Anyone ever notice that really anoying 1/2" or so of dead space in the gas pedal before the engine actually begins to rev?

My last car was a Subaru WRX with a cable throttle, I LOVED it, so responsive, so crisp.

Then I get my Mustang. The gas pedal is unresponsive, has load of dead space, and is a drivers nightmare.

Everyone always claims a tune helps their throttle response, so I purchased a Brenspeed C&L intake + SCT flasher combo. Unfortunately, 9 days after ordering it, no tracking # or item...

So today I'm at work thinking how I can mechanically remove that "dead space" in the gas pedal.

In my head, I picture the gas pedal module as being a carbon potentiometer, with a brush that is connected to the gas pedal, and moves, changing the resistance of the potentiometer, and thusly telling the ECU to open the throttle body.

Thinking some more, I decide to get my hands dirty.

I go in my footwell and look at my gas pedal. Simple enough, a black box with a plastic pedal coming out of it, three 10mm nuts, and 5 TORX screws holding a cover on the side, with an electrical connector and harness plugged into it.

I remove the three 10mm nuts, unclip the harness, and remove the entire pedal assembly.

Holding it my hand, I look at the cover, and take my T15 TORX driver and remove the cover. I pop the cover off, and VOILA to my assumption, a small circuit board, with a wedge shaped carbon film set of tracks, I think there are 6 to be exact.

I look at the inside of the gas pedal, and I see 6 little metal tabs, with about ten very fine metal wires, spot welded to the metal tabs, and bent up in a _/ shape to make contact with the carbon film on the circuit board.

I can clearly see a shiny track in the carbon on the circuit board where the metal brushes were rubbing against.

To my amazement, the track was starting about 2mm before the brush actually even TOUCHED the sensitive carbon part!!!

I take a pair of fine jewlers pliers, and bend each metal brush and tab just a few millimeters so that they will make perfect contact right on the edge of the carbon film.

I screw the cover back on, screw the gas pedal back onto the firewall and plug in the harness.

Start the engine, wait for the idle to drop. Perfect, idling around 700. I tap the gas pedal (with the tip of my TOE!)

and......






OH MY GOSH THE THROTTLE IS SO RESPONSIVE.

THE DEADSPACE IS GONE! ITS PERFECT!

It's amazing how such a small modification makes a HUGE difference in driveability and response.

If anyone wants pictures on how to do this, let me know.

Please digg my story!
http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means

Step 1:

Remove Three 10mm nuts holding gas pedal to firewall:
http://i1.tinypic.com/6d0fygk.jpg

Step 2:

Slide back red lock tab on connector:
http://i19.tinypic.com/63uy79f.jpg

Step 3:

Use flat head screw driver to press tab down inside of connector, and pull connector away from gas pedal assembly:
http://i11.tinypic.com/66tqemx.jpg

Step 4:

Take pedal assembly over to your workbench. Remove five TORX T-15 screws on electrical cover.
http://i13.tinypic.com/6fuezxc.jpg


Step 5:

Remove electronic cover: Notice how the circuit board says REV 1.0? That means they haven't revised this gas pedal assembly since they first used it back in 2005!!! (My car is a 2008!)
http://i6.tinypic.com/67grd47.jpg

Notice the circuit board with the wedge shaped carbon tracks. Notice the shiny marks on the tracks. See how they start slightly before the end of the gold track? That is your deadspace! Any movement before the very edge of the gold track will not be registered by the ECU!!!

THE ONLY WAY to fix this is mechanical adjustment. NO amount of tuning can remove this deadspace, it's simply impossbile!

Step 6:

Look at the pedal assembly. Notice the metal tabs and fine wire brushes? These are what we want to modify.
http://i6.tinypic.com/4pyeum9.jpg

Very carefully, bend the brushes up so that they don't have such a steep angular bend in their tips. I have already done this in these photos, so it's not apparent how sharp the bend in the wires were prior to me modifying them. They are like this _/ and you want them to be straighter so that they move closer to the edge of the brass/carbon track.

http://i9.tinypic.com/4xonhjs.jpg


Using some fine pliers, carefully bend the tips of the wires. These are VERY fine wires, be very careful.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4ml6kc3.jpg

Now bend the entire metal tabs up very slightly to compensate for the change in angle at the tips of the wires.

http://i9.tinypic.com/4tanz8m.jpg

More pictures of the wires:

http://i15.tinypic.com/6bml9gm.jpg


http://i12.tinypic.com/548jz44.jpg

Another shot of the circuit board:
Notice that by bending the wires, we are moving them closer to the edge of the carbon/gold seam. This removes the dead space.

http://i6.tinypic.com/5ymfxo9.jpg

Step 7:

Put the cover back onto the pedal assembly. NOTE: There is a rubber gasket that goes in the slot. MAKE SURE not to lose it, or crush it, this could cause your vehicle to accelerate uncontrolably! Screw the 5 TORX screws back in VERY CAREFULLY do not distort the cover, or you may bend the wires and cause bad ju ju.

http://i9.tinypic.com/6h5dybk.jpg


http://i9.tinypic.com/4l4nyg6.jpg
Re-install the pedal, and enjoy your new dead space free throttle!

I am not responsible if you ruin your 50$ gas pedal assembly by breaking off the fine wires, or over bending them.

PICTURES please!!! :)
sounds like a really awesome(free!) mod!!

umm.... dude this could be one of the most valuable write-ups here if you include pics of the procedure.

+1 for you my man, +1

Wow....POST PICS!!!!!!!!!!

If you go to Ford, they can adjust the pedal feel thru the ecu since its electronically controlled.

-AMS MIKE

Nice!

All aftermarket tunes I've had from b@ma have still had the same dead spot at the top of the pedal. Gets pics so we know what the heck to do!

Step 1:

Remove Three 10mm nuts holding gas pedal to firewall:
http://i1.tinypic.com/6d0fygk.jpg

Step 2:

Slide back red lock tab on connector:
http://i19.tinypic.com/63uy79f.jpg

Step 3:

Use flat head screw driver to press tab down inside of connector, and pull connector away from gas pedal assembly:
http://i11.tinypic.com/66tqemx.jpg

Step 4:

Take pedal assembly over to your workbench. Remove five TORX T-15 screws on electrical cover.
http://i13.tinypic.com/6fuezxc.jpg


Step 5:

Remove electronic cover: Notice how the circuit board says REV 1.0? That means they haven't revised this gas pedal assembly since they first used it back in 2005!!! (My car is a 2008!)
http://i6.tinypic.com/67grd47.jpg

Notice the circuit board with the wedge shaped carbon tracks. Notice the shiny marks on the tracks. See how they start slightly before the end of the gold track? That is your deadspace! Any movement before the very edge of the gold track will not be registered by the ECU!!!

THE ONLY WAY to fix this is mechanical adjustment. NO amount of tuning can remove this deadspace, it's simply impossbile!

Step 6:

Look at the pedal assembly. Notice the metal tabs and fine wire brushes? These are what we want to modify.
http://i6.tinypic.com/4pyeum9.jpg

Very carefully, bend the brushes up so that they don't have such a steep angular bend in their tips. I have already done this in these photos, so it's not apparent how sharp the bend in the wires were prior to me modifying them. They are like this _/ and you want them to be straighter so that they move closer to the edge of the brass/carbon track.

http://i9.tinypic.com/4xonhjs.jpg


Using some fine pliers, carefully bend the tips of the wires. These are VERY fine wires, be very careful.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4ml6kc3.jpg

Now bend the entire metal tabs up very slightly to compensate for the change in angle at the tips of the wires.

http://i9.tinypic.com/4tanz8m.jpg

More pictures of the wires:

http://i15.tinypic.com/6bml9gm.jpg


http://i12.tinypic.com/548jz44.jpg

Another shot of the circuit board:
Notice that by bending the wires, we are moving them closer to the edge of the carbon/gold seam. This removes the dead space.

http://i6.tinypic.com/5ymfxo9.jpg

Step 7:

Put the cover back onto the pedal assembly. NOTE: There is a rubber gasket that goes in the slot. MAKE SURE not to lose it, or crush it, this could cause your vehicle to accelerate uncontrolably! Screw the 5 TORX screws back in VERY CAREFULLY do not distort the cover, or you may bend the wires and cause bad ju ju.

http://i9.tinypic.com/6h5dybk.jpg


http://i9.tinypic.com/4l4nyg6.jpg
Re-install the pedal, and enjoy your new dead space free throttle!

I am not responsible if you ruin your 50$ gas pedal assembly by breaking off the fine wires, or over bending them.

Sweet i'm soooo looking forward to this......

BOOKMARKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont think ford can do this w/ the ecu bc what he is saying is that there is no electrical connection for the first 2 mm so any kind of electrical re calibration would notdo any justice....kinda confusing but not really..TACO BILL WHERE ARE YOU>>>>

I don't recall ever seeing this many people online in one post.....lol.

Tube that is awesome, very well done. Hey I noticed your in Ann Arbor, I'm in Howell. Maybe we could meet up and you can show me how to do this. That way I'll only hold you for $25 and not the full $50...joking :D

Updated post with pics. Scroll up!

haha but it is a great discovery for the s197 :)

Nice pics! I sorta wouldnt feel safe doing this, what if you over adjust and soon the wires hit and you go out of control?

Ill shutup. Maybe ill do it.

The ECU calibrates the throttle pedal every time you start the car. That's why it has 6 tracks, there are really 3 different sets of + and - carbon slides. I'm guessing it averages all three of the inputs and it zeros itself on start up within a certain range.

You really can't screw it up, short of breaking the wires off. The only thing you're trying to do is move them forward about a millimeter to get them off the brass backed carbon, and onto the actual resistance sensing part.

nice write up and it sounds good, i'm 99% sure i'd break something that small though[&:]

hmmmm ecu recalibrates on every startup? interesting. maybe ill try it and break it then.

Think I'll try this some time on saturday i'll let ya know how it turns out.

Would it be possible for you to label all of these "2mm" direction and "onto" "off of" directions? Then make a diagram of how the original brushes look in paint and where the after will be.

Seriously this is an INCREDIBLY important mustang mod, but also one that nobody wants to screw up. Labeling is a godsend here. Be very specific.

Finally, how was idel and low speed manuvering affected?

I think I'll try it Sunday too. Dealerships are open Monday right?;)

ORIGINAL: doctorj77

I think I'll try it Sunday too. Dealerships are open Monday right?;)


May be......

I was thinking of investigating this. I just didn't have the **** to do it. You're right though. NO amount of tuning could possibly compensate for a physical thing such as this. It's really odd that Ford hasn't revised this.

I think its because everyone with a GT has just accepted it as the way it is.. i don't know if the V6 guys and gals are affected the same way as well. I bet if a big enough stink was raised somthing would get done.

ORIGINAL: mightymouse

I think its because everyone with a GT has just accepted it as the way it is.. i don't know if the V6 guys and gals are affected the same way as well. I bet if a big enough stink was raised somthing would get done.
True, true. Just like that front-end thunk.

I'm really thinking I need to try this. Either this weekend or next.

ORIGINAL: MartyMoose

ORIGINAL: mightymouse

I think its because everyone with a GT has just accepted it as the way it is.. i don't know if the V6 guys and gals are affected the same way as well. I bet if a big enough stink was raised somthing would get done.
True, true. Just like that front-end thunk.

I'm really thinking I need to try this. Either this weekend or next.



Well i'll put up a post here on saturday after i do the fix and let ya'll know how it turned out.

i dont fully understand how the parts were bent. can you please make this much more clear before i destroy it?

i asked my friend if he had the lag on his v6 tonight. he said he definitely has lag as well.
Ford should put out a TSB or something.

IMHO Ford will NOT put out a TSB! They built it like this!!
I might just order one and do it then putinto my cars.

Great Tip, Find, and Write up! Thank you!

The lag will not get a TSB because it is not a fault. Its just a by product of drive by wire, and every car that has DBW has a lag of some type. It may be less pronounced but its still there.

Great discovery and write up. My tune eliminated virtually all of my lag, but it couldnt hurt to check this out. Some more detailed pics with labels and such would be nice as well, if someone gets around to doing it. Thanks Tube.

Tube thanks for the pics and write up - definitely great info! If anyone could post a pic of how the brushes look before modifying them I think that would help a lot of us prior to doing this.

People, PLEASE be careful when attempting this mod! The last thing I want to read about is some owner pushing his car through the backside of his garage, or worse.

There is a reason Ford designed them this way, not least of which is safety factor.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a GREAT mod, and I applaud the OP for having the prowess and finesse to pull it off! ;) Just take great care when performing this mod.

WOW!

I just drove to work.

It's so perfect, so crisp, just like a cable connection. Zero dead space.

I figured out that by doing this, I am also causing the ECU to recalibrate itself. This recailbration, along with the adjustment of the brushes gives for a VERY sensitive throttle.

If I tap the gas pedal with my toe, moving it maybe 1/16", the engine will rev about 50 to 100 rpm. It's extremely sensitive now.

This makes driving a lot easier, as starting off, I can use my toe to modulate the gas pedal while letting the clutch out, while before I was forced to use my entire foot to move the pedal, which made for unsmooth starts.

I can also now heel-toe and double clutch easier, as the throttle doesn't have that huge DEAD space in it now.

If someone wants, I can take a video of me touching the gas pedal very lightly and you can see how sensitive it is now.

Heres a drawing of how to bend the brushes. B is before, A is after.

http://i4.tinypic.com/5372haa.jpg

What the hell, I try it whats the worse to happen it breaks, alwell thats part of the r&d process right.

ORIGINAL: SonicBlue05GT

nice write up and it sounds good, i'm 99% sure i'd break something that small though[&:]


Yes my sentiments exactly.

Why do the f*ck does it come this way? I heard it was suppose to help with the throttle[&:] One thing a little off subject but sometimes my throttle surges at take off and I either have to floor it or just change gears.[&:] That was before I added the CAI and tune and just for clarification it still does it .

Watching this thread for more result postings ... cool ...

This really isn't something Ford wanted, it's just caused by the tolerances inside the circuit. Very small movements inside the box equate to relatively large movements of the pedal. By adjusting things inside to fit each specific pedal assembly individually, you regain the dead space in the pedal.

These entir pedal assemblys are only 44$ from an online parts place, if you're paranoid about breaking it, order two and modify one!

Now that's a sweet car.

http://homepage.mac.com/dmhines/mav/mystang.jpg

My question to readers is does your car surge as well?

Hmmm reminds me of the 99-04 gas pedal trick.Diden't think it would work for our stangs. Makes me wonder though. You did it for your stock stang right....and everything turned out great. Now one with a brenspeed tune the ecu is tuned and its for the one with the dead pedal. Would it still have the same effect?

ORIGINAL: tube
Heres a drawing of how to bend the brushes. B is before, A is after.

http://i4.tinypic.com/5372haa.jpg




So you basically take angle out? They're straighter after the mod?

Jeweler's pliers....those things look like you been skinning catfish with them. Anyway, I think we need to rename you. Something like Taco Tube. Nice job.

I'll do it on Sunday :Di hated my car just because i hate the Electric Throtle body. This sounds
excellente but i really thing that someone should come with a cable controlled T/B for our cars.

Thanks!!! now i have something to do. It's been some time since i don't do anything to my car :eek:

They started out as jewlers pliers... until I got to them!;)

Yes, essentially you're taking the angle out of the wires so that the tips of them are contacting a point further up on the carbon track. You really can't over do it, as the ECU will recalibrate once you start it for the first time.

Well I have to disagree about what some are saying. After my custom dyno tune my car is so responsive it wants to leap forward instantly when I touch the gas pedal. I have to be more aware in traffic so I don't rear-end a slow poke taking off at a light. I think this might be why Ford set it up the way they did so that people with less driving skill do not get into trouble. I understand your take on the mechanical aspect but in my case the car has become very responsive. It may be that there are variations in every car as these fine adjustments can create wide spread variations in performance.

ORIGINAL: wingman75

Well I have to disagree about what some are saying. After my custom dyno tune my car is so responsive it wants to leap forward instantly when I touch the gas pedal. I have to be more aware in traffic so I don't rear-end a slow poke taking off at a light. I think this might be why Ford set it up the way they did so that people with less driving skill do not get into trouble. I understand your take on the mechanical aspect but in my case the car has become very responsive. It may be that there are variations in every car as these fine adjustments can create wide spread variations in performance.










Could very well be. I know that after Vietnam, our boys came home with a pocket full of money (maybe not a pocket full) and bought Bosses and GT's and Mach's. Many ended up in the ditch dead. Something the Gooks couldn't do. It was determined that they were not used to driving beasts and couldn't handle them.

Can someone post the part # for the pedal assembly? I'd like to mod one out of car and then install it. Great find and thanks for sharing.

Thanks,

WOW... very inventive... and ingenious IMO.... don't know if I'll try it with the supercharger the car is very responsive already!!!

Very nice write-up.

I solved this problem another way. All I did was put a "spacer" on the
gas pedal arm, so when you take your foot off the gas it doesn't release
as far.Really just adjusting the stop postion of the pedal arm.

Thats essentially doing the same thing, but won't be as exact as actually adjusting the brushes. I thought about doing that but I knew there had to be a better way.

