RE: Today's Progress (Full Version)

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RE: Today's Progress

  

jcomp -> RE: Today's Progress (10/5/2007 8:22:46 AM)

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jcomp -> Some Wiring Stuff (10/7/2007 6:45:51 PM)

Pics of the trunk battery setup...

Here's the overview. The vent is on the left, the ground point is on the right. The ground is a bolt I ran through the floor pan after I wire brushed the metal clean. It is coated with some fancy anti-corrosion compound (vaseline) and I also used the stuff inside all the crimped connections. I crimped all the terminal lug connections with a big honking crimping tool that looks like a pair of bolt cutters. The battery cables are 1ga. And, yes, that's the lid to a can of spray paint that I modified to cover the terminals on the remote battery disconnect. [:D]
[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangtrunkwiring1.jpg[/image]


[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangtrunkwiring2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangtrunkwiring3.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangtrunkwiring4.jpg[/image]

The EEC, starter solenoid, a switched power fuse block, the relay that powers the block, and the in-line fuse for the relay. I built a simple bracket to mount it all and I put in a few extra ground points because I HATE looking for a clean ground point when I'm wiring something new into the car or testing voltages with my DMM. I put a yellow LED indicator light in one of the mounting holes of the fuse block that will light when the block is getting power. When I'm troubleshooting problems I'll be able to tell at a glance what's going on with it.

I flipped the EEC over so the wires would be routed down. I plan on mounting another fuse block (unswitched power), all the relays and some of the other devices for the EFI inside here also. There is still a lot of room. I want to mount as little of the electronics under the hood as possible. I'll be putting some shielding around the heater hoses that are right behind all this, in case they rupture. Maybe I'll replace the underdash rubber heater hoses with some hard copper tubing instead.

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring1.jpg[/image]

It started raining so I had to quit for the day, but here's a terrible picture of the hole I cut for the wiring harness. The hole dimensions are 2.6" X 3", I cut it out with a few applications of a bad-ass hole saw. The brown inside the hole is the original sound deadener. It's too bad I don't have the A/C parts yet, the kit I was looking at routes the heater hoses through the firewall in a different location near the blower motor. I could have cut around the holes and used that space to route the wiring through the firewall.

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring2.jpg[/image]

JamesW -> RE: Some Wiring Stuff (10/7/2007 7:22:45 PM)

Why'd you put the battery on the driver's side?

jcomp -> RE: Some Wiring Stuff (10/7/2007 8:54:05 PM)

Because the passenger's side was full of spare tire. [:D]

In regards to weight distribution (if that is why you ask), I don't think it's going to matter. The spare tire, real jack, and lug wrench are going to weigh at least as much as the battery. And once I get a limited-slip carrier installed, I wonder if it will even matter if the heavier weight is over the passenger rear tire.


jcomp -> RE: Some Wiring Stuff (10/14/2007 11:18:23 PM)

The wiring is progressing... slowly.

All the wires are run that need to go from under the dash to the trunk. Speaker wires, fuel pump power, battery cable, cables for the amplifier, etc. It's a lot of wires.

I've connected power through a fusible link to the original harness (at the light switch) and everything original to the car works except the horn. Not sure if it worked before I started, though. The new starter solenoid is wired to the ignition switch and the neutral safety switch also works fine.

I built a hinged panel to hold some of the electronics:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring7.jpg[/image]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring6.jpg[/image]

The front of the panel has a fuse panel and the 4 relays for the EFI with two spares for future projects. One may end up being needed for the electric cooling fan.
The rear has another fuse panel, the barometric pressure sensor and some more relays for powering accessories or whatever. Each fuse panel is the power source for the relays next to it and the fuse panel's power comes through a fusible link I scavenged out of the donor car harness. I'll probably replace the fusible links with Maxi fuses at some point. Fuses are a lot easier to change on the side of the road than a length of wire. [:)]

It's hard to see but the EVR (which controls vacuum to the EGR) is mounted to the right of everything under the dash.

There is a 10ga wire going from the battery side of the solenoid through a fusible link down to the console to supply power to some 12V power outlets I plan on putting in the ash tray. I'm hoping to fit three outlets in there.

