ford competes with the corvette very well with there being a big difference in $$$
Ford cant compete with Chevys Corvette. Maybe as far as price goes, but in the performance department they dont stand a chance.. The Z06 Makes 505hp out of a STOCK 7L LS7 Aluminum block, while the Ford Mustang GT500 makes 500hp out a 5.4L Iron block, Roots Eaton supercharger and air to water intercooler and Aluminum heads. BUT even with all those fancy modifications its still cheaper than a 2008 Z06... Why? Because of how they are built I would imagine it costs a pretty penny to create the body/engine for a corvette than it does a Mustang.
Ford cannot build a car thats faster than a Chevy car of similar stature (ie. Camaro Z28 vs Mustang GT, LS2 Corvette vs Mustang GT and especially Shelby GT-500 Vs Z06.) without supercharging it. And im not talking early models either, im talking late models, cars that are up and coming and are new to the streets that have better more modern technologies than the old boats of the 60s 70s and early 80s.
I didn't read the rest of the thread after this post, but I just had to say something.
Stallion, some of the things you say sometimes makes me seriously question your mental capabilities. Ford can easily build a car that's faster than their GM counterparts without a supercharger. Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor.
And the reason they don't make cars to compete power wise is price. The whole idea behind the Mustang was cheap, affordable performance. They're fun cars to drive, they get plenty of looks, and they don't put a dent in your bank account. That's the reason they stopped making the F bodies. Sure, the LS1's were quicker than a same year GT Mustang, but they were also considerably more expensive. That's why they were faster. If a new 2002 Mustang GT was the same price as a 2002 LS1 Camaro/Trans-Am, you bet your bippy it'd have well over 300hp.
Also, Ford can't compete with the Vette cause Ford doesn't make a car to compete with the Vette. The Vette isn't a muscle car. The vert is actually considered a roadster. But the Mustang is a pony car, which the Vette is not. The Ford GT is a supercar, which the Vette is not. Ford simply doesn't have a sports car in the $60-70k range like the Corvette is (unless you want to try and compare the GT500 to the Vette, but it's not really the same thing like Mustang and Camaro are).
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
Computer Geek, how c@n I h3lp u? Posts: 14679
Joined: 8/23/2004 Status: offline
when you look at it, a regular c6 vette IS more competition for the GT500. both start at 40k. you can get a base c6 vette for a smidgen under 40k. comparing those 2 cars together that are more in each other's price league, the GT500 doesn't look too bad. assuming you can get a GT500 at MSRP.
< Message edited by nanaki -- 8/5/2007 7:58:18 AM >
when you look at it, a regular c6 vette IS more competition for the GT500. both start at 40k. you can get a base c6 vette for a smidgen under 40k. comparing those 2 cars together that are more in each other's price league, the GT500 doesn't look too bad. assuming you can get a GT500 at MSRP.
Yeah, but that's base Vette versus top of the line Mustang.
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
Ok, Xemeth. First off all arent all you cant compare a Cobra to a Z28 thats like comparing a GT to a Cobra. But your right, even the 2000 SS had only 320 horsepower. Thats ONE car and they produced a limited amount of them because, admit it, they couldnt afford to continue to create it besids it cost almost $55,000.. When the 2009 Z28 Camaro comes out its supposed to have from what Ive heard an LS3 with close to 400 horses.. How much will the 2009 Mustang have?
The C6 may be the base but it runs 425 horses, N/A. Ill give you the speech i give everyone who thinks horsepower is all that matters. The C6 weighs 3245 (the Z06 3130 btw) and the GT500 weights 3920. Now thats considerable because you can have a heavy car with 500 horses against a 400 horsepower lighter car and the lighter will blow the doors off the heavier.
I think the only reason you guys figure ive "gont mental" is because im denying what you think you know about the Ford performance.. Dont get me wrong like i said i still love some of the stuff Ford has, they have fun cars that are fun to drive and fun to play with. But GM is just alittle bit ahead. I mean honestly.. we can continue arguing.. especially if you want to pit Cobras against Z28s... Apples and Oranges.. but ok.
Team MF Member #885 Posts: 2626
Joined: 12/4/2005 Status: offline
Mopar or GM wont be able to catch up with Ford. They've had too much time with actual sales figures and studies on the market, tuners have the quirks and suspension figured out, soon the hot ticket is gonna be 302ci stroked cammers, the Lightning is coming back, I still believe the GR-1 is coming in 2010 because of recent media usage, and the new mustangs are gonna be too much for the competition to handle. The GTs are gonna be WAY lighter than the Challengers/Camaros and have anywhere from 350-400. New Boss mustangs, the GT500 is still gonna be around, then god knows what else they can do. Imagine a supercharged, or even N/A 5.8L DOHC V8 in a mustang. Or Truck. Or Interceptor.