ORIGINAL: grampa_stang

Very nice write-up.

I solved this problem another way. All I did was put a "spacer" on the
gas pedal arm, so when you take your foot off the gas it doesn't release
as far.Really just adjusting the stop postion of the pedal arm.

I was just thinking the same thing. Can you post a pic and/or describe what you did - material/size/placement of spacer, etc?

ORIGINAL: tube


To my amazement, the track was starting about 2mm before the brush actually even TOUCHED the sensitive carbon part!!!

I take a pair of fine jewlers pliers, and bend each metal brush and tab just a few millimeters so that they will make perfect contact right on the edge of the carbon film.


Okay - let me make sure I understand this. Are the brushes:

1. ALWAYS in contact with the carbon part, and hiting the pedal just changes WHERE they are making contact...OR
2. NOT in constant contact, and when you hit the pedal they touch the carbon strip.

If it's 1 - how does changing WHERE they are in constant contact change throttle response? i.e why does that 2mm make a difference?
If it's 2 - wouldn't reducing the angle of the brushes INCREASE the distant between them and the carbon strips?

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: grampa_stang

Very nice write-up.

I solved this problem another way. All I did was put a "spacer" on the
gas pedal arm, so when you take your foot off the gas it doesn't release
as far.Really just adjusting the stop postion of the pedal arm.

I was just thinking the same thing. Can you post a pic and/or describe what you did - material/size/placement of spacer, etc?


I will. My JLT/Xcal/B ama tune is arriving today. So I'll do it then.
I'm actually going to re-do the spacer.I triedusing rubber at 1st...
but over time it became worn or actually "dented". So, I'm actually going
try using metal this time. But I will take some pics. It will not be as "clean"
as what Tube did...but it'll work. If you get under there with a good light
you'll actually be able to see what to do.

ORIGINAL: richmod

Okay - let me make sure I understand this. Are the brushes:

1. ALWAYS in contact with the carbon part, and hiting the pedal just changes WHERE they are making contact...OR
2. NOT in constant contact, and when you hit the pedal they touch the carbon strip.

If it's 1 - how does changing WHERE they are in constant contact change throttle response? i.e why does that 2mm make a difference?
If it's 2 - wouldn't reducing the angle of the brushes INCREASE the distant between them and the carbon strips?


It's #2. The distance isn't increased, think about it _| vs. _/

By flattening the angle, you move the brush tip out further, and bring it to the edge of the carbon strip.

ORIGINAL: tube

ORIGINAL: richmod

Okay - let me make sure I understand this. Are the brushes:

1. ALWAYS in contact with the carbon part, and hiting the pedal just changes WHERE they are making contact...OR
2. NOT in constant contact, and when you hit the pedal they touch the carbon strip.

If it's 1 - how does changing WHERE they are in constant contact change throttle response? i.e why does that 2mm make a difference?
If it's 2 - wouldn't reducing the angle of the brushes INCREASE the distant between them and the carbon strips?


It's #2. The distance isn't increased, think about it _| vs. _/

By flattening the angle, you move the brush tip out further, and bring it to the edge of the carbon strip.


So how does touching the strip closer to the edge help throttle response? You're not touching the strip SOONER, just farther out, right?

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: tube

ORIGINAL: richmod

Okay - let me make sure I understand this. Are the brushes:

1. ALWAYS in contact with the carbon part, and hiting the pedal just changes WHERE they are making contact...OR
2. NOT in constant contact, and when you hit the pedal they touch the carbon strip.

If it's 1 - how does changing WHERE they are in constant contact change throttle response? i.e why does that 2mm make a difference?
If it's 2 - wouldn't reducing the angle of the brushes INCREASE the distant between them and the carbon strips?


It's #2. The distance isn't increased, think about it _| vs. _/

By flattening the angle, you move the brush tip out further, and bring it to the edge of the carbon strip.


So how does touching the strip closer to the edge help throttle response? You're not touching the strip SOONER, just farther out, right?





If I am understanding all this, think of the carbon wedge as a dimmer switch. It regulates the amount of current and throttle response.

http://i3.tinypic.com/5y16dg4.jpg
Notice the gold box, that is the gold metal pad that makes contact with the edge of the carbon strip.

The first green X is where the brush originally touches. You can see, the brush doesn't even get to the sensitive part of the carbon strip (the part AFTER the edge of the gold box) for a few millimeters.

By bending the brush, we move it closer to the edge of the strip, which is the sensitive part of the carbon. This is where the second green line is. You want the brush to be near the second green X.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be exact, and you can't really over do it, as the ECU calibrates the gas pedal every time you start the car to account for wear of the brush, wear of the carbon, spring wear, etc...

I don't understand why the carbon patch directly on top of the gold contacts is any more or less reponsive ... what difference does it make? Although this mod may work ... perhaps the reason why is not 100% correct?

The patch of carbon on top of the gold pad is less sensitive because it has METAL underneath it, and that metal is making continuous contact with all of the carbon on top of it, negating its ability to act as a variable resistor.

Only AFTER the metal pad, is the carbon sensitive and acting as resistor.

ORIGINAL: dmhines

I don't understand why the carbon patch directly on top of the gold contacts is any more or less reponsive ... what difference does it make? Although this mod may work ... perhaps the reason why is not 100% correct?




Could be different thicknesses allowing more or less current to flow. Riostat?

Oh...if there was only a way to get a Fuel Injected engine as responsive as a carb.

I'm in agreement with you DMHINES. Where the pad contacts probably isn't the deciding factor here. I think the logic may be a little wrong. In giving it some thought, I have a different theory which relies on the ECU recalibrating. If you assuming that the ECU takes the initial resistance value as a zero point, a decrease in resistance results in an increase in acceleration. For simplicity lets say the ECU reads 25 ohms at the zero point. And let's say its programmed to divide this up into 25 "speed" selections (we know it's infinite, but this is for illustration). For every 1 ohm you decrease, you increase in speed by one selection. Now, let's say you move the pad placement further down. Now you're starting at say... 20 ohms instead of 25. Now, again the ECU divides it into 25 "speed selections" and we have 0.8 ohms decrease equals an increase of one speed selection. This means it takes less movement of thegas pedal to get the same increase in speed. You haven't removed the dead spot per say, you've increased the sensitivity of the pedal.

I think people are getting confused..... They're thinking 'throttle response'. That is wrong. That is something that can be improved with a computer tune.

What the original posted is talking about is actual physical dead space. Not a computer thing, but actual dead space. The brushes don't touch anything with the pedal not pressed. When it is pressed then it takes half an inch of pressure to cut through this physical dead space to even reach the contacts in the first place. That is what the original poster is trying to fix.

Ohnosaez, I'm in agreement. The title of the post is misleading. It's all about increasing the sensitivity of the pedal, not in adjusting your throttle response.

It's a rheostat.

ORIGINAL: kindred169

Ohnosaez, I'm in agreement. The title of the post is misleading. It's all about increasing the sensitivity of the pedal, not in adjusting your throttle response.



Yes and no. It is adjusting the response time of the throttle. If it turns on faster.......

The "surging" I think you're talking about happens with every manual Mustang... at least the V6's. Basically, if you're in true neutral (not just with the clutch depressed), and your car is still rolling, your idle revs will run up to 1500-2000 rpm. As soon as the vehicle stops moving, or when you press in the clutch, it drops back down to normal idle.

So far, no one has been able to eliminate this by tuning. I think the common understanding is that the car tries to keep the O2 sensors a certain temperature. As you may know, resistance increases as a circuit heats up. You may have exactly the same AFR exhaust running down your pipes, but if you measure the O2 signal at different temp ranges, you'll get different results. Therefore, the car is unable to make corrections accurately. The solution is to try and keep the O2 sensor an average temperature, that way, the resistance across the circuit is the same (or close to it) at all times. This allows for more accurate fuel trims corrections.

Think about it, the idle surge happens more in the first few minutes you drive the car. After a while, the surging slows down, or even stops.

ORIGINAL: Daniel60

My question to readers is does your car surge as well?

Need less to say i like the idea of just being able to just tap the pedal and the car responds rater than having to press the pedal to get a responce.

ORIGINAL: mightymouse

Need less to say i like the idea of just being able to just tap the pedal and the car responds rater than having to press the pedal to get a responce.






I agree. It is something you just get used to though. Ours has a slight hesitation when cold first thing in the morning. It is getting down to 40* now at night and it is just a littl cold blooded. We don't give it much warm up time. Just a back down the driveway and wait for the garage door to close. Once we get down to the stop sign, it goes away. I may try gramps' idea with the spacer first.

