Alright I know everyone here is partial to Fords so I decided this would be this best place for help.

First off let me tell you what I'm doing. I need to give a persuasive speech for on of my college class and I thought what better idea then to do cars and the whole lot, hence "Ford vs GM vs Others".

The thing is I don't wnat this to be just another Ford is better and that's it kinda thing. I need some info! So I was wondering what your guys thoughts were on this, and any info appericiated!

2 problems here.
1. You posted this in the wrong section. Maybe if you said a v6 comaro v/s a v6 mustang, but you didn't.
2. You posted this in the v6 section, of all sections, witch is mostly teenagers wondering what brand of cia they should get to make thier mustnag faster.

Alright then where should I have posted? the reason why i posted here is cause i have a v6 stang and I thought i'd keep it in here where I actually look.

GM - Pros - transmissions are top quality and loose less power from the flywheel to the rear wheels than others, great engine power in class and well built to handel lots of power,highermpg standards in the V8 and V6 class
Cons - higher initial price, frames are prone to rust, paint corrodes quicker than others as it's cheaper quality, eletrical problems, high price for OEM replacement parts, paint colors vary with year while codes stay the same, some engine lines are extremely hard to work on

Ford - Pros - long lasting engines, long lasting autos, above average electrical systems, solid frames, higher crash test ratings in all classes, cheaper initial cost, OEM replacement parts are fairly affordable, great paint quality with little to nopaint color to code letter problems, mostly easy access to engine compartment and parts
Cons - some sensors are prone to faillure, automattic transmissions loose a lot of power to the wheels, older manual transmissions are not built to take much more power than stock

That's about all I can think of.

that sounds just about right to me! anybody else have anything?

Well i have an auto. and it's a good car. but loss of power. Yea but not that much.. I have a little auto lag . but as far as performance its good.

ORIGINAL: Mustang_guy17

Well i have an auto. and it's a good car. but loss of power. Yea but not that much.. I have a little auto lag . but as far as performance its good.


You generally have a 20% drivetrain loss through an auto. So you have 190 flywheel HP, take 20% of that, subtract it from 190, and you have an estimated rwhp.

It would be about 150 ish to the rear wheels with a stock auto.

EDIT: Thats provided its a split port. Phew. Caught myself in time.

I think there's plenty of threads that discuss auto loss guys:D Thanks for the help though.. anybody else have their opinions?

Well here's mine. w/out gettin into car verse cars I think that Ford has the all around edge towards GM.

Both GM and Ford have partnerships; GM is w/ Saab, Fiat, Fuji/Subaru, Isuzu, Suzuki.
And Ford bein w/ Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mazda, Volvo, Land Rover.

According to other sources though, makers of Toyota and such have the advantage over both Ford an GM.
Here's a litte thing found from a website:
At a private dinner on Wednesday, Ford CEO Alan Mulally told journalists that the recent visit he and Mark Fields made to Toyota's headquarters was born out of a desire to understand more about the Japanese automaker's manufacturing and product development processes, which Mulally holds in very high esteem. He went so far as to refer to Toyota as "the finest machine in the world, the finest production system in the world," adding that "we (Mulally and Fields) went to study with the master."

Anybody??[sm=feedback.gif]

GM built better cars that Ford anyway

ORIGINAL: sabin_chicago

GM built better cars that Ford anyway


Your sure?

"Ford Motor Company is currently one of the oldest surviving automakers, and it has lived a thriving life until now. With gas prices rising, Ford's high profit pickups and SUVs aren't selling as well as they used to and their passenger car lineup is in dire need of updating to compete with the imports (except maybe the new Fusion). But Ford does have one thing on their side, product diversity. Both GM and Ford own or have a controlling stake in an exorbitant number of companies. But Ford has been able to acquire automakers who offer cars dissimilar to those they already sell. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury are the bargain classic American cars whereas Volvo has its Swedish charm, Aston Martin, Jaguar and Land Rover have their British quirks, and Mazda (Ford holds 25% stake) has its Zoom-Zoom attitude. Each company offers a unique character by which their lineup attunes to. Some are fast supercars (Aston), some are great GT's (Jag) some are renowned for their off-roading capability (LR), and some have staked their claim on safety (Volvo). So, even though Fo. Mo. Co. is not looking great right now, it seems to me they have the better product line to compete.

Now, GM...What is going to happen? GM was once the hallmark for graceful design and exceptional power. Now they are well represented primarily in rental car lots. GM also owns many different car brands yet their diversity cannot compare to Ford's. Sure they attempt to put attitudes to each brand (Pontiac=sporty, Chevy=entry level, Buick=luxury) but in reality, each is just a copy of the next but with different skin. GM, over the last few years, has poured its money into badge engineering (using the same platform, interior, etc. but with slightly different sheetmetal) and it is too evident. It seems GM only cares about Cadillac these days. Caddy seems to be the only GM brand that has potential. GM has put the money in to create expressive designs and powerful engines. If only they could do that for the rest of the company, they could be successful. It seems GM is finally catching on. There are plans to change Pontiac's entire line to RWD platforms developed in Australia (Holden) and Chevy's new trucks show a huge improvement in interior quality, panel gaps, and overall design. Hopefully this is the beginning of the American automakers Renaissance." -GM vs Ford (http://wheelstvblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/gm-vs-ford.html)

GM made a catfish :eek:(j/k I actually love camaros)
Ford made a masterpiece [8D]

ORIGINAL: jthorn9


Ford - Pros - long lasting engines, cheaper initial cost, OEM replacement parts are fairly affordable,



