Check this out. There is a universal EFI computer being sold that has no real limitations as you dial it in. This gives you complete control over fire as well as fuel. It is sold as a "learning tool", probably so no one can come back on them and claim the company destroyed an engine. Here it is...

http://www.megasquirt.info/

A person would have to learn how advance affected things. You'd have to know about types of FI. But it would allow you to collect just about any parts for cheap and have them work. Fun or futility?

I like Holleys!

Lots of people use them and love them. Makes EFI a little more affordable. You can tune with your own laptop, use any sensors you want and map your own fuel maps and timing curves from scratch. So in answer to the last question. FUN !

My lap is designed for a 125 pound blond female, not a computer.
Let me modify my statement on Holley's -
I like Webbers Too.
Jim

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

My lap is designed for a 125 pound blond female, not a computer.
Let me modify my statement on Holley's -
I like Webbers Too.
Jim

The money you saved in gas with EFI you could get two blondes.:D
mmmm, I need to fuel inject........

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

Well that was my third choice.
Jim

ORIGINAL: Soaring

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

REALLY ?! I think that's the first time I've heard that. I kinda see it as having your cake and eating it,too. That's cool.

Megasquirt works well, if you know what you're doing, and the idea with it is too learn. I plan on going with Edelbrock's Pro Flo setup though, takes a lot of the trouble out of it, and it comes with it's own tuning module so you can fine tune the fuel/spark curves

I see you only have 30 something posts, so you don't know the history. I like to keep my Mustangs as factory original as possible, but with small upgrades to keep them running smoothly and without mechanical problems. My 65 is a daily driver, and I keep it up-to-date just as I do my 03 Mach1. Along with the daily driver status comes maintenance issues as well as road trash getting thrown onto the undercarriage parts.That is the biggest issue I am facing since I do not own a lift.

Two 66 GT Fastbacks, both pure stock, one's a 'K' code, and a 65 GT Fastback, pure stock.
And don't say I'm not computer savvy, I was repairing computers in the 60's, designing them in the 70, putting them in satellites in the 80's.
Jim
(The Webbers went on my VW powered sand rail.)

Yes.

local://upfiles/71573/3CF4156A365C4D59A8DB1A2ADE121CD5.jpg

I bought the kit and built the unit. It is destine for my 62 Galaxie and then once I have the bugs out I will build one for my Mustang. Took me about 8 hours to put together the main unit, the relay board and the stimulator. NOTE I have been building circuit boards sense I was a kid and if you have no experience soldering a circuit board do not attempt to do this until you have practiced on something else or even better sever something elses. The connections are very close together. I have bench tested my unit and it seams to work very well and the software for it makes it very easy to adjust. I am going to use 5.0 upper and lower intakes, an 87 ford truck high pressure pump a trunk mount impact kill switch for the pump, and home made megasquirt wiring harness. I will post more if I ever get time to work on my Galaxie

http://home.bresnan.net/~karlsenart/Megasquirt.jpg

Well done, I can get you a job here in Silicon Valley at some hi-tech outfit, $70 or $80k a year. Of course, you would need to commute from Montana.
Jim

i rather use http://www.sdsefi.com/ im lazy dont like making a whole system

I have checked into the Megasquirt system, and everyone I've talked to has liked it. In time, "Evil" will have a little sister, and she will be fuel injected also. Since I plan a Turbo only (maybe twins),a Megasquirt would handle the engine management OK. Also I have heard scuttle there is work being done that will allow use of common existing (junkyard) ECM's that will be fully programable via the laptop. That would be a great help to keep things in budget. As far as the aftermarket ECM's, as this market gets more crowded, the price will drop. And "scouttrooper", I appreciate the info, I have one EFI and 8 carbed. Needless to say, the EFI has spoiled me. So, to answer your question, YES.