Anyone have any Ford documentation describing how this switch operates and how to test it ... this should show voltage #'s in correlation to throttle movement.

As far as ECU reset with every start... so you are saying that if I start the car with the throttle depressed 1/2 way down ... The ECU will adjust this to be closed throttle (idle)? Then when I let off the pedal I assume car will stall because it will go negative throttle?

ORIGINAL: dmhines

As far as ECU reset with every start... so you are saying that if I start the car with the throttle depressed 1/2 way down ... The ECU will adjust this to be closed throttle (idle)? Then when I let off the pedal I assume car will stall because it will go negative throttle?

Damn, sounds like an analog Nintendo controller. Your dude is running crazy all over the screen if you hold the joystick when powering on the system. Hahah.... That's ok in video games. Not so much in cars....

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

ORIGINAL: wingman75

Well I have to disagree about what some are saying. After my custom dyno tune my car is so responsive it wants to leap forward instantly when I touch the gas pedal. I have to be more aware in traffic so I don't rear-end a slow poke taking off at a light. I think this might be why Ford set it up the way they did so that people with less driving skill do not get into trouble. I understand your take on the mechanical aspect but in my case the car has become very responsive. It may be that there are variations in every car as these fine adjustments can create wide spread variations in performance.




My neighbor came home fromNamand bought a 69 corvette w/ a 427. Wrecked it. Then bought a 1970 Chevelle, SS454 and wrecked it. Just kept sliding off the road with them.






Could very well be. I know that after Vietnam, our boys came home with a pocket full of money (maybe not a pocket full) and bought Bosses and GT's and Mach's. Many ended up in the ditch dead. Something the Gooks couldn't do. It was determined that they were not used to driving beasts and couldn't handle them.

ORIGINAL: dmhines

Anyone have any Ford documentation describing how this switch operates and how to test it ... this should show voltage #'s in correlation to throttle movement.

As far as ECU reset with every start... so you are saying that if I start the car with the throttle depressed 1/2 way down ... The ECU will adjust this to be closed throttle (idle)? Then when I let off the pedal I assume car will stall because it will go negative throttle?






Something to think about. Go try it and report back if you're not in an ambulance.

ORIGINAL: wingman75

Well I have to disagree about what some are saying. After my custom dyno tune my car is so responsive it wants to leap forward instantly when I touch the gas pedal. I have to be more aware in traffic so I don't rear-end a slow poke taking off at a light. I think this might be why Ford set it up the way they did so that people with less driving skill do not get into trouble. I understand your take on the mechanical aspect but in my case the car has become very responsive. It may be that there are variations in every car as these fine adjustments can create wide spread variations in performance.




I agree, with my tunes the car is instantly responsive....there might be a small "gap" that the pedal goes down before it takes off, but hell if it wasnt there then i would probably be rear ended all the folks that let the car accelerated them off the line instead of using the gas......i would be very careful when doing this if you already have your car tuned properly.

ORIGINAL: blueshawk

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

ORIGINAL: wingman75

Well I have to disagree about what some are saying. After my custom dyno tune my car is so responsive it wants to leap forward instantly when I touch the gas pedal. I have to be more aware in traffic so I don't rear-end a slow poke taking off at a light. I think this might be why Ford set it up the way they did so that people with less driving skill do not get into trouble. I understand your take on the mechanical aspect but in my case the car has become very responsive. It may be that there are variations in every car as these fine adjustments can create wide spread variations in performance.




My neighbor came home fromNamand bought a 69 corvette w/ a 427. Wrecked it. Then bought a 1970 Chevelle, SS454 and wrecked it. Just kept sliding off the road with them.






Could very well be. I know that after Vietnam, our boys came home with a pocket full of money (maybe not a pocket full) and bought Bosses and GT's and Mach's. Many ended up in the ditch dead. Something the Gooks couldn't do. It was determined that they were not used to driving beasts and couldn't handle them.






I know. It got so bad that they took that blown stang on a tour of Nam to educate the boys on how to drive them. They even raced it down the flight deck of the MidwayI believe. That car sold on ebay a few years back. It was still a monster. They took 3 of em over there, but wrecked 2 of them. Helocoptor dropped one of them.

ORIGINAL: dmhines

Anyone have any Ford documentation describing how this switch operates and how to test it ... this should show voltage #'s in correlation to throttle movement.

As far as ECU reset with every start... so you are saying that if I start the car with the throttle depressed 1/2 way down ... The ECU will adjust this to be closed throttle (idle)? Then when I let off the pedal I assume car will stall because it will go negative throttle?


If you read what I said earlier, there is a LIMIT to how far it will calibrate. Just like with your car's fueling and O2 sensors, if the ECU sees the O2 sensor as reading lean, it will add more fuel UP TO A POINT. After that point, it will stop adding fuel, and throw a check engine light.

Because we are making such small changes, the ECU can compensate for the small change in resistance.

This is why there are SIX tracks, so the ECU can compare all the outputs from the pads, and calibrate the pedal. It would work just as well to only have one carbon track and one brush.

Anyway, this physically removed all deadspace from my pedal, worked perfectly for me. I'll take a video when I get home of how sensitive it is.

ORIGINAL: tube

ORIGINAL: dmhines

Anyone have any Ford documentation describing how this switch operates and how to test it ... this should show voltage #'s in correlation to throttle movement.

As far as ECU reset with every start... so you are saying that if I start the car with the throttle depressed 1/2 way down ... The ECU will adjust this to be closed throttle (idle)? Then when I let off the pedal I assume car will stall because it will go negative throttle?


If you read what I said earlier, there is a LIMIT to how far it will calibrate. Just like with your car's fueling and O2 sensors, if the ECU sees the O2 sensor as reading lean, it will add more fuel UP TO A POINT. After that point, it will stop adding fuel, and throw a check engine light.

Because we are making such small changes, the ECU can compensate for the small change in resistance.

This is why there are SIX tracks, so the ECU can compare all the outputs from the pads, and calibrate the pedal. It would work just as well to only have one carbon track and one brush.

Anyway, this physically removed all deadspace from my pedal, worked perfectly for me. I'll take a video when I get home of how sensitive it is.




Good answer.

3 of the tracks have a gold connector under the entire thing ....

Right, because those are the negatives, while the ones without gold underneath the entire thing are the actual resistors. There are really only THREE sets of resistors, as each one has a + and - connection. Truly you could just bend the brushes on the ones without gold underneath them and get the same effect, but you should do them all for consistency as you want them all to be at the same height so they rub the same.

Please DIGG my thread!

http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means

ORIGINAL: tube

Right, because those are the negatives, while the ones without gold underneath the entire thing are the actual resistors. There are really only THREE sets of resistors, as each one has a + and - connection. Truly you could just bend the brushes on the ones without gold underneath them and get the same effect, but you should do them all for consistency as you want them all to be at the same height so they rub the same.




I have to say, you are impressing the Hell out of me. What do you do for a living?

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo
I know. It got so bad that they took that blown stang on a tour of Nam to educate the boys on how to drive them. They even raced it down the flight deck of the MidwayI believe. That car sold on ebay a few years back. It was still a monster. They took 3 of em over there, but wrecked 2 of them. Helocoptor dropped one of them.


Ah the LAWMAN! Truly one bad ass Stang in every sense of the word. Goldberg (former wrestler?) owns the sole remaining Lawman now. The thing sounds almost like a Nitro Funny Car[8D]

local://upfiles/57663/3DEB6CDB7CCA4D869FAE8A0EEB826B0C.jpg

I work at CAR and DRIVER magazine, on the website. I'm here right now, actually!

DIGG MY THREAD

http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means

ORIGINAL: MTAS

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo
I know. It got so bad that they took that blown stang on a tour of Nam to educate the boys on how to drive them. They even raced it down the flight deck of the MidwayI believe. That car sold on ebay a few years back. It was still a monster. They took 3 of em over there, but wrecked 2 of them. Helocoptor dropped one of them.


Ah the LAWMAN! Truly one bad ass Stang in every sense of the word. Goldberg (former wrestler?) owns the sole remaining Lawman now. The thing sounds almost like a Nitro Funny Car[8D]

local://upfiles/57663/3DEB6CDB7CCA4D869FAE8A0EEB826B0C.jpg



That's it. I remember it was blue. Did he buy it off of ebay? I didn't stay with the auction to see if it brought the reserve. Imagine that thing flying down a flightdeck.

Lets see. Bend wipers. No thanks.
Install a new travel stop so the relaxed
travel is a few mm less. Hmmmmmm
Sounds like a better way instead of
bending wipers. Soon the carbon will
be worn away from too much pressure
from misbent wipers. Forget the lag,
how about the new dead spots and
undesired quirky response from missing
resistance material?
Put a travel stop on mine and now its
fully micro adjustable with no bending
of wipers. Hows that for a modified mod?