The engines last long if you baby em or take care of em to a dime.. Weve got a1994 4cyl Ranger work truck that we dont really beat the hell out of we just takegarbage to the dump etc. and its on its last leg.... but its manual tranny is strong.. We had a Ford Aerovan or w/e back in the day beforeit finally just fell to **** onusand it was ALWAYS in the shop and it was our daily driver pick the kids up from school vehicle. We also currently have a 1993 4.0L V6Explorer and its tranny is shot to hell, im thinking it skips 1st gear from a stop and rockets you right to 15 mph after a short stutter before accelerating among other things.. mainly electrical (like broken gas gauge, its stuck on full.. the intelligent man at autozone who was giving me fuses for the dash light said "At least you will always have a full tank".. which kinda pissed me off kuz its kinda bad to not know how much gas you have. Also blinkers/blinker switches are prone to problems the explorers dont blink they just get brighter and stay solid yellow and im my mustang the switch had to be replaced... My Mustang ran great engine wise, but i give ford kudos for using such a strong block in it.. but its components (thermostat, radiator, o2 sensors) were always goin haywire.. everytime my check engine light came on and id have it scanned it was a different problem... Wewent from theFordAerostar or van or w/e the hell its called. to a 1995 ChevySuburban that we bought from a farm out eastand it was beaten but had fair miles and ran just like a song. So we bought a 2003 Suburban which we havent had problems with yet. It onlysaw one other owner for about 2years.

in myopinion addressing thecheap "affordable" prices on parts and cars... Thats becauseFord doesnt build cars for much quality as much as they do to please the customer... They spend more time on stylizing rather than quality. The parts inturn are cheap because they know they will need to be replacedso they just make a ****load of em... something i like to call supply and demand.Now the reason Chevys are so damn expensive is because they were built rock solid. However in the instance of Camaros, in 98 when they developed the 1st 3.8L V6 it had 200hp, while 98 V6 Mustangs had 150? Inturn the 19984.6L GT was underpowered compared to a same year 98 LS1 Camaro... Even a 1995 LT1 V8was pushing 275hp.Proving, whileFord can put cars together fast andkeep prices down by not putting alot into the engines, Chevyusually followsFord in the production of theirvehicles but Chevy usually beatsFord in power... butthose bigger engines that are well put together and have more power cost more... Leading to the reason why the Camaro died, they had tons of power but they were asking a ton for the car.. Someone could have just bought a Corvette of a slightly earlier year and have almost the same car... and chevy couldnt sell a brick version of the Corvette so the Camaro ran out of production along with the Trans Am.. Now, with the high demand for performance and Ford developing crazy fast GT-500s etc. that have tons of power... Gm is ready to reintroduce the Camaro which is rumored to have a LS3 engine that will put out more power than the GT-500 WITHOUT forced induction. That had got to say something about the difference between Ford and Chevy... Now you can take that as you will, but ive hard arguments from bothsides ive done my research and i would rather buy a 1995 Camaro Z28 with 275hp than a Mustang GTthats almost 10 years older and costs aboutat least 5k more(1999 w/ 260hp) and have nearly 10 horses less stock. In turn the 2009 Concept, which is currently powered only by a LS2 is dropping 400 horses while the 2007 Shelby GT had 300hp PLUS factory modifications from the stock GTs....


[/align]

I'd rather buy the 94 Corvette with the LT1, stuff the rest, and leave parallels on every street. 165mph out of the box is quite impressive.

Ohya, I did that! [sm=burnout.gif]

Yeah, thats why the discontinued the Camaro, at one point for the cost and the power it had the same numbers as Corvette, only im thinkin the corvette is lighter.

ive noticed that when ford makes a supercar they compete with alot higher competition
the new zo6 or viper comes out and they compete with eachother and with whatever cobra is out
but in the instance of the ford gt it was put up against the ferraris, lambos, porsches etc

another thing ive noticed is that ford is more "worldly"
example
best selling car in britain? ford mondeo (its in casino royale)
its got a huge market share in europe, in america we have vtec as our import tuner
in europe they have cosworth
the escort cosworth would keep up pretty well with the civic type r
personally i think ford should start bringin some of those cars over here
heres the uks lineup http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/all_cars/-/-/-/-/-/-

namely the focus convertible, the mondeo, the ranger 4 door, and maybe the fusion

and as for chevy... well, atleast they have nascar
http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/models-and-prices/models-and-prices-overview.html

nothin too great that should be brought over

Opps!

Ford may be thriving over in Europe but thats only because they are able to put cars together inexpensively, quicklyand at the same time to a poor effect, to sell as many as possible. Chevy im sure has its own slice of european pie but their market is bigger here in America. They sell powerful Trucks and reliable family cars. While at the same time creating one great sports coupe, while Ford produces many.

Full-year sales results released by both GM and Ford last month showed Chevrolet was the best selling brand in 2005 with about 2.6 million vehicles sold, about 21,100 more than Ford. Ford is currently thinking about competing beyond GM because GM is just the tip of the iceberg. Toyota etc. outsell them all. Ford Americas president Mark Fields said there will be 300 nameplates in the U.S. market by the end of the decade, up from 215 in 2002. Showing that Ford isnt competing for reliability they are competing for numbers. GM has also lowered their pricing as of January 2006 asa restructuring plan. The plan also would create more jobs.

Its pretty impressive that even with the sale of the new Mustang, GM is still leading. If you think about it, Ford has several major vehicles. (correct me if im wrong)Mustang, F-150, Explorer/Expedition, Focus. Thats all I can think of.. along with several lines of Minivans and crossovers. GM Chevyhas the Corvette, Silverado, Suburban,Tahoe, soon the Camaro, and other vehicles through its seven subcompanies. These are all vehicles that compete with eachother and still GM has come out on top. Ford at one point asked Chevy to stop saying they were thenumber one american auto maker because it was bad for their business.. Obviously they refused and still use that line in their ads.

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1

ive noticed that when ford makes a supercar they compete with alot higher competition
the new zo6 or viper comes out and they compete with eachother and with whatever cobra is out
but in the instance of the ford gt it was put up against the ferraris, lambos, porsches etc



really? so ford competes with 80k+ cars with a 40k car?

Ford GT is a nice super car, but after its release, i havent seen or heard anything about it...

do you expect to be seeing ford GTs everywhere? Ive seen one once, but its only because a guy who comes to a show thats 1/4 mile form my house is also a super car collector, so i also got to see his S7. I dont think most people on here go around seeing ford GTs very much

Thats not what i ment.. They dont get any media... I see Shelby GT-500s on the street though... But I see alot more Camaros especiallySS models and Corvettes, and according to a previous post the GT-500 is supposedly a car thats to compete with Corvettes and Vipers... i see those but GTs i do not.