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

Well done, I can get you a job here in Silicon Valley at some hi-tech outfit, $70 or $80k a year. Of course, you would need to commute from Montana.
Jim


Not to mention the cost of living is 3 to 4 times more expensive then Montana. So it will seem more like $20k a year ;)

You need to make at least $150,000 to qualify for a home loan in Silicon Valley. That don't leave much left over for 'toys'.
Jim

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

You need to make at least $150,000 to qualify for a home loan in Silicon Valley. That don't leave much left over for 'toys'.
Jim


I read an article about the wealthy by all other accounts people commuting daily from Stockton, Manteca, et al to SV for work. I also read another article that really puts SV wealth into perspective:

In Silicon Valley, Millionaires Who Don’t Feel Rich

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/technology/05rich.html?ex=1187668800&en=46fce7fd3fc5a654&ei=5 070

ORIGINAL: Soaring

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

I respect your opinion and I like Carbs too. I have a Holley on my 67 but I'm not sure how putting EFI on a classic car is the same as putting a Toyota engine in a Mustang. From the purist point of view I entirely respect the carb, but Ford makes EFI for 5.0's that is so easy to adapt and would be ALL Ford parts. Even an aftermarket system is no different than changing gears, wheels, exhaust, cams, etc., etc.
Anyway to each his own.
Craig

ORIGINAL: tarafied1

ORIGINAL: Soaring

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

I respect your opinion and I like Carbs too. I have a Holley on my 67 but I'm not sure how putting EFI on a classic car is the same as putting a Toyota engine in a Mustang. From the purist point of view I entirely respect the carb, but Ford makes EFI for 5.0's that is so easy to adapt and would be ALL Ford parts. Even an aftermarket system is no different than changing gears, wheels, exhaust, cams, etc., etc.
Anyway to each his own.
Craig

There were no EFI engines, or 5.0 engines in the 1965-73 classic cars. Why do you guys constantly want to put them into a car that was not designed for those engines? Buy a Fox body and do anything with it that you want. An EFI in a classic is no more different than a Toyota or any other engine in a classic because the engine was not designed for a classic car. The next thing out of your mouth will be to put a 350 bow tie in a classic Mustang because it is an American made engine. I draw the line in the sand. If the engine was not designed for the classic car, then it does not belong in there. Find yourself another hobby.

Ahhh..it's good to be back off vacation and back to the stream of consternation.

Glen,
Please stop telling board members to go find another hobby because they disagree with you.

thanks

ORIGINAL: scouttrooper

Check this out. There is a universal EFI computer being sold that has no real limitations as you dial it in. This gives you complete control over fire as well as fuel. It is sold as a "learning tool", probably so no one can come back on them and claim the company destroyed an engine. Here it is...

http://www.megasquirt.info/

A person would have to learn how advance affected things. You'd have to know about types of FI. But it would allow you to collect just about any parts for cheap and have them work. Fun or futility?


Megasquirt and Pro-Flow are both excellant adaptations to using EFI on an existing motor. I personally liked using the OEM setup because I felt it was, quite frankly....as simple, and less expensive.

ORIGINAL: JamesW

Ahhh..it's good to be back off vacation and back to the stream of consternation.

Glen,
Please stop telling board members to go find another hobby because they disagree with you.

thanks

Another hobby would be to get a Fox body Mustang and build all the 5.0 EFI engine you wish to pursue, but leave our classic carburated engines alone in our classic bodied Mustangs, designed in the mid 60's for mid 60's performance and comfort. It is inherent that we will reach a disagreement on this forum because we have a 40 something year old car that screams to be road worthy. Some of us are wishing to keep our 40 year old cars as they came from the factory with adjustments to parts in order to keep them on the road as a daily driver, whereas there are others who heavily modify their perfectly good classic Mustang into a car that it was never meant to be, and then there are those who just want to keep them running to drive to school.

This site (http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=65) has a information on most, if not all, the aftermarket EFI computers that are available.

I agree with you that some want to keep it original, I'm okay with that. As far as Ford not intending them to have EFI, it is not a reason we can't update them today. Cars that are rare or close to original would be a shame to modifya lot but putting EFI doesn't change them anymore than adding other things like chrome valve covers or dual exhaust. It can easily be put back. I am just not big on the looks of a FOX or I would modify one of those. I like the style of the classic and even if I modify the look a little it still doen't look like a FOX body. Again, I respect anyone who wants to keep it original but modifing a classic is not wrong because some people don't like it.
I know we won't agree but don't send us away please.
Craig

..........................