ORIGINAL: 01Steed

It's a rheostat.


No its not, its a potentiometer.

I don't see how bending the brushes so that they come out farther will make any differene in wear of the resistance material. It will probably make a difference after 500,000 miles. If it does before, then I'll buy a new pedal, its 44$.

The instant throttle response is worth it to me.

DIGG THIS

http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means

ORIGINAL: 157db

ORIGINAL: 01Steed

It's a rheostat.


No its not, its a potentiometer.



Thank you for that, however you miss quoted me. I added a ? behindmyguessas in I was asking a question.

Pedal part# - 4R3Z-9F836-BD

Same for both V6 and GT

ORIGINAL: tube

I don't see how bending the brushes so that they come out farther will make any differene in wear of the resistance material. It will probably make a difference after 500,000 miles. If it does before, then I'll buy a new pedal, its 44$.

The instant throttle response is worth it to me.

DIGG THIS

http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means





I agree. What's $44? It may wear, I repeat MAY wear more if the actual tips of the wipers (brushes) were rubbing on the carbon instead of the smoothness of the long part of them. Sort of like rubbing a cactus needle against your hand, or rubbing your hand against the actual point. Depends on how sharp-hard the tips are or how soft-hard the carbon is. Gotta be somewhat hard (carbon) for repeated use.

:Di'd buy 3 of them. do you guys see, that it just improves the delay of pushing the pedal a litle further.
if you say no! to this mod is like saying no! to a short trought shifter. works similar. i would defently do it
since my is an auto and from a roll i think it would really improve. even lauch the car you may be able to lauch a little better without power braking at the track. :eek:i know what im doing on sunday :D

Also, the pedal list is $55.

I like Rheostat more. Adjusts current and has to do with resistance. But then you knew that.:eek:

Thanks for the part #

Here it is for 43
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=214270 Search for the part number 4R3Z-9F836-BD that ted posted.

OUTSTANDING write up! Thanks for taking the time to share your discovery![sm=icon_cheers.gif]

Mark

Yes but more so if I have the cruise control activated but not turned on.

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

I like Rheostat more. Adjusts current and has to do with resistance. But then you knew that.:eek:


Exactly! It's the same as your i/p dimmer "switch", which is a rheostat. The closer you get to one end, the less resistance there is.

WTF - I can't get my head around this. I'm gonna have to go in there and take a look at this thing. What I can't grasp is exactly how these brushes are moving ACROSS the strips when your pushing DOWN on the pedal. I know there will be some lateral brush movement as the brush arm flattens. So how does FLATTENING the brush INCREASE it's lateral movement? Or is it just SHIFTING the area of lateral movrment, while keeping the area the same?

Which way does the brush move across the strip when you press the pedal - TOWARD the gold plate or AWAY from it?

We are just changing where the brushes contact the track. In essence moving the entire track down a little.

Do you want to hear me complain about the magazine makeover? No I really like C&D. Been a subscriber for over 25 years. I like your throttle mod too.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

We are just changing where the brushes contact the track. In essence moving the entire track down a little.

So where is the initiall point of contact - closest to the gold plate or farthest? In other words - Which way does the brush move across the strip when you press the pedal - TOWARD the gold plate or AWAY from it? If the initial point of conact is AWAY from the gold plate and the brush moves TOWARD it, then WOT would be the exact opposite of your picture - it would be over the gold plate. If the brush initially STARTS over the gold plate and moves away from it, my problem there is - how is this physically possible given the position of the brushes?

I thinkI need to see a diagram of exactly how this whole apparatus works. The pictures just aren't cutting it for me.

ORIGINAL: 157db

Lets see. Bend wipers. No thanks.
Install a new travel stop so the relaxed
travel is a few mm less. Hmmmmmm
Sounds like a better way instead of
bending wipers. Soon the carbon will
be worn away from too much pressure
from misbent wipers. Forget the lag,
how about the new dead spots and
undesired quirky response from missing
resistance material?
Put a travel stop on mine and now its
fully micro adjustable with no bending
of wipers. Hows that for a modified mod?


That would be fine logic but they WILL wear out no matter what. Probably a little sooner with the mod but in the end, it will wear out.

It's a nice discovery, I guess, but I don't really see what it gives? Like the clutch or brake bite points, the gas pedal is just something you get used to.

- Unless of course you go to meetings where these things are measured, with an award for the person with the least amount of dead pedal [&:]

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: acrokat

We are just changing where the brushes contact the track. In essence moving the entire track down a little.

So where is the initiall point of contact - closest to the gold plate or farthest? In other words - Which way does the brush move across the strip when you press the pedal - TOWARD the gold plate or AWAY from it? If the initial point of conact is AWAY from the gold plate and the brush moves TOWARD it, then WOT would be the exact opposite of your picture - it would be over the gold plate. If the brush initially STARTS over the gold plate and moves away from it, my problem there is - how is this physically possible given the position of the brushes?

I thinkI need to see a diagram of exactly how this whole apparatus works. The pictures just aren't cutting it for me.


Take a look at the pic I posted on Page 5. I was asking a question when I modified it. The white circles are where the brushes are located when your car is at idle. The black circles are where your brushes are located at WOT.

ORIGINAL: Derf00

ORIGINAL: 157db

Lets see. Bend wipers. No thanks.
Install a new travel stop so the relaxed
travel is a few mm less. Hmmmmmm
Sounds like a better way instead of
bending wipers. Soon the carbon will
be worn away from too much pressure
from misbent wipers. Forget the lag,
how about the new dead spots and
undesired quirky response from missing
resistance material?
Put a travel stop on mine and now its
fully micro adjustable with no bending
of wipers. Hows that for a modified mod?


That would be fine logic but they WILL wear out no matter what. Probably a little sooner with the mod but in the end, it will wear out.


This may be true, but Ford has life-cycle tested these to last x amount of cycles. This mod may prematurely wear them. How much is anyones guess.

BTW, I think I like "pot" better than "rheo". More sensitivity with a "pot".

ORIGINAL: marcuskeeler

It's a nice discovery, I guess, but I don't really see what it gives? Like the clutch or brake bite points, the gas pedal is just something you get used to.

- Unless of course you go to meetings where these things are measured, with an award for the person with the least amount of dead pedal [&:]


I cat tell you how many times I have jerked my car when shifting becauseI have the pedal resting in the "dead zone". It's not a bad jerk but it's enough to piss me off when I shift. Realistically I am just being lazy when I am shifting; not paying attention. If I can improve my shifting while being lazy and learn a little about my car in the process then I am all for it. I just had one question which is listed on page 5. Someone please answer it [:@]

ORIGINAL: marcuskeeler

It's a nice discovery, I guess, but I don't really see what it gives? Like the clutch or brake bite points, the gas pedal is just something you get used to.

- Unless of course you go to meetings where these things are measured, with an award for the person with the least amount of dead pedal [&:]
*whispering* Pssssst, hey guys, be quiet, here he comes. Lets not tell him about our secret club meetings. shhhhhhh.

Okay, I think Isee how the throttle works now. That little plastic circle at the end of the black housing carbon strip part AND the end of the whitehousing acts as a hinge (or axis), When you press the pedal, the whole whitehousing slides rotates around that axis thus sliding the brushes across the carbon strips . Correct?

If I'm right about how the throttle works, then the brushes are ALWAYS in contact with the carbon strip. this mod is only changing WHERE the brushes are in contact with the strip. The theory is that somehow if the brushes start above the gold plate instead of a few mm to the right of it, somehow that decreases throttle delay, supposedly because that area of the strip is more "sensitive". But sensitive to what - movement of the brush? Meaning, in that area above the gold plate, it would take less brush movement to illicit the same amount of throttle response than it would elsewhere? I don't get it.The maximumdistance traveled by the brushes across the strip is still the same, just shifted. Seems to me the ECU would just account for this shift and just make the new position it's new "normal". Enlighten me please someone/

ORIGINAL: 01Steed

ORIGINAL: Derf00

ORIGINAL: 157db

Lets see. Bend wipers. No thanks.
Install a new travel stop so the relaxed
travel is a few mm less. Hmmmmmm
Sounds like a better way instead of
bending wipers. Soon the carbon will
be worn away from too much pressure
from misbent wipers. Forget the lag,
how about the new dead spots and
undesired quirky response from missing
resistance material?
Put a travel stop on mine and now its
fully micro adjustable with no bending
of wipers. Hows that for a modified mod?


That would be fine logic but they WILL wear out no matter what. Probably a little sooner with the mod but in the end, it will wear out.


This may be true, but Ford has life-cycle tested these to last x amount of cycles. This mod may prematurely wear them. How much is anyones guess.