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

Thats not what i ment.. They dont get any media... I see Shelby GT-500s on the street though... But I see alot more Camaros especiallySS models and Corvettes, and according to a previous post the GT-500 is supposedly a car thats to compete with Corvettes and Vipers... i see those but GTs i do not.


take that with a huge grain of salt. 40k vs 80k+

Wow this thread is really kickin off, cool! Yeah everything that i've looked into when comparing any kind of the newer mustangs and corvettes (like v6, gt, shelby, and what not) ford competes with the corvette very well with there being a big difference in $$$

On another point. Did you guys know that the Ford Motor Co. lost 12.6 billion in 2006, while G.M. only lost about 4.6 billion? Even though both companies are amongst a "turnaround" in their companies... thats a big difference beteen the 2!

I've seen 3 ford GTs, on red w/ white stripes, one silver with blue stripes and one black with white stripes (I think thos are the combos) and those things are ****ing loud as hell.

don't they cost like 150 grand? someone told me that, but I can't see ford selling too many 100grand+ cars.

ORIGINAL: Kenyon07

ford competes with the corvette very well with there being a big difference in $$$



Ford cant compete withChevysCorvette. Maybe as far as price goes, but in the performance department they dontstand a chance..The Z06 Makes 505hp out of a STOCK7L LS7 Aluminum block, while the Ford MustangGT500 makes 500hp out a 5.4L Iron block, RootsEaton supercharger and air to water intercooler and Aluminum heads. BUT even with all those fancy modifications its still cheaper than a 2008 Z06... Why? Because of how they are built I would imagine it costs a pretty penny to create the body/engine for a corvette than it does a Mustang.

Ford cannot build a car thats faster than a Chevy car of similar stature (ie. Camaro Z28 vs MustangGT, LS2Corvette vs Mustang GT and especially Shelby GT-500 Vs Z06.) without supercharging it. And im not talking early models either, im talking late models, cars that are up and coming and are new to the streets that have better more modern technologies than the old boats of the 60s 70s and early80s.

Well I wasn't saying that Ford was actually better then Chevey Corvettes in the power aspect or head to head... I was only saying that consedering the price difference they do ok

ORIGINAL: eaglecatcher

I've seen 3 ford GTs, on red w/ white stripes, one silver with blue stripes and one black with white stripes (I think thos are the combos) and those things are ****ing loud as hell.

don't they cost like 150 grand? someone told me that, but I can't see ford selling too many 100grand+ cars.



lol they werent plannin on makin too many
it was a limited edition car made to celebrate fords 100th bday

and for god sakes the mustang was never supposed to compete with the corvette, people always get it twisted that way
the thunderbird was supposed to go up against the vette but it failed miserably and went from a 2 seater to a 4 seater coupe
the vette has 2 seats while the stang has 4 (even though we all know the back seats are useless for people)

and i agree with you ford cannot build a car to compete with chevy, because ford doesnt charge that damn much lol

and this may piss some people off but i hate the gt500, how many horses is it putting to the wheels? how many horses was the terminator cobra putting to the wheels? i was expecting a hell of alot more from a 5.4

and for my final rebuttle of the night
ford turned a profit this year
something gm and its many dying brands have yet to do
the only brands/people gm seems to care about is chevy, cadillac and rappers
i mean you can only push that tired old trailblazer platform for so long until it becomes outdated and old

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1

and for my final rebuttle of the night
ford turned a profit this year
something gm and its many dying brands have yet to do
the only brands/people gm seems to care about is chevy, cadillac and rappers
i mean you can only push that tired old trailblazer platform for so long until it becomes outdated and old


made a profit, where you gettin that info?

Yeah? Ford loses money on all their sales basically. GM is the one pumping out new model vehicles left and right... Tahoe, Suburban Silverado SS, soon the Camaro, Monte Carlo redesign, Malibu Maxx Trans Am/Firebird GTO... I think Fords in for a rough time until they redesign the Thunderbird again... then were screwed... :eek:

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1

ORIGINAL: eaglecatcher

I've seen 3 ford GTs, on red w/ white stripes, one silver with blue stripes and one black with white stripes (I think thos are the combos) and those things are ****ing loud as hell.

don't they cost like 150 grand? someone told me that, but I can't see ford selling too many 100grand+ cars.



lol they werent plannin on makin too many
it was a limited edition car made to celebrate fords 100th bday

and for god sakes the mustang was never supposed to compete with the corvette, people always get it twisted that way
the thunderbird was supposed to go up against the vette but it failed miserably and went from a 2 seater to a 4 seater coupe
the vette has 2 seats while the stang has 4 (even though we all know the back seats are useless for people)

and i agree with you ford cannot build a car to compete with chevy, because ford doesnt charge that damn much lol

and this may piss some people off but i hate the gt500, how many horses is it putting to the wheels? how many horses was the terminator cobra putting to the wheels? i was expecting a hell of alot more from a 5.4



that's because the terminator was severely underrated from the factory. the GT500 dynos at exactly where it should for having 500BHP. alls it takes is a pulley swap, intake and tune to put you right around the 500RWHP mark. even though ford made a pulley swap more of a pain.

ORIGINAL: Kenyon07

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1

and for my final rebuttle of the night
ford turned a profit this year
something gm and its many dying brands have yet to do
the only brands/people gm seems to care about is chevy, cadillac and rappers
i mean you can only push that tired old trailblazer platform for so long until it becomes outdated and old


made a profit, where you gettin that info?


the news, http://www.rttnews.com/sp/todaystop.asp?date=07/26/2007&item=42&vid=0
you should watch it some time

and how is gm pumping out new vehicle design left and right?
is chevy left and cadillac right?
because from what ive seen oldsmobile is as good as dead, buick is barely surviving with their new lacrosse and pontiacs are just rebadges chevys now and i wont mention the toyota matrix clone also known as the vibe

Ok... so you found a news letter saying they gained "alittle" profit... after losing so much due to the sale of Astin Martin..

