RE: EFI 5.0L Swap
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 8/26/2007 6:36:18 PM
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JamesW
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Northernish Eastish Central Texas
Status: offline
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Yeah!!..let's do it... It's almost winter up there, don'tcha know. Perfect time to start this project!
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If you're reading this in English, thank an American Soldier.
JamesW's Website
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 8/26/2007 6:47:40 PM
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19stang66
Posts: 1001
Joined: 2/22/2006
From: SE Minnesota
Status: online
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Ya but I leave for school the 2nd and i'm 3.5 hrs away from home. The only time i would have is the month off for christmas. Even then it wouldnt be much because of trips i already have planned. And I'd really like to learn how to tune a carb'd engine before I learn EFI. Another reason I want to do it is because my older brother has a ton of experience with EFI, he has a 88 GT with quite a few mods. Someday though, you can count on me converting to the darkside.
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Dad's 66 Vert
1966 Coupe Restomod
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 8/26/2007 7:46:16 PM
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Mr. Classic EFI
Posts: 305
Joined: 8/21/2007
From: L A 32548
Status: offline
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Wow, whatta project.
May I point out, that the engine mounts arent the real limiting factor in for & aft movement of the engine. Engine mounts are side to side & up/down.
The tranny mount point has a larger influence. Notch the tranny mount, and slide the engine back,,, ohh maybe 1/2 in, or so??
This is such a cool project I, just had to through something in.
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65 2+2, EFI 5.0, AODE-W, Unisteer Power R&P, & some other stuff too!
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 8/26/2007 8:23:41 PM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
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Thanks for all the encouragement from everyone. It's been hard to keep motivated and maintain a positive attitude while working outside under the blazing sun. To paraphrase old Bones McCoy: Dammit Jim, I'm a computer nerd, not a landscaper! 
The AOD crossmember I'm using is slotted for adjustment so it's not stopping progress. I've got adjustable motor mounts also and they still have some adjustment left. What's stopping the engine from moving back any more is that the oil pan is hitting the crossmember. I suppose I could raise the engine and move it back a little bit more (the oil pan is sloped) but I wonder how high I could go before I start having hood clearance issues with the EFI upper intake.
Anyway, the adjustable motor mounts got me about 1/2" of clearance which is allowing me to fit the big honking electric fan I want. However, in hindsight, the fancy mounts were a waste of money since there are other fans I could be using that are less than 4" thick.
At the very least I can console myself that I did everything reasonably possible to keep the mechanical fan. Also when anyone asks why I didn't keep the donor fan I will be able to expound upon the subject with such depth that they will become bored and regret they asked. 
< Message edited by jcomp -- 9/12/2007 5:45:57 PM >
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/13/2007 8:29:31 PM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
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I haven't done too much to the car in the past few weeks, but here's an update.
I've got my 4 new tires and wheels. The rims are Cragar Soft 8s, 4.25" backspace. The tires are BFG Traction T/As, 225/60/15. The weight difference between the new engine and old engine is so much that the front of the car sits over an inch higher and the new tires look a little small. Once I get the car drivable again, I'll start planning on what I need to do about it. Here's a pic of the front anyway:
Chrome center caps and lug nuts haven't shown up yet. The look is different and I chose these rims because they were $37 each, but I'm liking the plain look they have. Back to basics.
I've also got the radiator and fan mounted (finally). It looks a little unorthodox but it holds the radiator securely and integrates with the shroud mount.
I'll probably do something else for the upper mount down the road, but this is good for now.
This is the general idea for the mounting of the trans cooler and trans filter:
Now that the radiator is mounted, I can move the engine forward some to get the oil pan off the crossmember. About 1/4 inch should do it and I've got the room to spare between the water pump and fan. Once the engine is in its final position I'll measure for the driveshaft and have a local company shorten the old one and install the AOD yoke.
I've got the Performance Automatic AOD shift linkage kit. I called them and they let me know that it will work with the donor mustang TV parts. They've even got a video on their site on how to install the kit. I've decided to wait on putting in the Baumann shift kit until after I've driven the car for a while. I did get a drain plug kit for the transmission pan, though. I'll be putting it in when I do the shift linkage. I hope it doesn't leak like the last one I did.
_____________________________
1969 Mustang Coupe
www.carmutations.com
"Clutching the tools of my trade in my hands: an old box of matches and a gasoline can."
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/20/2007 12:07:29 AM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
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I worked on mounting the trans cooler and filter today. It's still not finished:
_____________________________
1969 Mustang Coupe
www.carmutations.com
"Clutching the tools of my trade in my hands: an old box of matches and a gasoline can."