(IMO) EFI is an excellent fuel system *upgrade* for a classic Mustang engine (or any other classic that is not a concours correct car). It can be done with no permanent modifications. EFI also improves driveability,torque over the rpm range, and fuel mileage.
In reading and seeingwhat people are doing to install these systems, the biggest downfall I see issome of the fuel systems being built. Some are just poorly designed. Others are downright scary.
While theelectronics are cheap, the real cost is in a properly designed fuel system.This can add upwards of $1,000.00 (or more for the real trick stuff) to the price of the swap. You may want to keep that in mind before making a commitment if you want to do it right.

Guess what Craig. We don't have modern engines in our classic cars. Ast least not the guys who are serious about keep their cars original.

Geez guys...we've been down this trail a bazillion times. Modifying Mustangs started April 18th 1964 and people have been doing it ever since. Back then we 'jacked them up', 'souped them up', and "tricked them out".

Somewhere down the line, the hobby took the cars back to original. They became "Classics". Somewhere else down the line, the hobby has continued the modifications.

Some people like their cars homemade vanilla, some like them Peaches & Cream. The point is... we all like them. It's like arguing over which BlueBell flavor is best. They're all good.

ORIGINAL: Soaring

ORIGINAL: tarafied1

ORIGINAL: Soaring

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

I respect your opinion and I like Carbs too. I have a Holley on my 67 but I'm not sure how putting EFI on a classic car is the same as putting a Toyota engine in a Mustang. From the purist point of view I entirely respect the carb, but Ford makes EFI for 5.0's that is so easy to adapt and would be ALL Ford parts. Even an aftermarket system is no different than changing gears, wheels, exhaust, cams, etc., etc.
Anyway to each his own.
Craig

There were no EFI engines, or 5.0 engines in the 1965-73 classic cars. Why do you guys constantly want to put them into a car that was not designed for those engines? Buy a Fox body and do anything with it that you want. An EFI in a classic is no more different than a Toyota or any other engine in a classic because the engine was not designed for a classic car. The next thing out of your mouth will be to put a 350 bow tie in a classic Mustang because it is an American made engine. I draw the line in the sand. If the engine was not designed for the classic car, then it does not belong in there. Find yourself another hobby.
You know Glen there is room in this hobby for everyone, if you don't care for a new modern engine in a great looking classic ride that's your right, but how do you get off telling people what they should or should not do with THEIR car. Not everyone wants a classic Stang that can't beat a Honda Civic and handles like a Model T. Original is great for some of the more rare cars but who cares if some guy wants to moderize his 6 cylinder 66 coupe.

ORIGINAL: JD1969

ORIGINAL: Soaring

ORIGINAL: tarafied1

ORIGINAL: Soaring

Everybody who has been a member on here for any time at all knows that I think a classic mustang with an EFI engine is just wrong. You may as well put a Toyota engine in it as far as I am concerned. It's the same thing. You are putting an engine into a classic that was not designed for a classic Mustang. I like Motorcraft carbs.

I respect your opinion and I like Carbs too. I have a Holley on my 67 but I'm not sure how putting EFI on a classic car is the same as putting a Toyota engine in a Mustang. From the purist point of view I entirely respect the carb, but Ford makes EFI for 5.0's that is so easy to adapt and would be ALL Ford parts. Even an aftermarket system is no different than changing gears, wheels, exhaust, cams, etc., etc.
Anyway to each his own.
Craig

There were no EFI engines, or 5.0 engines in the 1965-73 classic cars. Why do you guys constantly want to put them into a car that was not designed for those engines? Buy a Fox body and do anything with it that you want. An EFI in a classic is no more different than a Toyota or any other engine in a classic because the engine was not designed for a classic car. The next thing out of your mouth will be to put a 350 bow tie in a classic Mustang because it is an American made engine. I draw the line in the sand. If the engine was not designed for the classic car, then it does not belong in there. Find yourself another hobby.
You know Glen there is room in this hobby for everyone, if you don't care for a new modern engine in a great looking classic ride that's your right, but how do you get off telling people what they should or should not do with THEIR car. Not everyone wants a classic Stang that can't beat a Honda Civic and handles like a Model T. Original is great for some of the more rare cars but who cares if some guy wants to moderize his 6 cylinder 66 coupe.

