RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve?
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/17/2007 8:59:02 PM
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rd50stang
Posts: 238
Joined: 8/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: defconfire
Where have you seen a kb kit for that cheap?
Its on their website.They start at 3899 for a 99-04 GT. http://www.kennebell.net/pricelist/SC-PRICELIST.pdf
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2004 GT 5 spd. JLT CAI, Off-road X-pipe, Flowmaster 40-series, SCT/VMP 93 Tune.
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(1995 GT 5spd Cold Air, Offroad H-pipe, Flowmasters, UD pulleys) Traded
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/17/2007 11:57:52 PM
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Zanador
Posts: 463
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From: Bergen County, New Jersey
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If they sell a lower manifold and brackets for the m112 for 700... this might become a viable cheap blower method
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 6:29:40 AM
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Quicktime_GT
Posts: 2317
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everyone says it can't be done... I believe it could be .. I think using a intake manifold from a supercharged saleen or roush along with an adapter plate for the blower could make it work...
Anything can be done
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 8:11:37 AM
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shadowfoxx
Posts: 609
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Quicktime_GT
everyone says it can't be done... I believe it could be .. I think using a intake manifold from a supercharged saleen or roush along with an adapter plate for the blower could make it work...
Anything can be done
Nobody is saying that it "CAN'T" be done.. but anyone who knows anything about these superchargers and mustangs know that either way this is a bad idea.. Anyone who is seriously considering doing this is welcome to do so but when it's all said and done.. Don't come back to these forums when you look like --->  (and yes 100% chance you will look like this)
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 8:50:21 AM
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Hoppers04Gt
Posts: 1222
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Why are you so certain this kit wont work. What info do you have that tells you it will not work and someone will be 100% upset with this kit?
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:19:54 AM
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shadowfoxx
Posts: 609
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hoppers04Gt
Why are you so certain this kit wont work. What info do you have that tells you it will not work and someone will be 100% upset with this kit?
I'm not saying that the kit won't work... what I am saying is that it's not worth the effort....anyone who actually has a supercharged car can tell you that you always end up spending more then you think after everything is all said and done.. especially if you are piecing something together like this... so take the price you think it will cost to get this kit and the eaton with install then add another 1000 for anything else that will come up along the way of install.. that price for a supercharger that is garbage out of the box is just not worth it... The eatons are root's type s/c's and are known for = teh suck.. There is a reason that most cobra owners swap them out.. after you spend the time and money to get an eaton put on your 2v you will definitely not get the reaction you will want... It's just not worth it.... just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done..
Everybody always tries to fine "the cheap" way to supercharge.. but the fact is.. there is no real cheap way to supercharge your car.. speed = money . If you are going to do it.. then do it right the first time otherwise you will be hating yourself for it later when you end up spending twice as long and more money to get what you were originally hoping for.
< Message edited by shadowfoxx -- 12/18/2007 9:24:30 AM >
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:31:21 AM
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Zanador
Posts: 463
Joined: 11/28/2006
From: Bergen County, New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowfoxx
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hoppers04Gt
Why are you so certain this kit wont work. What info do you have that tells you it will not work and someone will be 100% upset with this kit?
I'm not saying that the kit won't work... what I am saying is that it's not worth the effort....anyone who actually has a supercharged car can tell you that you always end up spending more then you think after everything is all said and done.. especially if you are piecing something together like this... so take the price you think it will cost to get this kit and the eaton with install then add another 1000 for anything else that will come up along the way of install.. that price for a supercharger that is garbage out of the box is just not worth it... The eatons are root's type s/c's and are known for = teh suck.. There is a reason that most cobra owners swap them out.. after you spend the time and money to get an eaton put on your 2v you will definitely not get the reaction you will want... It's just not worth it.... just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done..
Everybody always tries to fine "the cheap" way to supercharge.. but the fact is.. there is no real cheap way to supercharge your car.. speed = money . If you are going to do it.. then do it right the first time otherwise you will be hating yourself for it later when you end up spending twice as long and more money to get what you were originally hoping for.
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:31:23 AM
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Zanador
Posts: 463
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EDIT: $^&# Double post.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:37:26 AM
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shadowfoxx
Posts: 609
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zanador
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
yeah.. I'm aware why it was so expensive.. but like I said.. Things always cost more then you think after install.. If you can show me someone who has done this and has been happy with it.. then I would consider the argument that it might be somewhat ok.. but seeing as how there is a lot of internet toughguys out there who talk a big game but in real life don't have any type of supercharger themselves.... yeah.. I'm still saying it = teh suck.
