Posts: 2436
Joined: 5/13/2006 From: DBN, MI Status: offline
Hey Guys, on another site there is a guy who had Doug dyno his car with his head and cams done. I will print the post and link it although it will not go through due to site issues. But if you do a search for another 4.0 site you'll find it. It is from a guy who is running probably the most powerful X-charged car and took it off to get the head cam dyno. Doung was the guy dynoing the car. Well here you go.
quote:
well today Doug was out here on the west coast and I got to put my car on the dyno with him, many people have wondered what kind of numbers they might see with heads and cams, well today I found out what mine will do, the cam regrind was kept moderate when done back last winter but the heads were worked pretty good. my new numbers are 201rwhp/216rwtq. this is with the wiseco 8.8-1 pistons, cam regrind, head and valve work, headers, custom double "Y" exhaust with 12" glasspacks, stock injectors and airbox lid, Doug estimates probably another 20ish or so horsepower with some type of CAI, very interesting results to say the least, I am quite happy that I have these actual numbers, only wish I would have dynoed my car before I went crazy modding. LOL hope this helps clear up some questions for some, a more aggressive cam and higher compression ratio pistons would probably do more for a straight N/A car but mine was built for boost longevity.
< Message edited by rmays06 -- 10/24/2007 4:00:13 AM >
Posts: 2436
Joined: 5/13/2006 From: DBN, MI Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: banka87
That's some interesting info. I honestly expected more, but at least someone tried it haha
If yoy look at it thou, 170 to 201 is not a bad jump 30HP for heads and cam work is a nice gain, plus this is without a CAI or other mod bolt on gainers. His car wasn't running up to snuff either.
Team MF Member #028 Posts: 4032
Joined: 5/11/2005 From: Newark, DE USA Status: offline
Good post Ron.
When I read your subject line, I figured it would only be a matter of time before a NA 4.0L car went with new cams and heads (either aftermarket or ported & polished). Then I realized it was a curious X-charger owner doing us all a favor by taking the time to dyno his motor in NA configuration.
No need commenting on the results - they are what they are (ie - not optimized for a NA set-up). I would love to go this route myself, but the cost per HP is relatively high, and I'm not sure that my car's daily driver status would be as enjoyable if the power band shifts up the rpm range. Conversely, I already have 4.10's, and a cammed 4.0L does sound mean. Where's my checkbook again???
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Best 60' .... 1.906 Best 1/8 ... 9.141 @ 76.29 Best 1/4 ... 14.312 @ 95.67
Posts: 2436
Joined: 5/13/2006 From: DBN, MI Status: offline
The cost will remain high for a while and probably ever if Ford goes a differnt engine route with the Mustang in 2010. No one makes a blank cam and heads are not the easiest to fine. We are limited. Its great that someone did this and as Doug said if the car was running right with would have been more.....how much ????? For right now that ain't bad.
Posts: 1952
Joined: 6/13/2006 From: Detroit Status: offline
i too expected more but like ron said 170 to 201 is not a bad jump at all. i mean if you can pull out 225rwhp and 245rwtq like it probably would with a CAI thats not too bad. how muc hdid the cams, and heads run him ron?
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'05 4.0 ( auto) red fire Dyno tuned by Doug at Bamachips
you guys are missing the major thing here. This guy put down over 200rwhp with 8.8:1 CR pistons. Doug thinks there is another 20 in there with intake work, so let's say 215rwhp conservateively with 8.8:1 cr. 8.8 is very boost friendly but significantly lower than you want for n/a. Our stock pistons have a 9.7:1 CR which is a considerable difference. You could probably put down a good 10+ rwhp more with the stock pistons over the 8.8's n/a. This makes this information very good. 200rwhp n/a with the stock airbox and lower compression pistons could be good for >235rwhp with the stock pistons and a better intake.
edit: i just went and checked out the original post and noticed it's bscottie. So keep in mind here guys that this was an automatic car with a lower CR than stock, and cams that are better for a blown car. These are GREAT numbers imo. think about it this way-
201rwhp on an auto = 210ish rwhp on a manual + a solid 15+ with an intake, and im sure there is more left if he were to use a more n/a style cam. 235-240rwhp is doable.
< Message edited by 8cd03gro -- 10/24/2007 8:25:09 AM >
you guys are missing the major thing here. This guy put down over 200rwhp with 8.8:1 CR pistons. Doug thinks there is another 20 in there with intake work, so let's say 215rwhp conservateively with 8.8:1 cr. 8.8 is very boost friendly but significantly lower than you want for n/a. Our stock pistons have a 9.7:1 CR which is a considerable difference. You could probably put down a good 10+ rwhp more with the stock pistons over the 8.8's n/a. This makes this information very good. 200rwhp n/a with the stock airbox and lower compression pistons could be good for >235rwhp with the stock pistons and a better intake.
edit: i just went and checked out the original post and noticed it's bscottie. So keep in mind here guys that this was an automatic car with a lower CR than stock, and cams that are better for a blown car. These are GREAT numbers imo. think about it this way-
201rwhp on an auto = 210ish rwhp on a manual + a solid 15+ with an intake, and im sure there is more left if he were to use a more n/a style cam. 235-240rwhp is doable.
Hmph...As I think about it more in perspective, it makes a lot more sense. May be worth the cash down the road...