Think of it this way. GM is introducing new cars left and right. The Camaro, Monte Carlo, they just came out with the Silverado SS. The GTO is scheduled for a facelift and finally the Trans Am/Firebird. What does Ford have to offer? The Mustang, a Mustang with fancy decals and yes.... another mustang... They had it made earlier because no one else had areal retrocar on the market... other than VW, The T-Bird and the Charger.. all of which werent apeasing to many consumers... well the Charger was but thats just kuz its a powerful sedan. GM is coming in and taking over.. Ford can sell all the family cars it wants, but it wont sell as many family cars as GM and it definatly wont sell more mustangs than Camaros/Monte Carlos, Corvettes, GTOs or Solstices or.. well the list goes on... Ford doesnt have chance in the future.. The only possible trick they could have up their sleeve would be a desperate one.. and thats a reintro of the Cougar... aka.. a redesigned Mustang with some cosmetic alterations.

a newsletter? try the evening news
am i the only one who watches the news? this is the first time in two years fords been able to turn a profit
hell gm just got its internal affairs in order such as their employee pension plans etc and are expected to get a profit next year
and how is $750 million a little profit?


none of those cars is gonna help gm
do you want to know the cars that have single handedly beaten the american auto industry into a less than 50% market ?
camry
accord
altima

performance is a luxury thing for a car company not a money maker
when nissan almost went under they revamped their whole line up and once they had climbed out of their death spiral they unveiled the 350z

gm needs to revamp ALL the brands and then release the camaro, not just caddy and chevy

Dude... That was a newsletter saying how ford barely turned a profit.. GM is still above ford and why are you brining asian automakers into an arguement about Ford Vs Chevy (i know its vs others too but they were pretty much taken out awhile back) Think about it chief, The mustang is a dime a dozen and they came out 2 years ago.... They are just as common on the road today as any Camry or Accord.... People will get tired of em and look for whats next in the horsepower craze and GM will bring them what they want. Saying GM needs to revamp is rediculous compared to what Ford needs to do. They need to build their performance group with more than just the Mustang and some SVT Focuses and a rare and rather slow "Supercar" (500 horses for a supercar is borderline slow with modern tech.. especially with forced induction. Hell the Corvette Z06 is faster without forced induction..) Ford has been offering the same old tired cars for ever... Yeah they introduced some new crossovers and compact SUVs and some sedans through their lines but they havent brought anything (other than the mustang) into the performance world thats been noteable... Chevys got its entire Corvette Racing line, its SS line and on top of that its got the Cadillac series and Hummer series... They have nothing to fear from Ford...... Im pretty sure no one does. Argue all you want but ford is goin down hill fast... because they have nothing new that appeals to the consumers like corvette, camaro and soon its line of high powered trucks.

ford gt has 550 hp and will eat the vette in a line and on a course

your still ignoring the rest of gm
name somthing buicks doin
how bout oldsmobile?
maybe a new 442?
or is gm just gonna let those two die?

lol i also like how youve reduced gm to hummer chevy and cadillac

and you also seem to know nothing about how much buisness gm does or how low its profit margin is
in case you havnt heard gm shouldnt fear ford they should fear this guy
http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/texas/photogallery.html
president of toyota, hes beating ford and gm sales and is steadily growing

and btw performance isnt everything
you have nothing for the family
oh but wait according to you a family of four will be able to use a vette or a camaro as a family car!

I like how you brought Toyota into a conversation obviously about Ford Vs GM.. I dont give a **** about toyota.. i know they will rule the world one day...

Also, GM has more successful cars through out their companies than Ford does.. Yeah Merc has the Expedition and the Mariner and the Escape.. but who doesnt have SUV and compact SUVs.. Same with Sedans.... See Ford can put out as manynewand stylish sedans as they want... and IF.. for someodd reason they happen to sell more.. its because all theGM sedans out there are lasting sooo long people dont have to go out and buy new cars.

You can argue about family cars all day.. I dont care... I dont feel like arguing aboutfamily cars.. because i dont careabout em... GM has more sedans through out their lines than Ford does or will have...

All i care about is performance...to be honest.. Chevys got alot more thanFord... you cant aruge with that.. As for the GT40.. it pushes out 500+ horsepower WITH performance upgrades, mainly forced induction.. a Corvette Z06 puts 500 on the engine.. if you were to throw a supercharger on a Z06 with the same compression... the GT40 would be eating dirt all day long. If all it takes is 500 horses to make a car a "super" car... then there must be alot of supercars out there.. What kind of domestic made car pushes out more horsepower than torque anyway.. the GTs have no push..

So finally, lets agree to disagree, obviously your a die hard Ford guy kuz your being ignorant of basically all themainpoints ive made and your only going for the smaller points. I cant change your opinion and your not gonna listen to me if you dont want to so arguing with you is pointless... I know what the real story is.. but you can believe whatever you want.. it is after all America and not Asia.. yet..

Yes! Two ignorant folk arguing aboot cars!

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1
oh but wait according to you a family of four will be able to use a vette or a camaro as a family car!


actually you can put 4 people ina camaro.....Ive had 7+me=8 lol. tight squeeze.[8D]

ok were going on pure performance then?
ford owns jaguar
ford owns mazda
and then ford have the ford racing line

let see...mazda speed series
mazda rx8
the jaguar xk
the mustang in all its forms (ill throw in saleen, roush etc just for the hell of it)
yup, i think ive got you matched for performance in a broader view

the mazdas will eat the cobalt
the jag eats anything caddy could make
and ford is just a tad bit underpowered compared the the vette and the imaginary camaro (you know as well as i do the concept car is nothing like its showroom version)

Wow.. Ok. You shoulda left it at agree to disagree dude. First of all mazdas may be faster than the Cobalt.. but a Corvette isnt a TAD bit faster... its got a flippin stock engine with 500hp lets see a Ford... Mazda.. Jaguar.. Do that... And itdoesnt matter if the Camaro is "just a show room car"... IT will still have abigger more powerful engine than some crappy 4.6L.Why are you turning into such an asshole over an arguement about cars? Didnt mean to insult your beloved Ford.. but honestly their not doin to hot.. if you cant live with that fine...