_____________________________
quote:
Warning: Clif is extremely snide, sarcastic, and a little crazy
Ok, Xemeth. First off all arent all you cant compare a Cobra to a Z28 thats like comparing a GT to a Cobra. But your right, even the 2000 SS had only 320 horsepower. Thats ONE car and they produced a limited amount of them because, admit it, they couldnt afford to continue to create it besids it cost almost $55,000.. When the 2009 Z28 Camaro comes out its supposed to have from what Ive heard an LS3 with close to 400 horses.. How much will the 2009 Mustang have?
The C6 may be the base but it runs 425 horses, N/A. Ill give you the speech i give everyone who thinks horsepower is all that matters. The C6 weighs 3245 (the Z06 3130 btw) and the GT500 weights 3920. Now thats considerable because you can have a heavy car with 500 horses against a 400 horsepower lighter car and the lighter will blow the doors off the heavier.
I think the only reason you guys figure ive "gont mental" is because im denying what you think you know about the Ford performance.. Dont get me wrong like i said i still love some of the stuff Ford has, they have fun cars that are fun to drive and fun to play with. But GM is just alittle bit ahead. I mean honestly.. we can continue arguing.. especially if you want to pit Cobras against Z28s... Apples and Oranges.. but ok.
When did I ever compare a z28 and a Cobra? Oh, right... I didn't.
And GM is a little bit ahead in power. But they're more expensive, hence the reason you get more power. That was my point, something you failed to miss.
And you just added another reason for me to doubt your intelligence.
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor
What were you using this as? it doesnt have the horsepoewr of a C6 or Z06.. i assumed u ment a Z28... unless this was some sort of justification that Ford can make an engine with more than 350 horses without a blower.. still isnt alot but isnt more than the c6 or z06
Look at the 2000 Cobra R. 385 NA HP on a 5.4 4v motor
What were you using this as? it doesnt have the horsepoewr of a C6 or Z06.. i assumed u ment a Z28... unless this was some sort of justification that Ford can make an engine with more than 350 horses without a blower.. still isnt alot but isnt more than the c6 or z06
It was showing how Ford can make a high output NA motor. I wasn't comparing it to anything.
And I'm done with this arguement. You've shown in the past that you get all pissy and throw a bitch fit when people don't agree with or support you. So I'm not gonna waste any more of my time.
< Message edited by Xemeth -- 8/5/2007 1:13:06 PM >
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
I dont recall getting pissy? But hey, way to turn this from the cars into a personal attack.
First of all i havent thrown a bitch fit (and havent thrown one in a while.. kinda grown outta that faze ) but i have argued because some of the arguements around here are onesided... There are people on here who im sure have read this and seen some of the holes in both sides of the arguement but dont want to get into because they are sure it would just end up getting shot down by the Loyalists and Conformists. But its chill, I have no more brand loyality.. Im kinda like the guy in the Wendys commercial who stops kicking the tree... realized its stupid to swear by one company when there are things that are better AND/OR have something another lacks... Mustangs are stylish and affordable but Camaros have power... and some style..
But fine I wanted to give up awhile ago because basically ford and gm performance are apples and oranges.. their luxury/family classes may both be apples but their performance are worlds apart and are around for different reasons. Honestly, if i wanted to build a cheap drag monster on a low budget id go with mustang, if i didnt have a budget id go Camaro or Corvette. To each his own.
< Message edited by xX98StallionXx -- 8/5/2007 2:43:59 PM >
I dont recall getting pissy? But hey, way to turn this from the cars into a personal attack.
First of all i havent thrown a bitch fit (and havent thrown one in a while.. kinda grown outta that faze ) but i have argued because some of the arguements around here are onesided... There are people on here who im sure have read this and seen some of the holes in both sides of the arguement but dont want to get into because they are sure it would just end up getting shot down by the Loyalists and Conformists. But its chill, I have no more brand loyality.. Im kinda like the guy in the Wendys commercial who stops kicking the tree... realized its stupid to swear by one company when there are things that are better AND/OR have something another lacks... Mustangs are stylish and affordable but Camaros have power... and some style..
But fine I wanted to give up awhile ago because basically ford and gm performance are apples and oranges.. their luxury/family classes may both be apples but their performance are worlds apart and are around for different reasons. Honestly, if i wanted to build a cheap drag monster on a low budget id go with mustang, if i didnt have a budget id go Camaro or Corvette. To each his own.
