RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve?
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/20/2007 9:12:55 PM
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shadowfoxx
Posts: 609
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
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ORIGINAL: Zanador
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ORIGINAL: shadowfoxx
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ORIGINAL: Hoppers04Gt
Why are you so certain this kit wont work. What info do you have that tells you it will not work and someone will be 100% upset with this kit?
I'm not saying that the kit won't work... what I am saying is that it's not worth the effort....anyone who actually has a supercharged car can tell you that you always end up spending more then you think after everything is all said and done.. especially if you are piecing something together like this... so take the price you think it will cost to get this kit and the eaton with install then add another 1000 for anything else that will come up along the way of install.. that price for a supercharger that is garbage out of the box is just not worth it... The eatons are root's type s/c's and are known for = teh suck.. There is a reason that most cobra owners swap them out.. after you spend the time and money to get an eaton put on your 2v you will definitely not get the reaction you will want... It's just not worth it.... just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done..
Everybody always tries to fine "the cheap" way to supercharge.. but the fact is.. there is no real cheap way to supercharge your car.. speed = money . If you are going to do it.. then do it right the first time otherwise you will be hating yourself for it later when you end up spending twice as long and more money to get what you were originally hoping for.
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
The reason this has not been done is NOT because there isn't a kit.
Its because of what he is saying. It is NOT worth the effort to put a M112 on your car.
Look at the salleen's that have them. They do NOT make good power comparably PSI vs PSI to a centri or KB twin screw. The heaton is ineffiecent at ANY boost level, and it also had a tendancy to drop boost in the upper RPMs, again at any boost level.
There is literally no reason to spend 4000 dollars on a M112 kit when you can have a centri kit for this much, make more power, and get more for your money.
Put a 112 on a GT at say 8 PSI with full boltons and your lucky to make 340ish WHP (if that). A centri will be making 380+ whp easily on a safe tune. eaton ftl!
edit: remeber we are not talking about what the blower "will support" but what it will acutally do on a 2v car. A 4v with a forged bottom end can simply make more power on less boost, even with higher intake temperatures. The M112 makes good power on the 4v, but with the less than fantastic flowing heads etc of the 2v its just not going to make good power.
There is just zero reason to do this swap. The only way it would make since is if you could get the entire kit, including the intercooler, cooler pump, and all the hosing etc for around 2000-2500 bucks. This just isn't going to happen, because you still need the fuel pump, IMO maf, injectors, intake tubing, throttle body, etc etc etc. All of this stuff adds up quick, and they just arn't going to sell a custom lower intake manifold to mount it up for peanuts.
Also, NOTE that the link supplied about the M112 kit on a GT says it WILL NOT FIT a stock hood. This adds to the price, and if you think dropping on a new hood + paint is cheap... you need to shop around.
Like I said, heaton FTL!
thank god for 2000gt4.6..... at least someone's got my back and has some sense in here.
< Message edited by shadowfoxx -- 12/20/2007 9:16:14 PM >
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'01 GT + KB 2.2 = hell yeah.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/21/2007 11:22:25 AM
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red347
Posts: 349
Joined: 3/8/2003
From: United States
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I happen to agree that the old Cobra M112 will not make "serious" power, whatever that number may be, but there is no escaping the fact, that with the new TTI Magnuson making 385 rwhp at 7 pounds of boost, is nothing to sneeze at. Monty tells me that it has a torque curve of a twin screw and the power curve of a centrifugal. I will try to get a copy of the dyno sheet.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/21/2007 2:42:22 PM
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2000GT4.6
Team MF Member #2046
Posts: 12513
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quote:
ORIGINAL: red347
I happen to agree that the old Cobra M112 will not make "serious" power, whatever that number may be, but there is no escaping the fact, that with the new TTI Magnuson making 385 rwhp at 7 pounds of boost, is nothing to sneeze at. Monty tells me that it has a torque curve of a twin screw and the power curve of a centrifugal. I will try to get a copy of the dyno sheet.
I don't think I buy that either on anything close to a stock or boltons only car. Even a KB won't make 385 WHP at 7 PSI, and neither will a twinscrew, at least not on a boltons only car.
no matter what screw design you put in the eaton housing, its still not going to be as efficent as either a twin or centri. Its just the nature of the design of the eaton. The new generation is supposed to be alot better while still deilvering the reliablity that you come to expect from a "factory installed" eaton but its still not the greatest in the world.
Look at the GT500 guys, that blower comes with the same type of design you are talking about and they are still swapping them for KB and whipple blowers and making more power with less boost.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/21/2007 6:39:12 PM
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red347
Posts: 349
Joined: 3/8/2003
From: United States
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Under 2K? How were you planning on doing that?
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/21/2007 7:45:32 PM
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red347
Posts: 349
Joined: 3/8/2003
From: United States
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You would still need the inlet to the blower, a throttle body, a MAF, an cold air tube, a filter, a belt, hoses, hardware, clamps, an ACT sensor, a throttle cable extension or Cobra throttle cable, a cruise control cable extender, and intercooler pump and reservoir, a chip or tuner, and more I'm forgetting. If you run off the stock lower pulley it will not make boost. Remember the Cobra crank pulley is 7 3/4 inches in dia. and the stock GT crank pulley is 6 1/4. Even with a 2.75 upper, which is the smallest that will fit on the Cobra blower snout, if you do the math, thats only 6 pounds of boost, and you can't go any bigger like you can on the Lightnings. Thats how the lightning guys make power by going to larger crank pulleys and one step down on the blower pulley. The cam sensor is located on a boss in the block.
Just some food for thought.
< Message edited by red347 -- 12/21/2007 7:48:51 PM >
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/24/2007 10:33:08 AM
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onegreedy
Posts: 368
Joined: 6/12/2006
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i emailed TTI to ask if they would sell their ukit without the supercharger and here is what they said!
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We do plan to offer several iterations of our kit.
There will be a non-intercooled version which will sell for approx. $800 less.
We will also be offering just the lower plenum that the blower sits on top of also separately. You can choose to purchase this with or without the intercooler, heat exchanger and fluid pump.
The full kit is priced at $4299 as a introductory price. This includes everything we list on the website. It truely is a complete kit as nothing else is needed to allow the blower to run a peak performance.
If you were to take away the supercharger, I would also assume you would provide your own inlet plenum, throttle body, and intake kit. This is just an estimate but I would say you are looking at a $1500-2000 price reduction to deduct all these items from the kit..
I'll have to check with our tuner, but I assume that if you already have a SCT flasher then you could mail us your unit and we can download our tune on to your unit so you can then download it yourself. You can deduct approx. $150-200 for deducting the chip.
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if they took 1500-2000 off the 4200 price now , it would be very interesting because lets say 1200-1700 for all the rest of the kit, then 4-500 for a used eatton and maybe 200 for a tune
worst case scenerio your looking at 2400 bucks if your lucky you could do it for 1700 no one can complain about gtting a supercharger for 1700 bucks, even it it only added 100 rwhp thats not a bad bang for the buck
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