But can you just agree to disagree for pete sakes.. you and i both know this will go on forever because both companies have their ups and downs.

ORIGINAL: Clif Brohn

Yes! Two ignorant folk arguing aboot cars!


I know, look what I started lol :D

How am I ignorant? Hes the one arguing that Ford turned a profit and are faster than Chevys...

To finalize my thoughts, GM has plenty of family cars. All the automakers have family cars. its not hard to put a family car together.. no one really is gonna care how a compact suv looks... you see one youve seen em all.. The reason i stress performance is because it varies from maker to maker. and Ford VS Chevy (not any subcompanies) Chevy blows Fords doors off... If you want to keep up the family arguement, and the other company arguement. Buick and Olds are both big family dealers.. Mercury and Lincoln are too.. but your argument that Buick and olds havent done anything lately... what has lincoln and mercury done? I dont see any Cougars comin back with any considerable power. All Ford has to bank on is theMustang. Honestly Mazda is probably doing better on sales than Ford itself is..

GM covers all of your arguments, plenty of family cars, plenty of domestic performance and plenty of work vehicles. Ford meanwhile has satisfactory performance... Their "Supercar" pushes alil more horses than a Corvette Z06.

Both have their pluses and minuses.

The GM performance argument blows on asshole because the only things they sell right now that performs is the Corvette and both performance Cadillacs. SS Cobalt is slower than my weak-sauce mustang, even the one without an engine. An S197 V6 mustang will run a S/C'ed Cobalt, the Tahoe/Silverado/SS trucks are all slow and the only reason GM is getting away with it is because they are cheaper than the SRT-10 Rams and Ford hasnt built the new Lightning yet. Monte Carlo SS, any FWD V8 powered car for that fact is just a f*cking waste of time and aluminium. CTS-V is nice but slower than SRT-8, also more expensive. But I dont recall hearing any stories of SRT-8s killing themselves through normal driving practices....Ford sells excellent trucks, not only is the new F150 equipped with the strongest chasis in a half ton truck, Saleen and Roush have their own ass kicking supercharged versions that can be bought through Ford. Ford also sells the truck with the most weight and towing capacity, not to mention the fact that they are just sick. Ford GT was so fast the DOT shut it's production down......don't see whats so glamorous about GM.

The reason i said ignorant is you left out a good deal of Ford's aftermarket performance partners that build and sell FAST mustangs and F150s through Ford with factory warranties. Companies such as Roush, Saleen, Shelby, and Steeda. And for what it's worth, a $60,000 Steeda Q650 mustang is only a few tenths slower than the best recorded ET in a an LS7 powered corvette, and almost pulls as many g's on a skidpad.

Do any of those companies sell a mustang with over 500 horses WITHOUT a charger? No... And the f150s dont have the strongest chassis and most towing.. The Toyotas do.. everyone seem to like to bring all these outside cars into the argument so there.. I never said anything about Dodge.. Dodge is nice and reliable my dad had a dodge forever. You can argue all you want that Fords out perform and out sell chevy, but we both know thats a lie. You can take your ford loyalist and shove it... I was once one of those guy who said Ford is god.. but then i opened my eyes to wats out there.. I can pick and chose what kind of cars i wuold get in each class. I wouldnt mind getting a Fusion sedan over a malibu But id rather have a Silverado over a F-150.. Also id rather get a Corvette/Camaro over a Mustang.. because they may have upped the power in the S197s but those weigh alot. I can see a Cobalt SS walking a S197 V6... only because of its weight, and how its built.. efficiently.. Just watch and see what happened to Ford. They MIGHT bring back the Lightening and it MIGHT help em out.. but their sinking.. just like rest of the Domestics.. but right now in the "horsepower craze" Ford still doesnt ahve anything close to what chevy has or will have.. I dont see Ford developing a LS7 type engine that will put some stock power to the wheels rather than compressing the hell outta their 4.6s. It might also help if ford build a block out of aluminum.. they would become more efficient and lighter... because weight REALLY does matter... Everyone here seems to think that horsepower is all you need.. but inreality a 500 horse block of iron will be donminated by a 300 horse car that weighs alot less. its the reason why so many foreign companies win soo many performance awards and competitions.. they understand weight to power and efficiency.. something ford obviousl hasnt grasped...

Oh yeah and Ford just recalled 3.6 Million cars due to poorly manufactured parts and in january 2005 they recalled 6 million due to electrical fires.. There goes any profit they made..

yea ford addss/c

but chevy has a 5.7


imagine if ford dropped in a 5.4 into every v8 mustang

Stallion's gone off his rocker. Not only did he manage to misread a simply constructed sentence(even if you believe the F150 doesnt have the strongest half ton chasis on the market, there ISNT a non-commercial truck that will out-tow, out haul, or out-crush smaller vehicles in comparison to the F450). The reason Ford uses cast iron blocks in their FI cars is because unless the aluminium block is treated to multiple castings, like the Ford GT's all aluminium, 660hp 5.4L SBF; then all of the heat would rise through the block and into the supercharger....exactly where you dont want it. Only reason the Cobra/GT500/Lightnings have iron blocks, because they are stronger for the price of a block and reduce heat sink.

And not exactly to my surprise, the ignorance keeps flowing! An S197 V6 coupe, 5 spd, is a 3200lbs car with options. That aint exactly heavy. Not only that, the only "LS7" type engines you will find from Ford are in Ford's performance catalogs. Ford uses FI so much because it is BETTER. Period. You cant deny this at all. FI takes to mods better, which means it's easier to make an FI faster for less money. Ford wants that. Not only that, using FI makes hp and tq easier and with better powerbands, it does it more effeciently(since you've been throwing this word around so much) in the simple fact that making 500hp on motor requires cubic inches and high compression ratios, whereas using a supercharger or turbo doesnt. Using a supercharger allows for the use of smaller engines that rev easier and utilize lower compression ratios. Lower compression ratios make engines last longer. Supercharging an engine to make hp even makes the cost per unit lower. Sorry Ford builds better performance V8s than Chevrolet. Thats just the way things are. Ford does understand these things that Chevrolet has implemented in three automobiles. They also understand that luxury sells cars as well. Which is the bulk of the GT500's portly weight, all the extra goodies. I find it laughable that you are preaching about Chevrolet's weight, effeciency, and power when it takes GM 5.3L to make 300hp, the majority of the performance cars you are preaching about are large, heavy SUVs and pickups, with a coblt throne in for good measure.

