Just Kidding Guys.I thought that might get someones attention. Moving on, I am not new to the forum but I have posted very few threads. I'm that guy that just reads everyone else's stuff. The question I have for you today is regarding the Terminator and the S197 GT. I understand the power potential of the Cobra w/ the forged internals is almost limitless. But with all the praises from owners of the S197 about the improvements over the new edge, I find myself considering the new look. It seems like (correct me if Im wrong) that 425-460 hp is the limit on the new 3 valve before grenading the motor. I'm not sure how dependabe that would be, but this car is going to be a daily driver for a little while. So is the S197 as a whole improved enough to outweigh the performace of the Terminator? I would also like to know what the Cobra "feels" like compared to my 04 GT aside from the huge power difference. So any oppinions you might have, especially from anyone that has experience driving both will be greatly appreciated. I am in the desert for another 9 months so this won't be an overnight decision. Thanks again.

I have never drove the S197 though I'm sure it's a great platform with potential.
Come on now it's a TERMI that alone should be enough and if not then while you own a 03-04 Cobra this is the best performing mustang put out to date from the factory. Find either one and take it for a spin and see what you think.Though I am bias and am thinking merely off of a performance standpiont I think that an 04 cobra and 05Mustang should be comprable models. Good luck with what ever you decide.

The 03/04 with the IRS still handles and rides better.

The S197 is QUITE a bit more comfortable. However, speaking from a base standpoint. The 03/04 has all the potential in the world with it's setup from the factory. Whereas the S197 has limitations on it's motor & transmission. It's not a huge deal, but it's quite an expensive investment..

The difference from the 04 GT to a Terminator is like this... It'll be like going from riding a BMX bicycle to getting in your 04 GT. You'll giggle like a little girl and then you might feel a little embarassed you ever tried making your GT quicker.

the s197 feels a lot bigger than the new gt. it feels heavier. terminators handle soo much better than the s197 GT's. i would never in my life take an s197 over a termy.

those 3v engines can take about as much power as the 2v's do. not really alot more....

ORIGINAL: Dan04COBRA

The 03/04 with the IRS still handles and rides better.

The S197 is QUITE a bit more comfortable. However, speaking from a base standpoint. The 03/04 has all the potential in the world with it's setup from the factory. Whereas the S197 has limitations on it's motor & transmission. It's not a huge deal, but it's quite an expensive investment..

The difference from the 04 GT to a Terminator is like this... It'll be like going from riding a BMX bicycle to getting in your 04 GT. You'll giggle like a little girl and then you might feel a little embarassed you ever tried making your GT quicker.

Hahah, ain't that the truth!

YeahI know there is a world of difference in the power, but had no Idea what the car drove like. My GT leaves much to be desired in the handling a ride department...would expect better performance out of something this rough.

I remember test driving my Cobra, I asked the salesman if I could get on it (we were on a 4 lane highway) and he said if you want to buy it. Sure enough I dropped to 2nd gear and powershifted my way into 3rd and into 4th. I put the car in neutral and rode the brakes looking for vibrations, just laughing my head off. I couldn't BELIEVE the difference. Take your GT and literally DOUBLE the feeling of power it has, thats what it's like to get into a Terminator.

The whole way home I thought about the money I threw at my 02 GT and wanted to get sick, but I didn't want to barf all over in the Terminators nice clean interior. So I just waited until I got home to vomit everywhere.

BTW, the IRS really softens the feel of the ride. The car is MUCH more predictable when you hit the throttle and the ride quality is nothing like the GT, it's not even similar.

I test-drove a S197 recently and was completely disappointed. Hated the feel, hated the handling. Power felt 'close' to my '01 Cobra, but definately wasnt any better. The only thing I liked about it was the heated seats. and this is comparing it to a N/A New Edge Cobra. A termy isnt even comparable.

Thats good to hear. No way I'd buy one if it felt like the GT. That was one of the main reasons I was evenconsidering the S197, everyone says it drives so much better than the new edge stangs.

the terminator is a completely different car than the new edge gt!

I haven't really driven any other stangs than mine andmy friend's '01 GT, but I can understand if the S197 GT's are better driving cars compared to the New Edge GT's. They have stiffer chassis and are a bit heavier, which I can see aiding day-to-day driving. The stiffness helps on the track too, but the weight doesn't really. It also has a solid axle (even the GT500) which gives a nod to the Terminators in the handling department.

This is all just talking out my a** though as I haven't driven an '05+ but from what I've read/seen. I can imagine they drive/handle as well or slightly better than the older GTs, but still not quite as well as the Terminators.

I also hear a lot about launching issues with the IRS. All of my racing has been on 2 wheels, aside from the occasional red light run, so How hard is gonna be to launch? I have quite a bit of time on the drag strip...but with motorcycles.

its not hard too launch the cobra. just make sure that if u get into wheel hop, dont drive thru it, let off! u can do different things to upgrade ur irs, such as stronger axles, irs brace, solid bushings....