Room - sure; criticism - you bet; controversy - goes with the territory. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Jim

Trust me, I can more than stand the heat. I wasn't always into the modern cars. You want controversy try modding a 60's era Mopar and see what the "purists think". The numbers matching Mopar bunch are the worst about this kinda thing. Don't even dare utter the word "clone" around them.

Not sure your position Jim, are you saying the kitchen (this section) isfor original unmodified mustangs?

Glen you fizz up over this like mentos in a pepsi bottle:D
actually Toyota make some good quad cam v8s with plenty of potential[8D]
Ol Yeller would smack the pants of his little brother then.[sm=gears.gif]

ORIGINAL: JamesW

Not sure your position Jim, are you saying the kitchen (this section) isfor original unmodified mustangs?

I think there was a poll on this subject for this portion of the 'mustang forums' called 'classic mustangs' and the results were to keep it combined. There is no reference to modified, restomod or pure stock in the title or anywhere, it's - 'classic'.So I can't help laughing when Glen or myself, get critical of the modified. I've donestrip,track, off-road and now restorations, and it's still a learning process for me. I note that someone with a 750 cfm carb decision, problem or recomendation, or my 'wheels don't fit', the modified guys jump all over it with wild, unusual andstrange things to say. But when somebody has a 'generic' problem with a gauge or wiring, the mod guys avoid that poster as if they had leprosy.
Jim

I'm not good with gauges and wiring [8D]. People answer the questions they know the answers to. Well, not always, but you get what I mean.

So the "kitchen"...is the classics, whether it be unrestored, restored, strip, track, off road, modified, or whatever the case may be...it's all about helping each other achieve what ever it is they are trying to achieve...right?

I've noticed how you usually answer posts... youchime inwhen you have a helpful fact or opinion and otherwise don't belittle others for their preferences. All I wish is that others would do the same.

If I know the answer on wire gage or original part condition I will chime in... but sadly my car was so originally butchered that I woudn't know right from wrong.

BTW... I have had that calendar shot of your white GT in my garage for years.

Thanks. I'll tell the photographer. In that session, he kept asking me about the car and what did I do to it, mods and such. I told him none, well very few. When that particularshot was made, I was concerned about the lights wearing down the old battery and neither of us had jumpers. I held the reflector to get more light to the front of the car.
If you want to see some nice photos of a great variety of cars, go to http://www.ronkimballstock.com/
Jim

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you are so passionate about something that seems so individual and, well... unimportantto me. As my engine sits, the only thing Ford designed is the block. Everything Ford designed and built had completely crapped out. I wasn't up for a big block... although it would have been a blast, too much engine bay reinvention for me. I wanted the sassiest little 289/302 I could get without pissing my wife off with the bills. I pushed it, but she still loves me. Name a part and I've gone better than what was designed as stock. Discs front and back, Granada, Jeep. Frame stiffening, brakes, wheels, fuel tank, Gauge cluster, suspension, steering... on and on with the upgrades. If I could pick up my body and slide an '07 Corvette soul under it, it would be done. I'm not capable. I thought original sucked. I don't morn for any of those original parts. There's really nothing wrong with the way my Carter carb is functioning. If you have this Megasquirt, the world is your dyno. You can adjust certainthings and see results in real time. It seems to me, a luxury.

I'm befuddled not bythe opinion of someone who likes the nostalgia of originality, but by the passion with which they hate the restomod movement. I was already aware of Glen's opinion; not particurly threatened by it. Many here tend to want to confront him. I'd just like to know WHY he and others have such energy behind that opinion. I think of all the homes in the US that were built before central air. Air conditioning is soooooooo cooooool! (pardon the pun). The upgrade to central air and an EFI upgrade are parallel in my mind, but not in everyone's mind. If any of you "originalators" would take the time to help me understand what specifically sparks such emotion regarding originality, there'd probably be a lot less confrontation here. Anyone care to give us the "why" behind these passionate opinions? A favorite memory? Treatened by change? Cause we should all like the same things the same way? What? I'd really like to know.:)

