I had the 351M in an 80's F150 and always felt it was underpowered, pretty gutless. But I was used to my '78 with the 460. Later my Dad had a 97 with the 5.4L and it too was sluggish. But reading up on the truck enthusiast sites, it looks like the sport truck crowd has created quite a demand for this engine. Based on that, I'm still sure I'd rather have the 351C and the C-4 in a Mustang. I must admit though, the yards aren't full of 351C's.
was the M in the 80s truck swapped in? I had thought that the last year for the M was 78....
I am currently trying to finish an 83 Firebird with a 383 stroker chevy and a 400 trans. The chevy 400 trans is much heavier than a 350 chevy trans but can handle a lot more torque. And it does take 20 to 30 more ponies to run. I am relating the C6 to the 400 chevy. Being this will be a torque car rather than a high reving one to get power I think the C6 will hold up better. There is a trade off between power consumption and reliability. My Olds is a reving engine tied to a 350 trans I built up. It will squak the tires in all 3 gears but Hole shots are hard on it because the cam comes in so high. If I run some one it is always at a 20mph plus roll at least. So the goal is to have one car a high rever and the Mustang a low end hole shot punch good for a hariy 100 yards....Who runs more than that on the street ???Well there are times.......... You have asked why it is my last build.......I am 60 and one of the orginal Woodward runners..........What they do today on the Woodward cruse is BULL... Anyway the body is having a hard time of it due to past health issues that will not go away. So the Tang will take 2 to 3 years to fully restore and build up the drive train. Then I will just enjoy driving what ever one I am in the mood for. The Firebird will be something in between the Olds and the Mustang. That is if I can pay for the insurance on 3 and the gas be damned. I am sure this discussion will continue as we progress thru the build. In looking under the Mustang I see where there is a good chance for body twist on a hard hole shot. I have gotten two 2 by 4 inch "I" beams that I am going to run the length of the car. I have a C6 trans mount coming and when the engine and trans are in for a trial fit the cross members will be beefed up. Well something like that. Milling the heads and pistons should get me to 10 to 1 CR, then let the go juice do the rest. I am into radical and I drive them not show them sitting under an umbrella.So you know where I am at.
Most of my neighbors are around your age. I'm the neighborhood "kid" because I'm in my mid-forties. I love hearing the stories these guys tell about cruising, going fast, and their cars. There's a kind of debate going on now at home about my neighbor's 46 Ford. He's got two flat heads just sitting there on his back pad. I have a solid 289 with C-4 on a pallet. He want's to build up his car, but he's debating the merits of both engines. My position there was one of greed (no not selling him an engine, it's his if he wants it) I'd really love to help build a flathead.
We can debate all we want, and what comes out of it is just more information to make a decision, usually the one you were going to make in the first place
Now, if I could talk him out of the second flathead...I wonder kind of reaction that would get in the Mustang?
I know what you are talking about the new Woodward Cruise being bull compaired to what it was. I may just be 22 but my family and I being from Detroit know what the original woodward was about. My Dad is in his 60's also and he tells me about all the stupid stuff him and his friends did on that street back when he was my age. Now all it is is a big parade, you do get to see lots of nice old cars though.
Well the neighbor came down wanting to know if I got the "C" from the scrap yard. I said nope I could not pull it unless I dragged my lifter and all the other tools into the field. The thing is that yard calls in a shreadding out fit and all is ground up every fall. Eats whole cars. The owner got wacked with a 4 way heart bypass this week. He said take what you want. So hopefully 9 am tomorrow morning the three of us (all 60 plus plus) are going to get that cleveland. We should film this. Those 2 are not the mechincal type but good old friends. The 3 stooges at it in a field. This is the best part of being a gear head next to the first start up of a new engine build. (just running off the headers) Thanks for hanging in there. Here is a question on Woodward........What was the name of the 4 main cruse drive in eats on Woodward????
Elias Big Boy is one, Daly's not that popular.So 3 to go. all were drive ins. Here is another question......What magazine published an article on Woodward that started the community shut down of the crusing (cops)????? plus another social change that was escalating that affected the attitude of the youth at that time?
Between the 400m and the "c", are the cranks and rods forged for both? It was mentioned that the lowe end may be weak. Is not the casting the same if only the deck height is increased? which piston manufacture would be best for a forged, domed piston? I think the flat head in a mustang would be a Reilly novel idea. I would do it....I like to be different. Really like the late 40's and early 50's chopped Mercury with a flat head.
Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/18/2007 From: Las Cruces, NM Status: online
quote:
ORIGINAL: dgulian
Between the 400m and the "c", are the cranks and rods forged for both? It was mentioned that the lowe end may be weak. Is not the casting the same if only the deck height is increased? which piston manufacture would be best for a forged, domed piston? I think the flat head in a mustang would be a Reilly novel idea. I would do it....I like to be different. Really like the late 40's and early 50's chopped Mercury with a flat head.
I am just giving the info that I think I know, I am leaving the rest to others!
All Ford V-8 rods of the era are forged, some "C" cranks are forged, most are cast though. IDK about the bottom ends strength, but a main girdle would almost certainly help this area. IMO any major brand name piston maker should be good, I would make my selection based mostly on price among these major brands. The pistons we got for the Windsor are Keith Black, their pricing was very competitive, and the dish size was right for my compression ratio.
And Mercs rule, flatheads are bitchin...
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66 Coupe I-6 Conversion, 408 Windsor, Tremec TKO 600 Wilwood fronts, SSBC Rears 9" Track Loc.
Well the 351 "C" is home. It came out of a 4 wheeler and the guy would not let the trans go. I did get the fly wheel and clutch assembly. There was some water in the bottom of the oil pan. when we drained it the oil, water came first then black oil. I am hoping that the oil got in when we pulled the intake and heads last week. also the hood was buckled and rain got in. Usually the oil and water mix to a tan sludge if the engine is run with water in the oil. right???? There is no ring ridge or any sludge build up in engine so it must have been rebuilt. I will have to get out the bore gauge and see if it has been bored out. On the 6 cyl the ring gear is part of the torque converter and a is bolted to a metal plate (flex plate?) which I bought new for the 200 6 cyl. Can these be used on the 351 "C"??? with the C4 trans? The starter bolts up to the thrans bell hsg so the torque converter diameter must be the same from the 6 to the 351 "C" right??? if so then I have 3 choices. orginal 6 cyl and C4, 351m400 andC6 or 351 "C" and C4.
Ok the bore is 4.00 and the stroke is 3.5. The intake is about 1 inch narror than the 400 but the bell hsg pattern is for a C6 or???. Forget the C4 the bell is to small. What have I got now???
Is the bell hsg on a C4 different between a 6 cyl and a 351 C???? If so then would that not mean a different flex plate/torque converter? the two C4 trans I have are off 6 cyl engines.
Posts: 3152
Joined: 1/18/2007 From: Las Cruces, NM Status: online
quote:
ORIGINAL: dgulian
Is the bell hsg on a C4 different between a 6 cyl and a 351 C???? If so then would that not mean a different flex plate/torque converter? the two C4 trans I have are off 6 cyl engines.
The SBF bolt patern is for sure different than early sixes, I think the later sixes used the same as the SBF, but I dont think these were used until the mid 70s or early 80s.
While it does not expressly say so, my reading of my Ford Parts Interchange book leads me to believe that the 351C shared the same 50 oz imbalance with the 351W. There is one flexplate that works for both engines in the book. That said, the sixer flexplate is a neutral balance and therefore will not work. IDK about the torque converter, I would say if it bolts to the right flexplate,,, maybe....
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66 Coupe I-6 Conversion, 408 Windsor, Tremec TKO 600 Wilwood fronts, SSBC Rears 9" Track Loc.
Elias Big Boy is one, Daly's not that popular.So 3 to go. all were drive ins. Here is another question......What magazine published an article on Woodward that started the community shut down of the crusing (cops)????? plus another social change that was escalating that affected the attitude of the youth at that time?
Well my Dad and me cannot think about anymore drive ins, he's stuck on the first McDonalds being built in the city. The magazine, I'm going to go with Car and Driver they seem to be good and ruining things, talking bad about american cars now. The social change, I'm going with hippies and wanting to save the enviroment.
And I tried to read up about the bellhousing but apparently I found that it was a huge issue on what year it was, and heard the 351C chewed through C4's.
< Message edited by remicks -- 10/5/2007 9:42:22 PM >
early 60's on Vietnam took alot of the guys. I lost 6 buddies. the youthful feeling was gone. Life magazine did an article about the woodward scene, local law was embarresed and cracked down. The south end cruse joint was the ToeTem Pole, half way Big Boy and Mavericks, the north end just out side of Pontiac was Ted's.
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RE: which 351m/400 or 351 cleveland?? - 
Victoria 
???Well there are times.......... 