BTW, I think I like "pot" better than "rheo". More sensitivity with a "pot".





I was lucky to pull that one out of memory that hadn't been touched in 35 years, even with the bad spelling.:D

ORIGINAL: tube

The patch of carbon on top of the gold pad is less sensitive because it has METAL underneath it, and that metal is making continuous contact with all of the carbon on top of it, negating its ability to act as a variable resistor.

Only AFTER the metal pad, is the carbon sensitive and acting as resistor.



Definitely related to Taco Bill......

[sm=hail.gif][sm=hail.gif][sm=hail.gif][sm=hail.gif][sm=hail.gif]

thie is great.just ordered new pedal and will try when it comes.TUBE,[sm=massbounce.gif][sm=groupwave.gif] GREAT POST,YOU HAVE MY GRAITUDE.wish c&d was more into every day cars,but the high dollar ones are great.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


DIGG MY THREAD!!!!!!! RAR!!
http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means/
MAKE A DIGG ACCOUNT !

Anyway, because you are bending the tabs so they go forward, there is no problem at WOT, as the brush just comes and makes contact with the WOT side brass pad area, and the ECU automatically opens the throttle 100% there anyway.

ORIGINAL: marcuskeeler

It's a nice discovery, I guess, but I don't really see what it gives? Like the clutch or brake bite points, the gas pedal is just something you get used to.

- Unless of course you go to meetings where these things are measured, with an award for the person with the least amount of dead pedal [&:]


it works just like a short trough shifter. if the distance from 1 to 2 is shorten you can shift quicker
here if the the brush touchs the carbon quicker it tells the ecu to open the T/b quicker. you are just
getting rid of the gap. like olf stile cables you use to shorthen the cable and make tight so when you accelerate it is more sensible. imagine we all have a loosen cable, this is the electronic way of making
it tight and NICE!

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for answering :)


ORIGINAL: tube

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


DIGG MY THREAD!!!!!!! RAR!!
http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means/
MAKE A DIGG ACCOUNT !

Anyway, because you are bending the tabs so they go forward, there is no problem at WOT, as the brush just comes and makes contact with the WOT side brass pad area, and the ECU automatically opens the throttle 100% there anyway.

ahahaha This Sounds like Fun!

Put the cover back onto the pedal assembly. NOTE: There is a rubber gasket that goes in the slot. MAKE SURE not to lose it, or crush it, this could cause your vehicle to accelerate uncontrolably! Screw the 5 TORX screws back in VERY CAREFULLY do not distort the cover, or you may bend the wires and cause bad ju ju.

Yup, any questions i'll try to answer to the best of my ability.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for answering :)


ORIGINAL: tube

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


DIGG MY THREAD!!!!!!! RAR!!
http://digg.com/motorsport/Improving_Drive_By_Wire_Throttle_Response_Though_M echanical_Means/
MAKE A DIGG ACCOUNT !

Anyway, because you are bending the tabs so they go forward, there is no problem at WOT, as the brush just comes and makes contact with the WOT side brass pad area, and the ECU automatically opens the throttle 100% there anyway.




Well, that doesn't make sense to me. If you're adjusting the brush closer to one edge of the carbon strip intially, then the end point of the brush at WOT would have to be FARTHER from the other end of the strip. If the "side brass pad area" is in reality the WOT area as you say, then you would not be reaching there anymore after the brush adjustment. Correct?Not trying to be confrontational, just truly trying to get a grasp on this.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


Exactly. Thats why the travel stop works much better than the bending method.
"Open thyn eyes for the sake of being blinded by the light."

By the edge of the strip, I mean the edge TOWARD the center of the board. The edge immediatlely in front of the gold pad, which the carbon is sprayed onto. We want the area right at the seam of the edge of the gold pad.

You want the brush to be right at the green line for minimum dead space.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4z4phts.jpg

ORIGINAL: tube

By the edge of the strip, I mean the edge TOWARD the center of the board. The edge immediatlely in front of the gold pad, which the carbon is sprayed onto. We want the area right at the seam of the edge of the gold pad.

You want the brush to be right at the green line for minimum dead space.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4z4phts.jpg


From that picture, it looks like the brush marks ARE at that green line. So how does your mod affect this?

The brush marks are very slightly back behind the line. That very slight difference on the circuit board, equates to a huge movement of the gas pedal. It's all about leverage, think about it. The slight bending of the brushes gets rid of that space between the green line and the former brush marks.

+1??

This is all making sense to me up to the point of WOT. Since this is a mechanical issue, the brushes are designed to start at one point and end at another. By bending the brushes, the contact is made sooner giving a better pedal response, but it will also stop the brushes earlier at the other end due to the new angle. Would the ECA compensate for this or are we robbing fuel at WOT by not allowing the brushes to continue to the originally designed spot at the end of the strip?

ORIGINAL: tube

The brush marks are very slightly back behind the line. That very slight difference on the circuit board, equates to a huge movement of the gas pedal. It's all about leverage, think about it. The slight bending of the brushes gets rid of that space between the green line and the former brush marks.

So looking at the picture, the brushes START in the area of the green line and move left on pedal depression, correct? if so, then the brush marks start to the LEFT of your green line. By bending them the way you suggest, that would make them start EVEN FARTHER LEFT than the green line. If the green line is the optimum starting point as you suggest,flattening the brushes would make thingswould make things worse. ?!?!?!?!!?!

Nothing is different at WOT, in fact, theoretically it would be a more consistant full throttle after the brushes were bent. You see, once the brushes get to the end of the carbon strip, they run into those gold pads, and once the brush is over the top of the gold pads on the other side, the ECU will always send the WOT signal to the throttle body.

ORIGINAL: scramblr

This is all making sense to me up to the point of WOT. Since this is a mechanical issue, the brushes are designed to start at one point and end at another. By bending the brushes, the contact is made sooner giving a better pedal response, but it will also stop the brushes earlier at the other end due to the new angle. Would the ECA compensate for this or are we robbing fuel at WOT by not allowing the brushes to continue to the originally designed spot at the end of the strip?


I was thinking this also when someone else mentioned it.....dont know how to test the WOT part easily though.

ORIGINAL: scramblr

By bending the brushes, the contact is made sooner giving a better pedal response...
But it's NOT made sooner..there is ALWAYS contact. the brushes don't lift off the strip, they stay in contact with the strip and slide across it. bending the brushes changes WHERE they contact the strip, not when.

ORIGINAL: 157db

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


Exactly. Thats why the travel stop works much better than the bending method.
"Open thyn eyes for the sake of being blinded by the light."



What are you proposing ?

For those of you like me who want to give this a try but want to do it from a fresh slate and not f' up your stock unit, here is a good resource very cheap to get a unit to play with...

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=213787


(Just enter part # 4R3Z-9F836-BD in the field)

ORIGINAL: kleistang

ORIGINAL: 157db

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I have a question.

By changing the angle of the brushes, we are changing the area where the brushes contact the track. My question is what happens if we adjust these brushes too far and they contact the Plates on the other side of the track. this would happen under a WOT scenario. I have modded your pic to clarify my question.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8905/67grd47df2.jpg


Exactly. Thats why the travel stop works much better than the bending method.
"Open thyn eyes for the sake of being blinded by the light."



What are you proposing ?
He's proposing the spacer in the pedal - similar to the sn95 mod to take out some of the cable slack.

I'd like to see a writeup of the spacer mod with similar detail quality as the OPof this thread. There seems to betwo viable options to accomplishing the same task - maybe.

One more time.
Add a stop to the travel and dont bend the brushes.
A 4-40 bolt and nut. Easily adjustable once its
installed without removing the pedal or taking
the case apart. I have had mine stopped for
months now before I joined the forum and
didnt think anyone here cared about the dead
spot in the accelerator pedal or I would have
posted the stop bolt mod.
Stop bolt modkills the WOT problem whether
there is one or not with the bending method.
I just limit where the pedal is at rest.:D

seems like a job for MYTHBUSTERS

ORIGINAL: 157db

One more time.
Add a stop to the travel and dont bend the brushes.
A 4-40 bolt and nut. Easily adjustable once its
installed without removing the pedal or taking
the case apart. I have had mine stopped for
months now before I joined the forum and
didnt think anyone here cared about the dead
spot in the accelerator pedal or I would have
posted the stop bolt mod.
Stop bolt modkills the WOT problem whether
there is one or not with the bending method.
I just limit where the pedal is at rest.:D
That's nice. Got a pic? 'Cause you just set yourself up for the[sm=ttiwwp.gif]Besides, I'm too lazy to go look at my pedal.:eek:

I made some more diagrams on what the proposed change is:

THIS IS WHAT WE START WITH:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1331/whatwehavecg5.jpg
The reason that we have a dead zone on the pedal is because the brushes are contacting the grey strip where it is on top of the brasscontact.When the brush is anywhere over the brass contact the resistance will be the same. Therefore the ECU cannot detect any travel in the pedal.

