Am considering adding catyletic (sp?) converters to my 65 but am wondering 2 things:
1. How much will the cats alone cut down on environmentally unfriendly gasses?
2. How much HP can I expect to lose (based on a 350hp engine)?
Things to factor in are that I have dual exhaust w/ headers and flow 40,s and would run two cats. Also I currently don't have a H pipe but would have one installed at same time.
I can't believe the number of responses you got from asking such a question! And why would you ever consider putting cats on a 65. And for DMV purposes it does'nt matter what engine is in the car, it's all based on the model year if I am correct? Don't do it!
It's certainly non-traditional, but I wouldn't go quite that far in putting it down, and certainly not simply because it might not agree with my own personal viewpoint. People mod their cars in all sorts of ways and for all kinds of reasons.
Actually, you have to toss at least a little credit his way, for having something of an environmental conscience along with the implied performance interest (he did mention 350 hp). Hell, I'd be more than happy to get C6-ish performance and pass NJ inspection on the first try even if it did mean that I'd lost a half dozen HP or so.
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Joined: 1/18/2007 From: Las Cruces, NM Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: mat11089
You are kidding right?That is the dumbest most un-mustang enthusiast idea ever and u dont deserver to own that car.
A little harsh Matt??
We all have our ideas on how things should be, and often they are different. No need to get hostile about what someone might want to do with their own car. I have even pondered this myself, but the fact is one clean old car, more or less, ain't going to make a difference, Even all classic cars on the road are just a drop in the bucket, not worth the effort IMO, but that is me.
I think Smother's idea was noble, just impractical. If a person would feel better about owning a classic if it were cleaner, then this is not a bad thing. Even though us car enthusiasts as a group find emission control devices less than ideal, we all benefit from the cleaner air that has resulted from the implementation of the cleaner running cars of the last 20 years or so.
Smothers wanted to spend his own money to have a cleaner running vehicle, none of my money, none of your money, and not even any tax dollars... IMO no reason to declare him unworthy to own a classic.....
< Message edited by JMD -- 8/2/2007 1:33:57 PM >
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66 Coupe I-6 Conversion, 408 Windsor, Tremec TKO 600 Wilwood fronts, SSBC Rears 9" Track Loc.
Posts: 3147
Joined: 1/18/2007 From: Las Cruces, NM Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: jcomp
quote:
ORIGINAL: mat11089
You are kidding right?That is the dumbest most un-mustang enthusiast idea ever and u dont deserver to own that car.
A person with your grammar, spelling, and punctuation abilities shouldn't go around insinuating that other people are dumb.
Looking at way you maul the English language, you don't "deserver" to use it.
Like I said before, I think it's admirable that Smothers wanted to step up and try to fix something he thought was wrong.
Hey,,, watch out with the grammar, spelling and punctuation jabs,,,, I know I suck at all of these.... I just recently found the "spell check function" in the "post message" window, I need it.....
I am about to use it right now as a matter of fact.....
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66 Coupe I-6 Conversion, 408 Windsor, Tremec TKO 600 Wilwood fronts, SSBC Rears 9" Track Loc.
ORIGINAL: JMD Hey,,, watch out with the grammar, spelling and punctuation jabs,,,, I know I suck at all of these.... I just recently found the "spell check function" in the "post message" window, I need it.....
I am about to use it right now as a matter of fact.....
It's not often I play the "Grammar Nazi" card, but calling people dumb or stupid is a big pet peeve of mine. I'm one of the "there's no such thing as a dumb question" kind of people. Besides, flaming the people who ask a newbie question is bad for our hobby.
Of course, now I expect that I'll be corrected every time I make a grammar or spelling mistake. Good thing my browser has a built in spell checker.
Posts: 2051
Joined: 11/9/2006 From: South Shores, CA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB
Jeremy, I'm with you. It's the text message mentality. Jim
I was reading through this thread, got to Jeremy's post and thought it echoed similar sentiments numerously expressed by Jim ... and then I got to his post.