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/21/2007 1:54:07 PM
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valley firearms
Posts: 1808
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Wasilla, Alaska
Status: offline
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It's funny looking back. I remember asking the question about putting EFI in our classic mustangs. The post was removed and that stirred a bee's nest. That's when I recommended that JamesW be our moderator. Now that the old communist regime has fallen, look at all the great information we are able to talk about. This is a great thread and I have learned quite a bit. Keep this great thread alive.
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/21/2007 8:53:33 PM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
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Yeah, I don't pay those "keep it original" guys much mind. In fact, they helped motivate me to document what I'm doing to help others "ruin" their Mustangs also.
The shifter is connected and functional. The TV cable is connected at the transmission. The driveshaft is installed and the transmission cooler lines are completed.
The AOD shifter linage wasn't exactly a bolt-in affair. I had to bend the new trans linkage and the donor TV linkage for clearance. I also had to cut a few inches off and rebend the linkage rod. The linkage barely touches the body next to the transmission when it's in park. I've also checked out the VSS (in case I need it for the cruise control) and it clears the linkage. Oh, and I also made sure the detents inside the transmission matched the detents of the car's shifter.
I was able to use the donor line to the trans filter, but it isn't exactly pretty. I had bend a piece of to splice in the return line and it's not exactly pretty either.
I wrapped the lines in pieces of hose wherever they were going to rub against something.
Here's the driveshaft, the old exhaust system, one of the subframe connectors, and my Dodge Dakota.
And finally, the car with the new rims and tires. I'm really liking the blacked out look of the wheels.
The car sat level with the 351 but sits high in the front with the 302.
_____________________________
1969 Mustang Coupe
www.carmutations.com
"Clutching the tools of my trade in my hands: an old box of matches and a gasoline can."
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/25/2007 10:35:29 AM
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cxr
Posts: 86
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
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interesting read, thanks for all the information.
it seems like you are now close to finishing, care to share what the price for this for those us interested in doing this topped out at??
im talking to my mechanic brother in law now to see if this is a project he wants to undertake!!!
I have read this thread and James W site extensively and not alot is mentioned about AC or Smog, my 68 does not have AC installed, do you know what i would have to do to get this to work w/ AC?
and some people are environmetally conscience and im not sure if California requires it, but also what would have to be done to run the emissions?
been checkin ebay and craiglist since reading this thread and there might be some good deals on parts cars, AOD or T5 transmission and 5.0 engines. One last question, in a donor car (mid 80s) was used could the rack and pinion or steering box also be transplanted into a classic mustang??
THANKS AGAIN
Chris
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/25/2007 11:53:57 AM
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USMCrebel
Posts: 3211
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: Huntsville, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
Now that the old communist regime has fallen, look at all the great information we are able to talk about. This is a great thread and I have learned quite a bit. Keep this great thread alive.
quote:
Yeah, I don't pay those "keep it original" guys much mind. In fact, they helped motivate me to document what I'm doing to help others "ruin" their Mustangs also.
your the two types of bastards that start that kind **** back up again, anytime you get rid of any type of member you lose info you might have needed or will need. before you start bashing, I am a restomod guy to, but i got along with "the communist regime" quiet well they helped me complete my project, so must not have been that bad.
Good work on the stang though, im impressed with it.
< Message edited by USMCrebel -- 9/25/2007 11:56:39 AM >
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/25/2007 2:16:07 PM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cxr
interesting read, thanks for all the information.
it seems like you are now close to finishing, care to share what the price for this for those us interested in doing this topped out at??
im talking to my mechanic brother in law now to see if this is a project he wants to undertake!!!
I have read this thread and James W site extensively and not alot is mentioned about AC or Smog, my 68 does not have AC installed, do you know what i would have to do to get this to work w/ AC?
and some people are environmetally conscience and im not sure if California requires it, but also what would have to be done to run the emissions?
been checkin ebay and craiglist since reading this thread and there might be some good deals on parts cars, AOD or T5 transmission and 5.0 engines. One last question, in a donor car (mid 80s) was used could the rack and pinion or steering box also be transplanted into a classic mustang??
THANKS AGAIN
Chris
Actually, I think I'm about half done at this point. I still need to do the wiring (what I expect to be the biggest part of the job) and the rest of the fuel system. I'm saving the wiring for last and am presently working on the fuel system.
I took the smog parts off because they provided no fuel economy or performance benefit and would have made the installation more complicated. Extra plumbing is just more work. Plus I'm not sure how effective the system would be without the catalytic converters installed and they definitely were not part of the plan.