Ok... believe what you will. But if your putting out 500 horses without f/i.. think about how much you can put out with an LS7 and FI... but whatever believe what you will. She wanted to hear both sides and you guys only want to tell her one side. thats cool, its a ford mustangforum i understand.

I dont want to tell her anything, thats why i waited until this thread got some people fired up. Thats when I strike. You just need to realise that Ford HAS made 500+hp N/A engines, they just seem to prefer FI. Which isnt bad, in actuallity it's quite unique for today's American sports vehicles. I also suggest you take a peek at Ford's FRPP crate engines if you think the blue oval cant make anything with some jones that doesnt have a supercharger strapped onto it.

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

Ok... believe what you will. But if your putting out 500 horses without f/i.. think about how much you can put out with an LS7 and FI... but whatever believe what you will. She wanted to hear both sides and you guys only want to tell her one side. thats cool, its a ford mustangforum i understand.


Hey wait a second.. Who's she? [sm=WTFsgign.gif]

And about your recalls about Ford.. Chevy also had some recalls ;).

lol horsepower craze
i thought we were in the hybrid craze and gas was starting to get expensive
but im done

clif, you sir are a god
i hope to know as much as you
but seriously i know some ****

i dont think ford is god, i love ford dearly and ill push my mustang before i drive my friends eclipse but i admit ford could take some lessons from toyota and honda
namely in the resale and mpg department

Clif, I realize ford has some nice big CRATE engines... I never said they werent able to create those, their just not able to afford putting them into the cars they sell.. Because they dont make very much money...

Sorry Kenyon.. for some reason i kept thinking you were a female.. ive got a friend whos last name is Kenyon.. and we all call her Kenyon..

Spoke... you seriously just need to stop... You do realize that Ford has tons of hybrids throughout their companiesalong with 4cyls and other high mpg vehicles right?I give ford that, they can make cheap little engines and hybrids.

You can all argueall you want,GM is still the number 1Domestic Auto group andtheir performance is still dominant... They may not have many parts companies or whatever you said.... But thats because their cars come fast off the line.. without F/I..

Their trucks aredurable and have great torque numbers (The SilveradoSS isnt slow for a truck thats ment to tow stuff.. unlikeThe "Imaginary" Lightening.) The Corvette is the only LS7 engine i know of in any GM cars. The rest use LS2s soon to be LS3s.. Ford has been using the same old4.6L since the early90s.. AtleastGM is on topof theirgame and constantly leading the way for Domestic automakers.. Even in the past when Chevy had the Corvette, fords Thunderbird wasnt much competion. The Cougar and hte Mustang werentany competitionfor the Camaro.. Or the Chevelle, or the Nova or the Monte Carlo... basically.. thoughout the ages the battle of the Domestic V8s has gone to Chevy because they build em big and can afford to sell em that way too...

Believe what you guys will. Say what you will.. I still love Ford and their truck designs and Mustang designs but i also like some GM cars and what they have to offer. However i still believe and will always believe that GM does performance better than Ford. Ford may have more performance groups.. but technically they arent ford.. (ie: Saleen, which isnt just based around Mustangs, used theSaleen Extremein the transformer movie because Ford didnt want to sell them any cars that would be featured as the bad guy.. Saleen also put together the 2009 Camaro in the movie using the Chassis of a new GTO.)

He's right guys......Chevrolet is actually the Greek word for God.....

What we have here is a fanboy One. that cant admit than an LS2 and some SS badging doesnt make a 6,000lbs vehicle FAST. You dont like forced induction, too bad, just means more for me. Hell, I'm even building a 466ci Fox right now and love pushrods to death. But modular power is where it's at. If Ford ever ventured back into the 400ci+ range like Chevrolet with one of their s/c'ed engines, that SOB would be powering space shuttles, not mustangs and F150s

But, i cant change your mind, you've got it set on some ridiculous vision of GM doing something right short of the three performance cars they have that are actually fast.

lol the mustang set the world record for best selling car
its not the fastest car in the world and yes theres alot of camaros thatll kill it but sales wise it cant be beat

its the only thing other than the f series keeping ford alive
but i think weve kinda aleinated ourselves here
we shouldnt be fighting domestic against domestic
we should be fighting domestic superiority against import inferiority
weather its a 4.6 or the 505 hp zo6 its still an v8 and not one of those pussy ass 1.8 liter vtec abominations
we share a common ground, so lets stop arguing... or we could start bashing dodge or somthing i dunno

Spoke youve got a point. But you cant really compare a 500+ horse engine (F/I or not) to a dinky little 4 banger lol....

and Cliff, dont be so sore in the ass kuz GM is number one in the domestic autogroup and Ford isnt.. You cant get so upset about Ford not being the best.. your gonna get alot of it.... mainly because right now ford is struggling. Like Spoke said, twovehicle linesare keeping it alive.. But its ok your a Fordloyalist and i respect that, even if it means you have a blindeye to anything else and refuse to listen... I agree with spoke tho, bothhave their pluses and minuses and at least their not powered by V-Tec.