Posts: 2436
Joined: 5/13/2006 From: DBN, MI Status: offline
Clay thanks, said much better than I could have. I truely believe that these are good if not great numbers. If tuned right and put together specificly for an N/A car who know what you get and imagine the TQ numbers you could put down. Look past this HP number and see the potential here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 8cd03gro
you guys are missing the major thing here. This guy put down over 200rwhp with 8.8:1 CR pistons. Doug thinks there is another 20 in there with intake work, so let's say 215rwhp conservateively with 8.8:1 cr. 8.8 is very boost friendly but significantly lower than you want for n/a. Our stock pistons have a 9.7:1 CR which is a considerable difference. You could probably put down a good 10+ rwhp more with the stock pistons over the 8.8's n/a. This makes this information very good. 200rwhp n/a with the stock airbox and lower compression pistons could be good for >235rwhp with the stock pistons and a better intake.
edit: i just went and checked out the original post and noticed it's bscottie. So keep in mind here guys that this was an automatic car with a lower CR than stock, and cams that are better for a blown car. These are GREAT numbers imo. think about it this way-
201rwhp on an auto = 210ish rwhp on a manual + a solid 15+ with an intake, and im sure there is more left if he were to use a more n/a style cam. 235-240rwhp is doable.
Very strong results for a low CR and more left in the tune with some bolt ons. Good info.
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See this? THIS is my BOOM STICK! The 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. 10.9@122MPH w/4.0 V6 PH Turbo 5.4 swap in progress! www.rygen.net/stang
well its my car and I hope some of you guys find this interesting, something else besides what Ron and some others have mentioned is that I live in CA, my cam regrind was kept mild as I will have to have the car smog tested down the road, the cam guy actually called it an "emissions" grind
everybody is curious about costs, well unfortunately all we have is info from 2 sources for the most part and if you look at those costs it is fairly high, I strongly recommend going to a LOCAL builder and discussing specifically what your intentions are and get a motor builders input, if you let them do a majority of all the work and you can handle some of the labor this really isnt that expensive to do, if you only compare hp/dollar, it will make you run away. LOL
I have some more things I will be trying to do that may give everyone some more info before I put my X back on
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2005 Premium Satin Silver 4.0 V6, a few show and go mods
Posts: 2436
Joined: 5/13/2006 From: DBN, MI Status: offline
Bill thanks for doing this. There are tons of variables in this but to see numbers like that with what I consider and expert saying there is still 20 on the table is great. Yes HP/$$ is high but isn't it always. Add a tune and some other mods and where are you? 250 easy RWHP, not bad in my book. Thanks again.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bscottie
well its my car and I hope some of you guys find this interesting, something else besides what Ron and some others have mentioned is that I live in CA, my cam regrind was kept mild as I will have to have the car smog tested down the road, the cam guy actually called it an "emissions" grind
everybody is curious about costs, well unfortunately all we have is info from 2 sources for the most part and if you look at those costs it is fairly high, I strongly recommend going to a LOCAL builder and discussing specifically what your intentions are and get a motor builders input, if you let them do a majority of all the work and you can handle some of the labor this really isnt that expensive to do, if you only compare hp/dollar, it will make you run away. LOL
I have some more things I will be trying to do that may give everyone some more info before I put my X back on
Team MF Member #028 Posts: 4032
Joined: 5/11/2005 From: Newark, DE USA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: bscottie
well its my car and I hope some of you guys find this interesting, something else besides what Ron and some others have mentioned is that I live in CA, my cam regrind was kept mild as I will have to have the car smog tested down the road, the cam guy actually called it an "emissions" grind
everybody is curious about costs, well unfortunately all we have is info from 2 sources for the most part and if you look at those costs it is fairly high, I strongly recommend going to a LOCAL builder and discussing specifically what your intentions are and get a motor builders input, if you let them do a majority of all the work and you can handle some of the labor this really isnt that expensive to do, if you only compare hp/dollar, it will make you run away. LOL
I have some more things I will be trying to do that may give everyone some more info before I put my X back on
Bill, thank you for going through the effort to supply the rest of us with dyno numbers. It does shine hope for those of us thinking of doing heads & cams while staying NA. I did ask this eslewhere, but for those here, what did you have done to your heads?
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Best 60' .... 1.906 Best 1/8 ... 9.141 @ 76.29 Best 1/4 ... 14.312 @ 95.67
heads were ported and polished with a 3 angle valve job, cams were re-ground, and block bored 30k for the new Wiseco 8.8-1 pistons.
just an opinion of mine. after having the motor apart I have seen what I believe to be the biggest restrictions in our cars air system,
in order of what I see as the worst ;: no flaming, we are all entitled to our opinions. LOL
heads - car is "super low emmisions" they are a big restriction (also why the top landing has such tight clearances and thin deck thickness stock "Y" pipe - inlet to collector is bad design IMO stock airbox lid - very small maf muffler - enough said exhaust manifolds - there arent that bad intake manifold - design is ok for distribution but it is small, not much extra space for different design
I think the whole exhaust thing needs to be re evaluated for performance, not sound, we have all chased the "perfect sound" and not really given the performance side enough attention, I am in review of that and hope to have some solid info to back it up and give out some results later on.
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2005 Premium Satin Silver 4.0 V6, a few show and go mods
just winbdering, but, can ford tell easily if you have had your heads ported and polished, and cams reground other than if they take your engine apart?
Printable Version
Head and cam dyno numbers....(not mine) - 