ORIGINAL: scouttrooper

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you are so passionate about something that seems so individual and, well... unimportantto me. As my engine sits, the only thing Ford designed is the block. Everything Ford designed and built had completely crapped out. I wasn't up for a big block... although it would have been a blast, too much engine bay reinvention for me. I wanted the sassiest little 289/302 I could get without pissing my wife off with the bills. I pushed it, but she still loves me. Name a part and I've gone better than what was designed as stock. Discs front and back, Granada, Jeep. Frame stiffening, brakes, wheels, fuel tank, Gauge cluster, suspension, steering... on and on with the upgrades. If I could pick up my body and slide an '07 Corvette soul under it, it would be done. I'm not capable. I thought original sucked. I don't morn for any of those original parts. There's really nothing wrong with the way my Carter carb is functioning. If you have this Megasquirt, the world is your dyno. You can adjust certainthings and see results in real time. It seems to me, a luxury.

I'm befuddled not bythe opinion of someone who likes the nostalgia of originality, but by the passion with which they hate the restomod movement. I was already aware of Glen's opinion; not particurly threatened by it. Many here tend to want to confront him. I'd just like to know WHY he and others have such energy behind that opinion. I think of all the homes in the US that were built before central air. Air conditioning is soooooooo cooooool! (pardon the pun). The upgrade to central air and an EFI upgrade are parallel in my mind, but not in everyone's mind. If any of you "originalators" would take the time to help me understand what specifically sparks such emotion regarding originality, there'd probably be a lot less confrontation here. Anyone care to give us the "why" behind these passionate opinions? A favorite memory? Treatened by change? Cause we should all like the same things the same way? What? I'd really like to know.:)

Some of us think of restomods as painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel with a roller or getting a pair of mannequin's arms from the store front at Macy's and sticking them on the Venus de Milo. On the other hand, I repainted my house last year and replaced my old gas cooktop with one that don't require a pilot light. Same thing?
There's a time and a place for everything; I've learned to draw the line.
Jim

ORIGINAL: Soaring

ORIGINAL: JamesW

Ahhh..it's good to be back off vacation and back to the stream of consternation.

Glen,
Please stop telling board members to go find another hobby because they disagree with you.

thanks

Another hobby would be to get a Fox body Mustang and build all the 5.0 EFI engine you wish to pursue, but leave our classic carburated engines alone in our classic bodied Mustangs, designed in the mid 60's for mid 60's performance and comfort. It is inherent that we will reach a disagreement on this forum because we have a 40 something year old car that screams to be road worthy. Some of us are wishing to keep our 40 year old cars as they came from the factory with adjustments to parts in order to keep them on the road as a daily driver, whereas there are others who heavily modify their perfectly good classic Mustang into a car that it was never meant to be, and then there are those who just want to keep them running to drive to school.


Does that mean that since I bought my car minus engine that it's ok for me to go EFI? :D

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB
Some of us think of restomods as painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel with a roller or getting a pair of mannequin's arms from the store front at Macy's and sticking them on the Venus de Milo. On the other hand, I repainted my house last year and replaced my old gas cooktop with one that don't require a pilot light. Same thing?
There's a time and a place for everything; I've learned to draw the line.
Jim

I couldn't agree more. There are individual cars, rare in status, thatshould never be modded. There there are others (in my case a run of the mill 6cyl) that would only have a second chance at life as a personal project.

But the issue in this thread was never about individual choice. It was about respecting other's choices. When was the last time we saw anyone on here lamblast Glen for having [sm=insomnia.gif]an original car?

I was going to completely ignore this thread because I thought I might know where it was going......well I didn't ignore it,,, damn,,,,

43 posts,,, and like 4 of them actually about fuel injection,,,,,,,, it takes two to "tango"...... everyone should try to unbunch those panties...

I have both, a 289 stock (mechanically...Holley and everything)1965 FB and a highly modified (EFI blower)1966 FB. Finding a new hobby is not the answer to an age old debate. I willthrow theflag and say everyone has the right to do what they chosewith their own property. Just a newb I know, but I was hoping this forum would be an open forum to exchange ideas and share information about cars. In our mutal case, classic Mustangs of all kinds. I am grateful to all for sharing some great information.