Not to mention that nobody gets a supercharger to see how low they can keep the hp.. you might keep the hp low at first but you will eventually want to turn it up... and you can forget about your 600hp claim because an eaton will not get anywhere close to that on a 2v.
< Message edited by shadowfoxx -- 12/18/2007 9:44:43 AM >
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:45:55 AM
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Zanador
Posts: 463
Joined: 11/28/2006
From: Bergen County, New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowfoxx
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zanador
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
yeah.. I'm aware why it was so expensive.. but like I said.. Things always cost more then you think after install.. If you can show me someone who has done this and has been happy with it.. then I would consider the argument that it might be somewhat ok.. but seeing as how there is a lot of internet toughguys out there who talk a big game but in real life don't have any type of supercharger themselves.... yeah.. I'm still saying it = teh suck.
I could understand you arguement if those charges for the S/C didn't apply for every single S/C. Since they do, it does not matter- you have to pay to play no matter WHAT S/C you get, so that does not make any one S/C inherently suck over another.
The reason people have not done this is because there was no kit before. If you look on the website, it says coming out this month. Which means this is VERY recent. I will agree completely with you that until now it was not worth putting an m112 onto a 2v, because there was no kit. Now? Who knows. If this kit is well priced, then this may be the best route to go.
I don't see how you can say any S/C= "teh suck". The eaton can handle as much as hp as the normal units of every other company- when you want to go major power you need to get the D-1, the KB 2.6, all the bigger units. This S/C will be able to make more power than the normal driver will ever need.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 9:56:03 AM
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shadowfoxx
Posts: 609
Joined: 4/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zanador
quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowfoxx
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zanador
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
yeah.. I'm aware why it was so expensive.. but like I said.. Things always cost more then you think after install.. If you can show me someone who has done this and has been happy with it.. then I would consider the argument that it might be somewhat ok.. but seeing as how there is a lot of internet toughguys out there who talk a big game but in real life don't have any type of supercharger themselves.... yeah.. I'm still saying it = teh suck.
I could understand you arguement if those charges for the S/C didn't apply for every single S/C. Since they do, it does not matter- you have to pay to play no matter WHAT S/C you get, so that does not make any one S/C inherently suck over another.
The reason people have not done this is because there was no kit before. If you look on the website, it says coming out this month. Which means this is VERY recent. I will agree completely with you that until now it was not worth putting an m112 onto a 2v, because there was no kit. Now? Who knows. If this kit is well priced, then this may be the best route to go.
I don't see how you can say any S/C= "teh suck". The eaton can handle as much as hp as the normal units of every other company- when you want to go major power you need to get the D-1, the KB 2.6, all the bigger units. This S/C will be able to make more power than the normal driver will ever need.
I didn't say all s/c = teh suck.. if you look at my sig I have a s/c and am very happy with it... but all positive displacement s/c's create more heat then other types... and root's are the absolute worst.. you WILL run into heat soak issues for sure.. I'm not here to argue this with you as you can feel free to do whatever you want...I couldn't care less.. You can get a kit to rig a shi**y blower to your car if you want but it's going to be just that; shi**y. All I have to say is good luck. 
I'm assuming that you don't have a supercharged mustang.. You probably browse the forums soaking up other peoples opinions on things, which is fine, but it doesn’t exactly make you a very credible source... Things are always different then they are on paper. If you try this then for your sake I hope it works out...
< Message edited by shadowfoxx -- 12/18/2007 10:22:03 AM >
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 11:48:59 AM
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JT76
Team MF Member #281
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what did the old Saleens with the eaton blowers put down stock? like 300 +/- rwhp?... i just dont see this whole eaton thing being a good idea with the great kits available on the market for the 2v
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/18/2007 12:54:43 PM
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HotStart
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I've seen a couple mustang GT's with the old Saleen Series II kit ( The older eaton M90) with supporting mods such as exhaust, intake, custom tune etc... Put out about 375rwhp on 11psi...So The M112 should have no problem putting out 400-420rwhp at the same 10-11 psi which is the max for a stock block anyway.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/19/2007 6:29:50 AM
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Quicktime_GT
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The blower on the older saleens was an M90, The Eaton Check out bluegt.com this guy only made 298rwhp with an m90 compared to making 395rwhp with a KB 1.7
M90:
The cobra Eaton is an M112.. and as far as I know it will not bolt on to the M90 intake manifolds.
Its a better blower than the M90, but still I don't see a 2v making alot of power with either. The money you'll spend on a M112 kit and blower would be better spent on a centri unit, or just go buy a twin screw blower.
