EFI 5.0L Swap (Full Version)

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EFI 5.0L Swap


  

jcomp -> EFI 5.0L Swap (7/23/2007 11:38:02 PM)

Details of the project can now be found here:


http://carmutations.com/tiki-index.php?page=69+Mustang+EFI+5.0L+Install


  

67 evil eleanor -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 5:22:34 AM)

Look for "James W" on here, he will be able to help with any specific questions. What kind of ECM you be using? Thats usually the big hang up with an EFI, getting them to run. But once they do, you will be spoiled.


jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 10:05:28 AM)

Yeah, I've read JamesW's site and quite a few others. There's a lot of information out there on this swap which is one of the reasons I'm doing it. I also like how I can just buy some of the conversion parts instead of having to build them.

I'll be using the ecm from the donor car, I haven't looked at it closely to see which specific program code I have. I think the wiring will be the most tedious part of the build, but more time consuming than difficult. I was trained in the military to work on electronics and I spent 8 years calibrating, troubleshooting, and repairing electronic test equipment. I'm hoping I will be able to figure out how to wire this car. I guess we'll see...

Anyway, I've broken my basic plan of attack down to three main areas. The mechanical, plumbing, and electrical. Step one will be to get the engine mounted in the car and handle the driveshaft, throttle, mounts, etc. Step two will be to do the fuel system, cooling system, power steering. Step three will be to wire it all in. It's not a rigid plan, but it's a good way to break this large project into a series of smaller ones.

I'm looking forward to being spoiled. [:D]



OutLaw66stang -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 11:41:29 AM)

Yes, im doing the same with my 66 and i like the idea of moving the dip stick how and were did u learn that and do u have to


gothand -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 12:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OutLaw66stang

Yes, im doing the same with my 66 and i like the idea of moving the dip stick how and were did u learn that and do u have to


It is pretty obvious where to drill once you get in there.  You can see my dipstick peeking out behind my alternator.

[img]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b264/pupntaco/Mustang/DSC_0138.jpg[/img]


66GTKFB -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 12:30:45 PM)

Do you always write notes to yourself - 'ATF Type F'? Have you considered 'Post-it' notes? And can you see the ground thru all that plumbing, belts and other junk? At least it's clean.
Jim


jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 1:24:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OutLaw66stang

Yes, im doing the same with my 66 and i like the idea of moving the dip stick how and were did u learn that and do u have to


Here's JamesW's page on the subject: http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/Engine.htm
Here's another one: http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/16159_engine_aod_transmission_swap/

If the drilling is not something you want to do, Jegs has a kit to take care of the conversion. New oil pan, timing cover, dipstick, etc.

The dipstick should be moved because it needs to go down into the oil pan sump.


OutLaw66stang -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 3:14:31 PM)

OK i see now thanks.


JamesW -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 3:44:08 PM)

You'll like being spoiled.  I drove mine 250 miles last weekend..... average 22.7 mpg.


Soaring -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 4:10:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

Do you always write notes to yourself - 'ATF Type F'? Have you considered 'Post-it' notes? And can you see the ground thru all that plumbing, belts and other junk? At least it's clean.
Jim

That Type F white letters was the first thing my eyes went to when I opened it.  Ya' know when you are getting old when you have CRS disease and have to write notes to yourself in your engine bay. [:D]  Just teasing Jeff.  Keep on truckin' brutha. 


gothand -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 4:56:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 66GTKFB

Do you always write notes to yourself - 'ATF Type F'? Have you considered 'Post-it' notes? And can you see the ground thru all that plumbing, belts and other junk? At least it's clean.
Jim


[:D]  Ha ha, that will be coming off!  The front drive accessories, including the power steering pump, were originally from an '85 GT vert that my father and I built up in the late 80's.  It was his bright idea to write that on there, but being that it was really hidden in the engine bay of an '85, it didn't seem that big of a deal at the time.