After I get the car driving well, I'll start looking seriously at A/C. Around here, the hot weather is done for the year so it will be next spring before I get motivated for A/C again. However, I am considering this system: http://www.classicautoair.com/Mustang6970.asp I'll have to call them and see what they think I should do about the compressor, if I should stick with the donor-style compressor or not.
I haven't figured up a total, but my estimate so far is around $2800. This includes the new set of tires and rims, the donor car (minus what I made from parting it), and the parts I wasted money on (adjustable motor mounts). I'm still going to have to pay a muffler shop to tie the headers into the old exhaust system.
I'm not sure about the donor rack being reused, but I don't think it would be feasible. You might try doing a search of this forum for the specifics. I don't remember any right offhand.
USMCrebel: I appreciate your input. But... If you want to defend Glen's charming personality and tolerant ways, please do so in your own thread and not in mine where he posted a disparaging remark about my project. I'll say no more on the subject and ask that the moderators delete any replies on the subject of 'the old regime'. Let's stay on-topic here.
_____________________________
1969 Mustang Coupe
www.carmutations.com
"Clutching the tools of my trade in my hands: an old box of matches and a gasoline can."
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RE: EFI 5.0L Swap - 9/25/2007 2:33:39 PM
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jcomp
Posts: 289
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
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I did a little work on the surge tank over the weekend... here are a couple of pics:
This is a mockup, the final tank will be an inch or so longer and not have any cardboard parts. I estimate the volume of the tank to be around 60 cubic inches, which is around a liter. I don't know the volume of the fuel pump and lines, so I don't know for sure how much fuel the tank will hold while in operation. I'll be mounting it in the back above the fuel tank. I have room under the hood (where the battery used to be) but decided against it. Not much room, too much heat, nowhere to put the secondary filter. Plus, I plan on installing a centrifugal supercharger at some point and don't want to find out that the surge tank is in the way.
The steel is from an old mailbox post I picked up at the thrift store for $1. I will probably be coating the inside of the tank to prevent rust but I haven't decided what to use yet. The pump and top part are from the donor Mustang. I want the pump/top assembly to be rigid so it will get some bracing. I'm thinking I'll hold the top down with a large washer screwed into the top of the tank, but I'm still working on that part. Oh, and the tank will have two fittings on the side. One for feed from the primary pump and one for return to the tank. The fittings on the top part are for high pressure to the engine and return from the engine.
_____________________________
1969 Mustang Coupe
www.carmutations.com
"Clutching the tools of my trade in my hands: an old box of matches and a gasoline can."
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RE: Today's Progress - 10/2/2007 10:46:13 AM
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cxr
Posts: 86
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
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I almost have my mechanic friend convinced to do this swap..
maybe James W can answer one more question since he is in Cali..
what do we do about California Emissions laws in California?
do we have to add catalytic convertors?
i think i read on JamesW page and this thread that all the smog equipment was removed?
Thanks again for the helpful post
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RE: Today's Progress - 10/2/2007 11:39:23 AM
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cordoba@California
Posts: 107
Joined: 1/3/2006
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This is an Awsome thread i just want to thank the hard work people do so others can learn im sure this will come in handy someday for me!
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RE: Today's Progress - 10/2/2007 12:37:25 PM
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USMCrebel
Posts: 3211
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: Huntsville, AL
Status: offline
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It is a great thread, i will be watching these type of thread mor closely.
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RE: Today's Progress - 10/2/2007 3:59:17 PM
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JamesW
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Northernish Eastish Central Texas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cxr
maybe James W can answer one more question since he is in Cali..
Where did you get that I was in the land of Fruits and Nuts?....
I'm in Texas pardner....
My motor came with all the smog items removed and I had no reason to re-install. The smog setup wouldnt' be difficult, you'd just need to leave the pump, the lines, the canister, etc..and leave all the wires and sensors hooked up. I left AC off my car originally also, but will be going back to reinstall later. there's just one wire in the EFI circuit associated with the A/C...that's the one called WOT, which sends a signal to cut the compressor during wide open throttle condition.
_____________________________
If you're reading this, thank a Teacher.
If you're reading this in English, thank an American Soldier.
JamesW's Website
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RE: Today's Progress - 10/2/2007 7:12:51 PM
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tarafied1
Posts: 413
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
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James,
Could you make this a sticky, lots of good stuff here that could get buried.
Nice work Jcomp. Any idea if there is an AOD that would bolt to a 429/460? I know they might not hold up but I built mine for cruisin' and overdrive would be nice!
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67 Coupe, 429, C6, 9" 4 wheel disc brakes, Eleanor kit
http://www.myspace.com/tarafied1
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2842869
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