M112:
The kit mentioned above looks pretty cool
< Message edited by Quicktime_GT -- 1/4/2008 8:42:19 AM >
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/19/2007 10:23:20 PM
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red347
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JMS (Johnson Motor Sports) www.jmschip.com just completed the testing of the new TTI supercharger. Talk to Monty about their results. They are impressed. Here is the thread on SVT Performance. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440696
385 rwhp at 7 pounds of boost. TTI uses a Magnuson Gen 5 with Eaton rotors. Different animal all together.
You can buy a non I/C KB for $3900.00. But ad $1000.00 for the I/C, $700.00 for an 8 rib system, $300.00 for a SB Throttle body and so on.
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RE: 03 eaton on a 2 valve? - 12/20/2007 4:29:03 PM
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2000GT4.6
Team MF Member #2046
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zanador
quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowfoxx
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hoppers04Gt
Why are you so certain this kit wont work. What info do you have that tells you it will not work and someone will be 100% upset with this kit?
I'm not saying that the kit won't work... what I am saying is that it's not worth the effort....anyone who actually has a supercharged car can tell you that you always end up spending more then you think after everything is all said and done.. especially if you are piecing something together like this... so take the price you think it will cost to get this kit and the eaton with install then add another 1000 for anything else that will come up along the way of install.. that price for a supercharger that is garbage out of the box is just not worth it... The eatons are root's type s/c's and are known for = teh suck.. There is a reason that most cobra owners swap them out.. after you spend the time and money to get an eaton put on your 2v you will definitely not get the reaction you will want... It's just not worth it.... just because something can be done doesn’t mean it should be done..
Everybody always tries to fine "the cheap" way to supercharge.. but the fact is.. there is no real cheap way to supercharge your car.. speed = money . If you are going to do it.. then do it right the first time otherwise you will be hating yourself for it later when you end up spending twice as long and more money to get what you were originally hoping for.
"Sucks" is a relative term. The eaton can put out an amazing amount of HP- the reason why Cobra owners change them out is because they want to see in excess of 600+ rwhp- which the eaton simply cannot do. If you are only looking for the 400 rwhp range (Most you can safely do on the stock lower end) then the eaton will be more than fine for your application.
The reason why the m112 swap onto a 2v was so expensive in the past is because there was NO KIT. Everything had to be custom fabbed, and that would cost an insane amount of money in labor charges if you could not do it yourself. If there is a standardized kit you can "bolt on" in a way to make the m112 work on these cars (Not that hard, all you need is a lower manifold to mate the S/C to the heads, and mountin brackets for anything you relocate) then the cost goes WAY down- there is no custom fabrication to bring the price up. For example, on the 3.8L engines, it costs about 2k to get the m112 hooked up. I would not be surprised if you could get a m112 on a GT for about the same price, if the kit that comes out ends up being reasonable.
Personally, I would do this in a second if a proper well priced kit comes out. Kills two birds with one stone for me, gets me a S/C and gets rid of my NPI Intake. Time will tell if they can pull this off- but if they do, this will be a really good alternative to a KB- gotta love the instant torque.
The reason this has not been done is NOT because there isn't a kit.
Its because of what he is saying. It is NOT worth the effort to put a M112 on your car.
Look at the salleen's that have them. They do NOT make good power comparably PSI vs PSI to a centri or KB twin screw. The heaton is ineffiecent at ANY boost level, and it also had a tendancy to drop boost in the upper RPMs, again at any boost level.
There is literally no reason to spend 4000 dollars on a M112 kit when you can have a centri kit for this much, make more power, and get more for your money.
Put a 112 on a GT at say 8 PSI with full boltons and your lucky to make 340ish WHP (if that). A centri will be making 380+ whp easily on a safe tune. eaton ftl!
edit: remeber we are not talking about what the blower "will support" but what it will acutally do on a 2v car. A 4v with a forged bottom end can simply make more power on less boost, even with higher intake temperatures. The M112 makes good power on the 4v, but with the less than fantastic flowing heads etc of the 2v its just not going to make good power.
There is just zero reason to do this swap. The only way it would make since is if you could get the entire kit, including the intercooler, cooler pump, and all the hosing etc for around 2000-2500 bucks. This just isn't going to happen, because you still need the fuel pump, IMO maf, injectors, intake tubing, throttle body, etc etc etc. All of this stuff adds up quick, and they just arn't going to sell a custom lower intake manifold to mount it up for peanuts.
Also, NOTE that the link supplied about the M112 kit on a GT says it WILL NOT FIT a stock hood. This adds to the price, and if you think dropping on a new hood + paint is cheap... you need to shop around.
Like I said, heaton FTL!
< Message edited by 2000GT4.6 -- 12/20/2007 4:32:35 PM >
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