I've made a lot of progress on the EFI wiring. Everything from the firewall forward is done for now but I still have to shorten a lot of wires on the underdash side. I am keeping the VSS and I have routed the two wires for it through the O2 sensor harness and up through the engine harness into the dash. I'll be using the VSS for the cruise control and maybe an aftermarket speedometer.

I made an interesting discovery concerning the speedometer cable. The cable off of the donor car will work with the speedometer on my 69. It clips in without modifications and will also work with the VSS (obviously). The donor cable is pretty trashed, though, it has a few burns in it from resting against the exhaust. I haven't compared the lengths yet but it might be the way to go if I don't end up with a fancy new electronic speedometer.

More to come later. I'd have more pics, but images of wiring aren't really all that exciting or informative. [:D]

Oh, and all that stuff fits just fine inside the dash. Like I mentioned earlier, there is a ton of room in there. I've even left space for A/C when I get it, but the passenger side vent may not have any ducting going to it. Good thing I'll always be in the other seat. [8D]

redhawkk -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/16/2007 4:54:47 PM)

Very interesting project. I did one similar... put a 5.0 from an '88 Mustang into a '67 coupe. Used only the long block. Hung on all the original 289 accesssories. I put an old Carter AFB on it originally and it ran great. It was my commuter for a few years, then I parked it for a few years. Then when I needed a good carb to put on a '73 Stang to sell it, I used the AFB, thinking I would buy a new one later when I put the '67 back on the road.

Dumb move...! Now I'm getting it back on the road again. I bought a new Edelbrock replacement for the Carter, and it never ran right. Seemed to be a design problem. The choke mechanism would bind up on the shaft like the metal was too thin to handle the torque of the spring, and it would bend and jamb.

So I just rebuilt an autolite 4100 carb originally from a '66 convert 289 for it, but am having some trouble getting it tuned right. It runs great, no hesitation or flat spots, BUT has idle problems. Cannot seem to get the idle mixture right. Stand beside the car when idling and it'll burn up your throat and eyes. No smoke, just stink.

I called Pony Carburetors and Jon told me it's running lean. But wouldn't offer any info on how to tweak it, just "send it in"....! Before I go to that expense, I thought I'd try for some brain power on the web... :)

One thing that might be a clue is this.... I CANNOT adjust the idle RPM down low enough. Pull the idle speed screw all the way out, primary and secondary butterflies totally closed (far as I can tell), probably idles minimum of 1000 RPM (don't have tach). Another clue -- to get smooth idle, I need to set the idle screws about 3 turns out instead of the 1.5 turns specified in the rebuild instructions. That's probably due to the excess RPMs. So, somehow seems to be getting too much air.... Haven't been able to find any vaccuum leaks..... Could the PCV valve allow too much air....?

I wonder if the settings in the carb (like float levels, jets, etc) might need to be different from original since the 88 engine has roller cam.

Has anyone here messed with a 4100 on a 5.0.... have any ideas...?

Thanks....!


Hawkins 812 -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/16/2007 6:26:06 PM)

Very interesting jcomp. Ive learned alot ....

Keep up the good work!
-Hawkins

JamesW -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/16/2007 7:44:22 PM)

yep...been there....

[image]http://midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/Motor/Launch%20010.jpg[/image]

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/16/2007 8:31:26 PM)

..

valley firearms -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/16/2007 9:39:16 PM)

This right here is the reason I'll never do the swap. I hate electrical!
quote:

ORIGINAL: jcomp

Hopefully today I soldered the last wire splice in the engine harness. And, man, there were a bunch of them. I spent the better part of yesterday looking for wire terminals (that plug into the computer connector) so I could avoid having to do 20+ wire splices, but I couldn't find them locally. I didn't want to wait for them to show up from an internet order so I just proceeded without them. However, I would suggest that anyone who wants to modify a stock harness to fit their car should buy about 30 of the terminals (fordfuelinjection has them) to save time and also end up with a better harness without so many splices in it.

Here's a picture of the harness as of right now. Tonight I'll spend a few hours verifying the wiring with a schematic and my trusty DMM. Then it will be time to wrap it up and put it in the car. The red wire tie on the engine side of the harness marks the position of the 22K ohm resistor for the TFI circuit.
[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring8.jpg[/image]

Having the entire harness out of the donor car was a big help. I was able to scrounge a lot of wire out of it so that I could keep the harness mostly correctly color coded. Also, all the extra connectors were handy. They come apart easily and I was able to reconfigure some of them for what I needed. Using these connectors I was able to build the harness so that it could be taken out of the car without having to cut any wires.

