1961226852</editDate></edited>

bingo. f bodies dont look good and theyre much more expensive too.

and a new GT was more than my used Integra... to each his own. That was my point<IMG src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">

but integras have tiny engines and a new gt being more than a used integra proves nothing. not to mention integras are ugly too

I don't think my car is ugly at ALL... And I happen to think a WS6 T/A looks better than ANY modern Mustang. And F-body guys say ya'll have tiny engines too. Ya'll (99+ GTs) are farther back from them speedwise than I am to ya'll... just something to think about.

yeah, a car that looks like a pig is so much better looking than current gt's. bull s**t. f-body guys are tools. they cost an assload more. the mustang gtis about cheap economical v8. f-body is about gm being fools who committed suicide on the performance market.

You do realize that the only reason the Mustang outsold the F-body is that the SN95 redesign appealed to women more, right? That's the whole reason the Probe was cancelled. They were gonna axe the Mustang in the early 90s, but decided to wait for public reaction for the SN95 bodystyle. It was a hit. Now some people will say that the average buyer for the Mustang is a 40-50yr old male. You would be right. But guess who they buy them for?</P>

i'm not talking about outselling. i'm talking about they got overpriced trying to be all out. and you know what? SN95 looks like ass, i don't care who it was intended for. and you know what? i know mustang lx's are girl cars. but guess what. who here actually wants to own one when they could get a gt? i see no hands raised. actually hell, why should i argue it, im glad mustangs are a "girl car". 1, it keeps the good ones coming out for performance enthusiasts. 2, it pisses people off when they get spanked by one.

I don't get pissed off on the rare occasion that I lose to a Mustang, cuz I don't pick fights with those that I know are gonna beat me. Did beat a '96 Cobra in the 1/8 once though. 9.7 to his 9.9... he launched badly. He did trap 9mph higher than me though. And he ended up running a 14.6 to my 15.0 I believe.

If it was an LS or a GS you would own it in your V6. If it was a GS-R then it has 200 ponies and is pretty darn quick for a 1.8L engine. Evenly matched I'd say. The V6 Mustang isn't slow but it could be geared better I think. The type-R (also (1.8L) is DAMN quick because it is so light. and it comes with factory mods) They usually have funky spoilers (assuming it was rolling and you can't see the rims) and they are a dumb color like Yellow. They screw. A GT will take them but it would be a good race. Off the line, the GT has it, on the highway the type R will play. Never saw "that" race so can't say who would win.

Good luck with your car. </P>


Actually a GS-R only has 170hp and what kind of mods do they have from the factory??? None. Oh and what about yellow stangs????Is it ok for domestics to make yellow? Stop talking out your ass... I have a friend that has a 2001 type r and bone stock he runs 14.4's...</P>

If it was an LS or a GS you would own it in your V6. If it was a GS-R then it has 200 ponies and is pretty darn quick for a 1.8L engine. Evenly matched I'd say. The V6 Mustang isn't slow but it could be geared better I think. The type-R (also (1.8L) is DAMN quick because it is so light. and it comes with factory mods) They usually have funky spoilers (assuming it was rolling and you can't see the rims) and they are a dumb color like Yellow. They screw. A GT will take them but it would be a good race. Off the line, the GT has it, on the highway the type R will play. Never saw "that" race so can't say who would win.

Good luck with your car. </P>


Actually a GS-R only has 170hp and what kind of mods do they have from the factory??? None. Oh and what about yellow stangs????Is it ok for domestics to make yellow? Stop talking out your ass... I have a friend that has a 2001 type r and bone stock he runs 14.4's...</P>


</P>


Yeah... I have a GS-R; 170hp. And since when are black, white, and yellow dumb colors? Cuz that's all the Type R has EVER been offered in. Either one would spank a V6 if properly driven (even a 99+ with light mods), and both either beat 94-98 GTs (some GS-Rs and all Type Rs), or give them a run for their money (most GS-Rs)</P>

I say ford needs tostart making a Mustang Type B. It seems that any car that has the word "Type" in it is really fast and can beat most anything! <IMG src=smileys/smiley4.gif border="0">

The V6 Mustangs "Phony Ponies" are slow as hell. But they are also heavy. When I had my GXE automatic Sentra I raced a 99+ conv. w/ auto and we stayed abouteven the whole way up to 80. Keep in mind my Sentra ran a 16.9 1/4 mile. It weighed 2650 and has 126 hp at the crank.

bingo. f bodies dont look good and theyre much more expensive too. </P>


I enjoyed that line...the mere fact that a new Z28 was 22.5k and a new GT was 24.5k completely discredits this post...especially since the Zwould destroy a GT. <IMG src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0"></P>