ORIGINAL: Hawkdriver23

I also hear a lot about launching issues with the IRS.

All of that can be taken care of with a couple hundred $$$.

I used to have an 04 GT. I test drove an 05 GT. I own an 04 Cobra. Its as simple as that.

The 04 GT was a good learning car for me. First V8 I've owned and got alot of good seat time in it. Never took it too the track tho. After I got to reading how poorly the 2V responds to mods, I started to look at something different. The 4.6L 4V is just about the best you can get in the Ford world from the factory. Granted the 5.4L GT500's are great engines and respond just as well and better than the 4.6L does. But my point is, you can pretty much get all you can out of the 4.6L as it gets the job done.

That alone sold me on the cobra. I think the cobra is very comfortable to me. Alot will disagree with me on that, but for me... its a great fit. The shifter is in a good location for me and I just really like the way it feels. The 05+ stangs just felt too big for me. I just felt like I was in a GTO or something.

If your looking for performance, open tracking, autoX, and DD... the cobra wins hands down. I guess if you really like the styling tho, the 05+ stangs can make for good a good daily driver I guess. JMO tho.

I am definatly leaning toward the Terminator.I am not worried so much about the small creature comforts of the S197, thats what the wifes car is for right? And I'm already driving a slow ass mustang, drives me crazy. Sounding fast just makes it worse. I'm pretty confident that a future test drive will solidify my thoughts and your feedback. Not to mention the 6-speed you can't get w/ any other stang. I do like the styling of the S197 w/ certain body kits. But I love the cobra's body as is. I need some reassurance to buy what will be a will be 4-5 y/o car when I get back. Think it will hold up in the long run? Oh, and thanks for all the great feedback.

Pick up a cobra, power potential is much greater with stock internals, you would have to change your internals in the S197 if your looking for 475+hp. I would go for the Cobra, not just power wise, but not as many people have them, I see S197s every where I turn now, its a great looking car and an amazing platform to build on, but not too many people have the Cobras...

ORIGINAL: AJ03SVT

ORIGINAL: Dan04COBRA

The 03/04 with the IRS still handles and rides better.

The S197 is QUITE a bit more comfortable. However, speaking from a base standpoint. The 03/04 has all the potential in the world with it's setup from the factory. Whereas the S197 has limitations on it's motor & transmission. It's not a huge deal, but it's quite an expensive investment..

The difference from the 04 GT to a Terminator is like this... It'll be like going from riding a BMX bicycle to getting in your 04 GT. You'll giggle like a little girl and then you might feel a little embarassed you ever tried making your GT quicker.

Hahah, ain't that the truth!



-1
Let me jus say this first, i have a certain amount of respect for the 03/04 Cobras, they are without a doubt great cars, my bro owns one so i know first hand.
I know imma get bashed, but i cant understand this logic...i'll explain....and this is the main reason why i stillfind Terminators are overratted.
Now i jus looked up Cobras an GTs retail:
Cobra 03/04 $28,000
GT 03 $17,000
I was financed for 20,000 for mine an my bro 35,000 (jus rounding numbers here)...theres a $11-15K difference.
So people here arepretty muchsaying that modding a GT is a joke compared to a stock Cobra...that looking at a $28k overall buget, spending$11-15k on a GT with $11-15k to spare in modding vs. a stock Termi is sickining? I would think that $11-15k in a GTfrom engine to sus and tires even wouldnt pretty much crush anything on the street(considering it was spended wisely)?

I know i didnt use exact wording from people in typin this, but im just looking at the overall picture and this is to my understanding from what isee. Maybe someone can set in a missing factor that i missed..? Not lookin for a kick in the nuts, just someone to set me strait (maybe i'll get both? [8D]).

the fastest cars on the street have the most money in them.......when you start modding its all about how much are you willing to spend. such as a stroker 4.6->5.1L twin turbo gt will stomp the living **** out of a cobra, but you looking at 11-12k for that. then on the flip side a stock cobra is better than a stock GT. Suprise it costs more. modding is about how much do you want to spend and where do you want to go with it.

You are looking at it from a financial point of view.

I could go buy a 500 dollar Fox LX and spend 6500 on a drivetrain to absolutely mop the floor.

The MAJOR advantage to the 03/04 Cobra is that the BASE is already IN place. The forged internals & the bulletproof T-56. Unfortunately, not everyone has the time, patience or confidence to invest into a shop doing such a MAJOR overhaul. I don't have the patience for troubleshooting heavy modifications. I don't have the time to drive my car back and forth to a tuner.

Hawk never asked anything financially. BTW, you can get an 03/04 Cobra for less than a new Mustang GT right now. He never mentioned anything about acquiring a 2v GT either...

I was in my GT for 16,500. Figure 5k for a strong motor, 3.5k for a strong transmission including labor, plus 3.5k for a supercharger not including installation & a tune. $1500 for suspension modifications & installation. All for an unproven drivetrain that would likely have quirky issues that would need troubleshooting. Without a performance shop thats just a happy hop skip & jump away, it could be a very long & tedious process.