BTW, WTF (text message homage ) is up with text messaging? Is calling and leaving a voicemail really that difficult? The phone company actually charges you more to transmit a few kb of data than it does for a quick call (depending on plan). I just love looking over at the car next to me and seeing some teenybopper or wanna' be buried in the phone, no doubt typing some modern day hieroglyphics.
I didnt call him dumb just thought the idea was.I was extremely tired when i wrote that, so to jab at my english skills doesnt bother me.Actually i am quite capable of proper english...Anyways...the not deserving it was a tease. As better put before its just impratical.
A little tech as to why this would be a difficult task. 1). Catalytic converters work most efficiently at 700*F. While they are insulated, they can still reach exterior temperatures greater than 250*F. This requires fairly close placement to the exhaust manifold. On the early Mustangs the floor boards would have to be modified for proper placement.
2). There is a very narrow stoichometric range that the cat needs to work in. The engine needs to run rich-lean-rich-lean-etc. in order to "stoke" the cat with fuel and then oxygen. Much like adding logs then a billows to a fire pit. In order for this to happen you need some type of EFI. which requires a complete redesign of the fuel system.
Another possibility is to change over from gasoline to LPG. This fuel starts off by burning cleaner. State of tune lasts longer, and engine oil breaks down slower. So your overall environmental footprint is much smaller. And we manufacture our own LP gas in North America (who'd of thunk that!). You can also add a "self powered" catalytic converter which will bring the HC, CO and NOx to almost undetectable levels. As in gasoline powered cars the CO2 level does increase by adding the converter, however there is more H2O output to CO2 in comparison with Gasoline. Has to do with the molecular chain of LPG versus Gasoline. Another advantage to LPG is the 110+ Octane rating. While the BTUs are less than gasoline, if the engine is optimized for the higher Octane number, the actual power output is darned close. The down side is a lower fuel mileage in comparison with gasoline by as much as 15% (no such thing as a free lunch). Something to consider, and much easier to do. Good luck with which ever way you go. I read an article in one of the rags about a guy running a late model 6 cylinder EFI Mustang on LPG. According to the article the car scoots right along. Give us about another 5 years and we are going to have some awesome fuel cells that will dramatically change our options. I viewed one that uses methanol and is used to recharge large industrial batteries. It's pretty neat stuff. In any case, I aplaud your thoughts Smothers. One persons actions can directly affect a large number of people.
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Joined: 12/28/2005 From: North Idaho Status: offline
Awesome info Scott, many ideas to explore. If I had done my homework on the workings of the cat, i'm sure I would have ruled out the idea for all (or some of) the reasons mentioned in this thread and not have started it. If you had answered first I wouldn't have had a reason to check back . I appreciate all the info from those of you who had some to share. I really don't mind the negative responses, just people expressing their thoughts, not much wrong with that (sry for that pm mat lol).
Was interesting from a sociological perspective to see this unfold and turn into a environmental debate (which is not what I intended), and even more interesting to see where many stand in their beliefs. Good stuff.
Now just one more question. Is it possible to replace the top of my 65 with a solar-panel to run the electrical system so I can eliminate the need of a toxic, bad for the environment, battery? I'm going to go make myself a tofu sandwhich, then come back to see if you guys think it's do-able. -Peace out
< Message edited by Smothers -- 8/3/2007 8:37:06 AM >
Printable Version
RE: cats on a classic? - 
I have even pondered this myself, but the fact is one clean old car, more or less, ain't going to make a difference, Even all classic cars on the road are just a drop in the bucket, not worth the effort IMO, but that is me. 
I'm one of the "there's no such thing as a dumb question" kind of people. Besides, flaming the people who ask a newbie question is bad for our hobby. 
I was reading through this thread, got to Jeremy's post and thought it echoed similar sentiments numerously expressed by Jim ... and then I got to his post. 