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring9.jpg[/image]

The green connector goes to the relay/fuse panel. The other two are for wiring that goes to somewhere else on the car like the instrument panel (for the check engine light and tach) or to the fuel pumps under the back of the car.


This is the harness for the oxygen sensors. I've also added the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) connector to it. I am running the two wires for it back through the engine harness using two previously unused pins on the round black 8-pin connector.

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring10.jpg[/image]

Here is the whole system laid out:
[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangwiring11.jpg[/image]

There are still two unterminated wires in the engine harness (lowerish left). One is for the computer keep-alive power (KAPWR) and will go the fuse block by the computer and the other is for the TFI Start signal and will go to the starter solenoid.

Also notice that the harness includes the 2G alternator wiring (covered in big red heat shrink).

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/17/2007 8:29:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: valley firearms
This right here is the reason I'll never do the swap. I hate electrical!


Actually, this has been my favorite part so far. [:D]




This morning I decided to add a power lead for the electric fan to the engine harness, so looks like it's getting unwrapped again today.

The wiring has taken me a lot of time to get worked out and I'm still not finished. I've been taking my time and taking a lot of notes. The way I see it, every extra hour I spend putting it together the right way will save me three hours down the road when it comes to troubleshooting.

I still have the lead on the original harness that connected to the solenoid under the hood. I'm thinking I'll use that and a relay to power the headlights and bypass the resistances of the original headlight circuitry.

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/18/2007 5:09:03 PM)

I've given myself a crash course in spring-lock connectors, trying to figure out how to attach my 3/8" line to the fuel lines on the engine. I went to my favorite junkyard and looked through their entire Ford section and couldn't find a female springlock to 3/8" barb. They were all too small, even on the 5.8L trucks. Of course, there is an article on FFI that says as much but I was hoping it was wrong.

Here is a picture of what $5 will buy in the junkyard spring-lock world:

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangfuellines1.jpg[/image]

A few connector pairs and a spare set of engine mounted fuel lines.

I have a few options, I'm still working on it.

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/18/2007 5:32:15 PM)

Even though I decided not to work on the car today, I threw together the surge tank. Total cost for it was about $7.

It's about the size of a soda can and will fit nicely under the back of the car above the e-brake cable. The hose connections all end nearly flush with the inside of the cap. Two connections at the top; for the lift pump and the return to the tank. Two connections at the bottom; for the feed to the high pressure pump and for the engine return.

Not very fancy or pretty but it will get the job done. Until I make friends with a good welder it will have to do. [:D]

[image]http://www.denverpontiacs.com/miscpics/69mustangsurgetanknew1.jpg[/image]

JamesW -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/18/2007 8:46:31 PM)

Great work Jeremy.... that harness is looking sweet.

One suggestion - hold off wrapping and dressing the wiring harness until after you have installed it.  Just ziptie it into shape and lay over the motor while you get it running.  You may need to troubleshoot the harness.   (ask me how I know)

USMCrebel -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/19/2007 6:27:19 AM)

how do you know?

JohnnyK -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/19/2007 7:04:12 AM)

30 pins for the computer? I had to solder about 6 new connections to the computer or so but thats because I added provisions for mass air and vss and some other things.. why did you need 30?

Also, whats the deal with this 22k resistor? I assume thats going to the distributor, but I didn't take the wrapping off that part of my harness. Anything I have to do with it?

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (10/19/2007 8:25:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnnyK

30 pins for the computer? I had to solder about 6 new connections to the computer or so but thats because I added provisions for mass air and vss and some other things.. why did you need 30?

Also, whats the deal with this 22k resistor? I assume thats going to the distributor, but I didn't take the wrapping off that part of my harness. Anything I have to do with it?



I didn't actually need 30 pins, but having them would have been nice and resulted in a better harness. I had to shorten or splice all but four wires on the ECM connector, and even some of the ones I left alone were still too long. 30 pins might even be to few; there are around 32 connections in my ECM connector. Did you use the aftermarket harness? I rebuilt the donor car harness to work with my car.