Here is as short of an explanation of my current build as quickly and best as I can describe it:
  1. Took a nice, almost new '85 GT vert (loved that car) and swapped in a built 351W, WC T5 tranny, subframes, 8.8" rear, 245 gatorback tires, Kaufmann prepped suspension (does anybody else remember that name from the early Fox body days?)
  2. About 1992, happened upon a straight, partially disassembled '65 A-code fastback for $3000 in need of paint and a driveline and bought it as a project (already had a '65 GT coupe driver).
  3. '85 was getting more and more difficult to smog [:D] and body was showing lots of wear so I pulled the engine and tranny and set off to build a performance prepped fastback (I was only 23 or 24 at the time, single and fresh out of college).
  4. Added a new Currie 9" and a Global West suspension, swapped in 351W and T5, had custom headers and exhaust built and reupholstered the seats.
  5. The economy, specifically home development, hit its worst, most prolonged recession in the L.A. area ... put project on the shelf. [:o]
  6. Economy picks back up, get bit by the Jeep bug, park '65 GT in storage next to the fastback.
  7. Marriage, kids ...
  8. Sold storage facility so the Mustangs have to find new place to hibernate ... my home garage.
  9. Five cars are too many to store at my house so one has to go ... bye bye GT coupe.
  10. Staring at the fastback gets the juices flowing again so the project resumes (last October).
  11. Engine did not age well in 10 years of storage so out it comes for a 302 which fits better in the engine bay.
  12. Bought crate motor and swapped it in and out several times due to a rear main seal leak, ultimately returning it because the builder's fix didn't work. (engine shown in previous pic)
  13. Bought Ford Racing crate motor like I should've in the first place. (no pic)
  14. Motor in, dynotuned, runs like a clock and is very streetable. [:)]
  15. Nearly every part purchased, restored and/or polished and ready for install.
  16. Car blasted, primed, sanded, prepped
  17. Review color spray sample tomorrow (7/25) in anticipation of spray next week.
  18. Get car back, paint and reassemble interior and assemble exterior.
  19. Pour a cold Guiness, forget about the thousands of dollars spent, blood (seven stitches above the eyebrow), sweat and tears (more than I'd care to admit [:D]) and the 15 years it took to finish ... and think about the 'vert I'd like to have. [:D]

This has been an interesting project to say the least.  The finished product will reflect how much a person can change in 15 years and four kids.  What started out as a performance build finishes as an attempt to retain as stock appearance as reasonably possible (exterior looks 100% stock except for slightly lower stance) given the parts that are already in place (suspension, driveline).  Mark my words, if and when I get a 65/66 vert, it will be planned and completed in a more timely, organize manner.  Better yet, I may just purchase one already completed and save some money. [sm=goodidea.gif]


67 evil eleanor -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 5:56:15 PM)

My plan of attack would be to do all the mounting first. I think you will have to fab the engine mounts though, not sure if they have anything out for that. I pretty much built my whole car, then disassembled it for paint. Are you going to loose the shock towers in favor of a Mustang II front? As far as the wiring, if you can read schematics, it should be a breeze. I prompted for an aftermarket ECM. At first, I was very intimidated by the program, but once I learned to turn the screws and twist the distributor on the keyboard, it became fun to mess with. Tune the car without raising the hood. Good luck and have fun. Oh, I did start a file and notebook on the build, just to keep my head on straight.


jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (7/24/2007 8:41:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesW

You'll like being spoiled. I drove mine 250 miles last weekend..... average 22.7 mpg.


I think I'll like that quite a bit. [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: 67 evil eleanor

My plan of attack would be to do all the mounting first. I think you will have to fab the engine mounts though, not sure if they have anything out for that. I pretty much built my whole car, then disassembled it for paint. Are you going to loose the shock towers in favor of a Mustang II front? As far as the wiring, if you can read schematics, it should be a breeze. I prompted for an aftermarket ECM. At first, I was very intimidated by the program, but once I learned to turn the screws and twist the distributor on the keyboard, it became fun to mess with. Tune the car without raising the hood. Good luck and have fun. Oh, I did start a file and notebook on the build, just to keep my head on straight.


I went ahead and bought the Ron Morris AOD crossmember so, in theory, the engine/trans should bolt in with the stock isolators. I came VERY close to ordering a Heidt's Mustang II front suspension for the car but decided not to. I'm not too concerned with the prevailing opinion of "experts" that it isn't an optimum suspension, I think it would be fine in my daily driver. The reason I'm holding off is because I don't want to make the project too big. I'd like to be driving the car next month. It's still on the table, though. I do plan on installing a set of Heidt's subframe connectors before this is all over.

It would be great to be able to tune the engine with a computer. I happen to write software for a living (have a degree in Mathematics/Computer Science) and the fusion of my job and my hobby would be pretty cool. But I want this project to be mostly off-the-shelf parts. When I get around to putting turbos and fuel injection on my Pontiac... It will be exciting. Gotta build a good reliable driver first, though. [:D]

I've been taking a lot of pictures as I go, I might build a website detailing my project. I think I'm going to do a few things differently than some of the other sites I've seen.


jcomp -> Today's Progress (7/24/2007 8:57:22 PM)

Here's another pic of the dipstick on the 5.0:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/89fiveliterenginedipstick3.jpg[/image]

It's got some extra curve in it from being too enthusiastic about tapping it down with the hammer. [8|] But it functions properly, so I'm not going to redo it.


