IMHO it is a lot of $$ to get improved drivability. I would not remove one to put on a carb setup. EFI is 'superior' but at too high a cost (to me).
A MAF and a tuneable ECU are critical - because i doubt [looking around] that anyone putting this on is at stock HP/flow demands. Speed/density systems require a laptop/mapping capability to find a 'tune' that optimizes for engine performance.
A good carb, set up properly, will allow the $$ to be spent on more worthwhile items (appearence or HP).
what no one has comented on is the boss efi may be a "tbi" but it does differ from other "tbi", if you look closely it runs at high pressure unlike any other tbi I have seen, other tbi's run at 14-18 psi and the boss efi runs at 45 or so psi so if I am correct the injector pulse would be much different and I would think the fuel would be much more atomized than your normal tbi system.......think of a garden hose and a nozzle.....to get the same amount of water at a given pressure means opening it up but with higher pressure its more of a fine mist. I have used the holley analog and DI TBI's and they were impressive but the DI was a POS, the commander 950 I hear is worlds better but the retrotek is only about 300-400 more and it comes with a wide band self learning ecu and it looks alot better than the holley and in some cases has no return line. I still to this day think tbi has advantages over MPI, why does a carb usually make more power? wet flow and the atomization and intercooling effect and its so true what they state on thier website, look at efi race motors they either put the injectors far away from the cylinders aqnd direct inj, inside the cyl runs even higher pressure and it makes the most power(my diesel DI runs 20,000 psi). I'm no expert but I would think the more the fuel is atomized before it reaches the chamber the better.
I wish sombody or some mag would step up to the plate and do a real world test on efi vs carb, tbi vs mpi without worring about the manufactures.
In my opinion the boss efi is a good idea, its something that bridges the gap between tbi and mpi and gives the carbed look that we like to keep......
c'mon retrotek........take a 408 stroker and bolt on a perfectly calibrated pro-systems carb and your perfectly calibrated boss efi and compare them from idle quality.power and fuel consuption........I DARE YOU!
I think the price should be more like 1400-1500................complete turn key system.
You raise some good points. However, I think there is more to a street engine than how much power it makes at WOT. What's best for racing dynos may not be best for racing around the Taco Bell drivethrough.
IMO EFI is a driveability upgrade. And from what I've seen you can do much better for the money than this retrotek setup. For a race engine I would probably go with a carburetor. For a street engine I am going with a factory mass-air multi-point setup. And for what the retrotek system costs I could have bought two entire donor cars for an EFI swap.
OK. Since I started this mess, let me tell you what I am after and what appealed to me about the retrotec system. I am building a daily driver that I have a 351W for. My intent is sticking with that engine for now. I would like EFI for drivability mainly and economy and emissions as a secondary concern. After all the $2k price would take a while to recoup with the slight gas mileage increase. What appealed to me about the the Retrotek system was easy installation, classic carburetor looks, and no clearance problems. None of which is an absolute necessity. I do have a carb for it and I will probably start there anyway.
As for the stock ford system, correct me if I'm wrong, but a stock EFI won't fit under the standard export brace and monte carlo bar which would require the high dollar types or custom making a set. Would also require a lower manifold to adapt to the 351W. Considering this, I would probably be better off buying a complete 5.0L EFI engine from a salvage yard and just putting it in. This is also an option I am considering.
What I originally asked was if anyone had used the Retrotek system, not if TBI is better or worse than carb or MPI, or... I have already considered the options and just wanted to know if anyone had experience with this specific system.
Carburetors are superior to EFI in terms of power production, reliability and cost, generally speaking....EFI wins out on mileage, emissions and has a slight edge in drivability sometimes. But ultimately it comes down to each individual build, system and tune. THAT being said...if you want low cost drivability and economy, you can get that with a carburetor. If you go EFI that's fine too, but don't go to EFI because you think it's necessary to get good drivability or economy, if you do that then you're weasting your money.
Carburetors have a reputation for low economy and drivability because of retards that don't use and tune them properly. Drivability with carbs is highly dependant upon the engine build and carburetor selection(which is true of EFI as well), and virtually ALL drivability problems with carb'd cars can be traced to either the incorrect carburetor, mismatched engine combination, or poor tuning. A PROPERLY selected carb with a PROPERLY selected combination of parts that is PROPERLY tuned will have excellent drivability and good economy. My carb'd 302 puts out FAR more power than either of my parents EFI cars, and it starts faster, especially in cold weather, has better throttle response, better drivability, and slightly less mileage(they get upper 20's-low 30's mpg on the highweay and I get low-mid 20's, not bad for having 2x the cylinders and 3x the power with no overdrive).