If you study the schematics at FFI, you'll see there is a 22K ohm resistor in the IDM wire to the TFI module. I only marked it in my harness in the extremely unlikely event I need to find it in the future. I'm guessing it's there to drop the voltage level of the tach signal to the level the ECM needs or to help protect the IDM input from voltage surges. But don't quote me on that. [:)]

JamesW: That sounds like the voice of experience. [:)] I do know one thing, I'm not going to push that firewall grommet into the opening until I'm sure everything is working. It's going to get some sealer on the backside and the wires are getting a good wrapping with F4 tape. When the hood is opened while it's raining, it pours water down onto the harness and connector.



I still haven't added the fan wire to the harness so part of it needs to come apart again. I'm also going to run some steel brake line through the connector to get the vacuum to and from the EVR.

I did some shopping last night for the fuel system plumbing. Right now I'm leaning towards using AN adapters at the fuel rail and running -6 AN braided stainless down to the bottom front of the shock tower. I'll have the aluminum lines connected to AN bulkheads down there and the hard lines will run back along the inside of the frame and subframe
connector. I'll have the electric inline high pressure pump right next to the surge tank and an inline 10 micron filter immediately after the pump, mounted to the subframe connector.

I've also decided to use braided stainless for the heater hose that runs right behind all the electronics. I still can't believe Ford designed the car that way, with the heater hose running through the firewall and another 12 inches of travel until it gets to the heater core. I wonder how many passengers have had their legs burned in a Mustang by hot coolant over the years. [8|]

Anyway, I've got some more parts to order today. [8D]

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (11/16/2007 9:59:14 PM)

I pulled a tendon in my hand so progress on the Mustang has been stopped for about a month. But here's where I'm at:

Once again, I've changed plans for the surge tank. I couldn't find a good place to mount an inexpensive filter, so the pipe tank had to go.


This bracket will be mounted through the body right behind the fuel tank. After staring at the bottom of the car for hours I decided that there may be some merit in doing it like everyone else. [:)]

[image]http://allhowtoarticles.com/img/wiki_up/69mustangfuelbracket1.jpg[/image]

Here's my version of the fuel filter surge tank:

[image]http://allhowtoarticles.com/img/wiki_up/69mustangsurgetankfinal2.jpg[/image]

The copper pipe is 1/2" OD. I flared the end so it would be a press fit into the threaded tube then sealed it up with JB weld between the copper pipe and the threaded tube just in case. It isn't going to come apart on its own, that's for sure. [:)]

[image]http://allhowtoarticles.com/img/wiki_up/69mustangsurgetankfinal3.jpg[/image]

I'll be replacing the brass T with an AN T fitting. The cost will be higher (but not by much, brass ain't cheap either) but the AN fitting will be more vibration resistant.

The oil filter adapter cost $22, the filter was $13, the AN T fitting is $15, and the 1/2" NPT to -6AN fittings were a total of $12.

My 1983 Chevy K5 diesel uses this sort of surge tank from the factory. It doesn't have the return plumbed into it (doesn't need it) but it does have an elongated pickup tube that allows the injection pump to pull fuel from the lower portion of the secondary spin-on fuel filter.


Also, I'm running -6AN braided stainless hose for pretty much the entire system. Bending hard line with one hand is hard to do. [>:]

JamesW -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (11/17/2007 3:30:42 PM)

For the surge tank, why 2 ins and 2 outs?  I'm assuming your following this basic logic:

[image]http://www.midnightdsigns.com/james/Fuel/Fuel_Diagram.jpg[/image]

The 2 AN fittings are your line in and line out, and the brass T is for your return line?

jcomp -> RE: EFI 5.0L Swap (11/17/2007 4:23:13 PM)

After looking at it today I'll probably move the T fitting to the other side of the filter assembly, but here's how I've got it planned...

I have the engine return, the supply from the lift pump, and the return to the main tank all essentially plumbed into the same point. That oil filter adapter has 2 "in" ports and 2 "out" ports. I've got one of the "out" ports plugged but I could use it if necessary to feed a second high pressure pump. I doubt that will ever happen with this car.

The AN fitting that has the opposite side of the filter adapter plugged is the high pressure pump supply.
The T fitting will have the return fuel going into the side of it, and the port on the T fitting facing up will be return to the tank. The remaining port (the AN fitting on the filter adapter facing the lift pump) will be incoming fuel from the tank.

  

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