Reading over this I found quite a bit of inaccuracies in the posts...but since it's over 7 months old, I'll let it all go...</P>

GSR dude you took the words out of my mouth the type r's dont even hit 200 horse stock just there power two weight ratio is wicked.Me personally i walk on most gsr's.I have a good freind with a 96 civic coupe (wich weighs less than a integra from the get go)he has a jdm b18c wich most of you know is a gsr motor.he has a dc sports header greddy evo exhaust and typeR tranny.I have a 94 gt 5 spd and he gives me a serious run.Although he has never beaten me he stays less than a car behind me all the way to 110. The point is some rice aint no joke. P.s. i am a recover ricer......99 sentra se-l 5 spd almost did the sr20det swap but traded for my stang.

gsr takes any sn95 stock for stock (not cobra) .

also i dont think a gsr motor is a b18c, i might be wrong, and if it is a gsr motor your friend should kill you with his mods, unless he starts in 2nd gear.

you wont get lower than mid 15s with a stock 94 gt(period!)

stock 94 up gsr's can break into the 14s with practice.

JDM GS-R, which is called the Si-VTEC, or SiR-G is the B18C. The USDM GS-R has the B18C1. And 94GTchris, what mods do you have for him not to walk you like a dog?

Poll.. Who on here cares about a B18 engine? I know I dont, its less than 1/3rd of my engine, and no it wont come close to me wihtout alot of money. So who cares, lets vote.</P>


</P>


Oh yeah no ofense GSR and Own3d. It is about stangs after all isnt it? IIts kinda rare I tell everyone here how to build a Pontiac or an LS1, just how they run so maybe you guys have a benchmark or know not to mess with certain types, cause damn 11's with bolt ons? My car wouldnt even do that. I had to build an entire engine and then get it to hook. I do like my buddys 03 Cobra, its rather interesting and needs some slicks.</P>

bingo. f bodies dont look good and theyre much more expensive too. </P>


I enjoyed that line...the mere fact that a new Z28 was 22.5k and a new GT was 24.5k completely discredits this post...especially since the Zwould destroy a GT. <IMG src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0"></P>


Reading over this I found quite a bit of inaccuracies in the posts...but since it's over 7 months old, I'll let it all go...</P>


</P>


i was mainly talking about SS's since they went for an insane 30k most of the time</P>

bingo. f bodies dont look good and theyre much more expensive too. </P>


I enjoyed that line...the mere fact that a new Z28 was 22.5k and a new GT was 24.5k completely discredits this post...especially since the Zwould destroy a GT. <IMG src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0"></P>


Reading over this I found quite a bit of inaccuracies in the posts...but since it's over 7 months old, I'll let it all go...</P>


</P>


i was mainly talking about SS's since they went for an insane 30k most of the time</P>


</P>


Last I knew the SS's went for around 26k, the verts started at 30k. Of course if you option out the Ttop SS, you'll run 30k. which is why you just get a well optioned Z28 and run all over GTs all day. </P>


I heard a rumor that the Maro will be back in 07. <IMG src=smileys/smiley3.gif border="0"></P>

Poll.. Who on here cares about a B18 engine? I know I dont, its less than 1/3rd of my engine, and no it wont come close to me wihtout alot of money. So who cares, lets vote.</P>


</P>


Oh yeah no ofense GSR and Own3d. It is about stangs after all isnt it? IIts kinda rare I tell everyone here how to build a Pontiac or an LS1, just how they run so maybe you guys have a benchmark or know not to mess with certain types, cause damn 11's with bolt ons? My car wouldnt even do that. I had to build an entire engine and then get it to hook. I do like my buddys 03 Cobra, its rather interesting and needs some slicks.</P>


</P>


I only wrote about it because it was brought up by a Mustang owner<IMG src=smileys/smiley2.gif border="0">. And I'm well aware of the performance of most domestics as well</P>

bingo.* f bodies dont look good and theyre much more expensive too. </p>


I enjoyed that line...the mere fact that a new Z28 was 22.5k and a new GT was 24.5k completely discredits this post...especially since the Z*would destroy a GT. <img border="0" src=smileys/smiley5.gif border="0">*</p>


Reading over this I found quite a bit of inaccuracies in the posts...but since it's over 7 months old, I'll let it all go...</p>


</p>


i was mainly talking about SS's since they went for an insane 30k most of the time</p>


The SS is a limited production car, which means it will be worth way more money in the future which causes it be several grand more for one.

if they can stay assembled they might, but thats a big if. <edited><editID>Jugador</editID><editDate>37957.0263888889</editDate></edited>