It all comes down to build, a properly built carb'd setup will run well, as will a properly built EFI setup. A poorly built carb'd setup will drive like crap, but so too will a poorly built EFI setup. The reason "EFI has better drivability" is because most people have the wrong parts slapped together with the wrong carb, so it runs like crap, and EFI is more forgiving. Carbs are much less forgiving when it comes to things like that, but also if you take the same well built engine and run it with EFI or with a carb, it should run just as well with either, only the carb will have better power and the EFI will have better mileage(in most cases, and also not by much of a difference).
If you think it's necessary to go with EFI for drivability, it's not, you just need a well thought out carburetor setup, rather than a hobbled together build that's gonna run like crap. If you want to go with EFI though, my personal choice for a basic street system with be Edelbrocks Pro Flo EFI setup. It's around $2,600 I think, but has EVERYTHING in it, including a tuning module so you don't need a laptop. It's a multi-point EFI setup, that uses a 4bbl throttle body and port injection, so it has a carb look to it(just without the float bowls) and it comes from a known reliable manufacturer that has excellent customer service/support. It's not the highest performance EFI system out there and the tuning is more limited than some others, but it's a good speed density system that you can easily tune with their module, and it will work with a very wide range of engine combinations. Plus it comes from a company that you know is not likely to go out of business in your lifetime, so you can always get parts and support for it.
I think that system is one of the best stand-alone bangs for the buck out there when you factor in performance, tuning, support, power, reliablity and quality etc. You could also try a Megasquirt setup if you don't mind building and tuning your own EFI system, but there's a lot of brainwork involved in that one, it's sure as hell NOT plug n play. Just stuff to consider.
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Who cares how much horsepower it has, all that matters is how fast it goes!
Best run 13.23 at 106.97mph with a 2.183 60' Times from before tune and driver mod.
After looking at all the responses it appears that; a) most did not read all the website material or b) those who did do not appreciate or understand it So stick with your carbs man, until the end. Real time tuning with a wideband O2 sensor for any condition is worse than one time tuning by reading your spark plugs at one condition? Pull out the tarot cards while you are at it.
I never said that real-time tuning is bad. And who says you can't use a wideband to tune a carb? You get a get carb that's reasonably good at adjusting for atmospheric variations, and whatever minor changes in afr you may encounter can be easily offset by the atomisation and vaporization advantages of a carburetor. Plus the Joule-Thompson effect, which actually causes the air/fuel charge to increase in density as it heads towards the cylinder, something that port EFI can not do, but TBI EFI and carbs can. Plus the carb is far cheaper and much more reliable. As soon as you get a sensor going bad in an EFI car, or any problem in wiring etc that changes resistance even slightly, and your fuel metering is off. Many EFI cars drive around with fuel metering that's off slightly and they never know it.
I'm not saying EFI sucks, it works quite well. But what I am saying is that many people think that carbs suck when compared to EFI which is simply not true. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. Look at the racing world, some of the most potent race cars in terms of mean cylinder pressures, are carbureted. And even the most exotic of the EFI cars, Formula 1, for all the hundreds of millions of dollars each team spends every year on R&D and competition, and as exotic as their fuel injection systems are with highly advanced real time monitering that FAR exceeds any system on any street vehicle, they produce mean cylinder pressures that are only similar, or slightly less that other much less exotic carbureted cars, like Nextel Cup and NHRA Pro Stock.
No one system is better than the other overall. Each is better than the other at certain things, but in the end, the advantages and disadvantages of each make the systems comparable to one another. Ultimately it comes down to the guy setting it up, if you have an EFI system vs. a carb system, and both are set up equally as well, they're both going to perform similarly, though each will have an advantage over the other in certain areas. It comes down to what you want out of the system. But ultimately, it's not necessary to convert to EFI to gain drivability and economy with good performance, a carburetor can do that too.
Personally, I like carbs for n/a applications, because I just don't see the point in paying 5-10x as much for EFI, to have the same drivability, but with slightly less power and slightly more mileage, unless you're really that concerned about a few extra mpg. Especially when carburetors have much less to go wrong with them. However, it's just not neccessary to convert to EFI to gain drivability and still retain power. Don't count out older designs, pushrods and carburetors still have a lot of fight left in them, despite what many people think about modern overhead cam and EFI technology.
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Who cares how much horsepower it has, all that matters is how fast it goes!
Best run 13.23 at 106.97mph with a 2.183 60' Times from before tune and driver mod.
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RE: Anyone tried the Retrotek EFI? - 