ORIGINAL: JMD
everyone should try to unbunch those panties...

+1 and great way of putting it too[sm=icon_rofl.gif]
a word of warning tho...this post could become a debate about which knickers to untwist. Would they be granma's bloomers or a itty bitty piece of string from the off topic section:D

I don't read that anybody's panties are in a knot. I think it's great that we can discuss these topics on here without calling each other names or using inflamatory language. I am proud of all of you for being able to state your compassion in a manner that we can all understand, but maybe not agree with.

Go for the EFI. Much more user friendly. Hard to find a carburated 600hp that is truely streetable and get 20mpg. How can you knock that kind of potential if thats you gig?

My 66 coupe is a C-code with a salvaged title. C-code= boring and a 2003 Cobra engine is more fun and the more I think about it the more I want to do it, maybe just to spite the concours snobs.

I'd rather see a classic car on the road regardless of engine.

Oh and the 5.0 is a 302 which was available starting in 1968.

Another target in the Classic section? As I recall the vote not to split or add a "restomod" section is starting to haunt us again. Other forums have this andthey seem to havefew problems. Providinginformation and answering questions with the intentof helping someone is one thing, to try to sway theiridea or intentby a derogatory comment is another, and should be avoided. So again, is it getting to the point of anyone seeking informationabout upgrading or restomodding THEIR car going to get smacked around again. Well, maybe its time to remove fodder from the cannon fire and start a "Restomod" section where people can freely seek information without the worry of being demoralized by asking a simple question pertaining toTHEIR car or project.

ORIGINAL: 67 evil eleanor

Another target in the Classic section? As I recall the vote not to split or add a "restomod" section is starting to haunt us again. Other forums have this andthey seem to havefew problems. Providinginformation and answering questions with the intentof helping someone is one thing, to try to sway theiridea or intentby a derogatory comment is another, and should be avoided. So again, is it getting to the point of anyone seeking informationabout upgrading or restomodding THEIR car going to get smacked around again. Well, maybe its time to remove fodder from the cannon fire and start a "Restomod" section where people can freely seek information without the worry of being demoralized by asking a simple question pertaining toTHEIR car or project.

Evil, if you look at the name of this section, it's called the Classic section. Now, if you want a restomod section contact Chris and he will most likely help you. However, in the meantime, this will remain the classic section of MF.

ORIGINAL: scouttrooper

Check this out. There is a universal EFI computer being sold that has no real limitations as you dial it in. This gives you complete control over fire as well as fuel. It is sold as a "learning tool", probably so no one can come back on them and claim the company destroyed an engine. Here it is...

http://www.megasquirt.info/

A person would have to learn how advance affected things. You'd have to know about types of FI. But it would allow you to collect just about any parts for cheap and have them work. Fun or futility?


Near as I can tell, the biggest advantage offered vs other aftermarket systems might be the pricing. At a quick glance, the sequential fire option is the biggest feature that it offers vs the Accel/DFI system that I've beenrunning in the thumbnail car for several years. And that's the DOS Calmap version, BTW. For max power at mid to high revs, I'm not at all sure that SEFI gains you anything (though it does get a good bit more complex to get the fuel timing right). The Accel/DFI has better fuel map resolution (16 x 16 vs 12 x 12) but poorer ignition (don't remember offhand).

Of course, that's only part of it. If you really want to take advantage of EFI you'll be scrapping anythought of working from a wet-flow intake manifold. Otherwise, your torque curve will end up looking like - surprise! - a carb'ed engine of similar specs.

It's a learning tool, all right. You should learn a bit about internal combustiontheory before messing with it. And over the full range of engine operation, not just WOT. In that respect it's like buying a carb that has no jets, power valve, accelerator pump, or emulsifiers in it, and you have to figure out what your engine wants. If there's a means within the software to give you a fuel map that will at least allow the engine to run, that gets you to "complete carb with all the little bits and pieces" status". It'll run, just like an out-of-the-box carb will run. And about here is where the EFI starts looking better - it's much easierand less messy to tune, and you'll be more willing to tinker as each tuning iteration is not much different than editing a spreadsheet table and saving the new data. You don't have to buy any new parts, or worry about getting to the store before it closes, or if they even have the specific piece.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that EFI (assuming decent tuning) will give you an engine that's much smoother-running while it is warming up and is far more tolerant of lugging down at low revs in the "wrong" gear. Add a knock sensor and you won't have to time your ignition quite as conservatively or worry as much about gasoline octane. Do not underestimate the value of these in anything resembling a daily driver.