That's the dumbest commercial ever. It doesn't make any sense until you've seen it 100 times and then it's just stupid.
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
Team MF Member #885 Posts: 2626
Joined: 12/4/2005 Status: offline
So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful? For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.
Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs? You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY. And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days. The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this. All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.
So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful? For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.
Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs? You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY. And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days. The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this. All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.
Amen.
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: code3GT
I have never heard of a non-brand name car....would that be like a Fred's Fun Wagon?
So stallion, you're saying that 500hp isnt powerful?
I never said that... When did i say that? I was comparing a stock engine with 500 horses to a heavily modified engine with 500 horses.
quote:
For all you know, the most HP the new Camaro is gonna have is a 400hp LS2. What about the 415hp and 427hp Roush stangs? 550hp 4.6L Saleen Extreme? **** son, SVT got another 40hp out of the GT500's engine with a different TUNE for christ's sake, thats where all the extra hp came from with that car. Spark advance. A new tune, gears, and some FRPP bolt ons. If these cars arent even a LITTLE powerful, i dont know what is.
Yeah, for all i know they will either have a LS2 or LS3 BUT youve gotta stop comparing baseline models to special vehicle team cars dude... apples and oranges.. I know their fast, and again i never actually said they were slow.. Either way you cut it we are talking about some really fast cars. Basically that last sentence screwed over your entire arguement here.. You might aswell have said the GT500 is supercharged and modded out the ass... we all know that a tune, s/c and some bolt ons can wake up a V8 engine tremendoulsy... What kind of affects do you think the same types of mods on a Corvette would be? Im guessing youd have more than 500 horses.
quote:
Please dude, go do some homework on Ford's sh*t, you'll understand. You make it sound like Ford has to run 30lbs of boost through a 3.0L supercharger to make 400hp. You know that Roushchargers dont make more than 5lbs. of boost? The GT500 and the KR only use 8.5lbs?
I did do my homework.. alot of my info was researched before I posted it... and besides what kind of numbers would these cars put down WITHOUT that extra boost, or that special tune or those bolt ons? Because basically, without any special modifications other than materials used, no bolt ons or anything special like that, GM can make substantial numbers, especially out of the Corvette.
quote:
You've got this notient that because Ford uses overhead cams instead of pushrods means that they dont know how to make horsepower, when guess what, ITS CALLED TECHNOLOGY.
Never commented on Fords "technology" or engine designs but you can throw it in there for ****s and giggles. (by the way are you talking about the same technology that got millions of cars recalled recently due to electrical failure and fires... I believe so..)
quote:
And YOU dont need to get all butt-hurt because GM is still banging rocks together back in the pushrod days.
Im not getting "butt hurt" (great word choice) Im merely arguing the other side... which undoubtedly would not have a fighting chance with the Loyalist mentality around here. And those rocks that GM are banging together are still creating over 500 horses N/A and no special mods/ or bolt ons.
quote:
The reason GM sh*t is expensive is because you do reach a limit with two valves. If you knew ANYTHING about internal combustion engines, you would have realized this.
I dont need to know about internal combustion to realize that...
quote:
All GM has over Ford is displacement, and even then, Ford's DOHC mod engines are the sh*t, all GM's OHV engines are is old-tech pushed to the limits. Doesnt them bad, just doesnt make them anywhere near as good as you think they are.
First of all... This little bit totally just set off that your a Ford fanatic/Ford Loyalist and probably very one sided. I want you to find something that says Fords DOHC is better performing than GMs OHV... I want you to find two cars that are in the same class (no more of this baseline vs SVT crap). Also if all GM has over Ford is displacement and power.... then all Ford has over GM is affordablilty on most performance vehicles and family vehicles...
quote:
Verado: Wow xX98StallionXx man youve got a snotty overlook on this debate against ford vs chevy
How so? Ive agreed several times that each have their pros and cons... i never attacked anyone or threw one of my apparent infamous "bitch fits". Honestly.. I supported the other side (GM) because I new they wouldnt get properly supported.. Ive said several times that I still love what Ford has, but I am interested in what GM offers just as much.. I said that kinda hoping that the Loyalist army over here would see that and call off the attacks..
I didnt come saying Ford blew nuts because I dont believe that... I believe that each have their own pros and cons, GMs are powerful but cost too much at times and are mostly reliable, while Fords are affordable, mostly reliable but dont make the most power in the world, but take well to aftermarket parts. I posted to this thread to give GM an arguement.. If i didnt post this would be why Fords better than GM, not the pros and cons of each.
< Message edited by xX98StallionXx -- 8/6/2007 12:41:33 AM >
Printable Version
RE: Ford vs GM vs Others - 