I got the old 351 and trans pulled out today. What a mess. I also pulled off most of the front of the engine. Found a bad connector going to the alternator, broken bolt on the water pump, bad harmonic balancer, rust colored antifreeze, the lower radiator hose spring was entirely rusted and broken in places. The thing was so dirty I stopped halfway through and pressure washed the newly exposed portions of the engine compartment.

Anyway, I drove it this afternoon one last time and here's what it looked like when I started:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangengine2.jpg[/image]

And here's what it looks like now:
[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangnoengine1.jpg[/image]

Time for a shower and maybe a run to get some beer. [8D]


06triplevalve -> RE: Today's Progress (7/28/2007 1:51:58 PM)

This was a fun read. Looks like fun too, then I remember mine is sitting in my driveway without and engine, then it's not so fun looking anymore [:D] The tube installation was my favorite part, looks great. Good luck to you, keep taking those great photos!

Roy


takeoutexodus -> RE: Today's Progress (7/28/2007 2:03:35 PM)

Not to hijack the post , But im am intrigued by EFI ...

can you make the swap to any SBF Engine?

how much gas does it save you ?




jcomp -> RE: Today's Progress (8/2/2007 4:01:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 06triplevalve

This was a fun read. Looks like fun too, then I remember mine is sitting in my driveway without and engine, then it's not so fun looking anymore [:D] The tube installation was my favorite part, looks great. Good luck to you, keep taking those great photos!

Roy



Thanks, Roy. I think the fun part is the assembly because the tear down is so messy. [:D]

takeoutexodus: There is a ton of information out there about this EFI swap, including a Mustangs Plus article on installing the later model EFI on an older engine. Start another thread and I'll give you the link. [:D]


Soaring -> RE: Today's Progress (8/2/2007 4:24:08 PM)

You restomod guys slay me.  You are always looking at ways to make your classic Mustang like a modern car with efi conversion, etc.  If you want a modern car, buy a modern car. 


jcomp -> RE: Today's Progress (8/2/2007 4:39:04 PM)

I've been in the final stages of selling a house I own 200 miles away so I haven't had much time to work on the Mustang. But the house is now sold (what a relief) and I can get back to work. Too bad it's raining right now and I have to do all this work outside. So here's an update. [:)]

I got the old engine and trans torn down and stashed away in four 55 gallon drums. The drums are sealed up and airtight so everything will be ready for me if I decide to make the car original again. Plus everything is being kept together and out of the way. Everything I took off went into a barrel.

The old 351W still had the engine tag under the coil and had the last few digits of the car's VIN stamped onto a pad on the back of the block below the driver's side cylinder head. According to the tag, this engine was code "K211-S".

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginebarrel.jpg[/image]

Here's the pressure washed and painted engine compartment (I took these a few minutes ago in the rain):

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginenbay3.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginenbay2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginenbay1.jpg[/image]

The paint is semi-flat black. The pressure washing removed a lot of the old paint so I had to break out the shake-and-shoot and start fogging. It's not a great job but this isn't a restoration. Not a lot of "resto" in this "restomod". [:D] Oh, and those paint runs are OE. [8D]

I'm really having a hard time resisting the urge to get out the sandblaster and making this project a lot bigger.

Yesterday I found a couple of allen plugs for the thermactor (smog) ports on the back of the 5.0L heads. For the record, they are 5/8-11. Turns out there is a place about a mile from my house that only deals in fasteners. They gave them to me gratis, which I thought was cool. They've been there about 10 years which means I've wasted a lot of time over the last 10 years running around looking for bolts. [8|]

Trick-Flow also sells the plugs and you can buy them through Summit for under $4. My problem with them is that they are about an inch long and hard to thread into the carbon-encrusted port.





jcomp -> RE: Today's Progress (8/3/2007 3:38:15 PM)


[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangengine3.jpg[/image]

The engine/trans is in the car so I could see how everything cleared. I kept the factory 89 Mustang exhaust manifolds to see how they would fit. Here are some pics:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustang89exhaust1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustang89exhaust2.jpg[/image]

There is a tiny bit of clearance on the passenger side but the driver's side is barely touching the steering box. If the manifolds were 1/4 inch narrower on both sides everything would be great.

The motor mounts are pretty well lined up:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginemount1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginemount2.jpg[/image]

There is a TON of room behind the engine:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangenginefirewall1.jpg[/image]

The AOD crossmember fit perfectly:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangtransmount1.JPG[/image]
The passenger side trans mount threads were stripped (the bolt FELL out when I went to remove the old mount) but the bolt was long enough to put a nut on it.



  

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