A little bit off on the tangent, but I think the hotrodding world would have been poorer for it had nobody dared to put flathead V8's in '27s or OHV's in '32s . . . though an in-law of mine whose chief automotive interest lies along antique cars rather than hot rods might beg to disagree.


Norm

local://upfiles/62186/8AC79B02EE4D4C7983653EA72397C342.jpg

I myself am all about putting an EFI motor in a classic. Its what you like. If i had the money, a 5.0 with a blower would be in my car. It would still be a 1965 mustang. Theres nothing special about my car, so doing this would not hurt the value at all. People need to lighten up. When it is all said and done,its still a mustang. Unless you put a Bow tie under it, then thats just stupid.. I do love my 289, but if had the chance...

+1 Norm.

I have EFI, overdrive, rack an pinionand a modern coil over suspension. I should be able to drive circles around a stock "classic" mustang while it is at the gas station getting filled up. With gas at$3+ pergallon I don't mind the investment to make my car more fuel efficient. A side benefit is I am doing my part to keep the environment clean since EFI cars generally run cleaner. :D

ORIGINAL: dr1965

Unless you put a Bow tie under it, then thats just stupid..


You nailed it right there! Glen, Jim and others see EFI as a similar modification in that it has no place in the classic Mustang. Once I realized how strongly they felt about it I was no longer bothered by their comments. I'm not being an apologist, rather accepting that they feel strongly about it and wish to express their opinion. :D

[edit] On topic, if I were to go EFI it would be the Ford EFI.

ORIGINAL: gothand

ORIGINAL: dr1965

Unless you put a Bow tie under it, then thats just stupid..


You nailed it right there! Glen, Jim and others see EFI as a similar modification in that it has no place in the classic Mustang. Once I realized how strongly they felt about it I was no longer bothered by their comments. I'm not being an apologist, rather accepting that they feel strongly about it and wish to express their opinion. :D

And that is the whole thing in a nutshell,,, No one here is going to "convert" Jim or Glen to to pro-EFI in a classic,, they hold their opinions about this issue.

Acceptance of this point of view, and not getting hurt aboutdiffering opinionsmight make all of us look a little bigger... ;) :D

We all need to stop Proselytizing... :)

The truth is, if the EFI systems available today were around in 1965, they would have been in the Ford catalog as a factory option if not on the showroom floor on a K code 289 FB, just like they were on some of the early Corvettes(mechanical fuel injection, then eventuallyEFI). A modern EFI system in a waywas never intended to be in a Classic Mustang, but only as a matter of fact they they didn't exist. Radial tires weren't intended to be on classic cars, nor was synthetic oil, or modern brake fluids, or asbestos free brake pads/shoes, or aluminum heads,but all because they didn't exist at the time, at least not at a reasonably costly level. I have no problem with someone putting modern technology into an older car, older cars had what they had because that was what was available at the time. I also have no problem with someone wanting to make the car all original down to the stickers. I'm not too fond of putting a bowtie in a Mustang, but an LS7 in a 67 Coupe(if you could get it to fit) would make for one fast car

ORIGINAL: Soaring

ORIGINAL: 67 evil eleanor

Another target in the Classic section? As I recall the vote not to split or add a "restomod" section is starting to haunt us again. Other forums have this andthey seem to havefew problems. Providinginformation and answering questions with the intentof helping someone is one thing, to try to sway theiridea or intentby a derogatory comment is another, and should be avoided. So again, is it getting to the point of anyone seeking informationabout upgrading or restomodding THEIR car going to get smacked around again. Well, maybe its time to remove fodder from the cannon fire and start a "Restomod" section where people can freely seek information without the worry of being demoralized by asking a simple question pertaining toTHEIR car or project.

Evil, if you look at the name of this section, it's called the Classic section. Now, if you want a restomod section contact Chris and he will most likely help you. However, in the meantime, this will remain the classic section of MF.