THIS IS THE GOAL:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4249/whatwewantio2.jpg
When the brushes are relocated to a point forward of the brass contact, the resistance is measurable again. therefore we no longer have the deadzone in our pedals.




This is a tricky mod. If you do it correctly it is free. As described, this IS the cause of the dead zone in our pedals. It would make sense to correct this problem directly.

If you change the resting point on the pedal as others have described, you are effectively accomplishing the same goal by restricting the pedals ability to return to its original resting point. this is an indirect method to correct the same problem. It would be easier and potentially safer if you do not feel comfortable messing with electronic parts.

ORIGINAL: howarmat

I was thinking this also when someone else mentioned it.....dont know how to test the WOT part easily though.



A good way to test if you're actually in WOT is to hook up a Diablo or SCT tuner and log your short-term fuel trims. At WOT, they should be at 24% (ie: open loop).

Wow nice diagram!

I just didn't do the pedal stop because it is INDEED more complicated, you must drill tap, add an a adjustment screw, make sure its not causing your idle to rev up, etc. This is 3 nuts, 5 screws, and a pair of pliers. It honestly took me 20 minutes the first time, AND THEN I took it all apart again to take pics, which took 15 minutes TOTAL.

You can't screw this up, as long as you don't bend the wires off, and you simply flatten the bend in them, put the cover back on, and drive! The ECU will calibrate itself for any variance in the resistance, so your bends don't have to be exact, or perfect, they just need to move the brushes a millimeter or so.

Idon't understand how so many people can't understand this concept. It is very simple and ingenius. I always wanted to rip that thing appart to see how it ticks. It reminds me of the old RC car mechanical speed controllers. We are simply adjusting the "trim" of the throttle to increase the point of action.

Here is a pic of a mechanical speed controller so you can see the similarities:

http://www.dansdata.com/images/ta04/spdcont400.jpg

Almost all electrical applications use similar devices to this...for example; a power drill, or even the volume knob on a radio.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I made some more diagrams on what the proposed change is:

THIS IS WHAT WE START WITH:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1331/whatwehavecg5.jpg
The reason that we have a dead zone on the pedal is because the brushes are contacting the grey strip where it is on top of the brasscontact.When the brush is anywhere over the brass contact the resistance will be the same. Therefore the ECU cannot detect any travel in the pedal.

THIS IS THE GOAL:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4249/whatwewantio2.jpg
When the brushes are relocated to a point forward of the brass contact, the resistance is measurable again. therefore we no longer have the deadzone in our pedals.




This is a tricky mod. If you do it correctly it is free. As described, this IS the cause of the dead zone in our pedals. It would make sense to correct this problem directly.

If you change the resting point on the pedal as others have described, you are effectively accomplishing the same goal by restricting the pedals ability to return to its original resting point. this is an indirect method to correct the same problem. It would be easier and potentially safer if you do not feel comfortable messing with electronic parts.

Awesome - that clears it up for me. Nice job - thanks!.

Well I for one am doing this mod when I get my car back next week. There is no debate fellas' - this is just an ingenious idea to get better performance out of a factory part.

I want to thank you for sharing this with us as I would have never thought of it on my own...[sm=icon_cheers.gif]

If some of you are skeptical, then just don't do it...simple.

I'm hoping to hear feedback from others after they've made the adjustment and see how noticeable the effect was to a range of people. I will for sure comment after I've done it...;)

Great, now I gotta grow the balls to go rip this thing out too. You guys are killing me on this forum!!!!

Awesome writeup and thank you for taking the time to explain it so throughly.

The crappiest part is this thread will be 2453 pages long by the time I'm back from a weekend away.

Here's a video of my throttle response AFTER the mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBdPJkG0pU

Turn your volume up, and watch how little I move the pedal, and listen to the engine rev. It's only revving about 100 rpm.

I'll explain my question using my diagrams and why Tubes answer makes sense:

My question was what would happen of the brush were to come in contact with the brass contact on the other end of the Carbon Strip:

Originally our brushes would stop short of the other brass strip like so:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6301/endibz8.jpg
My question was: "What happens if the brushes come in contact with the carbon above the brass contact?" Like so:
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6854/endiiug6.jpg

This is a simple electric circuit designed to measure resistance. When the brushes are at the idle position there is a large ammount of resistance between the brush and the brass contact @ WOT. As we push the gas pedal down the brushes move closer to the Contact at WOT and the resistance becomes less and less. Our ECU notes the resistance and adjusts the throttle body accordingly. Tube is correct in stating that it does not matter where the brush ends up. I would refine that to state that it doesnt matter AS LONG AS the brush is still in contact with the carbon strip.

As stated above, whenever the brushes are above the brass contact, the resistance is the same. OUR ECUs will measurethis small ammount of resistance and open the throttle to full position. In both picures the brushes are close to the brass contact with only a small strip of carbon separating them. The resistance will be very similar from the brushes in either position.

You will create a dead zone in your pedal in the WOT position where 95%-100% of the way downwill not make anychange in the throttle position. From what I read a while back on these very forums, our cars are WOT by 80%-90%of pedal travel anyway.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

I made some more diagrams on what the proposed change is:

THIS IS WHAT WE START WITH:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1331/whatwehavecg5.jpg
The reason that we have a dead zone on the pedal is because the brushes are contacting the grey strip where it is on top of the brasscontact.When the brush is anywhere over the brass contact the resistance will be the same. Therefore the ECU cannot detect any travel in the pedal.

THIS IS THE GOAL:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4249/whatwewantio2.jpg
When the brushes are relocated to a point forward of the brass contact, the resistance is measurable again. therefore we no longer have the deadzone in our pedals.




This is a tricky mod. If you do it correctly it is free. As described, this IS the cause of the dead zone in our pedals. It would make sense to correct this problem directly.

If you change the resting point on the pedal as others have described, you are effectively accomplishing the same goal by restricting the pedals ability to return to its original resting point. this is an indirect method to correct the same problem. It would be easier and potentially safer if you do not feel comfortable messing with electronic parts.


Thanks for the diagram, it really helped me to understand exactly what the end result should look like. And Tube, thanks for devising this mod to begin with!

I do have a question on which I would like reassurance: It was stated that when the wires contact the portion of the carbon that contains metal underneath, no resistance change is detected, and thus the engine remains at idle. However, if we move the "default" position of the wire to a point where a slight resistance change is constantly detected, wouldn't this induce the engine to no longer default to a true idling speed, and thus always idle at a higher than typical rpm?

Or does the ECU compensate for the constant resistance change by the aforementioned self re-calibration?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

ORIGINAL: richmod

ORIGINAL: scramblr

By bending the brushes, the contact is made sooner giving a better pedal response...
But it's NOT made sooner..there is ALWAYS contact. the brushes don't lift off the strip, they stay in contact with the strip and slide across it. bending the brushes changes WHERE they contact the strip, not when.


Got it, I was thinking the bend and not the tip of the brushes ran against the carbon strip.

So based on the diagram from acrokat (great pic by the way), the brushes will then go further down the carbon strip than originally designed, no? Will that have any + or - effects at WOT?


***EDIT: This was answered in post 144...dang, these posts are coming quick. In theory I understand the answer. Tube...have you gone WOT and noticed any difference?

ORIGINAL: tube

Here's a video of my throttle response AFTER the mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBdPJkG0pU

Turn your volume up, and watch how little I move the pedal, and listen to the engine rev. It's only revving about 100 rpm.






Can't get much plainer than that. You should have been an electrical engineer.:)

Something that was glossed over that I'd like to bring to everyone's attention again. If you do this mod, the brushes really only need to move about 1mm. Look closely at this picture and you can see how far they actually need to be moved. It looks like the start of brush contact is the green line but it is slightly above. That LITTLE amount is all you have to bend the brushes.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4z4phts.jpg

The “dead zone” that we are talking about is not the same on all cars. My engine RPM comes off idle after pressing the throttle about 1/8” on my 07. Other owners have as much as ½” movement.

It really doesn't matter where the brush ends up, even if it touches the gold pad, as the resistance is the same at the edge of the pad on the carbon, and on the pad itself, (the difference is like .01 ohm, and the ecu doesn't even register that).

http://i11.tinypic.com/5xij4gh.jpg

I'm gonna do it right now.

Do it! And please let us know how it goes for you.

Remember, you only have to grab the end of the brush, and squeeze it in the tip of your pliers to remove the sharp bend from it.