ORIGINAL: spoke2go1

lol the mustang set the world record for best selling car
its not the fastest car in the world and yes theres alot of camaros thatll kill it but sales wise it cant be beat

its the only thing other than the f series keeping ford alive
but i think weve kinda aleinated ourselves here
we shouldnt be fighting domestic against domestic
we should be fighting domestic superiority against import inferiority
weather its a 4.6 or the 505 hp zo6 its still an v8 and not one of those pussy ass 1.8 liter vtec abominations
we share a common ground, so lets stop arguing... or we could start bashing dodge or somthing i dunno



Actually the most sold/bought car in the world since the early 60's or 70's has been the Volkswagen Beetle bitches. [8D]

btw, what I miss on these 3 pages, even one post is too long to read. :D

Well, basically Ford VS GM which is best selling and which is better making power. But weve kinda agreed.. well me and Spoke have.. that they both have ups and downs and they are better than a honda so whats there to argue about.

everyone just stop a minute......imagine this.......a dolphin in a bar rapping with lil richie

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

ORIGINAL: Kenyon07

ford competes with the corvette very well with there being a big difference in $$$



Ford cant compete withChevysCorvette. Maybe as far as price goes, but in the performance department they dontstand a chance..The Z06 Makes 505hp out of a STOCK7L LS7 Aluminum block, while the Ford MustangGT500 makes 500hp out a 5.4L Iron block, RootsEaton supercharger and air to water intercooler and Aluminum heads. BUT even with all those fancy modifications its still cheaper than a 2008 Z06... Why? Because of how they are built I would imagine it costs a pretty penny to create the body/engine for a corvette than it does a Mustang.

Ford cannot build a car thats faster than a Chevy car of similar stature (ie. Camaro Z28 vs MustangGT, LS2Corvette vs Mustang GT and especially Shelby GT-500 Vs Z06.) without supercharging it. And im not talking early models either, im talking late models, cars that are up and coming and are new to the streets that have better more modern technologies than the old boats of the 60s 70s and early80s.


I didn't read the rest of the thread after this post, but I just had to say something.

Stallion, some of the things you say sometimes makes me seriously question your mental capabilities. Ford can easily build a car that's faster than their GM counterparts without a supercharger. Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor.

And the reason they don't make cars to compete power wise is price. The whole idea behind the Mustang was cheap, affordable performance. They're fun cars to drive, they get plenty of looks, and they don't put a dent in your bank account. That's the reason they stopped making the F bodies. Sure, the LS1's were quicker than a same year GT Mustang, but they were also considerably more expensive. That's why they were faster. If a new 2002 Mustang GT was the same price as a 2002 LS1 Camaro/Trans-Am, you bet your bippy it'd have well over 300hp.

Also, Ford can't compete with the Vette cause Ford doesn't make a car to compete with the Vette. The Vette isn't a muscle car. The vert is actually considered a roadster. But the Mustang is a pony car, which the Vette is not. The Ford GT is a supercar, which the Vette is not. Ford simply doesn't have a sports car in the $60-70k range like the Corvette is (unless you want to try and compare the GT500 to the Vette, but it's not really the same thing like Mustang and Camaro are).

when you look at it, a regular c6 vette IS more competition for the GT500. both start at 40k. you can get a base c6 vette for a smidgen under 40k. comparing those 2 cars together that are more in each other's price league, the GT500 doesn't look too bad. assuming you can get a GT500 at MSRP.

ORIGINAL: nanaki

when you look at it, a regular c6 vette IS more competition for the GT500. both start at 40k. you can get a base c6 vette for a smidgen under 40k. comparing those 2 cars together that are more in each other's price league, the GT500 doesn't look too bad. assuming you can get a GT500 at MSRP.



Yeah, but that's base Vette versus top of the line Mustang.

Ok, Xemeth. First off all arent all you cant compare a Cobra to a Z28 thats like comparing a GT to a Cobra. But your right, even the 2000 SS had only320 horsepower. Thats ONE car and they produced a limited amount of them because, admit it, they couldnt afford to continue to create it besids it cost almost $55,000.. When the 2009 Z28 Camaro comes out its supposed to have from what Ive heard an LS3 with close to 400 horses.. How much will the 2009 Mustang have?

The C6 may be the base but it runs 425 horses, N/A.Ill give you the speech i give everyone who thinks horsepower is all that matters. The C6 weighs 3245 (the Z06 3130 btw) and the GT500 weights 3920. Now thats considerable because you can have aheavy carwith 500 horses against a 400 horsepower lighter carand the lighter will blow the doors off the heavier.

I think the only reason you guys figure ive "gont mental" is because im denying what you think you know about the Ford performance.. Dont get me wrong like i said i still love some of the stuffFord has, they have fun cars that are fun to drive and fun to play with.But GM is just alittle bit ahead.I mean honestly.. we can continue arguing.. especially if you want to pit Cobras against Z28s... Apples and Oranges.. but ok.

400 hp eh?
how much it gonna cost?

Mopar or GM wont be able to catch up with Ford. They've had too much time with actual sales figures and studies on the market, tuners have the quirks and suspension figured out, soon the hot ticket is gonna be 302ci stroked cammers, the Lightning is coming back, I still believe the GR-1 is coming in 2010 because of recent media usage, and the new mustangs are gonna be too much for the competition to handle. The GTs are gonna be WAY lighter than the Challengers/Camaros and have anywhere from 350-400. New Boss mustangs, the GT500 is still gonna be around, then god knows what else they can do. Imagine a supercharged, or even N/A 5.8L DOHC V8 in a mustang. Or Truck. Or Interceptor.

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

Ok, Xemeth. First off all arent all you cant compare a Cobra to a Z28 thats like comparing a GT to a Cobra. But your right, even the 2000 SS had only320 horsepower. Thats ONE car and they produced a limited amount of them because, admit it, they couldnt afford to continue to create it besids it cost almost $55,000.. When the 2009 Z28 Camaro comes out its supposed to have from what Ive heard an LS3 with close to 400 horses.. How much will the 2009 Mustang have?

The C6 may be the base but it runs 425 horses, N/A.Ill give you the speech i give everyone who thinks horsepower is all that matters. The C6 weighs 3245 (the Z06 3130 btw) and the GT500 weights 3920. Now thats considerable because you can have aheavy carwith 500 horses against a 400 horsepower lighter carand the lighter will blow the doors off the heavier.

I think the only reason you guys figure ive "gont mental" is because im denying what you think you know about the Ford performance.. Dont get me wrong like i said i still love some of the stuffFord has, they have fun cars that are fun to drive and fun to play with.But GM is just alittle bit ahead.I mean honestly.. we can continue arguing.. especially if you want to pit Cobras against Z28s... Apples and Oranges.. but ok.