I agree with Glen. There is no need for a restomod section. The term 'Classic' means anything and everything associated with early model Mustangs. This section is as restomod...perhaps moreso, than any other on the internet.

Keep asking the questions... it's your car and someone will be here to help..whatever the direction. If you need some help with EFI... Let me see if I can help.;)

Another thread gone astray. I have no problem with keeping the section together provided the negative comments pertaining more to ones personal opinion ofwhat should be done to a car, rather that what someone wants to do to their car,are witheldregardless of what an individuals ideas are.

I don't see it that way at all, at least not yet. Jim and Glen have responded to scouttrooper's request for insight behind strongly held opinions and nothing more. Post #40, and yes, it was a little off-topic.

By the strictest definition, "original" can have only one answer, so it can't possibly have interpretations as loose as may exist within"restomod". If that makes proponents of maintaining originality seem a bit rigid in their beliefs, it's simply the nature of the beast, and it's unrealistic to expect much in the way of change.

Then too, not everybody is as diplomatic in expressing their disagreement as may suit some. But as long as it goes no further than mildly un-PC posting there's no harm and no foul. Just different personalities.

Can we put the genie back in the bottle now?


Norm

No one has ever come up to me and asked, "Is that a new car made to look like an old Mustang?" I get, "Is that a 64 or a 65". Or once in a while I get, "Is that a 67?" How do I respond? "It's a 65." And then I assure them they would have guessed the correct year if I hadn't messed around with the grill or badging. They often look deflated when they've guessed wrong. Then they say, "Right on... cool car," and that's the end of it. Mine's only 40% Mustang parts, but what does everyone see? It's clearly a Mustang. What's underneath that identifiable shell is secondary.

With the exception of the truly historic and limited mustang variants, or cars that have managed to stay concourse perfect to this day, I think the mods you choose are no more significant than the color you choose to paint it. No one is on here barking about original colors. (Why not, by the way??) If the Mopars and Pontiacs had been as easy and cheap to modernize, they wouldn't have been crushed, wouldn't be as rare today, and they wouldn't be high dollar cars. The fact that Mustangs are "modernizable" is one of just a few things that has kept them as prevelant as they are (IMO). Had they not been updatable, they too would be museum pieces or trailor queens... or, they too may have been crushed.

Ummmm,,,, I think thebattle might be over now, with each party willing to accept the others point of view, without actually agreeing with it,, pleaseno more gunfire......

;) :D

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

The truth is, if the EFI systems available today were around in 1965, they would have been in the Ford catalog as a factory option if not on the showroom floor on a K code 289 FB, just like they were on some of the early Corvettes(mechanical fuel injection, then eventuallyEFI). A modern EFI system in a waywas never intended to be in a Classic Mustang, but only as a matter of fact they they didn't exist....
Ford and Shelby did play with the idea of Fuel injection and IRS. The famous "Green Hornet" is proof. I have to agree if Ford could have made it a cost effective option, it would have been available.


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ORIGINAL: tarafied1

ORIGINAL: 67mustang302

The truth is, if the EFI systems available today were around in 1965, they would have been in the Ford catalog as a factory option if not on the showroom floor on a K code 289 FB, just like they were on some of the early Corvettes(mechanical fuel injection, then eventuallyEFI). A modern EFI system in a waywas never intended to be in a Classic Mustang, but only as a matter of fact they they didn't exist....
Ford and Shelby did play with the idea of Fuel injection and IRS. The famous "Green Hornet" is proof. I have to agree if Ford could have made it a cost effective option, it would have been available.


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Yes Ford did, but back then IRS was just not cost effective because they wanted to produce a sports car that would not cost more than a dollar per pound. European sports cars were coming out with IRS but they were twice as expensive as Mustangs. And Ford needed a car that could rival the Pontiac GTO and the Dodge Charger and the Chevy Chevelle. The pony car was not really the answer to the muscle cars that other companies were putting out but by 1968 the KR was that answer.

I agree!

Not only would I, I did. With Good ole ECCIV. I have heard some very positive things about Mega squirt though. I wouldent be afraid to try it, especially on a modified engine.