Tube, this looks like a great way to eliminate dead space in the initial response, and electronically it makes sense. Does this also help with the lag in decrease of rpms (dashpot? I think it's called?) Having the rpms hang up high is driving me nuts as well, and it is not clear to me on the video or from comments if the rpm return lag is helped by this. Can you or someone comment on this? Thanks.

Sleeper2

ORIGINAL: tube

Do it! And please let us know how it goes for you.

Remember, you only have to grab the end of the brush, and squeeze it in the tip of your pliers to remove the sharp bend from it.



Then head to the dealership when it all goes to s$it and
get a new throttle. But wait, there is a 4 week backorder
on that part........
If I messed mine up, it would be walkin time to the stealership.
I wanted the reliability. Future posts down the road -
I did the throttle bend mod and it screwed up at the worst
time........ raining, date, had to be at work on time, etc.

ORIGINAL: sleeper2

Tube, this looks like a great way to eliminate dead space in the initial response, and electronically it makes sense. Does this also help with the lag in decrease of rpms (dashpot? I think it's called?) Having the rpms hang up high is driving me nuts as well, and it is not clear to me on the video or from comments if the rpm return lag is helped by this. Can you or someone comment on this? Thanks.

Sleeper2


I doubt that the 2 problems are related. the only way the hang in RPMs coulbe the result of this circuit would be if the pedal did not return immediatly when you stopped pressing on it. The hang is more likely built into the ECU.

I read somewhere that the hang was built in to our cars in order to assist in emmisions.

154 posts in 14 hours. This has got to be one of the fastest moving threads since Alan Soto was crucified.

ORIGINAL: 157db

ORIGINAL: tube

Do it! And please let us know how it goes for you.

Remember, you only have to grab the end of the brush, and squeeze it in the tip of your pliers to remove the sharp bend from it.



Then head to the dealership when it all goes to s$it and
get a new throttle. But wait, there is a 4 week backorder
on that part........
If I messed mine up, it would be walkin time to the stealership.
I wanted the reliability. Future posts down the road -
I did the throttle bend mod and it screwed up at the worst
time........ raining, date, had to be at work on time, etc.





What is there to screw up, other than longevity which has yet to be proven or disproven. Taco Tube did it and it was fine. Help me understand.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

ORIGINAL: sleeper2

Tube, this looks like a great way to eliminate dead space in the initial response, and electronically it makes sense. Does this also help with the lag in decrease of rpms (dashpot? I think it's called?) Having the rpms hang up high is driving me nuts as well, and it is not clear to me on the video or from comments if the rpm return lag is helped by this. Can you or someone comment on this? Thanks.

Sleeper2


I doubt that the 2 problems are related. the only way the hang in RPMs coulbe the result of this circuit would be if the pedal did not return immediatly when you stopped pressing on it. The hang is more likely built into the ECU.

I read somewhere that the hang was built in to our cars in order to assist in emmisions.





I believe so. Had a Ranger and an F150 that hung. No amount of wd40 solved it.

It grew fast, didn't it! I feel special. Lol.

I don't get what the deal is with the haters though... I'm just trying to help people, and some people just keep giving negative comments[>:]

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any possible way for this to cause any sort of damage or failure down the road, we are simply moving a brush, not doing anything drastic.

This doesn't help with the dashpot thing, that's purely an ECU issue keeping the throttle open while coasting for emissions kind of thing. Thats something you can tune out.

But the deadspace isn't something you can tune out, and is a clear mechanical problem.

Trust me there are plenty of ways for people to mess this up....I am sure someone will kill a couple of those wires

I already ordered a new one to do the mod on, but i do want to see others repsonses when they do this

A note that should put everyones mind at ease concerning this mod.

This is a very simple and mass produced circuit. I would bet anyone lunch that if you were to open several of these and measure the exact position of all the brushes, you would find that none of them are in the same exact position from one circuit to the next. They are quickly produced and bent, then the machine movesthe curcuit to the next phase. hundreds of these are likely made every second. As such there will be a variance in positioning. There is even a chance that some lucky stang out there does not have ANY dead zone on their pedal at all.

Which corresponds with people's comments on extreme lack of response to no lack of response.

ORIGINAL: acrokat

A note that should put everyones mind at ease concerning this mod.

There is even a chance that some lucky stang out there does not have ANY dead zone on their pedal at all.







Exactly. So if this is true, which I believe it is, there should be no worries about making the mod. Some already come from the factory with the "mod."

Right, it's all about tolerances.

It's like getting a "wednesday" engine that puts out 10 more hp than it's rated just because the tolerances all matched up and things worked better.

Theoretically you could get a pedal that has the brushes lined up exactly at the edge of the gold pad where they belong etc..

The reason Ford made the carbon pad extend so far over the edge of the gold pad is to allow for these tolerances, so the brush could be anywhere on that entire area and still produce the same result.

gonna give this a shot tomorrow, thanks tube

1 thing, where is the easiest place to buy torx drivers?

Any good hardware store should have them, it's a very standard size, T-15

I give up Tube.
You are the king of the throttle mod.
Everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
All hail the king of mods, TacoTube.
You rock so hard it hurts. Great mod
that no one thought of. And a free mod
at that. Take a bow.:D
We need more like you on this forum.

Sounds like someone is jealous. The mod sounds too good to be true, but when asked and hammered on, Taco Tube came up with completely reasonable sounding answers. And to top it off, has given proof of the success in a video. Long live the Tube.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Sounds like someone is jealous. The mod sounds too good to be true, but when asked and hammered on, Taco Tube came up with completely reasonable sounding answers. And to top it off, has given proof of the success in a video. Long live the Tube.


You listened wrong.
Sounds like TacoTube is the man and I gave him props.
Stop riding on me. Giddy up head.

ORIGINAL: GidyupGo

Sounds like someone is jealous. The mod sounds too good to be true, but when asked and hammered on, Taco Tube came up with completely reasonable sounding answers. And to top it off, has given proof of the success in a video. Long live the Tube.


And whats the MTBF from your long term testing, TubeMan?

nice to hear of a .3-.4 second et improver, variable valve timing responds very well to both electronic modifications like this and hard parts.

This is the same as removing slack in the throttle cable on older cars.

Taking a little longer 'cause the wipers are really small and I dont have pliars with a flat surface so I'm also trying with tweezers. Little itsy-bitsy stuff here.

Who the hell can really tell that the computer will register WOT right over there. what if its more to the left. = better WOT response more to the Right DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFRENCE!
http://i11.tinypic.com/5xij4gh.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't read past page 5, this is one of the biggest crocks of BS I've seen in a while. Change the angle of those brushes and guess what happens? They spread out on the return. Keeping an extra in your trunk won't do crap for you after you've wiped out in your car. To the original poster: Put this mod in your mag and I'll eat these words.

Lots of talk and skeptisism. I have the proof.

Getting ready to reinstall...

ORIGINAL: MartyMoose

Getting ready to reinstall...


Hurry the %ck up! and let us know. i wanna get home, i'll do it

ORIGINAL: kleistang

ORIGINAL: MartyMoose

Getting ready to reinstall...


Hurry the %ck up! and let us know. i wanna get home, i'll do it


I'd like to know too

ORIGINAL: tube

Here's a video of my throttle response AFTER the mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBdPJkG0pU

Turn your volume up, and watch how little I move the pedal, and listen to the engine rev. It's only revving about 100 rpm.



Interesting! My 07 works like that from the factory.

ORIGINAL: 8178A

ORIGINAL: tube

Here's a video of my throttle response AFTER the mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGBdPJkG0pU

Turn your volume up, and watch how little I move the pedal, and listen to the engine rev. It's only revving about 100 rpm.



Interesting! My 07 works like that from the factory.




ThenI would bet you lunch (including airfare?) that if you opened up your circuit and took a picture that your brushes are contacting the carbon strip in the correct positions.

I'm back. Anyone wanna know how it went?

Yes.

ORIGINAL: MartyMoose

I'm back. Anyone wanna know how it went?


you bastard, out with it already[8D]

Getting thirsty. Going for a glass of water. brb.

lol

Funny.

ORIGINAL: Mister Roper

Sorry, I couldn't read past page 5, this is one of the biggest crocks of BS I've seen in a while. Change the angle of those brushes and guess what happens? They spread out on the return. Keeping an extra in your trunk won't do crap for you after you've wiped out in your car. To the original poster: Put this mod in your mag and I'll eat these words.


If this had been the second reply to this post, we could have saved 9 pages of server space!

ORIGINAL: tube

Lots of talk and skeptisism. I have the proof.


Show us some time-slips.

Right, because throttle dead space affects horsepower and quarter mile time...:eek:

Watch my video.