When did I ever compare a z28 and a Cobra? Oh, right... I didn't.

And GM is a little bit ahead in power. But they're more expensive, hence the reason you get more power. That was my point, something you failed to miss.

And you just added another reason for me to doubt your intelligence. ;)

Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor

What were you using this as? it doesnt have the horsepoewr of a C6 or Z06.. i assumed u ment a Z28... unless this was some sort of justification that Ford can make an engine with more than 350 horses without a blower.. still isnt alot but isnt more than the c6 or z06

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor

What were you using this as? it doesnt have the horsepoewr of a C6 or Z06.. i assumed u ment a Z28... unless this was some sort of justification that Ford can make an engine with more than 350 horses without a blower.. still isnt alot but isnt more than the c6 or z06


It was showing how Ford can make a high output NA motor. I wasn't comparing it to anything.

And I'm done with this arguement. You've shown in the past that you get all pissy and throw a bitch fit when people don't agree with or support you. So I'm not gonna waste any more of my time.

I dont recall getting pissy? But hey, way to turn this from the cars into a personal attack.

First of all i havent thrown a bitch fit (and havent thrown one in a while.. kinda grown outta that faze ;)) but i have argued because some of the arguements around here are onesided... There are people on here who im sure have read this and seen some of the holes in both sides of the arguement but dont want to get into because they are sure it would just end up getting shot down by the Loyalists and Conformists. But its chill, I have no more brand loyality.. Im kinda like the guy in the Wendys commercial who stops kickingthe tree... realized its stupid to swear by one company when there are things that are better AND/OR have something another lacks... Mustangs are stylish and affordable but Camaros have power... and some style..

But fine I wanted to give up awhile ago because basically ford and gm performance are apples and oranges.. their luxury/family classes may both be apples but their performance are worlds apart and are around for different reasons. Honestly, if i wanted to build a cheap drag monster ona low budget id go with mustang, if i didnt have a budget id go Camaro or Corvette. To each his own.

ORIGINAL: xX98StallionXx

I dont recall getting pissy? But hey, way to turn this from the cars into a personal attack.

First of all i havent thrown a bitch fit (and havent thrown one in a while.. kinda grown outta that faze ;)) but i have argued because some of the arguements around here are onesided... There are people on here who im sure have read this and seen some of the holes in both sides of the arguement but dont want to get into because they are sure it would just end up getting shot down by the Loyalists and Conformists. But its chill, I have no more brand loyality.. Im kinda like the guy in the Wendys commercial who stops kickingthe tree... realized its stupid to swear by one company when there are things that are better AND/OR have something another lacks... Mustangs are stylish and affordable but Camaros have power... and some style..

But fine I wanted to give up awhile ago because basically ford and gm performance are apples and oranges.. their luxury/family classes may both be apples but their performance are worlds apart and are around for different reasons. Honestly, if i wanted to build a cheap drag monster ona low budget id go with mustang, if i didnt have a budget id go Camaro or Corvette. To each his own.


That's the dumbest commercial ever. It doesn't make any sense until you've seen it 100 times and then it's just stupid.

So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful? For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.

Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs? You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY. And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days. The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this. All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.

ORIGINAL: Clif Brohn

So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful? For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.

Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs? You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY. And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days. The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this. All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.


Amen.

Wow xX98StallionXx man youve got a snotty overlook on this debate against ford vs chevy.

Ok, lets see.

So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful?
I never said that... When did i say that? I was comparing a stock engine with 500 horses to a heavily modified engine with 500 horses.

For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.
Yeah, for all i know they will either have a LS2 or LS3 BUT youve gotta stop comparing baseline models to special vehicle team cars dude... apples and oranges.. I know their fast, and again i never actually said they were slow.. Either way you cut it we are talking about somereally fast cars. Basically that last sentence screwed over your entire arguement here.. You might aswell have said the GT500 is supercharged and modded out the ass... we all know that a tune, s/c and some bolt ons can wake up a V8 engine tremendoulsy... What kind of affects do you think the same types of mods on a Corvette would be? Im guessing youd have more than 500 horses.

Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs?
I did do myhomework.. alot of my info was researched before I posted it... andbesides what kind of numbers would these cars put down WITHOUT that extra boost, or thatspecial tune or those bolt ons? Because basically, without any special modifications other than materials used, no bolt ons or anything special like that, GM can make substantial numbers, especially out of the Corvette.

You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY.
Never commented on Fords "technology" or engine designs butyou can throw it in there for ****s and giggles.(by the way are you talking about the same technology that gotmillions of cars recalled recently due to electrical failure and fires... I believe so..)

And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days.
Im not getting "butt hurt" (great word choice) Im merely arguing the other side... which undoubtedly would not have a fighting chance with the Loyalist mentality around here. And those rocks that GM are banging together arestillcreating over 500 horses N/A andno special mods/ or bolt ons.

The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this.
I dont need to know about internal combustion to realize that...

All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.
First of all... This little bit totally just set off that your a Ford fanatic/Ford Loyalist and probably very one sided. I want you to find something that says Fords DOHC is better performing than GMs OHV... I want you to find two cars that are in the same class (no more of this baseline vs SVT crap). Also ifallGM has over Ford is displacement and power.... thenall Ford has over GM is affordablilty on most performance vehicles and family vehicles...


Verado:
Wow xX98StallionXx man youve got a snotty overlook on this debate against ford vs chevy

How so? Ive agreed several times that each have their pros and cons... i never attacked anyone or threw one of my apparent infamous "bitch fits". Honestly.. I supported the other side (GM) because I new they wouldnt get properly supported.. Ive said several times that I still love what Ford has, but I am interested in what GM offers just as much.. I said that kinda hoping that the Loyalist army over here would see that and call off the attacks..


I didnt comesaying Ford blew nuts because I dont believe that... I believe that each have their own pros and cons, GMs are powerful but cost too much at times and are mostly reliable, while Fords are affordable, mostly reliable but dont make the most power in the world, but take well to aftermarket parts. I posted to this thread to give GM an arguement.. If i didnt post this would be why Fords better than GM, not the pros and cons of each.

grow up, all of you