For me, it made sense to buy a car with a bulletproof drivetrain that is proven, covered under warranty & will always have a good value on the market. These kind of modifications on a GT would never be recovered if you were to attempt selling it unless you were willing to sit on it for a longggggggg time.

i was just saying financially mods are moda and cost money, so anytime your mention them money is an issue. if i wanted to mop anything on the streets, i would buy a notch lx (lightest of the foxes) get a 460 stroke it to a 557 build the **** outta a c4 and TT it, and you easily looking 900rwhp+. all for under 15k. and it would be 8 sec street car.

you can get an 03/04 Cobra for less than a new Mustang GT right now
im pretty sure they're the same on price...25-30k for cobra 07-08 gt = 26-33k

dan04cobra is absolutely correct on this one. +1 on post 21

I totaly agree guys. I don't want it as a sit in the shop/garage project car. I want a great performing car as a dependable daily driver. But something I can build on without having to buy or rent another vehicle.

i rebuilt my 67 stang in 30 days, it can be a DD, but its not cuz of the classic nature. Down to the frame and back up. 10hours a day after getting off my other job 8hrs a day. right now i am building the car i mention earlier, well without the TT, N/A its gonna be about 750+. you could do whatever as long as its in stages right? i do agree with the statement on find a trustworthy shop. i cant find any around me so i learned to do it all. As for tuning i'll tailor the **** 2 hrs away to get it done right, i would go 1k miles to get it done right.
so something liek
buy 96 cobra 13k
buy exhaust i dunno 1k ( i can run straight pipes)
buy SCT tuner 400
buy gears
you know something like that. and if a shop can get that kinda work done in a day they blow. and need to die. if me a poor ass redneck can pull a motor strip it clean it and have the small block assembled in 1 day and they cant they ned to look at who they hire.

ORIGINAL: Dan04COBRA

You are looking at it from a financial point of view.

I could go buy a 500 dollar Fox LX and spend 6500 on a drivetrain to absolutely mop the floor.

The MAJOR advantage to the 03/04 Cobra is that the BASE is already IN place. The forged internals & the bulletproof T-56. Unfortunately, not everyone has the time, patience or confidence to invest into a shop doing such a MAJOR overhaul. I don't have the patience for troubleshooting heavy modifications. I don't have the time to drive my car back and forth to a tuner.

Hawk never asked anything financially. BTW, you can get an 03/04 Cobra for less than a new Mustang GT right now. He never mentioned anything about acquiring a 2v GT either...

I was in my GT for 16,500. Figure 5k for a strong motor, 3.5k for a strong transmission including labor, plus 3.5k for a supercharger not including installation & a tune. $1500 for suspension modifications & installation. All for an unproven drivetrain that would likely have quirky issues that would need troubleshooting. Without a performance shop thats just a happy hop skip & jump away, it could be a very long & tedious process.

For me, it made sense to buy a car with a bulletproof drivetrain that is proven, covered under warranty & will always have a good value on the market. These kind of modifications on a GT would never be recovered if you were to attempt selling it unless you were willing to sit on it for a longggggggg time.


OK, i see it from that aspect.

I was comparing the new edge because Hawk mentioned comparing it to his 04 GT.

And the main reason i looked at it financially, cause most who i see/hear brag on Cobra an down on GT is because of power and handling, which is why i was like why not just take the money you didnt spend and dump it into the GT to how you want it.
I have my doubts on that "bulletproof" drivetrain tho....
Thanks Dan,
(for not kickin me nuts about this[8D])

:D

I agree with everything you said. Your ideas are good for someone who is looking for an older car to do whatever the hell they want with it and don't have a problem overhauling the car, which obviously is a more involved, definitely more fun but it's very time consuming and unless you are doing the work yourself...you need to feel comfortable in the abilities of the installers.

As for the questionable bulletproof drivetrain, the only questionable part is the IRS, which if you get a brace at the very least with a set of good tires...the IRS will hold up at the drag strip as long as the stock 8.8.

so this was /is his DD and he wants more power right?.....is it that hard to upgrade the 4.6's?

USM, it's not that hard to modify 4.6's.

The 2v 4.6 does not respond well to modifications without forced induction. It's a different story for 3v's & 4v's.

But if you are talking about how labor intensive it is to modify a 4.6, obviously it's a bit more complicated and confusing than a push-rod motor, but if you can hold a wrench and can think outside the box, it's not that difficult to work on one.

ok, well i learned something

I picked my 03 cobra for 20,000. I agree with Dan04Cobra. A lot of it is reliability aspect of the car. I was also interested in the looks of the car not to mention its uniqueness. The power gains of the car for a 4.6 are unmatched and dollar for dollar beat out any other 4.6. It's not necessarily just the potential of the car that you're buying when you buy a cobra.

i have a problem with that, i always see the potential of a car....i guess thats why i buy **** cars and fix them.